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Speaker 1: This is the Happy Family's podcast with doctor Justin Kilson

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Speaker 1: were Luke and Susie, our husband and wife radio team

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Speaker 1: with three young boys. This is the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants some answers now.

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Speaker 2: Now Now, Justin looks like Bernard Saltz trying to take

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Speaker 2: a gig and become a parenting expert. He's made some

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Speaker 2: comments recently when it comes to old school parenting that

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Speaker 2: maybe you're not quite in agreeance with.

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Speaker 3: This is one of the challenges where somebody knows a

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Speaker 3: bit about something, and obviously Bernard seems to know what

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Speaker 3: he's talking about demographically pretty well, and then they start

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Speaker 3: to think that they know heaps about other things and

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean Bernard salt He wrote this

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Speaker 3: article in the Weekend Australian a couple of weeks ago.

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Speaker 3: And what was he saying? Something like, once upon a

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Speaker 3: time children were slapped by their parents in public and

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Speaker 3: the parents were not ashamed at all, and in fact,

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Speaker 3: this is what's missing from today's society. Was essentially his argument.

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Speaker 3: We need to be we need to be backing our

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Speaker 3: kids and telling them who's the boss and being a

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Speaker 3: lot less ashamed of our old school parenting than we.

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Speaker 2: Got I got blanted, and I turned out just fine.

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Speaker 2: Is the kind of line.

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Speaker 3: That's what we hear all the time. And I keep

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Speaker 3: on thinking every time I hear somebody say that instead

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Speaker 3: of saying that we turned out well in spite of

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Speaker 3: the bad things, wouldn't it be great if our children

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Speaker 3: grew up feeling that they turned out well because of

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Speaker 3: the way they were parented, rather than in spite of

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Speaker 3: the way they were parenting. It's almost like there's an

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Speaker 3: acknowledgment when we say that that, yeah, look, it's not ideal,

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Speaker 3: it's not what'supposed to happen, but I turned out okay,

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Speaker 3: instead of that. Ironically, parents who were hit are significantly

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Speaker 3: more likely to hit their own kids as well, So

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Speaker 3: I might argue that perhaps we didn't turn out so

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Speaker 3: well after all if we think that's okay.

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Speaker 2: So this is a big debate, and like we've had

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Speaker 2: award winning TV shows around the issues of this with

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Speaker 2: the slap and it polarizes so many people in our society.

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Speaker 2: We understand that discipline is important, but how the discipline

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Speaker 2: happens is is where the I guess massive disagreements come

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Speaker 2: in super Nanny back to the forefront where she used

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Speaker 2: the naughty corner instead of any sort of physical discipline,

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Speaker 2: and everyone started talking about what was not acceptible behavior,

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Speaker 2: justin if we're not going to smack, and clearly you're

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Speaker 2: in that side of the camp, how do we discipline

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Speaker 2: our children?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think we've got to get back to the

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Speaker 3: root of the word discipline. I mean, discipline does not

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Speaker 3: mean punish. If you look up the two words of

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Speaker 3: the dictionary, what you'll find is that punishment means to

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Speaker 3: hurt someone because you don't like what they've done. A

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Speaker 3: person with high power does something horrible to a person

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Speaker 3: with low power because they don't like what that person did.

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Speaker 3: That's what punishment is. It's hurting our kids because we do,

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Speaker 3: and we're doing it because we want them to learn

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Speaker 3: a lesson. But the lessons that they learn that the

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Speaker 3: big people don't care, that you can get whatever you

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Speaker 3: want so long as you're big, that you should push

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Speaker 3: smaller people around. And by the way, we actually make

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Speaker 3: our kids more selfish when we focus on punishment, whether

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Speaker 3: it's smacking or time out or withdrawal of privileges or

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Speaker 3: any of those other things. Because when our kids do

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Speaker 3: the wrong thing. We want them to think about how

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Speaker 3: their behavior has impacted on everybody else. But when we

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Speaker 3: punish them, they only think about themselves, and so we

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Speaker 3: actually we damage our relationships. There are no good things

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Speaker 3: that really come from punishment. But if you look up

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Speaker 3: the word discipline in the dictionary, it says to teach,

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Speaker 3: or to guide, or to instruct. In other words, punishment

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Speaker 3: means we do things to our kids. Discipline means we

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Speaker 3: work with them.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Justin Coulson is our guest today as we explore

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Speaker 1: this whole realm of spanking children and punishing them with

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Speaker 1: physical harm. We're going to be talking more about that next,

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Speaker 1: bringing out a little verse that's been thrown many a

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Speaker 1: time when it comes to spanking children. More on that next.

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Speaker 4: Family life is pretty tough going sometimes, Most days are

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Speaker 4: a struggle between strong willed children and frazzled pairs. And

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Speaker 4: while no parent wakes up in the morning saying today's

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Speaker 4: the day I'm going to ruin everyone's lives, it sometimes

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Speaker 4: feels like that by the end of the day. Twenty

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Speaker 4: one Days to a Happier Family is the number one

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Speaker 4: parenting book by doctor Justin Coulson for parents who want

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Speaker 4: their kids to be better, themselves, to be calmer, and

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Speaker 4: their family to be happier now. The book is also

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Speaker 4: available as an online video course. In the program, you'll

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Speaker 4: find specific strategies to help you be at your best,

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Speaker 4: evidence based ideas to strengthen your relationship with your children,

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Speaker 4: research proven practices to improve understanding between you and your child,

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Speaker 4: discipline strategies that work because they're about discipline and not punishment,

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Speaker 4: and more tips to make your family happier. And as

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Speaker 4: a special offer only for podcast business, use the code

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Speaker 4: podcast at check out for a massive fifty dollars, saving

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Speaker 4: twenty one days to a happier family. The online video

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Speaker 4: course by doctor Justin Coulson Get it now from Happy

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Speaker 4: Families dot com dot au.

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Speaker 2: This is the Happy Family's podcast with doctor Justin Coulson.

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Speaker 1: And Doctor Justin and we're talking about Bernard Salt's comments

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Speaker 1: when it comes to spanking children. He's come out saying

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Speaker 1: that it's something that needs to happen a little bit more.

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Speaker 1: You're of the opposite opinion to this, So let's throw

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Speaker 1: at you something that sometimes gets thrown around as a

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Speaker 1: reason why we should spank our children. And that's a

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Speaker 1: little verse that says something along the lines of spare

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Speaker 1: the rod and spoil the child.

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Speaker 3: Did you know you might have a hard time. Let

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Speaker 3: me ask you, do you know where you can find

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Speaker 3: that in the Bible?

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Speaker 4: I have no idea.

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Speaker 3: It's not in the Bible. It actually doesn't exist there. Really,

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Speaker 3: it's not there. There is no such verse as spare

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Speaker 3: the rod, spoil the child.

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Speaker 4: There is.

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Speaker 3: Written words around chasing our children and who the father,

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Speaker 3: the father loves, who he chases or chases who he loves,

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Speaker 3: and there is some talk about rods. But interestingly, when

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Speaker 3: the rods are spoken about in I think it's in

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Speaker 3: Psalms or Proverbs or whatever.

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Speaker 2: It might be twenty four of.

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Speaker 3: Great Great And what does that say exactly?

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Speaker 2: He says, whoever spares the rod hates their children, but

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Speaker 2: the one who loves their children is careful to discipline

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Speaker 2: them great.

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Speaker 3: Now, notice there that the focus is on being careful

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Speaker 3: to discipline. And you'll also note that when it talks

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Speaker 3: about rod, there's a range of different meanings of rod.

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Speaker 3: And in this particular case, I've gone on research this

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Speaker 3: and it's actually focusing on the kind of rod that

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Speaker 3: a shepherd uses. Now, can you think about what a

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Speaker 3: shepherd uses a rod.

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Speaker 2: For okay, it's to guide his sheep.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, to guide.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: You've never seen a shepherd using a rod to whack

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Speaker 3: his sheep across the back of the legs, or over

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Speaker 3: the back or on the head. He uses it to

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Speaker 3: guide his sheep. And all of a sudden, we see

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Speaker 3: this loving shepherd guiding his sheep with the rod. In

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Speaker 3: other words, he's disciplining them or teaching them or leading

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Speaker 3: them down the right path. And punishment is completely different.

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Speaker 3: It's such a different thing. Discipline is about using our

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Speaker 3: rod to guide and to strike and to help. It's

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Speaker 3: such a different paradigm. And that is how we train

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Speaker 3: our children up in the way they should go, so

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Speaker 3: that when they're old they won't to part from it.

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Speaker 1: I love, I love love that you've brought out in

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Speaker 1: this discussion the difference between punishment and discipline, and that

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Speaker 1: our role as parents isn't just to be these maniacal

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Speaker 1: punishers of our children, getting them every time they do

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Speaker 1: something wrong, but steering them hopefully in a direction that

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Speaker 1: guides them to not be doing something wrong all the time.

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Speaker 1: It's a beautiful distinction.

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Speaker 2: Pretty confronting. Although we are getting messages from some sheep farmers.

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Speaker 2: Justin to say, I saw a shepherd hit a sheep

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Speaker 2: with the rid once and the sheep turned out just fine.

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Speaker 4: But that's another that's another topic. All agether.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Justin Coolslan from Happy families dot com, todate you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for bringing this kind of new

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Speaker 1: perspective to this idea of discipline today. We really appreciate it.

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Speaker 3: Great to talk to you.

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Speaker 1: And of course there are loads of resources available, lots

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Speaker 1: of information, books, podcasts, and programs. You can find them

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Speaker 1: all that happyfamilies dot com dot au. But if listening

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Speaker 1: to doctor Justin Coulson makes you think that people in

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Speaker 1: your organization or school could benefit from hearing him as well,

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Speaker 1: you can find out how to have Justin speak for

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Speaker 1: your school or organization at Justinculson dot com