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Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics

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Speaker 1: used by the world's most successful people to get so

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Speaker 1: much out of their day. I'm your host, doctor about

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Speaker 1: the INBA. I'm an organizational psychologist, the founder of behavioral

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Speaker 1: science consultancy Inventium, and I'm obsessed with finding ways to

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Speaker 1: optimize my work. Date. This episode is another my favorite

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Speaker 1: tip episode. The title's probably pretty self explanatory. It's about

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Speaker 1: my favorite tip from each of the interviews I conduct.

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Speaker 1: So the extract of my chat today is from my

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Speaker 1: interview with Philip Kingston. Philip is the co founder of

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Speaker 1: one of the most successful real estate agencies in Australia,

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Speaker 1: Gary Pierre. I first became aware of Philip about fifteen

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Speaker 1: years ago when I randomly encountered an auction he was running,

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Speaker 1: and it was one of the most entertaining twenty minutes

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Speaker 1: of my week. Philip is hands down the best auctioneer

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Speaker 1: I've seen. It's like going to outdoor theater, and over

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Speaker 1: the years Philip has sold properties for for me and

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Speaker 1: I also recently bought one from him too, So Philip

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Speaker 1: is one of the best sales people I've ever met.

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Speaker 1: And in this extract from our chat. I talked to

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Speaker 1: Philip about how he fast tracks getting to know someone

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Speaker 1: in the sales process. So on that note, let's hear

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Speaker 1: about Philip's strategy.

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Speaker 2: So I love to ask a lot of questions.

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Speaker 3: So what's going in What's going on in my mind

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Speaker 3: is I'm trying to work you out, because ultimately, if

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Speaker 3: I can work you out, then the pathway for sales

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Speaker 3: success is so much easier. So I'm a great listener,

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Speaker 3: but I'm also a great question asker. I want to

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Speaker 3: know as much as I can about the person that

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Speaker 3: I'm sitting across from, so you know the basics of

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Speaker 3: understanding somebody. Will you know their family, who is in

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Speaker 3: their family, their occupation, what do they do with their

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Speaker 3: spare time. So there's that old achronism is that there

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Speaker 3: aren't word for ford at which is family, occupation, recreation

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Speaker 3: and dreams.

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Speaker 2: Have you not heard that I have none?

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Speaker 3: So look, it's about it's hundreds of years old, I think,

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Speaker 3: and I keep forgetting to train my team around ford.

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Speaker 3: But if you think about having a conversation with somebody,

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Speaker 3: what's important to those people?

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Speaker 2: What's important to any of us?

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Speaker 3: Family, family, occupation, recreation and dreams? And if you can

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Speaker 3: cover off on those four items, and obviously, you know

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Speaker 3: you don't want to make it like the Spanish inquisition,

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Speaker 3: but if you can cover off on those things, you're

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Speaker 3: going to learn a lot about what is motivating the person.

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Speaker 3: And then once you understand their motivations, then you understand

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Speaker 3: their pressure points. And then obviously my job is to

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Speaker 3: apply pressure to their pressure points.

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Speaker 1: So a couple of questions on that, how how do

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Speaker 1: you ask questions around those things in a way that

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Speaker 1: doesn't seem salesy, because I feel like they're there are

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Speaker 1: these terrible sales people that you know. It just feels

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Speaker 1: like they're very transparent in how they're using strategies and

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Speaker 1: you see straight through them and you immediately lose trust.

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Speaker 1: But having been on the receiving end of your sales strategies,

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Speaker 1: like I'm in like Philip sell my home, Like, how

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Speaker 1: are you kind of doing that?

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Speaker 3: And I will say, You've been a wonderful client across

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Speaker 3: the journey, I think, look for me, it's natural. But

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Speaker 3: at the same time, if we develop what natural really is.

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Speaker 3: I'm genuinely interested in the human condition. I genuinely like people.

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Speaker 3: I'm genuine and genuinely forgiving of everybody's strengths and weaknesses,

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Speaker 3: because I understand that I am far from a perfect person.

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Speaker 3: It obviously helps for me because I've been married to

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Speaker 3: a psychologist for thirty years, so coming home and debriefing

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Speaker 3: with her has probably made me far better at my

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Speaker 3: skills and crafts than I would have been without her.

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Speaker 3: But ultimately, I think my position starts from one of

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Speaker 3: genuine interest. I am genuinely interested about whatever you do,

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Speaker 3: because ultimately, whether you're a painter or a plumber, or

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Speaker 3: a neurosurgeon or a politician, everybody's got a story, and

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Speaker 3: everybody's got a range of stories. Everybody's got a tragic story.

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Speaker 3: Everybody's got a school story, everybody's got a parental story.

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Speaker 3: Everybody's got the story of being a son or a daughter,

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Speaker 3: or a brother or a sister. And then a lot

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Speaker 3: of people have had some really tragic stories. And I

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Speaker 3: think that I'm a collector of stories. I genuinely am

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Speaker 3: interested in your story. I'm interested in and if you're

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Speaker 3: interested in people, I mean I think the best salespeople

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Speaker 3: intrinsically do what they do in autopilot, because the best

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Speaker 3: sales people generally are in sales, because sales puts you

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Speaker 3: face to face and in contact with people. So I

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Speaker 3: think it can be very contrived from people that are

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Speaker 3: just in it for the money. If you're just in

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Speaker 3: it for the money or for the ticking of the boxes,

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Speaker 3: then you're asking a whole lot of questions that do

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Speaker 3: sound hollow and empty. But if you've started the day

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Speaker 3: like I have, which is I've looked after myself first,

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Speaker 3: I've got myself into a position where everything about me

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Speaker 3: is working. I'm hungry to learn and hear somebody's next story.

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Speaker 3: Then I'm able to take people down the path that

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Speaker 3: I need know they need to go on, but I

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Speaker 3: will do it with care and concern because the story

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Speaker 3: interests me. I think every single person I've ever met,

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Speaker 3: if I've asked enough questions or we've had enough time

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Speaker 3: to go deep, everybody, including myself, has got some triggers.

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Speaker 3: That's the core of who they are. But most of

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Speaker 3: us are trained not to give those things away. And

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Speaker 3: yet I think most people are actually wanting to talk.

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Speaker 3: So I think if you, if you approach it with

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Speaker 3: genuine interest, then it's easy.

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Speaker 2: So I find my job easy.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned once you investigate these four areas you identify

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Speaker 1: the pressure points or trigger points, Can you give me

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Speaker 1: an example of what that is and how you might

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Speaker 1: use that to help with the sales process.

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Speaker 3: So if we go to that forward, families are really

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Speaker 3: easy one, and family is the one I generally go

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Speaker 3: to first, because let's be clear, I'm generally speaking to

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Speaker 3: people and I'm sitting in their home, and their home

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Speaker 3: and regardless of its financial status or its cosmetic status,

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Speaker 3: it is their castle. And you know, I'm just as

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Speaker 3: happy to sell a one bedroom apartment genuinely as I

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Speaker 3: am to sell a father or a six or a

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Speaker 3: ten million dollar house. So I'll start with family because

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Speaker 3: family is the great positioner, and it also opens doors

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Speaker 3: because when you're as connected as I am, I'm going

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Speaker 3: to know somebody. I might know your brother, your mother,

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Speaker 3: your aunt, your uncle, your sister, your brother. So that

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Speaker 3: enables me to establish a connection, but it also gives

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Speaker 3: me an understanding of sometimes how brittle you are or otherwise,

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Speaker 3: because ultimately, those people that will open up very quickly

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Speaker 3: will give me more information. Those that will clamp that

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Speaker 3: conversation down very quickly also give me some understanding of

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Speaker 3: what I've got to do next.

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Speaker 2: So family is a great one.

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Speaker 3: Occupation is critically important. It's critically important I understand what

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Speaker 3: you do. Why if that's so important, because if you

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Speaker 3: think about it, most people have an occupation that generally

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Speaker 3: defines them one way or another, and it enables me

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Speaker 3: to work out what strategy I will bring to the table.

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Speaker 3: So clearly, I'm going to talk very differently to an

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Speaker 3: accountant than i will to somebody that's involved in event management.

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Speaker 3: And I'm going to talk very differently to a neurosurgeon

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Speaker 3: than I will to a sports coach.

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Speaker 1: And so how like, in practical terms, what does that

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Speaker 1: conversation look like with the accountant versus the sports coach.

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Speaker 3: Well too, with the greatest respect to all of the

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Speaker 3: accountants that might be listening, I mean, they're generally speaking

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Speaker 3: much more detail focused. So I'm going to be much

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Speaker 3: more detail orientated with an accountant than I am going

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Speaker 3: to be with somebody that's organizing fun, alcohol fueled events

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Speaker 3: that are all designed to get people entertained. So I

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Speaker 3: think that for me, finding out what somebody does is

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Speaker 3: going to give me a window to the understanding of

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Speaker 3: how they live their life. And that's just critically important

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Speaker 3: and for most people where at work?

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Speaker 2: I mean, what's worked today? For me?

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Speaker 3: It's twenty four seven, three sixty five. I don't think

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Speaker 3: that for me, the work date never finishes, and I

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Speaker 3: think more and more people are coming like that. So

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Speaker 3: work is much more defining of people today than it.

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Speaker 2: Probably ever used to be.

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Speaker 3: So it's really important that I understand what you do

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Speaker 3: that will again lack families. If I've got the understanding

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Speaker 3: of your family. If I now understand what you do

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Speaker 3: for a living, recreation is a great one. How do

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Speaker 3: you spend your time? And then your dreams? And that

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Speaker 3: is obviously a little bit more esoteric, and I don't

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Speaker 3: jump into dreams straight away.

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Speaker 1: How do you ask about that? Though in a way

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Speaker 1: that is not seeming.

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Speaker 2: All oprah like?

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Speaker 1: What are the quests?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: How are you phrasing those questions?

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Speaker 3: So I think the importance is the conversation, because if

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Speaker 3: you can have a good conversation for people, these questions

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Speaker 3: really just form part of a conversation that you would

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Speaker 3: have with someone. So if you actually ask me to

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Speaker 3: define how do I ask somebody about their dreams? I

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Speaker 3: probably couldn't even give you the answer for that, but

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Speaker 3: I could say to you that when I talk to

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Speaker 3: somebody about their job, where have they been, what did

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Speaker 3: they do, and where do they see themselves in that

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Speaker 3: job in a few years time, Because essentially, if you

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Speaker 3: think about it, that really does pick up on where

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Speaker 3: are their dreams in relation.

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Speaker 2: To their occupation.

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Speaker 3: If we talk about family, for example, their dreams about

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Speaker 3: where they might be with family. Often I'll be dealing

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Speaker 3: with people around tragedy that's happened in their family one

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Speaker 3: way or another, whether that be.

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Speaker 2: Death or divorce.

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Speaker 3: So there's a lot that happens in a good conversation.

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Speaker 3: And I love good conversations because good conversations enable me

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Speaker 3: to learn something, and I suppose that's probably something that's

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Speaker 3: important to me. I think I have conversations that will

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Speaker 3: also teach me about something I don't know about. That's

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Speaker 3: why I'm fascinated when I meet somebody with an occupation

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Speaker 3: that I don't know much about, because it gives me

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Speaker 3: an understanding now of a new occupation. So I'm a

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Speaker 3: collector of stories. I'm a collector of people's experiences.

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Speaker 1: That is it for today's show. If you like this episode,

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Speaker 1: why not share it with someone else that you think

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Speaker 1: could benefit from it? And a big thank you if

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Speaker 1: you have been spreading the word about how I work.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the ways this podcast has continued to grow,

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Speaker 1: So thank you so much if you've been doing that.

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Speaker 1: So that's it for today's show, and I'll see you

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Speaker 1: next time.