1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: As a listener of how I work. 2 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 2: You've hopefully picked up a few tips on this show 3 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 2: to help you work better? 4 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: But do you want more? 5 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 2: And maybe in a book form, because let's face it, 6 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 2: books are the most awesome thing on the planet. Well, 7 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 2: now you can. In my new book, time Wise, I 8 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,279 Speaker 2: uncover a wealth of proven strategies that anyone can use 9 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 2: to improve their productivity, work, and lifestyle. Time Wise brings 10 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 2: together all of the gems that I've learned from conversations 11 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,480 Speaker 2: with the world's greatest thinkers, including Adam Grant, Dan Pink, 12 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 2: Mia Friedman, and Turia Pitt and many many others. Time 13 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 2: Wise is launching on July five, but you can pre 14 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 2: order it now from Amantha dot com. And if you 15 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 2: pre order time Wise, I have a couple of bonuses 16 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 2: for you. First, you'll receive an ebook that details my 17 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 2: top twenty favorite apps and software for being time wise 18 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 2: with email, calendar, passwords, reading, cooking ideas, and more. You 19 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 2: will also get a complementary spot in a webinar that 20 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 2: I'm running on June twenty nine, where I will be 21 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 2: sharing the tactics from time Wise that I use most often, 22 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 2: and also some bonus ones that are not in the 23 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 2: book that I use and love. Hop onto Amantha dot 24 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 2: com to pre order. Now do you remember the olden 25 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 2: days when you had maybe one or two social media 26 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 2: accounts instead of eight, when you use the internet to 27 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 2: read blogs for half an hour every once in a while, 28 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 2: when your resume was your calling card and you didn't 29 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 2: have to build your online presence into a kind of 30 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 2: personal brand. Now that the Internet is a crucial part 31 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 2: of almost every business and every job on the market, 32 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 2: you're expected to be almost everywhere. Exactly which platforms are 33 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 2: important for your industry might differ, but everyone's using multiple 34 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 2: apps and networks to sell their products, off of their 35 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 2: services or distribute their content. But when you need to 36 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 2: be everywhere, how do you get there? You've probably seen 37 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:12,119 Speaker 2: Linktree in the bios of your favorite people on Instagram, 38 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:19,239 Speaker 2: whether they're musicians, entrepreneurs, or podcasters. Co founder Anthony Zachariah 39 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 2: wanted people to be able to create a digital homepage 40 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 2: for themselves in an increasingly complex online world, and the 41 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 2: link Tree has absolutely exploded since then, and recently hit 42 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 2: Unicorn status, which means the company is worth over one 43 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 2: billion dollars. So how does Anthony stay on top? Of 44 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 2: things as his company multiplies and expands into different time zones. 45 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 2: How does he stay sane when most of his workday 46 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 2: is spent in meetings, And how does he do it 47 00:02:53,400 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 2: all now that he's got twin toddlers. My name is 48 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 2: doctor Amantha Imbert. I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder 49 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 2: of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, and this is how I 50 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 2: work a show about how to help you do your 51 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 2: best work. Now, given this conversation is with the co 52 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 2: founder of link Tree, I thought that a good place 53 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 2: to start was to understand exactly what link tree is. 54 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: Straight from the horse's mouth. 55 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 3: For those who haven't come across the linktree before. The 56 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 3: simplest way to explain it is it is one link 57 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 3: to how's your entire digital ecosystem? Everywhere you curate content, 58 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 3: create content, wherever you monetize. 59 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 4: Where we're trying to drive an audience to. 60 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 3: Link allows you to house that in one simple link, 61 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 3: and that produces another list of links beyond that that 62 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 3: drives your audience. So whatever your audience is living is 63 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 3: where you'll share your link tree, and then you drive 64 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 3: them to those places. So we are the category creator 65 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 3: in what is known as the linking bio market now 66 00:03:55,360 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 3: or linking biotools. We started the business about six years 67 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 3: ag when we're running a digital marketing agency, and it's 68 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 3: grown very significantly now. It was a side hustle to 69 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 3: the agency back then, we're trying to solve a problem 70 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 3: for ourselves and our clients. 71 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 4: But you fast forward. 72 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 3: Now there's twenty four million people using it around the world, 73 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 3: about one point two billion visits a month on link 74 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,119 Speaker 3: tree profiles, and we're a team of about two hundred 75 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 3: and eighty globally. 76 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 2: And how do you use link tree yourself being what 77 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 2: are the people that created it? 78 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's on my Twitter profile and my LinkedIn 79 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 3: as well. And for me, it's just like sharing resources 80 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 3: and new things for link tree, So embedding a tweet 81 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 3: for a new feature we've released, or a certain video, 82 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 3: showcasing a playlist that I'm listening to, often showcasing things 83 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 3: we're doing for our employees. So when we release our 84 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 3: parential leaf policy or our benefits policy, the press around that, 85 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 3: link to press articles, they're probably the main things. 86 00:04:58,839 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 4: I use it for. 87 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 3: So if you're coming to my link tree, you just 88 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 3: gett a bit of a glance of like the things, 89 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 3: the things I think you should know most about from 90 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 3: a link tree perspective, things are most proud of right. 91 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 2: Now and like a lot of the I guess the 92 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 2: power users for link tree are traditionally creators and influencers 93 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 2: for people who are kind of not in that realm, 94 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: and you know, maybe they're just they're like your typical 95 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 2: knowledge worker that you know is doing their thing and 96 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 2: there may be on two or three different social media channels. 97 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 2: What do you feel is like the optimum way to 98 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 2: use link. 99 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 3: Tree, So to your point of say a knowledge worker, 100 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 3: where they may want to use it as their essentially 101 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 3: they've formed a new form of digital identity or a 102 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 3: digital business card, and it's a great way just to 103 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 3: list out. Put it on your email signature, your LinkedIn, 104 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 3: or your Twitter. He's Playarlys, I'm listening to. Maybe he's 105 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 3: a video of what's recently. He's my LinkedIn in, my 106 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,799 Speaker 3: Twitter or other social handles. You know. Ultimately, most knowledge 107 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 3: work have probably got more than five social media accounts 108 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 3: of some sort, and so where they might link to 109 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 3: those platforms they want to share that. We're seeing a 110 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 3: big rise in that as well. 111 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: Now late last year I interviewed Phil Libban, who you're 112 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 2: probably aware is the co founder of ever Note, and 113 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 2: one of the things that he shared with me is 114 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,679 Speaker 2: that something that he learned that served him really well 115 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 2: in leading companies that grew to be very, very big, 116 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 2: is that breaking points tend to happen at the numbers 117 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 2: three and ten. So like, for example, when you hit 118 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,039 Speaker 2: ten people or thirty people, or one hundred people or 119 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 2: three hundred people, and that's when all the kind of 120 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:47,359 Speaker 2: processes and systems tend to collapse and break and you 121 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 2: need to build new ones. And so back in March 122 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 2: twenty twenty, link Tree, I believe had seven employees, and 123 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 2: now you're getting close to three hundred globally. I'd love 124 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 2: to know what have been the hardest kind of breaking 125 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 2: points for you in managing that growth. 126 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. I think we've that's a 127 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 3: really good insight. In the three and ten, I would 128 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 3: say it's pretty accurate. And if we've thought about it 129 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 3: in those numbers specifically, I think we've We've had other 130 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 3: people who have gone through their growth tell us about 131 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 3: you know, every fifty or one hundred, you know, fifty 132 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 3: and then one hundred and then two hundred and then 133 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 3: five hundred. I would say that it's very true. We've 134 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 3: been very I think we've had a couple of different 135 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 3: reorganizations throughout in the last two years of how we 136 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 3: structure the teams and where we put leaders, and how 137 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 3: we organize that, how we organize squads. We work in 138 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 3: a cross functional squad model, so that's been that's changed 139 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 3: a few times. I'd say definitely the fifty person mark, 140 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 3: particularly as we're growing globally where most of our team 141 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 3: are in Australia. We were quite a few, you know, 142 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 3: in the US and spread out across times into in 143 00:07:56,040 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 3: Australia and New Zealand as well, and so the the 144 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 3: fifty and the hundred mark has broken. I think what's 145 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 3: also is like our ways of working has had to 146 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 3: evolve a few times as well, and also just the 147 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 3: reiteration of like, you know, we're not a jacket on 148 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 3: the back of a chair, culture that you have to 149 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 3: always be online during certain hours, or like even though 150 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 3: we're remote. First that concept of like, well, I don't 151 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 3: worry about the office, my jackets on the chair even 152 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 3: though it might not be here, and that trying to 153 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 3: embed that culture of like working asynchronously and you know, 154 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 3: have to reiterate ways of working quite a few different times. 155 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 3: And we're going through a new process at the moment 156 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 3: of that, because as we've grown, there's all different tools 157 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 3: and systems we've been trying to use to make things 158 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 3: more efficient and friendly and inclusive for a global team 159 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 3: that's working remotely. But then with that sometimes some feedback 160 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 3: is like I don't know what to use for what anymore. 161 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 3: Guys like, you've got a few different tools we're working with, 162 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 3: where do I start? And so like, yeah, that's also fair. 163 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 3: We've tried to go too deep on efficiency and optimization 164 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 3: with certain tools and systems, like let's bring it back 165 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 3: to some basics. So, yeah, there's a process happening right now. 166 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 3: And then as we approach three hundred people to just 167 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 3: hone in a little more. 168 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 2: So at that fifty and one hundred person mark, what 169 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 2: was some of the best things that you look back 170 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 2: at now that you put in place to help. 171 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: To help rebuild what had been broken? 172 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 3: I would say things like notion and just being very 173 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 3: open and transparent. We grew to fifty pretty quickly, and 174 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,959 Speaker 3: that the need to be having the projects people working 175 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 3: on be open, so someone being like how do I 176 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 3: find how someone in product might be asking someone in 177 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 3: marketing like how do I find what your marketing plan 178 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 3: is going to look like? Or vice versa like guys, 179 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 3: what are you building? They need to think about from 180 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 3: a go to micro perspective from now and there's a 181 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 3: notion link. We use notion as are wiki what everyone 182 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 3: everyone's working on after meetings, everything is documented so anybody 183 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 3: can look at each other's projects and you know where 184 00:09:58,720 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 3: to go for that. 185 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 4: So here, here's your notion look at everything in there. 186 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 3: As we do any questions afterwards, or that person may 187 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 3: actually record a LOOM video to talk them through it 188 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 3: for five minutes and you get full context verbally so 189 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 3: much quicker than sometimes just you know, reading it out 190 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 3: or typing it all out. So they implemented a few 191 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 3: of those things and encouraged a lot of that open 192 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 3: collaboration and even even just with our weekly all hands meeting, 193 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 3: being very transparent about a lot of things so that 194 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 3: everybody has full context. That became we realized that pretty 195 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 3: quickly early on that we needed to have that dialogue. 196 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 3: I think that's helped everybody have visibility and have also 197 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 3: just like the buying from a whole team to feel 198 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 3: like we're all on the journey together. That was one 199 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 3: thing at the fifty person mark we noticed have a 200 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 3: big impact. The other would be just some rules around meetings. 201 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 3: Previously it'd be a need of like, oh, we should 202 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:55,959 Speaker 3: talk about this. Let's just invite anybody that we think 203 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 3: is relevant to a meeting and just put in their calendar. 204 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 3: And you know, you have to be very intentional about meetings, 205 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 3: particularly with global workforce and time zones, and the rules 206 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 3: around meetings we implemented pretty early on have helped help 207 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 3: that as well, and not to be able to have 208 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 3: to remind people though about it as new folks coming 209 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 3: to the business, just our ways of working reminders, so 210 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 3: things like, you know, the first rule, first principle for 211 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 3: great meetings is doesn't need to be a meeting. Just 212 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 3: actually asked that doesn't need to be a meeting. Can 213 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,719 Speaker 3: I just put an update on an asynchron's channel. Can 214 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 3: I record a video of somebody talking about it and 215 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 3: to get feedback? 216 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 4: Does it link? 217 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 3: Literally need to be a meeting because we need to 218 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 3: get to a decision together within a period of time. 219 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 3: So little things like that have helped I think another 220 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 3: part on the meeting thing as well, is you know, 221 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 3: beyond just doesn't need to be a meeting, is any 222 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 3: pre context? Like if we think the last few weeks 223 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 3: have actually ramped this forcefulness up, I would say, is 224 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 3: like we get to a meeting and there's ten people 225 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 3: on the call, and somebody's about to present a deck 226 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 3: and spend the whole thirty minutes and presenting. It's we 227 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 3: cancel the meeting because it's wasting ten people's time presenting. 228 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 3: So that person who has to record a loom video 229 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 3: in advance and send it to everybody seven's got context 230 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 3: and the meeting's about discussion of Q and A are 231 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 3: getting to a decision place. 232 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 2: Hey, God, so you cancel the meeting that started within 233 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 2: the meeting. 234 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 3: If we're going to if it's going to waste ten 235 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 3: people's time present unless it's absolutely the only way to 236 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 3: get through it, will will we will. It's only hapen 237 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 3: a few times so far, but we're starting to do 238 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 3: it because ten people in a meeting is not only expensive, 239 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,719 Speaker 3: it's also just like you then're going to have to 240 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 3: have another meeting to have a discussion, So share a 241 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 3: five minute video in advance of what you want to present, 242 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 3: and then the full menu can be on discussion, Q 243 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 3: and A get into a resolve place so you can 244 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 3: then move on with that decision to get to the 245 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 3: next place. 246 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: Wow, what's been the reaction from people? 247 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever been in a meeting, although 248 00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 2: having said that, I'm pretty strict on the meetings that 249 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 2: I set in a ten but I've never been in 250 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 2: a meeting that it's been about to start and someone said, no, 251 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 2: we're going to cancel this meeting. 252 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:07,719 Speaker 1: What if people do? 253 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 3: I think it's first is a bit of shock, but 254 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 3: then it's a realization of like, oh, yeah, you're right. 255 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 3: If we're going to spend this whole time just listening 256 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 3: to a presentation that we could have watched. You know 257 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 3: a great thing about loom You can watch a video 258 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 3: in advance on one point five or two speed, So 259 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 3: what might be a ten minute chat could be watching 260 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 3: five minutes. You get the context, you're ready to go, 261 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 3: So it doesn't have to happen all the time. 262 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 4: But it's just happened a few times. 263 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 3: Mainly, I wouldn't say, look, it's not to prove a point, 264 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 3: it's not to be a hard ass about it. It's 265 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 3: not our intention at all. It is just like, guys, 266 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:40,599 Speaker 3: is half an hour right here, we could all be 267 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 3: doing better things. Let's recap later once we've watched and 268 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 3: read the content. So first a bit of shock. It's 269 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 3: only happened once or twice, and it's out of more 270 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,959 Speaker 3: out of respect everyone's time, versus like trying to put 271 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 3: anybody down. 272 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 4: That's more the thing. Everyone's very mindful of. 273 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 3: It, even when when like, oh we've got we've finished everything, 274 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 3: need to talk about coolly. Everyone gets him in the 275 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:01,839 Speaker 3: day back. We don't need to do the labor on 276 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 3: points for any longer. Like everyone's busy. So that's more 277 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 3: what it's about. 278 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: How do you make those rules for meetings. 279 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 2: Actually stick throughout a company that employs several hundred people. 280 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 3: It's often we need to probably do some reminders, so 281 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 3: leading by example, so the people running meetings, all the 282 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 3: things we kind of touched on before around like having 283 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 3: purpose and agendas and action items and you know, also 284 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 3: you know, not just like some people actually free to 285 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 3: meet to just spot something in their calendars, but then 286 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 3: it's reminders with the leadership team and even even people managers. 287 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 3: Is hey, guys, just remind on how we want to 288 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 3: run meetings here to be efficient effective. Here's the notion 289 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 3: page with how it all works. We might when we 290 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 3: have a people manager's meeting, it might literally be that 291 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 3: like just a reminder, here's our meeting etiquette, here's how 292 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 3: we roll it out. Any other feedback you think we 293 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 3: should be tweaking or welcome, but these are the six 294 00:14:58,280 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 3: principles from now that we work with and just remind 295 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 3: many people. Because the team's growing, stuff happens all the time, 296 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 3: you need to keep reiterating ways of working and just 297 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 3: pulling people up on things. 298 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 4: It's not being about being told off. 299 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 3: It's just like this is for the better, you know, 300 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 3: best best for everybody. Kind of kind of similar to 301 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 3: how when you're talking about the why behind why you're 302 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 3: making decisions and product releases, and even though you think 303 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 3: you've said it or like, hey, it lives in notion, 304 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 3: people should just read it. It's like people are busy 305 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 3: with their days and got stuff to do, so that 306 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 3: constant beat of communication is required. 307 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 2: Now I've heard that you don't take meetings on Mondays. 308 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 2: Can you tell me about what led to that decision 309 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 2: and also what do you do on Mondays if you've 310 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 2: got no meetings to go to. 311 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been it's been a new thing we've been 312 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 3: doing for maybe the last three or four months. And 313 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 3: the reason it came about because we through the last 314 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 3: a couple of years of growing so far asked meetings 315 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 3: was kind of dropped in wherever, and so as a 316 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 3: leadership team, we're trying to structure what day certain meetings 317 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 3: are on. And it's still not perfect. But the thing 318 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 3: that was everyone was struggling with the most was like, 319 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 3: I've got meetings spread out all through the week and 320 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 3: I can't get into any deep work or get back 321 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 3: to people properly or quickly enough. 322 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 2: And so. 323 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 3: You know, Mondays are great to not have meetings to 324 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 3: get deep work done because the US will come online 325 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 3: on a Tuesday, and so we're meetings from Tuesday to 326 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 3: Friday with US team, and so that means anything from 327 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 3: the last week, we haven't gotten to any prep work 328 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 3: we need to do for the rest of the team 329 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 3: for the week. Anything like that can just be all 330 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 3: done on a Monday, and you get ahead, you actually 331 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 3: get deep work done and get get into the zone. 332 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 3: So there's still some meetings that might creep in if 333 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 3: need be, because you know, you might make a decision 334 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 3: on something, or maybe there's an interview that needs to happen. 335 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 3: Because because we're getting we're getting towards the end of 336 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 3: a process, so those might creep in. But the most part, 337 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 3: we try and have a meeting free day, particularly leadership 338 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 3: team level, so that you know the team can get 339 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 3: what they need from us. But also you know, we've 340 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 3: we've got such a flexible work culture linktree where we 341 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 3: have the flex Benefits program. Everyone get six thousand dollars 342 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 3: a year to spend on things that matter to them, 343 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 3: as opposed to this like global you know, hey, we're 344 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 3: going to give everyone a health program or everyone gets 345 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 3: a gym membership, or just dictating what we think people want. 346 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 3: That money goes towards things that matter to them in 347 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 3: the pillars of like growth or lifestyle or learning, and 348 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 3: so some people want to spend it on short courses, 349 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 3: otherwise on exercise programs, and so by encouraging flexible work 350 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 3: culture and people using their benefits for things that suit them, 351 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 3: mondays like I might go to a polities class at 352 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 3: eleven o'clock and that's okay, and I'll put that in 353 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 3: my calendars. People know, hey, am it polarates between eleven 354 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 3: and twelve, But I'll get back to you late. I 355 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 3: even on a third and when I'm going to heap 356 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:58,679 Speaker 3: of meetings and just having building that culture within the 357 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 3: team starts from the leadership level and that that's okay 358 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 3: to do because you're measured on the work and the output. 359 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 4: So I know that's along. We didn answer to talk about. 360 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 3: Mondays, but that sort of sets up the rest of 361 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 3: the week with everything else that we're kind of building 362 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 3: cultural wise and how we get stuff done. 363 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 4: It's working. 364 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 2: So tell me about your Mondays. What would a typical 365 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 2: Monday look like for you? 366 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 4: So typical Monday starts like every day. 367 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 3: I've got nearly two year old twins, so they wake 368 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 3: at about five thirty in the morning. 369 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 4: Five five thirty in the morning, So no matter. 370 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 3: What day it is, that's that's just like that's the 371 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 3: that's the alarm clock is then waking up, which is awesome. 372 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 4: In that they're so happy in the mornings if they've 373 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 4: had a decent sleep. 374 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 3: So there's getting to you know, hang out and play 375 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 3: with them. But it's a bit of a bit of 376 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 3: a scramble sometimes to get to that first meeting, and 377 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 3: luckily on Monday there is in a first meeting at 378 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 3: seven to seven thirty, so it's just about getting them 379 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 3: to daycare on time on so a bit of time 380 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 3: with them in the mornings, you know, having breakfast with them, 381 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 3: getting them to daycare. It's a nice way to start 382 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 3: the week as well, because the rest of the week 383 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 3: is quite rushed in the morning, so trying to take 384 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 3: the time to spend with them on Monday morning is 385 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 3: really nice. And then from there it's I'll actually go 386 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 3: and take myself and have a coffee somewhere and bring 387 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 3: my laptop and just to get work from I work 388 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,439 Speaker 3: from home most days of the week, so getting out 389 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 3: of the house is a key thing no matter what day, 390 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 3: at least once a day, so I'll just in a 391 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 3: coffee shop with my laptop and just get on top 392 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 3: of the week, get on top of some work. And 393 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 3: that's sort of the start for the first couple of hours, 394 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 3: which is just sets up nicely. Then you kind of 395 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 3: come back home and get in the zone on deep work. 396 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 2: We will be back with Anthony soon talking about his tricks, 397 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 2: but getting into flow when he does deep work and 398 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 2: how he has managed to stay present as a dad, 399 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 2: juggling two year old twins and running a billion dollar 400 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 2: tech business. If you're looking for more tips to improve 401 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 2: the way that you work, I write a short fortnightly 402 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 2: newsletter that contains three cool things that I've discovered that 403 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 2: helped me work better, ranging from software and gadgets that 404 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 2: I'm loving through the interesting research findings. You can sign 405 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 2: up for that at Howiwork dot code. That's how I 406 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 2: Work dot co. How do you get into flow when 407 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 2: you know that you've got some deep work to do. 408 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 3: This is a hard one because this nature of like 409 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,360 Speaker 3: and trying to pull yourself out of this nature of 410 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 3: being busy and reactive is productive, which is not and 411 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 3: you feel productive. He's like, Oh, I'm just replying to 412 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 3: a sluck, gett into an email, getting back to this thing, 413 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 3: or like making some comments on something that don't really 414 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 3: need to but I feel productive because I'm contributing. It's like, actually, 415 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 3: it's not productive at all. I'm just trying to pull 416 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 3: yourself out of that is. It's been a really big 417 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 3: learning of the last couple of year as well, because 418 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 3: I think previously running early days of Linterin even previously 419 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 3: running digital agency, you're kind of having to be all 420 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 3: things to all people and the jack of all trades, 421 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 3: and now it can be a bit more specialist. So 422 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 3: that's deep work thing is something we're really trying to 423 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 3: focus on. For me, it is just writing a list 424 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 3: of like the three things I might need to do 425 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 3: today and noise canceling headphones is the biggest thing for 426 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:23,360 Speaker 3: me Like. 427 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: That. 428 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 3: I just find if I'm procrastinating a little bit and 429 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 3: trying to figure out what do I work on? 430 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 4: There's so many things. What's the priority? I've got an 431 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 4: hour to do it. 432 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 3: I know it's I know other people have this or that, 433 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 3: but for me, just putting their headphones on, putting noise 434 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 3: canceling and some music of some sort, I'll just lock 435 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 3: in and can get through that. If that is just 436 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 3: replying to some emails, that is just like responding to 437 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 3: giving feedback on a bunch of stuff that's sitting there 438 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 3: on a project that I need to feedback on to 439 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 3: unlock others. I find I can just do that as 440 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 3: soon as the headphones are on and I've had coffee 441 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 3: and I've you know, maybe had a bit of a 442 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 3: morning stretch as well. 443 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 2: Do you have go to music or do you have 444 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 2: a song on repeat? What's your approach to music during 445 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 2: deep work. 446 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 4: Depends on what I need to get done. If you 447 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 4: do some reading, then it's no music with no lyrics. 448 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 3: But and it might be just some electronic music that 449 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 3: is just pretty, just a nice beat, semi monotonous but 450 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 3: enough you can just give you a bit of energy. 451 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,360 Speaker 3: But if its stuff I don't need to be reading 452 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,719 Speaker 3: at the same time, I'll probably go I'll probably go 453 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 3: something else a little more aggressive. It has guitars in it. 454 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 3: This gets you a bit more amped up. But it 455 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,479 Speaker 3: kind of varies. Like I've been known to put on 456 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 3: you know, the best of opera soundtracks on Spotify, because 457 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 3: like some of the like the the builds and the 458 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,120 Speaker 3: momentum in it is like it actually. 459 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 4: I don't know. 460 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,199 Speaker 3: It's like a bit of movement in the passion of 461 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 3: it that you go, yes, I'm getting this stuff done, 462 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 3: and this big opera moment is like so euphorik, I'm 463 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 3: with this. 464 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 2: I've definitely heard the music thing from a few guests 465 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 2: now I know. Matt Mullenweg, co founder of WordPress and Automatic, 466 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 2: He's big on listening to a song on repeat, as 467 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 2: is Kevin Kelly, co founder of Wired, and I recently 468 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 2: interviewed Brian Koppleman, who's the showrunner of Billions, among other things, 469 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 2: and he was saying how he will always write scenes 470 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 2: and dialogue to music, and often it will be the 471 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 2: music that is in the background and is quite instrumental 472 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 2: to that scene, which I thought, wow, that's quite stunning. 473 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 2: So it just reminded me of that when you mentioned 474 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 2: the Best of Opera, which is very interesting. Now, noise 475 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 2: canceling headphones very important tool. What are some other tools 476 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 2: that you find really important, whether they be software or 477 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 2: hardware for being productive? 478 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we've toyed with a few over the years. 479 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 4: And I used to be a bit more of. 480 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 3: Like a productivity junkie. You're trying to find the latest 481 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 3: to do list, task manager every month, you know that 482 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 3: something came. Now I'm just like I just you know, 483 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 3: even getting that set up takes a while getting into 484 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 3: a routine rhythm with it. So it's for me, it's 485 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 3: it's I use a sigh enough to list all projects 486 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 3: and project management notion we use we use that collaboratively 487 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 3: at link Tree as a whole, but I use it 488 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 3: for some personal stuff as well. The other two would 489 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:26,400 Speaker 3: be Mirror, the virtual whiteboarding tool. You can build out 490 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,199 Speaker 3: wireframes and all sorts of it's fantastic. We use it 491 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 3: across the business as well to share you know, brainstorming 492 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 3: or how things come to life and loom, which is fantastic. 493 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 3: I think I touched on it before. The video recording tool. 494 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 3: So Chrome plug in. If I need to send a 495 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 3: note to somebody, you'll explain something, talk through a presentation, 496 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 3: you know, hit the Chrome plug in, start talking, spend 497 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 3: two or three minutes explaining, giving context, share that embedded 498 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 3: either in a notion, in a slight message, whatever, and 499 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 3: people can watch or listen to that, you know, onto speed, 500 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 3: so it gets through it very quickly. And yeah, we 501 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 3: do that for the I do that personally, but also 502 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 3: across the business, you know, we do that even when 503 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 3: we're collaborating with agencies or contractors. 504 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 4: We'll use that way of working. 505 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 3: So and then my email, I use Superhuman for email 506 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,400 Speaker 3: as my email tool, which is a great no distractions, 507 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 3: The send later tools amazing, the shortcuts you be able 508 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 3: to have to use your mouse with it. 509 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 4: It's yeah, it's awesome. 510 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to dig into Superhuman. I'm always curious 511 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 2: when I meet fellow Superhuman users. I've been such a 512 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 2: fan of that software for probably a couple of years. Now. 513 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 2: What are some of the ways that you use Superhuman? 514 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 2: You mentioned a couple of things there in terms of 515 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 2: the send later function where you can write an email 516 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 2: and then program it to be sent later, and knowing 517 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 2: the keyboard shortcuts, I find is just good practice for 518 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 2: every piece of software that you use. And funnily enough, 519 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 2: when I interviewed Rahul Vora, who's the founder of super Human, 520 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 2: he said that is one of his biggest productivity hacks, 521 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 2: just learning keyboard shortcuts because it's far quicker than relying 522 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 2: on your mouse. So what else do you do in 523 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 2: Superhuman and how you use email? Because chances are there 524 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 2: might be a you know, a Gmail or an Outlook equivalent. 525 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 2: So what else do you do with Superhuman? 526 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 4: For me, it is the shortcuts to the probably the 527 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:25,880 Speaker 4: biggest one. 528 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,919 Speaker 3: They've got a I know they've got a like the 529 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 3: calendar integration is also a great one. Immediately as soon 530 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 3: as I can just type in Thursday, for example, it'll 531 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 3: come up with what's tapping on Thursday, and I can 532 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 3: just see that what is free and what isn't straight 533 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 3: away is also the biggest thing for me. I think 534 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 3: I think I use to send later one the most. 535 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 3: I don't know why. I think it's knowing when I 536 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 3: want emails to land for people at certain times, particularly 537 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 3: if I'm working over the weekend, and one I don't 538 00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:59,959 Speaker 3: want I don't want to. You know, teams don't need 539 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 3: seat on a weekend. Even though you slack for a 540 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 3: lot of things, somethings are an email if you with 541 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 3: outside collaborators. I think it's also knowing if you're emailing 542 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 3: somebody in the US, you wanted to land in their 543 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 3: morning versus their evening. So at the top of mind, 544 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 3: I'll use that quite often and I find that quite 545 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 3: effective and it helps a lot as well. 546 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,239 Speaker 2: You mentioned that you have two year old twins. I 547 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 2: remember I've got an eight year old daughter, and I 548 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 2: remember when she was three months old, I took her 549 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 2: to sleep School and there were there was one set 550 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 2: of twins at sleep School, and I just remember thinking. 551 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 1: I don't know how that mum is functioning right now. 552 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 2: And so your twins are two years old. How do 553 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 2: you balance running such a high growth company where you're 554 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 2: the chief commercial officer with having two tiny people that 555 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 2: cannot fend for themselves, yet how do you stay present 556 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 2: as a dad? 557 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 4: It has been the biggest. 558 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 3: Throw yourself in a deepened thing over the last couple 559 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 3: of years. And I mean, if you talk about faking 560 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 3: it till you make it, learning how to be a 561 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 3: dad is probably one thing, a little bit just. 562 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 4: Figuring it out as you go. It's like, I can 563 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 4: do this, I can do this. I'm the best dad 564 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 4: there is. I've got this, But. 565 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 3: It is it Being present has been like what I've 566 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 3: been trying to focus on the last few months. I 567 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 3: think the first year of their life has been was 568 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 3: very tricky. Firstly, I have the most amazing wife and 569 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 3: co parent, and you know, we're very much just in 570 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 3: it together. It is right, who's doing what? How are 571 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 3: we getting through the morning the day? 572 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 4: Who's taking them? There's taking them? 573 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 3: Where? Being twins, especially until they could even walk, you can't. 574 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:48,479 Speaker 4: You couldn't. 575 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 3: Really a lot of things involve two people, right. It 576 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 3: wasn't like you just take them to that spot and 577 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 3: deal with it. It was like, oh no, taking them 578 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 3: taking two babies to the car. I can't even walk? 579 00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 3: How do I do this without leaving one in the 580 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 3: car then or taking money into taking you know, we 581 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 3: go into the shops without what It's like this whole 582 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 3: mind band of everything involves two people. So being very 583 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 3: deliberate about like you know, making time for that for them. 584 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 3: The morning's a big part of just being focused and present. 585 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 3: I think now is there's such little sponges that you 586 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 3: talk about. 587 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 4: The sleep thing. 588 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 3: We've gone through so many different versions of sleep training 589 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 3: and it's still not working. 590 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 4: And it's like. 591 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 3: Oh man, it's like I don't know if we're ever 592 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 3: going to get there. We're just resigned to not you know, 593 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 3: getting great sleep. But we A big thing was, seriously, 594 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 3: now that they're they're starting to be chatty and they're 595 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 3: more present and acknowledging us even more, is this like 596 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 3: emotional connection thing with them, we really need to make 597 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 3: sure we've got and so because we know that will 598 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,959 Speaker 3: help through the night and if if we're so like 599 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 3: some mornings would be so distracted because you know, like 600 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 3: on a morning when the US is online, sometimes we'd 601 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 3: wake up both both Katie and I I like cool, 602 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 3: holy shit, I got this stuff that's just happened overnight 603 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 3: I've got to deal with it. Can you deal with 604 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 3: the boys for a second and then I'll take them 605 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 3: and then you go shower. 606 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 4: Then I'll do this, and you do that. Who's got it? 607 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 4: First call this morning? 608 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 3: Just like chaos when the days start like that, and 609 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 3: then continue in the evening through dinner time and all 610 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 3: that stuff that like we're not we're not being the 611 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 3: best parents for them, we're not showing up, and you 612 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 3: can just see it just in their behavior. They're rattled, 613 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 3: they're trying to play up to get our attention and 614 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 3: ultimately in their sleep, so really being delivered about just 615 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 3: eye contact. We've even started doing a bit of one 616 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 3: on one time now so because it's you know, both 617 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 3: want both of our attention. That on weekend, just started 618 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 3: doing one of us will take one one of the 619 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 3: boys each and just go for a coffee, you go 620 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 3: for a walk with them, so just get really really 621 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 3: great bonding time. 622 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 4: And that's we found that to be really helpful as well. 623 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 3: But you know, it's definitely a dayly challenge, and it's 624 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 3: when they're when they're being like in the morning, they're 625 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 3: so amazing. It's such a good remind that just be 626 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 3: like you know, first thing I uld always do, get 627 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 3: out my phone, like cord I need to do today? 628 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 3: Who's responds to stuff overnight? 629 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 2: Now? 630 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 3: And just trying to avoid that and just be present 631 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 3: with them for the first sort of half hour so 632 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 3: and then get stuck into it. 633 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 2: And do you and Katie have any like rituals or 634 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 2: routines in terms of checking in and checking in about 635 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 2: you know, how you're going, like balancing parenting with you know, 636 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 2: running like such, like you know, a growth driven business. 637 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 4: We are. 638 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 3: We kind of often joke that will sometimes discover with 639 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 3: each others the others doing via other people, so we 640 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 3: might be in in a group conversations like oh I'm 641 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 3: doing this thing on Sunday's like really. 642 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 4: What like oh we should we should talk? 643 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 3: So there's just yeah, we're trying to get better at it, 644 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 3: but it's often just like everything, so like you know, 645 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 3: deadline and driven either with work or even sometimes with 646 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 3: the boys, get them here on time through that and 647 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 3: you know, you almost crash into bed at nine o'clock 648 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 3: and then be like, hey, so how you doing, how's 649 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 3: your day? 650 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 4: What's what's happened? 651 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,719 Speaker 3: Fairly even spoken to you that hasn't been logistics related, 652 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 3: So yes, we try to get better that at least, 653 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 3: you know, a couple of times a week, or having 654 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 3: a date night at least once a week where it 655 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 3: is just like a you know, decompress, have a glass 656 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 3: of wine. 657 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 2: And finally, Anthony, for people that want to connect with 658 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 2: you and connect with link Tree, what is the best 659 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 2: way for people. 660 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 3: To do that? 661 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 4: For sure? 662 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 3: So link Tree just our website for me, it's it's 663 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 3: my link tree. Hand is link tree slash anzac A 664 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 3: and zac or my LinkedIn. You can search me on there. 665 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: Fantastic, Anthony. 666 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 2: I have loved chatting to you as someone that has 667 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 2: created a product that I use in my own social media. 668 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 2: So thank you for what you've brought to the world. 669 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 2: And it's just been so fascinating to learn more about 670 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 2: how you work. 671 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: So thank you for your time. 672 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 4: Of course, thank you so much for having me. 673 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 2: Something I found almost encouraging about talking to Anthony is 674 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 2: that he doesn't claim to have all the answers, and 675 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 2: despite running a billion dollar business, he's still figuring it out, 676 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 2: often by trial and error, like the rest of us, 677 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 2: when it comes to his approach to work, marriage, and parenting. 678 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 2: How I Work is produced by inventingum with production support 679 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 2: from Dead Set Studios. 680 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: The producer for this episode was. 681 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 2: Liam Riordan, and thank you to mat Nimba who does 682 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 2: the audio mix for every episode and makes everything sound 683 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 2: so much better than it would have otherwise. 684 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: See you next time.