1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: We know that today and yesterday as well, the Senate 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: hearings into the middle Arm development precinct, well, they are 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: indeed underway. Yesterday we've spoken to a doctor, a pediatrician 4 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: who'd raised some concerns about what they say could be 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: health impacts if middle Arm is indeed developed. And we 6 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: also saw some doctors and nurses on the steps of 7 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: Parliament House just a couple of days ago raising those concerns. 8 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 2: But it sort of seems like one group may. 9 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: Have been forgotten, I guess from the Senate inquiry or hearings. 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: And the Australian Energy Producers Director David Slammer joins me 11 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: in the studio right now. 12 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 2: Good morning to you. 13 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 3: David, morning Katie. 14 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:45,279 Speaker 2: Will you guys invite it? 15 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:45,639 Speaker 3: No? 16 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 2: Why not? 17 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 3: Absolutely not. In fact, we try to invite ourselves several 18 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 3: times and being bumped. I was told that industry is 19 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 3: not required at these hearings. And I do know also 20 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 3: that a couple of members of our members, being a 21 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 3: gas industry proponents here in the territory, also they couple 22 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 3: of been invited, some weren't, but those that were invited 23 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 3: were then subsequently uninvited. And I've got the text here 24 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 3: they were bumped and replaced by others like possibly locked 25 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 3: the Gates and activist groups. 26 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: So I don't understand why, because you know, presumably when 27 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: you have an inquiry like this, the Senate inquiry, you 28 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: want to hear from all you know, from all stakeholders 29 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: and all concerned Like I know, for me on the show, 30 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: I'm very very firm on I might not agree with 31 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: everybody's opinion, but I think you need to make sure 32 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: that you have those opinions heard. 33 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 2: So I can't understand why they wouldn't invite you guys. 34 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 3: Well, I'm baffled. I'm baffled. I do think that there 35 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 3: might be another hearing, as I'm told in Canberra a 36 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 3: little bit later on. And that's great where we do 37 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 3: hearings in Cambra all the time, but they're away from Darwin, 38 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 3: they're away from the territory. What was important to us 39 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 3: in our industry and we appreciate the Senate coming to 40 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 3: Darwin and having the hearing in Darwen. We thought that 41 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 3: was a really good thing. But for the industry to 42 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 3: not have a part at the table, to offer a 43 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 3: balanced view, to offer the other side, and you know 44 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 3: you talked about nurses at Parliament House, and now I've 45 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 3: got family in hospital at the moment. Dart Hospital of 46 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 3: Darwin has gone into Code yellow, and we've got nurses 47 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 3: out here on the steps of parliament Ours getting involved 48 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 3: in an industry they actually don't know enough about. They 49 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 3: don't have the facts, sadly to say. And I think 50 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 3: that what's happening here is said a quite dangerous precedent. 51 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 3: We've had CSRO, we've had studies, We've had over two 52 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 3: hundred engineering studies and health studies done to say that 53 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 3: all the technology that's going to be used in the 54 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 3: development of middle arm is not nineteen sixties or nineteen seventies. 55 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 3: We've moved on in twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four. 56 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 3: There's some really safe, good technologies available and we're developing 57 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 3: with those. And the government wouldn't approve the EPA, wouldn't 58 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 3: approve any project that has harmful emissions. No one goes 59 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 3: out to build a project to kill people. 60 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: Well, I would bloody hope not. You know, that's the thing, 61 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: And I guess you know. The point I suppose for 62 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: me that I feel like gets lost quite often is 63 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: that you know, we all understand that we are trying 64 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: to go very green and we're trying to change the 65 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: way that we you know that we that we get 66 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: our energy in Australia. But gas is part of that 67 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: discussion as well, and it does sort of need to 68 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: be part of that discussion. I suppose the concern that's 69 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: being raised by you know, by some groups, and I'm 70 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: sure it's being heard at these at the Senate's inquiry 71 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: or the Senate hearings throughout this week, is that they're 72 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: worried about the climate. They're worried that the development, further 73 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: development of the gas industry in the Northern Territory is 74 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: going to have an impact on people's health, health, I 75 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: should say, and in turn potentially on the health system. 76 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 2: I mean, what do you say to those people? 77 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think they're properly educated, and quite frankly, 78 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 3: I think a lot of those opinions come from years 79 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 3: of scare hungering and brainwashing from the side of politics 80 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 3: that don't want to see any development to do with 81 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 3: fossil fuel. Now, let me make one very important point 82 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 3: here in the Northern Territory, about ninety percent of electricity 83 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 3: that's made is with gas. We had the option forty 84 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 3: years ago to build a coal fired power station. Our 85 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 3: government at the time decided not to. Now, had we 86 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 3: have gone with coal, we would have been way further 87 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 3: down the track to try and get greener. We're actually 88 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 3: so much closer to where we can be to a 89 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 3: healthy environment and a carbon carbon zero zone. So we've 90 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 3: got gas now. When the sun doesn't shine and the 91 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 3: wind's wind doesn't turn the turbines, there's actually nothing else 92 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 3: in a territory that can give us electricity. So people 93 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 3: might think it's a gas barbecue, or it's a cooker 94 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 3: and a fish and chip shop, or it's a hot 95 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 3: order system on gas. Absolutely, but if you replace it 96 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 3: with electric, you're just going to need more gas to 97 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 3: make more electricity to keep our lights on. People getting 98 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 3: scared about blackouts. We've had twenty thousand homes go out 99 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 3: last month. We're going to see a lot more of this. 100 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 3: If Middle Arm doesn't come on, if the gas industry 101 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 3: doesn't maintain its investment, we are going to see a 102 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 3: severe lack of available power in the Northern Territory because 103 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 3: it's made with natural gas. 104 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: I mean, if you are able to attend those hearings today, 105 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: what would you. 106 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 3: Be saying, I'd be pointing to the fact. I'd be 107 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 3: very much pointing to the facts of the CSRO that 108 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:28,799 Speaker 3: have got an abundance of information over the years, provided 109 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 3: several studies that show that emissions can be controlled, that 110 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 3: there's no harm to body in the development of Biloo 111 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 3: Basin or the Middle arm. I'll be talking to the 112 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 3: fact that we've just gone through a Pepper inquiry that's 113 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 3: put everything on hold and said, hang on, let's do 114 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 3: a full investigation into all parts of the industry. And 115 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 3: we've come out at the other end of that with 116 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 3: one hundred and thirty odd recommendations, all of which can 117 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 3: be met safely. The work's been done, the science being done, 118 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 3: The government's done a good job. In fact, we are 119 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 3: now the most regulated government in the world world here 120 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 3: in the Northern Tier Control and Churigy. It's actually making 121 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 3: it a little bit hard for investment to come because 122 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 3: investors now need to comply with all the regulation that 123 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 3: we've got. But it's a good thing and with time 124 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 3: that'll sort of wash itself out. But we are a 125 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 3: safe place to do business and the industry is in 126 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 3: a good spot. 127 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: So tell me in terms of that Middle Arm development. 128 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: You know what would we actually see happening there from 129 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: the gas industry's perspective. 130 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 3: I can see from what I know from the gas 131 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 3: industry side, we could be seeing another gas, another plant, 132 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 3: another IMPEX if you like, or another Santas. But if 133 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 3: you look at Middle Arm, one point here, Kate, that's important. 134 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 3: We've had Conico Phillips, We've had Santas, We've had Impacts 135 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 3: for twenty five thirty years. I was on the jet 136 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 3: skis on the weekend. The dolphins are still there, the 137 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 3: barre are still going, the mangroves are still green, and 138 00:06:54,480 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 3: the precincts looking great. So to add another opponent to 139 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 3: that large area of land, it will now have access 140 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 3: possibly to renewable energy. It will have the latest technology. 141 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 3: It's going to give us a renewable gas option. And 142 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 3: renewable gas option is where we need carbon capture and storage. 143 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 3: I'll bring it up. People are hearing about it. That 144 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 3: precinct is going to allow us to actually take carbon 145 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 3: out of gas, produce renewable carbon, and pump carbon back 146 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 3: into the ground where it's come from. And that's world 147 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 3: leading technology is happening right here in Darwin. 148 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: Green groups and environmentalists have said to me on the 149 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,239 Speaker 1: show before you know, Katie, there's just not the level 150 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: of jobs that the gas industry is saying that there's 151 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: going to be. 152 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 2: Are there going to be jobs? 153 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 3: Reports that I've seen, Katie point to twenty thousand jobs. 154 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: So you reckon there's going to be twenty thousand jobs 155 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: potentially at Middle Larfine. 156 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 3: Across all industries, not just our industry. If you look 157 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 3: at industry as a precinct, as a sustainable energy precinct 158 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 3: over a period of time. The reports of red commissioned 159 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 3: by the Northern Territory government as part of their strategy, 160 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 3: was a twenty looking at twenty thousand jobs. And what 161 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 3: it's not going to be is when Impacts came to town, 162 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 3: we had ten thousand jobs straight away and it was on. 163 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,679 Speaker 3: So these you know, there's going to be development phases, 164 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 3: going to be approval phases, construction phases, geology, engineering, et cetera. 165 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 3: So they will flow through. But it is the job's 166 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,239 Speaker 3: component is absolutely key and it's going to be huge. 167 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: Now to those that are listening this morning and they're going, 168 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: why does it need to be at Middle arm, you know, 169 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: is this going to be a petrochemical hub. What is 170 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: you know, what's this going to mean for the environment. 171 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: What do you say to that? 172 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 3: Well, the petrochemical hub is a phrase that's been coined 173 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 3: by those who don't want any development, and I would 174 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 3: refrain from using that because it's actually a sustainable energy hub. 175 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 3: There's going to be solar, there's going to be manufacturing 176 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 3: with processes, renewable energy processes. So I say to people, 177 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 3: just don't listen to the minority. You know when you've 178 00:08:55,679 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 3: got that little doggie that yap's the loudest that's always heard. Well, 179 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 3: that's what's happening at the moment. But there's actually two 180 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 3: thirds of Territorians looking at the poll results on Anti 181 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 3: News the other day that are supporting this industry and 182 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 3: those who aren't are very much drifting off into a minority. 183 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: Well, David Slammer, I really appreciate your time this morning. 184 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: Of course you are the director of the Australian Energy Producers. 185 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: We really appreciate you coming in. Thank you very much 186 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 1: for having a chat with us. 187 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 3: Thanks Katie, thank you