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Speaker 1: Jonesy and Amanda's Well.

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Speaker 2: Yesterday, our Prime Minister claimed he didn't know about horrific

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Speaker 2: rape allegations at Parliament House. This is something that happened

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Speaker 2: two years ago, he said. His wife Jenny urged him

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Speaker 2: to make some changes and really counseled him on how

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Speaker 2: he should respond to the news that a young woman

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Speaker 2: had been allegedly violated at Parliament House. It was very

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Speaker 2: interested when I was listening yesterday to Peter Van Onnsalin's podcast,

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Speaker 2: Professor and the Hack. He does this with Hugh Rimington.

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Speaker 2: He's Channel ten's network, Channel ten's political editor, and he

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Speaker 2: had some really fabulous insights. So Peter, good morning, Good

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Speaker 2: morning Pete.

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Speaker 3: Just before we get into this is what scomo said.

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Speaker 4: Jenny and I spoke last night and she said to me,

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Speaker 4: you have to think about this as a father first,

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Speaker 4: what would you want to happen if it were our girls.

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Speaker 4: Jenny has a way of clarifying things, always has.

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Speaker 2: Well, Peter, there's a lot of discussion about but does

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Speaker 2: our Prime minister lack an empathy Gene that he can

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Speaker 2: only understand what this must be like if he imagine

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Speaker 2: it's his own daughters.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I don't doubt that his conversation with his

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Speaker 1: wife amplified his realization about this. But a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: I think understandably, are wondering why it took that, And

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Speaker 1: our reporter at ten T and George follow that up

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Speaker 1: with a really good question, She said, shouldn't you, as

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Speaker 1: a human being, have already realized that the previous day,

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Speaker 1: particularly is a leader. There's no doubt that a lot

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Speaker 1: of men think about things more cogently because of the

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Speaker 1: experiences that their wives might have gone through, who they

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Speaker 1: talked to them about, or their daughters might now be facing.

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Speaker 1: But you like to think, particularly on something as serious

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Speaker 1: as this we're talking about alleged sexual assault here, that

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Speaker 1: that is an issue that you don't need that perspective

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Speaker 1: to be able to realize what's going on. And the

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Speaker 1: fact that it didn't happen until a day later is

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Speaker 1: the reason and the way the Prime Minister worded it

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Speaker 1: is the reason that a lot of people were just

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Speaker 1: shaking their heads at that response. I think he thought

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Speaker 1: it was a good marketing tool to talk about his

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Speaker 1: conversation with his wife and his daughters. He often leans

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Speaker 1: in on his relationship with his children and his wife

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Speaker 1: to try to soften his exterior. But on this occasion

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Speaker 1: I think at backfight.

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Speaker 3: It's almost gone a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Eddie maguire, Yeah, I think that's right. It's one of

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Speaker 1: those things where it's a marketing technique that has worked

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Speaker 1: for him. You've got to remember, of course he was

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Speaker 1: the Immigration Minister doing a really hard end pointy end

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Speaker 1: things around asylum s because so then when he transitioned

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Speaker 1: to become in prime minister, he had a stints treasurer

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Speaker 1: between he was trying to soften his image and going

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Speaker 1: back to the campaign, the way that he had his

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Speaker 1: mother on stage, they had the campaign launched on Mother's Day.

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Speaker 1: He really has leaned in on those relationships with women

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Speaker 1: in his own family, and of course it's also partly

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Speaker 1: offset the fact that we know that there aren't enough

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Speaker 1: women in the ranks of the Parliamentary Liberal Party either.

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Speaker 2: Well, it does seem to have been very badly handled.

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Speaker 2: I was interested to hear you say that Parliament House

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Speaker 2: doesn't even have an HR department, so the politicians themselves

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Speaker 2: have to deal with any of the fallout.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this has long been a woman in this building.

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Speaker 1: Is that political offices by definition you need because it's

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Speaker 1: so part asan if you work for a labor MP

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Speaker 1: or a liberal MP or a green you need as

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Speaker 1: a boss, as for the MP or for the minister,

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Speaker 1: you need to have employment conditions which are highly flexible

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Speaker 1: in the ability to hire and fire, because you wouldn't,

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Speaker 1: for example, want a partisan staffer to a liberal to

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Speaker 1: suddenly decide that they're a laboring in person. So I

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Speaker 1: understand that part of it, but the problem is that

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Speaker 1: has created this scenario where there haven't been what you

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Speaker 1: normally have in workplaces for human resources checks for all

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Speaker 1: manner of other issues. So it means that there's a

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Speaker 1: vulnerability there for any political staff and they are completely

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Speaker 1: beholden to their bosses in a way that you're not

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Speaker 1: in any other workplace where you can independently or at

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Speaker 1: least somewhat independently go to an HR department. We haven't

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Speaker 1: had that impartment house, and they've really avoided ever sitting

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Speaker 1: one up because both sides of politics, and you talk

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Speaker 1: to MPs, they're worried about it because they're worried that

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Speaker 1: it could somehow be leaked or abused as well. So

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Speaker 1: what they regard up until now, at least as the

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Speaker 1: lesser of evils, which is the uncertainty that it leaves

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Speaker 1: staffer's feeling because they had no recourse.

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Speaker 3: Well, surely there'd be a better solution than this poor

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Speaker 3: girl being dragged into the very officer that she was

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Speaker 3: molested in. Surely they have to be a better thing

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Speaker 3: than that.

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Speaker 1: That, to me is the most unfathomable part of this.

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Speaker 1: I know that the Defense Minister, Linda Reynolds, says that

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Speaker 1: the meeting that she had with the staffer was in

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Speaker 1: the very office that she's alleging she was raped in,

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Speaker 1: But the Minister claimed she didn't know that at the time. Now,

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Speaker 1: if she didn't know that at the time, others did

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Speaker 1: is my understanding from her office. So that's poor advice

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Speaker 1: not being delivered by senior staffers who were aware of

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Speaker 1: that to the minister just to be able to show

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Speaker 1: some modicum of decency there. I can entirely understand what

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Speaker 1: an awfully harroring situation that would have been for the

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Speaker 1: young lady in question.

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Speaker 2: But even that the Defense Minister herself was dealing with this,

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Speaker 2: there needs to be a third party who's not politically aligned.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly right, I mean, And you would hope with

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Speaker 1: what the Prime Minister is talking about with making some

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Speaker 1: adjustments that they will move to some sort of model

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Speaker 1: of an independent HR department because and I'm not I'm

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Speaker 1: here to talk about you know if you like that

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Speaker 1: what the victim has gone through. Not in any way

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Speaker 1: to defend Linda Reynolds as the minister, but to be

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Speaker 1: fair to her, she is not somebody who should have

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Speaker 1: been put in a place where she was dealing with this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was almost like when Peter Garrett got all

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Speaker 3: the grief for the people that died with the installation

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Speaker 3: of the pink bats and stuff like that. He was

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Speaker 3: just the minister.

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Speaker 1: But I guess we'll see the ministers understandably to some

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Speaker 1: extent it's not a good thing, but understandably they see

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Speaker 1: things through that partisan prison rather than anything else. And

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Speaker 1: that's what they shouldn't be doing that obviously when they're

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Speaker 1: dealing with a situation a sense, in this situation like this,

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Speaker 1: but they are politicians and that's the problem.

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Speaker 2: Well, Peter, thank you, thank you for that.

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Speaker 3: Of course, your podcast cast Professor and the Hack with

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Speaker 3: Hugh Riminton and your good self is available now. It's

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Speaker 3: great listening, Peter.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Peter, thanks, I was good to chat. Jonesy and

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Speaker 1: Amanda's Gamnation