1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: I don't like composing or improvising or working out a 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: piece if there's someone in the next room who could 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: technically be hearing me, because I just don't feel like 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: I can be alone with my own mistakes, my own explorations. 5 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: You know, to me, writing a song is as personal 6 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: as like taking a shit, basically, so you don't want 7 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: someone standing in the room going like, hey, it's really 8 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: like in order to have that kind of stream of consciousness, 9 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: any any you know, any note as possible, any vocalization 10 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: as possible, any word as possible. You can't be sort 11 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,480 Speaker 1: of subconsciously performing for an audience. It just doesn't work. 12 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 1: You need to get the audience miles away so that 13 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: you can create in peace. 14 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 2: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 15 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 2: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 16 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,279 Speaker 2: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an 17 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 2: organizational psychologist to the CEO of Inventium, and I'm obsessed 18 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 2: with finding ways to optimize my work. Date on today's show, 19 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 2: I speak to singer, songwriter and all around rockstar Amanda Palmer. 20 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 2: You might know Amanda from being one half of the 21 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,479 Speaker 2: Dresden Dolls, or you might know her as I did 22 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 2: through her TED talk The Art of Asking, which has 23 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 2: been viewed by over ten million people. Amanda is a 24 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 2: total innovator in the world of music and raised one 25 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 2: point two million dollars on a Kickstarter campaign several years 26 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 2: ago to be able to produce her own solo album 27 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 2: independent from a record label. One of the things I 28 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 2: love most about this chat with Amanda is hearing her 29 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 2: very intensive step by step process for creating and delivering 30 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 2: her amazing TED Talk over to Amanda to find out 31 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 2: about how she works. So, Amanda, welcome to the show. 32 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. 33 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 2: I'm so excited to talking to you. I first discovered 34 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 2: you by your TED Talk The Ad of Asking, along 35 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 2: with ten million other people, and from there I discovered 36 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 2: your music and I got to say, your song A 37 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 2: Mother's Confession has got to be my favorite. It just 38 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 2: it makes me cry every time. Literally. 39 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: Oh thank you. I'm actually so the version that you know, 40 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: because that's the only recorded version, is actually a demo 41 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: and I'm that one is just finally made it onto 42 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: the shortlist for my next striker that I'm recording this 43 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 1: false I'm excited about that it's funny. Sometimes the songs 44 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: that I think are just going to be real toss 45 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: offs and not stick are the ones that really resonate 46 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: with people, probably for that reason because they're because they 47 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: happen so quickly and they're so stream of consciousness that 48 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: I don't think they're important. But actually that's usually the 49 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: art that sticks around. 50 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 2: It's so funny, isn't it. And I guess, like in 51 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 2: terms of like what you have done, what you have written, 52 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 2: what you have produced, I I just see you being 53 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 2: so prolific in terms of what you do and and 54 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 2: I'm really key to delve into what happens behind the 55 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 2: scenes of how you work to achieve this. And so look, 56 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 2: I guess to start with, I know that you travel 57 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 2: a lot and your days must look really different. But 58 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 2: I'm curious, are there any like daily rituals or routines 59 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: that you have in your life that kind of, you know, 60 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 2: set the day up. 61 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: Well, uh, well, it depends which self you're talking to. 62 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: It depends if you're talking to the like absolutely depleted, 63 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: no sense of judgment, harassed, teenage wine drinking, cigarette smoking, 64 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: non meditating, shit show of a who fucking cares all anyway, yeah, 65 00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: or the other person. Yeah, I mean I have a few. 66 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: I have a few rituals that I try to make 67 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: daily rituals, and actually just having them exist in my 68 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: life as a benchmark for where I'm at is almost 69 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: useful enough. Because I have never I have never really 70 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: in my life, with exceptions of being on retreat, which 71 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: I do try to do, is kind of a binge 72 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 1: model of discipline. I've never had a routine. I almost 73 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: have so little routine that I'm almost attached to having 74 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 1: no routine, and that is my routine. 75 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 2: That's really interesting. 76 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: But I have different I have different kinds of lives. 77 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: I have the life I live when I'm traveling. I 78 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: have the life I live when I'm living in an airbnb. 79 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: I have the life I live when I'm living in 80 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: a hotel room with my husband and kid. I have 81 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: a life I live when I'm in a tourb And 82 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: you know, I've definitely hammered down some real dows and 83 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: downs and the in the realm of the dos and don'ts. 84 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: Even if I'm not sticking to everything, which literally never happens, 85 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: I at least can use those as a measuring stick 86 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: to see how I'm doing and how depleted I am 87 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: versus how on course I am. And a couple of 88 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 1: those rituals are about where my phone is, where it 89 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: is first thing in the morning, and where it is 90 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 1: last thing at night. If I sleep with my phone 91 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: in the bed or beside my bed, I know I'm 92 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 1: not doing great. If I check it first thing in 93 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: the morning or I'm reading it last thing at night, 94 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 1: I know I'm not doing great. And then the other 95 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: the other benchmark is just around my morning ritual and 96 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 1: do I take my time to ease into the day 97 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: and give myself a little bit of self care and space, 98 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: whether that means stretching or getting to a yoga class 99 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: or even just sitting down and doing ten minutes of meditation, 100 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: or do I just allow myself to get pulled in 101 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: by the sucking tide of chaos and to do list? 102 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: And that's another benchmark that I use. And then another 103 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: one is meals. Do I actually take time to sit 104 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: down and chew my food and eat it? Or am 105 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: I stuffing a piece of something into my face while 106 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: I'm doing work? And those are those are like my 107 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: three big basics and other than you know, work practices 108 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: and what I'm actually doing while I'm so called engaged 109 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 1: in work. Those are really good things to look at 110 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: if I want to know where I'm at. And honestly, 111 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: since having a kid, I've thrown the entire book out 112 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: the window. A good day is a good day even 113 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: if if I haven't sat down for a meal, haven't meditated, 114 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: have had two glasses of wine, and sneaked off to 115 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: smoke a cigarette. It's still a good day if the 116 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: baby's alive and everyone's relatively happy. I just have completely 117 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: trashed my old raw book. 118 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 2: I love that. I love that I'm interested in your 119 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 2: ritual around your phone because I think so many people 120 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 2: live by their phone. They wake up, the phone is 121 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 2: the first thing that they check, and they go to sleep, 122 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 2: and it's the last thing that they check. When when 123 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 2: did that start to become like one of those kind 124 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 2: of rituals or checks for you if you like where, 125 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 2: When when did that happen? 126 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 3: Oh? 127 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: Well, it probably it probably developed right along with instant feedback, 128 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: so I don't remember. I'm trying to think back to 129 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: when I got my first cell phone, and then I 130 00:07:55,480 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: got my first BlackBerry, and where I kept my BlackBerry 131 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,239 Speaker 1: sort of plugged in was it near my bed? Where 132 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: was it? But I would imagine it would have been 133 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: some time around then, like in the late late aughts, 134 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: when all of a sudden, there was always something to 135 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: look at. It wasn't just like a few emails here 136 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: and there. It was actual social connection and actual there 137 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: might be something really exciting happening all the time, all 138 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: the time, all the time, and that you know, my 139 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: band came sort of, you know, came of age. And 140 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: I came of age in my twenties right alongside the 141 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: coming of age of the Internet and smartphones. So I 142 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: went through college with no cell phone and pretty much 143 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: no email address. But then as soon as I hit 144 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: my mid twenties and started my band, that whole explosion 145 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: happened at the same time. And I, you know, I 146 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 1: have a really conflicted relationship with it because I've built 147 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: a whole career and you know, in some cases like 148 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: whole movements and ways of doing art and ways of 149 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: being that are Internet based. But I also feel like 150 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: I've really tasted the dark side in terms of it 151 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: disintegrating the quality of my life and it eating away 152 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: at the quality of my real relationships. And I've spent 153 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 1: a lot of time, doing a lot of thinking about 154 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: which part of it's I want in my life, which 155 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,319 Speaker 1: parts of it are controlling me, and which parts I'm controlling. 156 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: And I definitely see a mirror in Neil, who's also 157 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: very very phone panicked all the time. And that relationship 158 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: with our phones also changed when we had a kid, 159 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 1: because my sensitivity around it went through the roof as 160 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: I really looked in the mirror and saw a baby 161 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: seeing two grown adults who were just glued to their phones, 162 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: and I thought, Yeah, this is just not a good picture. 163 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 1: This is not good for him to be seen. We 164 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: really need to change our habits. 165 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,079 Speaker 2: I love that you're so conscious around that, and I imagine, 166 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 2: like when you're trying to get good, focused, creative work done, 167 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 2: the phone can be quite a distraction. And I want 168 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:17,319 Speaker 2: to explore, like what easier approach to creative work. I've 169 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 2: heard you say that you need sonic distance, and I'd 170 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 2: love to hear more like about how you approach that, 171 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 2: like when you're sitting down to write a song. 172 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: Let's say, Well, I think what you're probably referring to 173 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: is in some interview I talked about needing to be 174 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: far enough away from other people that I couldn't be heard, 175 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: and that's definitely true. I don't like composing or improvising 176 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: or working out a piece if there's someone in the 177 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: next room who could technically be hearing me, because I 178 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: just don't feel like I can be alone with my 179 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: own mistakes, my own explorations. You know, to me, writing 180 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: a song as personal is like taking a shit basically, 181 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: So you don't want someone standing in the room going like, hey, 182 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: it's really like in order to have that kind of 183 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: stream of consciousness, any any you know, any note as possible, 184 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: any vocalization as possible, any word as possible. You can't 185 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: be sort of subconsciously performing for an audience. It just 186 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: doesn't work. You need to get the audience miles away 187 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: so that you can create in peace. And then that's 188 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: something that I have been in relationship with since I 189 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: was a little kid. My parents had a piano and 190 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: it was in the living room of our house, which 191 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: had a door that closed. But even then, by the 192 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: time I was fourteen or fifteen years old and I 193 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: had habits, I wouldn't compose a song if there was 194 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: anyone in the house, even if they were all the 195 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: way up in the attic five hundred feet away. So 196 00:11:55,400 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: I I'm you know, I'm constantly figuring out, like looking 197 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 1: at my own consciousness and figuring out what my habits 198 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: and patterns are. Some of them I try to break 199 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: because I feel like, oh, that's just a stupid, superstitious habit. 200 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: You should get rid of it. And some of them 201 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: I just have to respect, you know, in terms of 202 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: like my song sphincter, it won't open up if there's 203 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: someone in the room. I just need to respect that 204 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: and make sure that I put myself in a good 205 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: space so that I can relax, so that I can 206 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: let this flow without the kind of subconscious boogeyman of 207 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: performativeness getting in the way of what I'm doing. 208 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 2: I imagine that that motherhood must have changed how you 209 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 2: achieve that kind of distance from from people around you, 210 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 2: from the world when when you're writing a song, can 211 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 2: you can you talk about what that looks like? 212 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: Now? 213 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 2: I think you've your son Ashes about three years old? 214 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 3: Is that right? 215 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: Yeah? He's almost three? Yeah? 216 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, So how does that work with motherhood and achieving 217 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 2: that that state that you need to achieve to write music. 218 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: Well, you know what's actually ironic is that I found 219 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: that getting married, and actually not even getting married, but 220 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: attempting to cohabitate with Neil was the far more invasive 221 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: step than having a child, because I, you know, I somehow, 222 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: you know, I somehow find that Neil's presence is a 223 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: lot more invasive than the kids. And I think that's 224 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: also just because Neil has a huge personality. He's super dominant. 225 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: He takes up a lot of space, a lot of air. 226 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: He kind of you know, there's a lot of activity 227 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: around him and a lot of panic around him all 228 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: the time. So if you're hanging out in a room 229 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: or even in three rooms away from Neil Gay and 230 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: there's going to be a lot of just like static 231 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 1: drama whatever, it's not going to be you know. He's 232 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: not a cool, calm, collected working partner. He's like always 233 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: running around with his hair on fire. And that was 234 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: a big adjustment for me, trying to cohabitate with him 235 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: at all. That actually felt like a bigger leap than 236 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: the leap that I've taken as a mother. I remember, 237 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: I remember the first time I really learned the lesson 238 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: and then put it into practice before I had a 239 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: big show and Neil and I were in the same city, 240 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: and I finally bit the bullet and was like, I 241 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: love you, but we have to stay in separate hotel 242 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: rooms because I've gone through this with you and it 243 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: doesn't work. Because if we're in the same hotel room, 244 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: I need to rehearse the night before the gig. I 245 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: need to go through my set list, I need to 246 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: warm up my voice. It's just not going to work. 247 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: And I've tried to do the thing with you where 248 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: I kick you out of the room. It just feels disrespectful. 249 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: It doesn't work. It puts us at odds with each other. 250 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: I just didn't gonna need my own space, so let's 251 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: do it. And actually, like, I can think of the 252 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 1: two shows where I made those realizations and threw the 253 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: straight line. When was a big show I had at 254 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:26,479 Speaker 1: Sydney Opera House. There's a big deal, you know, giant mainstage, 255 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: Sydney Opera House, one time show, lots of rehearsing, and 256 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: I booked us one room and then there we were 257 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: the night before the show and I was like, oh fuck, 258 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: it's six point thirty. I need to rehearse all this material. Neil. 259 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: I have to ask you to leave because I just 260 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: need some space. I need to warm up my voice. 261 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: I'm not going to go out in the street. I 262 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: don't really want to kick you out, but I have 263 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: to kick you out because I know that you're incapable 264 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: of just sitting there and being quiet, like your constant comment. 265 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: So would you leave for two hours? 266 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 3: And he was like, no problem, no problem, it's you, 267 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 3: it's your Sydney opera house show, no problem. Nip around 268 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 3: the corner to a cafe, no problem. And I won't 269 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 3: even text you. I'll be nodding your hair, no problem. 270 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: And like five minutes later he's texting me something amusing 271 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: and going, are you almost finished? Do you mind if 272 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: I just come back and just sit in the corner 273 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: And I was like no. And shortly after that I 274 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: had my ted talk and I was like, I've learned 275 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: my lesson. Let's stay in the same hotel room. But 276 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: literally the night before my talk, uh uh, you're going 277 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: down the hall, dude. I can't deal with you and 278 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: my job at the same time. You're too distracting. And 279 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: I love you, but fuck off. We'd sort of been 280 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: through the fire, so he respected it. And it's the 281 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: thing that's actually made our relationship work. And this is 282 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: also it takes two to tango situation. We've been in 283 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: the you know, I've been on the opposite side of 284 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: this where he really needs his workspace and I have 285 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: to scram and we respect each other. We but we've 286 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: had to learn the hard way. We've had to really 287 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: step on each other before we've gotten into the space 288 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 1: where we can respect each other. Hmmm. 289 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 2: That's great that you've got to that realization. And on 290 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 2: the topic of your TED talk, I would love to 291 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 2: know because that talk has had such a profound impact 292 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 2: on so many people. I'm sure it's it's definitely one 293 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 2: of my favorite TED talks. I'm I'm really interested to 294 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 2: hear what what did that process look like in designing, preparing, 295 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 2: and then delivering that talk. I'd love you to talk 296 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 2: me through what that whole several months, I imagine looked like. 297 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: I started with a very simple idea, which is I 298 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: knew about TED. I knew about TED talks. I didn't 299 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: know a whole lot, you know, and looking back, I 300 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: knew almost nothing. I didn't even understand that TED was 301 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: the annual conference that only happens in one place. But 302 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: I had a real anchoring to share my story the 303 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: connections that I had really discovered between street performing in 304 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,400 Speaker 1: the music industry and what I had learned and why 305 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: I was into crowdfunding. And so I reached out to 306 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,360 Speaker 1: someone I knew who had a TED contact, and I said, 307 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: I think I want to do this, and they said, 308 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: we just need some examples of you public speaking. I said, 309 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: no problem, I've done tons of public speaking, And actually 310 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 1: turns out I had done no public speaking. I just 311 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: thought I had because I'm a rock star and I 312 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: do a lot of interviews, but I'd actually never gotten 313 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: up and given a straight talk. So the first thing 314 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 1: I did was I sort of drafted a little rough 315 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: draft of the talk. I tweeted it out to my 316 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: fans that I was going to be giving a rough 317 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,479 Speaker 1: draft of a talk at Harvard, and I picked Harvard 318 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: on purpose so that it would look impressive. 319 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 2: And I. 320 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,239 Speaker 1: Had a friend film it with one came and it 321 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: was very very rough and tumble. I think it's even 322 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: out on the internet somewhere, and it was a very 323 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 1: very very very you know, beta prototype of what my 324 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,479 Speaker 1: TED talk would become a couple of years later. And 325 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 1: this is even before I did Kickstarter and before all 326 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: the controversy of twenty twelve and stuff happened. So I 327 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 1: sent that off to Ted. I think they stuck it 328 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: in their back burner. And then you know, a year 329 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,199 Speaker 1: went by, or a year or two went by, and 330 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: my Kickstarter happened. The huge controversy happened, where you know, 331 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: people were upset that I had even used Kickstarter. They 332 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: were upset that I was still asking my fans to 333 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: volunteer to play on stage with me. And Ted called 334 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,360 Speaker 1: up and said, okay, do your Ted Talk. And at 335 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: that point I really had something to prove and I 336 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 1: had something to say because I was being so slaughtered 337 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: in the press. And the first thing I did is 338 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: I just I wrote a stream of consciousness bunch of text. 339 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: I recorded myself speaking it, and it was fifty minutes long. 340 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: Chris was supposed to be a six minute talk, and 341 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I won't even get into the back and 342 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: forths with Chris Anderson at Ted. You know, they originally 343 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,679 Speaker 1: invited me to play a piece of music and just 344 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: give a quick introduction about my Kickstarter, and I was like, 345 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: uh uh no, I think I have a real talk 346 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: in me. So I negotiated up at many levels to 347 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: actually get my talk to twelve minutes. It's you know, 348 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: it was going to be a song with an introduction, 349 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: and then it was going to be a six minute 350 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: talk and a song, and then it finally turned into 351 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: a twelve minute talk. And I I worked with a 352 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: friend of meals who I had just met, who was 353 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: a magician and essays named Jamie Ian Jamie Ian Swiss. 354 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: I called him up and I said, you're the only 355 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: person I know who knows anything about Ted. Will you 356 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: help me with this talk? And he said, okay, well 357 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: read to me what you've got and I read him 358 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: the whole forty five minute spiel and he said, well, 359 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: I can see you have a long way to go. 360 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: If you really want me to help you do this, 361 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 1: I'm in. Let's start working on it. And he became 362 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: my phone guru. And over the next two months, I 363 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: just drafted and drafted and drafted and cut and shaped 364 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: and economized and redrafted and redrafted, and by the time 365 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: I got my talk down to about fifteen minutes, it 366 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: was in the kind of shape where I could start 367 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: rehearsing it. And I rehearsed it for a room full 368 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 1: of people at my house. I rehearsed it for a 369 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 1: room full of fellows at Harvard that I was part of. 370 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: I rehearsed it to anyone that would listen to it 371 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 1: over the phone. I just rehearsed the shit out of it. 372 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: And even up to the last day, I was changing 373 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: words and sentences. I was changing adjectives. I was changing 374 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: a few little sentences here and there. I was timing 375 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: myself constantly, trying to hit the twelve minute mark and 376 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: working on the pacing and trying to figure out where 377 00:21:58,080 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 1: I could really pause and where I had to pick 378 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: up a pain. I drew an entire map of my 379 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,439 Speaker 1: hometown with little memory markers of where things in my 380 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: talk were happening. I just I just went deep. And 381 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 1: you know, even the day before the talk in Long Beach, California, 382 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: I was walking around with my you know, with my headphones, 383 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: just recording my talk over and over again, trying to 384 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: memorize it, trying to make links between one idea and 385 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: the other so I wouldn't get tripped up. And even 386 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 1: then I tripped up my ted talk. They edited, really 387 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: they edited that shit. Well, like there's some if you 388 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: if you went and looked at the original. There were 389 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: some spots where I got lost and I had to 390 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: find my place, and it was a it was a 391 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 1: harrowing performance. You get one shot, dude, and that's it. 392 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: You don't get a redo. So if you lose your place, 393 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: you don't you know, you don't get to get you know, 394 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,360 Speaker 1: go back and start over. That's it. 395 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 2: Absolutely, How did you manage your nerves on the day, 396 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 2: because imagine it would have been just completely different to 397 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 2: what you normally do on stage. 398 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: Yes, I did not drink the night before. I went 399 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: to bed early. I went to bed in a room alone, 400 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: without a chattering husband. I rehearsed my talk a couple 401 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: times before I went to bed. I drank a couple 402 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 1: of glasses of water. I went to sleep. I woke 403 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: up at the crack of dawn. I worked out, and 404 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 1: then I just like, let go and let good. I 405 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: just I said, this is it. At a certain point, 406 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to have to let go. I have to 407 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: stop rehearsing, I have to stop fretting. I've done the work. 408 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: It's either going to happen or it's not. And and 409 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: I you know, I went for broke, but you know, 410 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: I also I have a home team advantage over a 411 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: lot of those other TED speakers. I'm comfortable on a stage, 412 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: so I dealt I didn't deal with stage fright, but 413 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: I dealt with memory you memorization freight, Like, am I 414 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: really going to remember twelve minutes worth of TED talk? 415 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: But you know, being on a stage in front of 416 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: a thousand people, I was like, Yeah, that's fine. I'm 417 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: used to that. That's not hard. 418 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, what an amazing story, an amazing outcome as well. 419 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 2: Do you create deadlines to get things done? 420 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: Absolutely, that's the way I have written my past three 421 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: or four songs. I've gone to my Patreon, which is, 422 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: you know, my subscribership of about eleven thousand people. I 423 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 1: go to them. I tell them I'm going in the 424 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: studio this week. I'll have a song written. By the 425 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,159 Speaker 1: end of the week, you'll get a demo. And you know, 426 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: since there's also a financial reward attached, because if I 427 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: don't send out my demo, I don't get paid. It's 428 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: pretty it's pretty motivating, and especially with the kid and 429 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 1: the lack of you know, sacred time to sit down 430 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: and write, I just book a studio, I go in, 431 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: I sit my ass down, at a piano and at 432 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: eleven o'clock I say, okay, I've got till five. This 433 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: is songwriting day. I don't do it every day, and 434 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: I do it once every month or once every couple 435 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: of months. But when I do it, I don't fuck around. 436 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 1: I just sit down and I write and whatever comes 437 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: out that's it. So it better be really good. 438 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,239 Speaker 2: I love it. I love it. Look. Just to finish off, 439 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 2: I had a few kind of rapid fire questions for you, 440 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 2: So look at a large pad. Of staying focus is 441 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 2: tuning into useful and insightful stimulus and tuning out the rest. 442 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 2: So I'm curious about a few things that you're consuming 443 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,439 Speaker 2: at the moment. Firstly, what are like a couple of 444 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 2: podcasts that you're currently loving. 445 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: I don't actually listen to many podcasts at all because 446 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: I don't have time, and since I'm a musician, most 447 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: of my ear real estate is taken up by work 448 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:57,959 Speaker 1: fair enough. But I do listen to NPR. So I 449 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: am a massive fan of Radio Lab, and I know 450 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: Radio Lab has a podcast, so I listened to that 451 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 1: not religiously, but if I did have her podcast religion, 452 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: it would probably be Radio Lab. I just love the 453 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: way it's edited together, and I love the way the 454 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: thoughts connected. And I also listen to the TED Radio Hour, 455 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: which is sort of a great way of also staying 456 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 1: connected to the TED community and getting my brain sort 457 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: of massaged with interesting ideas. 458 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 2: Love it. What about a newsletters? I don't know what 459 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 2: your relationship is with your inbox, but are there any 460 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 2: a newsletters that you actually look forward to receiving and reading. 461 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. I subscribe to the Daily Coast, which is an 462 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: American political email letter, and I click on that every 463 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: couple of days. And I also I follow the e 464 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: newsletters of the prominent politicians in my area, Elizabeth Warren, 465 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders, just to see what they're up to and 466 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: see where they're pointing the electorate towards. And a couple 467 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: of my local politicians who I wouldn't expect you guys 468 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: to know over in Australia, but you know, the sort 469 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: of local grassroots guys who are trying to get democratic 470 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,959 Speaker 1: seats in Congress and who I feel need my support. 471 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: I pay attention to all of their stuff. 472 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 2: Cool. And what's a great book that you've read recently? 473 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,400 Speaker 1: I'm glad you asked. I am just finishing up an 474 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: incredible book called Writing My Wrongs by Shakur Sengur, and 475 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: it's I spent the weekend in prison two weekends ago, 476 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,439 Speaker 1: not because I got arrested on any heavy charges, but 477 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: I was there for a restorative justice retreat and it 478 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 1: really blew my mind. I had never spent time in 479 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: a prison before, and I was there for a full 480 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:06,439 Speaker 1: weekend of inmates stories and victim and survivors stories and 481 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 1: everyone sharing and holding space for one another. And it 482 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: was life changing. And I actually experienced a kind of 483 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,120 Speaker 1: a weird Ben's culture shock coming back into the real 484 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 1: world after being sort of immersed in this very honest, 485 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: very wholehearted, super vulnerable place that these inmates and these 486 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: survivors were speaking from, and I wanted to I wanted 487 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: to keep reading about what I had been learning about. 488 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: And someone recommended this book to me, and it's called 489 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,719 Speaker 1: Writing My Wrongs, Life, Death, and Redemption in American Prison, 490 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: and it's it's basically the story of, you know, what 491 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: it is like to get stuck in the American prison 492 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: system at a young age for you know, gang related, 493 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: drug related homicide and the effect it has, and it 494 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: it helped me actually sort of adjust back to the 495 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: real world to be able to take the book out 496 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: with me and stay connected to the inmates that I 497 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: had bonded with. 498 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 2: Wow, that sounds amazing. And finally, how can people find 499 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 2: out more about you and consume more of your amazing 500 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 2: music and work. 501 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: Well, you can google me easily, and I'm on the 502 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: socials pretty much everywhere, as just at Amanda Palmer. If 503 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: you're really into me and you want to be in 504 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: a committed relationship with me, which I would love, I 505 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: swear I'm really nice. My community is really nice. My 506 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: community is beautiful, and I would join my Patreon. It's 507 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: a dollar a month if you can afford that, and 508 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: it's actually it's a really nice place on the internet. 509 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: It's one of the things that I really wasn't expecting. 510 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: But I mean, the world of Facebook and Twitter and 511 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: everywhere else has just gotten Sometimes it just feels so 512 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: hard and toxic to be on the internet that you 513 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: need to you want to just sort of go where 514 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: the nice, intelligent people are. And I've actually found that 515 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: my Patreon is this panacea and there's eleven thousand people there. 516 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: I write a blog that's often public but sometimes private, 517 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 1: just for my community. People are really wonderful. I put 518 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: my content out there, you know, every couple of weeks. 519 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: I write blogs at least a few times a week, 520 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: and that's a really good way to stay connected. And 521 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: you can kind of pick and choose what you read 522 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: and what you consume. I send downloads, I'm doing my 523 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: own I'm starting my own podcast. That's really fun. So yeah, 524 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: and if not, you know, just find me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook. 525 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: I'm in all those places and I sort of you know, 526 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: I'm sort of slutty. I post around all the time. 527 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 2: So it's not me. Oh so awesome, Amanda. It's been 528 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 2: such a treat talking to you. And whenever you're touring 529 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 2: in Melvioyn, which is where I live, there is a 530 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 2: couch for you at my place anytime you need one. 531 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: Well, I will hopefully be back next year when I'm 532 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: touring on my new record, Excellent Excellent, I'll be there. 533 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 2: Hey there, that's it for today's episode. If you're looking 534 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 2: for more tips to improve the way you work, I 535 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 2: write a short monthly newsletter that contains three cool things 536 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 2: that I've discovered that help me work better, which range 537 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 2: from interesting research findings through the gadgets that I'm loving. 538 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 2: You can sign up for that at Howiwork dot com. 539 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 2: That's how I Work dot co. And you're probably sick 540 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 2: of podcasts telling you to give them a review in 541 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 2: iTunes if you like the episode, so I promise I 542 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 2: won't ask you to do that, but you know, if 543 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 2: the mood stricks you, then go for it. And if 544 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 2: you like this episode and you want more, just hit 545 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 2: the subscribe button. See you next time.