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Speaker 1: Mom always always said be careful.

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Speaker 2: Love those alum boys.

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Speaker 1: It'll well use your head. They will tear you up

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Speaker 1: like a paper toy.

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Speaker 3: Oh no no, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah, oh no no no.

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Speaker 3: Then mis mallag you dalling.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, it's a lethal thoughts that'll bring your down, trying

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Speaker 1: to get your tipsy like god drink love drunk girls.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I'm a town. Hi am Amanda, and I'm Remby.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to.

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Speaker 3: It's it's lay. We're in a long distance friendship that

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Speaker 3: started twenty years ago when we were in high school.

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Speaker 2: We'll be talking about all things life, love, family, anything

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Speaker 2: and everything else under the sun.

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Speaker 3: Delve deeper with us because in life.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: My alias one ladies Layers, Layers, Ya is welcome back,

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Speaker 3: welcome back.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, and this is really on your mind

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Speaker 2: then you know.

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Speaker 3: I recently watched that Biggie documentary telling my I have

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Speaker 3: a story to tell or.

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Speaker 2: Something like that, and I'm waiting to see it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but he may wasn't even in this just because

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Speaker 3: they played beads, more money, more problems come in.

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Speaker 1: Out.

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Speaker 2: That's hi, bad boy By and watching that bad did

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Speaker 2: he like school to put himself in and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: you ain't even much. Let's go bado okay, really serious,

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, we just like had a huge secret.

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Speaker 3: But it is a segway because today, you know, obviously

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Speaker 3: Biggie is no longer with us.

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Speaker 2: I P.

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Speaker 3: So today we're going to be talking about actually grief

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Speaker 3: and heartbreak. You wouldn't have thought, I guess from our

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Speaker 3: intro because we are hype no.

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Speaker 2: And let's go.

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Speaker 3: Bad.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is actually not happy episode.

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Speaker 3: I think you always have to, like, you know, it's

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Speaker 3: like comedians say things laughter as like coping. You have to,

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Speaker 3: you know, And so yeah, mans.

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Speaker 2: And COVID brought a whole lot of pivotal moments like

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Speaker 2: God got got you know, things that people usually take

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Speaker 2: a while to deal with, maybe over time. You know,

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Speaker 2: you have death, You had people divorcing because they're lockdown.

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Speaker 2: You had disease. Of course, COVID itself is is a virus.

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Speaker 2: You had redundancies being offered, so people like leaving their

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Speaker 2: jobs they worked there for years. And yes, you know,

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Speaker 2: so all of this was happening and it all comes

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Speaker 2: under grief, right, creations of all facets of all your

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Speaker 2: thoughts on this from being COVID and.

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Speaker 3: I think COVID added like that extra extra layer of it.

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Speaker 3: It's like, you know, it amplified it. I don't know,

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Speaker 3: for some reason, something of an iceberg and you see,

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Speaker 3: you always see the tip right, but underneath it's like

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Speaker 3: a whole lot. And I feel like COVID is like

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Speaker 3: that whole lot that you don't realize it affects so

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Speaker 3: much more with COVID because like people have had to

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Speaker 3: you know, very loved one or not actually being able

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Speaker 3: to bury their loved ones or say or say good bye,

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Speaker 3: or kind of having to just deal with not being

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Speaker 3: laid off or not having a job but not having

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Speaker 3: your support system. You can't see your friends every day

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Speaker 3: to be like what do I do? You know, you know,

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Speaker 3: I remember times where I didn't have a job and

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Speaker 3: literally my friend and I we were both out of

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Speaker 3: work and like applying for jobs. We would meet every

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Speaker 3: other day apply for jobs together, like for a couple

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Speaker 3: of hours and then just like eat and drink coffee

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Speaker 3: and talk about like our frustrations, like you don't have

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Speaker 3: that luxury and you know, divorce. My mum was telling me, like,

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Speaker 3: especially in Zoom, there's been a lot of issues of

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Speaker 3: child abuse during COVID lockdown, you know, divorce as a result.

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Speaker 3: So it's it's just really made it feel like we're

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Speaker 3: in a hot pot, ye like just sitting in it.

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Speaker 2: And too quick, too quick, like no time for recovery.

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Speaker 3: At all at all. So yeah, and you what do

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Speaker 3: you think am Like what if you I am with you?

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Speaker 2: It's like the iceberg and you think it's small, but

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Speaker 2: it's actually bigger than it is. I mean, even in

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Speaker 2: the beginning of COVID, they're saying, Oh, it's just the flu.

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Speaker 2: It's just the flu, you know. So even the way

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Speaker 2: we were approaching it was like that, you know. And

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Speaker 2: then it's like almost actually have the carpet or the

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Speaker 2: rug just pulled up and there's like a big gaping

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Speaker 2: hole and you just fall into it. I mean lockdown.

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Speaker 2: Initially people were like, this is a blessing time to

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Speaker 2: slow down time too, but I think when the death

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Speaker 2: and the disease that out, was like when is this

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Speaker 2: going to stop? No, and the spiral of all that

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Speaker 2: and like the security that we thought we had before,

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Speaker 2: Like I have never worried about living far from home

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Speaker 2: because I've always thought within twenty four hours.

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Speaker 3: I'll hop on a plane. I'll be back hop.

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Speaker 2: On a plane no matter what happens to my family.

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Speaker 2: You know, even when we go into finances, I'm sure

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Speaker 2: we'll talk about this. Having that kitty where you know

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Speaker 2: you need to go home, that's the going home thing,

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Speaker 2: you know, And also having a husband who lives away

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Speaker 2: from home as well. So except for both of us

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Speaker 2: who always have had that idea that any moment, anytime,

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Speaker 2: So because we never ever imagined a world with no travel,

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Speaker 2: never ever imagine. I think I saw a picture of

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Speaker 2: all the planes like parked in the desert, and it

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Speaker 2: was like you never would have imagined that. So it's

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Speaker 2: also have been weird for people like you and me

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Speaker 2: who live away from home because it's like when will

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Speaker 2: you go back safely? You know, it's just a lot

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Speaker 2: of thoughts anyway, there's no space to just breathe everything

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Speaker 2: and think about. There's a COVID thoughts behind it.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: Jobs, You're like, am I am I actually secure in

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Speaker 2: my job? You know? My health? Oh my gosh, will

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Speaker 2: I get it? You know? Yeah? Relationships, you know I

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Speaker 2: was spending too much time is was this the revite

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Speaker 2: relationship for me? You know now that I don't have

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Speaker 2: all the fluff, all the stuff. You know, it's just

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Speaker 2: you and me. Are we good?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Sos covid just everything that I just came out and

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Speaker 2: top of us over like the Titanic.

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Speaker 3: We're all we're just throwing undercoming.

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Speaker 2: So grief has been hand in hand with what we've

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Speaker 2: been feeling the last twenty twenty, twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I feel like twenty twenty one it's just

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Speaker 3: like amplified it, like the countermath, you know, like shady,

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Speaker 3: but like it's really shady, like not like joke shady,

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Speaker 3: but like it's really just like amplified it, like who,

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Speaker 3: like in your face because we thought there would be

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Speaker 3: more light like hope in twenty twenty one, but now

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Speaker 3: it's feeling like, oh when, what's happening? So totally yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when was your first heartbreak? Room D and Life

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Speaker 2: and Love? Do you remember cool?

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Speaker 3: I think in life, I think, well love maybe really

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Speaker 3: I don't know if I loved him, But when I

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Speaker 3: was in like who said no? But like because I

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Speaker 3: was a kid man, I had a really really good

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Speaker 3: for He was my best friend when we lived in Ghana.

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Speaker 3: We were the tightest of like thick as thieves and

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Speaker 3: then you know, we obviously left or he left first.

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Speaker 3: I think his family left Ghana first before we left.

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Speaker 3: That was like the first, like Preak, because I loved him.

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Speaker 3: This was like my my bestie, Like we did everything,

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Speaker 3: We play together, We like each other's houses like that

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Speaker 3: kind of thing. So that was tough. That's what I

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Speaker 3: can ultimately remember. Then, of course, I've had a lot

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Speaker 3: of like rejections, like people I liked, crushes. I think

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Speaker 3: in episode one, I told you all about how I

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Speaker 3: liked this one guy. My friend and I both like

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Speaker 3: this one guy, and then he said he didn't like

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Speaker 3: me because of my toenails. I want to ask me,

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Speaker 3: like savage.

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Speaker 2: Iails, nopeails right now, Nope, nope.

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Speaker 3: I got my dad toenails. Like so they're not like

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Speaker 3: they're not white. I don't have white toenails. It's like

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Speaker 3: they I don't know how they say No, you're not

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Speaker 3: saying that that's a sensitive spot, Amanda. Okay, Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 3: but there's that. Like, I think life has also brought

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Speaker 3: me a lot of heartbreak when it came to like

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Speaker 3: whether it's career or how I thought my life should go.

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Speaker 3: So many things man like I just yeah, a lot.

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Speaker 3: And for you, when was your first heartbreak or live break,

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Speaker 3: live heartbreak?

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Speaker 2: My first first heartbreak in life was probably like we

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Speaker 2: moved around a lot when I was a kid, and

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Speaker 2: I had my best friend who lived next door r Rain,

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Speaker 2: and then we had to like move and then I

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Speaker 2: remember like we were driving wolf and I was like

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Speaker 2: my face was plasted on the window of the car.

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Speaker 2: We're like waving to each other, like I remember, like

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Speaker 2: I just remember that feeling like I'm gonna see her again,

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Speaker 2: you know, like that.

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Speaker 3: Because you're dramatic, right, You're.

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Speaker 2: Like yeah, And of course we've seen each other since,

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Speaker 2: and I actually moved back there, so then I didn't

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Speaker 2: see her again. But just that in show like oh

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Speaker 2: my god, I'm black in the and we like we

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Speaker 2: write each other letters.

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Speaker 3: But you kind of knew that it's not gonna happen.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, that was my first thing. I was like seven.

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Speaker 2: I remember just thinking, oh my god, you know, so

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Speaker 2: that was really and in love. It was in primary school.

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Speaker 2: I loved this boy and I thought he was like

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Speaker 2: I would be blasting up names yet, but each maybe

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Speaker 2: he's got is married with kids. I don't know. I

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Speaker 2: mean you're.

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Speaker 3: Married to girls.

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Speaker 2: Oh I'll keep back the name on the love love

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Speaker 2: But like, I was so in love with him. I

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Speaker 2: thought perfection just boozed from him. And then he didn't

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Speaker 2: love me because I was too tall for He's like,

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Speaker 2: you're too tall. And I have just been so self

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Speaker 2: conscious because I never ever had looked at my eyes

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Speaker 2: and I was told yeah that in school and in

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Speaker 2: high school and probably today, but like I just remember,

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Speaker 2: that was the first time I ever felt not enough, Like,

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Speaker 2: you know, I had this confidence from before that you know,

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Speaker 2: someone likes me, like them, but that was the first

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Speaker 2: time by first rejection, I guess, really hit home, and

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Speaker 2: also in front of other people, so like you're not

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Speaker 2: only dealing with itself, but then exactly and everyone knows

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Speaker 2: you like him because you've been saying it's perfect, and

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Speaker 2: then like all of a sudden, you don't like him

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Speaker 2: because he hated on you, savage, but oh my god,

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Speaker 2: it was raw.

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Speaker 3: I totally get that. I totally get that. Oh my goodness, yeah, goodness,

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Speaker 3: discard what you bruh, we be smart. They do they

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Speaker 3: do scar you mean to you as you laugh and

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Speaker 3: ask me that question. I think grief is losing someone

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Speaker 3: or something that was of great importance in your life.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes you don't know how your life can be without

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Speaker 3: that person, that opportunity, that thing, that And so it's

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Speaker 3: trying to trying to what's the word, not reconfigure, but

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Speaker 3: trying to understand how you're supposed to keep going in

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Speaker 3: light of not having this or this thing not having

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Speaker 3: worked out the way you expected. And so it's it's

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Speaker 3: also about mourning the loss of the this thing, the

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Speaker 3: idea of this person, or the life that could have been,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean. So it's like this you're

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Speaker 3: trying to understand and you're trying to there's a word

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Speaker 3: that I'm not getting, but like you're trying to bridge

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Speaker 3: that gap of like because what it was supposed to be,

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Speaker 3: this is what it is, this doesn't make sense, and

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Speaker 3: your mind is like trying there's a there's a short fuse,

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Speaker 3: and you're trying to like fix it, if that makes sense.

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Speaker 3: So that's that's grief. I think for me, it's it's

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Speaker 3: definitely lost. It's a feeling of like something has been

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Speaker 3: taken away, and it often feels of course irreplaceable or

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Speaker 3: unjust or unfair or we don't yeah, we don't understand.

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Speaker 3: And for you, what does grief?

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Speaker 2: I think it's exactly as you've said, it's almost like

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Speaker 2: whatever the situation is with it's losing your job, losing

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Speaker 2: a loved one, getting rejected, whatever the grief or the

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Speaker 2: heartbreak or the loss is, it's almost like there's a

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Speaker 2: before and after. So that's like that before we are like, ah,

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Speaker 2: everything's cool or whatever. Then there's after it was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: that has happened, and now it's one less yeah, and

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Speaker 2: then as you said, your mind still thinks of the

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Speaker 2: sugar could would and but you're still living in this reality,

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Speaker 2: but your mind is like yeah, like we were, like

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Speaker 2: you're always in two minds when it comes to a

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Speaker 2: particular subject matter like oh I could have, should have? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I wish, I wish this, I wish that. I wonder

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Speaker 2: whereas life was showing you no, no, no, this is.

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Speaker 3: It what it is? Yeah, yeah, so you've explained it

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Speaker 3: to it actually earlier about how like this expectation, like

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Speaker 3: you've released control, like the over this COVID nineteen issues,

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Speaker 3: like you release you relinquish control because like you don't

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Speaker 3: have ultimate And I think part of grief is like

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Speaker 3: there's a control you thought you had or a direction

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Speaker 3: you thought you and then now it's like gone, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And a lot, a lot most times it's out of the.

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Speaker 3: Blue, right yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, even even if it's a relationship, you

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Speaker 2: still think, how we can do it, we can make

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Speaker 2: it hold.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and then when that final call comes like no,

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Speaker 5: or it's it's a lot, it's yeah, it's hard to

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Speaker 5: leave it with all the hopes and the dreams than

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Speaker 5: the ones and the wishes you.

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Speaker 2: Had for that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's tough. Any loss us think the same

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Speaker 3: question at the same time, any losses that have had

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Speaker 3: a profound impact on your and in life and love,

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Speaker 3: and you know, in life.

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Speaker 2: I'll start with in love. That's probably easier. In love,

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Speaker 2: of course, you know, maybe not profound. But each rejection,

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Speaker 2: each each set back, so to speak, it changes you.

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Speaker 2: You know, you don't brush it off and move on.

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Speaker 2: You kind of go, oh, you know, you lock your

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Speaker 2: wounds a little bit. Then you try to pick yourself up.

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Speaker 2: So I say, well, just put yourself off and try again. Yeah, Eli, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: let's do it. So like yeah, it's like that where

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Speaker 2: you know, you think you thought you knew how it

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Speaker 2: was going to go. And then it doesn't, and it's heartbreaking.

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Speaker 2: And then sometimes sometimes it's embarrassing as well, because you're like,

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Speaker 2: why do I even like it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then in life, of course it goes about saying

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Speaker 2: that my mom passed away that has had a profound

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Speaker 2: impact in my life. That's definitely, uh, before and after.

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Speaker 2: It's like it's like the red seed that was patted,

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Speaker 2: and there's that before and after. Always everything I think of,

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Speaker 2: everything I do, it's always back to that. That's like

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Speaker 2: a it's like a big gap or a big line

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Speaker 2: in the sand in my life. You know, how life

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Speaker 2: was before and how life has been.

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Speaker 3: You think it influenced it has influenced the woman you

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Speaker 3: have become today, or.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's kind of like such a hard question

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Speaker 2: to answer because you don't have the privilege of knowing

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Speaker 2: anything else. Yeah, I can't say, oh, it hasn't, because

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Speaker 2: obviously it has. But then I also don't have something

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Speaker 2: to compare it. I don't have Amanda, the one who

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Speaker 2: would have grown up with her mom, the one whould

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Speaker 2: have had a mom now knowing her, you know, and

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Speaker 2: I don't have that, so I almost like, of course

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Speaker 2: the answers yes, it would be would, but I also

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Speaker 2: don't have a comparison for It's like asking someone what

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Speaker 2: rich you know, how did it feel?

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Speaker 3: Almost like it's normal? Yeah, yeah, it's normal.

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Speaker 2: Normal. My normal is that my mom passed away when

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Speaker 2: I was fourteen, and that's my normal. Yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 2: can imagine what life could have been.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, and for you.

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Speaker 2: Any any losses that have been profound.

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Speaker 3: And love same thing, like you like, it's weird, you

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Speaker 3: know sometimes the trivial little like heartbreaks that we had

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Speaker 3: when we were young with the guy didn't shoot you

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Speaker 3: or your question and liking back it has it has

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Speaker 3: an impact a profound impact on you in the in

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Speaker 3: the subtleties and you know, but yeah, it's definitely impacted me.

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Speaker 3: But I think too it also showed me that I

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Speaker 3: didn't want to ever feel or doubt if someone loved

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Speaker 3: me or not, and that would be like my you know,

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Speaker 3: like yeah when it came to you know, being in

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Speaker 3: a relationship. So absolutely that had an impact on me.

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Speaker 3: I think there are moments in my upbringing that have

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Speaker 3: had a profound impact on who I've become. Like I know,

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Speaker 3: life before and almost like created a darkness in my

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Speaker 3: life after does that make sense? And created a level

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Speaker 3: of like this world is not safe, this world is

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Speaker 3: not home, this world, do you get what I mean?

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Speaker 3: And I have those moments that I can distinctly remember

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Speaker 3: that impacted me, and that's in life and kind of

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Speaker 3: having to grow out of that and trying as you

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Speaker 3: grow up, trying to you know, develop out of that.

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Speaker 3: And I think too, you know, I've lost people in life,

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Speaker 3: you know, close relatives, as we all have, and it

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Speaker 3: really makes you think twice about life every time. Right,

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Speaker 3: You're always like, oh, you know, like, yeah, don't take

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Speaker 3: life for granted. But like the closer it is, the

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Speaker 3: more deeply you feel it, and you know, it feels

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Speaker 3: really really unfair.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I.

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Speaker 3: Feel like this year twenty twenty one just came guns

339
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Speaker 3: blazing in that way it was ruthless and has just

340
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Speaker 3: really hit you know, at least has hit me in

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Speaker 3: the face that like to anybody is gained at this

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Speaker 3: point in life, like we've always known it. But like

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Speaker 3: I think the COVID has just become that much more

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Speaker 3: like apparent, even if it's has not been death due

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Speaker 3: to COVID, it's just hits differently, Like it's just differently

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Speaker 3: so much loss in that way. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's something about death in our peers like

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Speaker 2: not not to take away from death of elderly religiove

349
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Speaker 2: so younger even, but when someone is like the same

350
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Speaker 2: age as you or in social circle as you, it

351
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Speaker 2: just differently because it's almost like what like, yeah, you

352
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Speaker 2: just it's.

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Speaker 3: Not supposed to happen. It's not supposed to happen.

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Speaker 2: Problem, Yeah, not to us, you know, so whenever it's

355
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Speaker 2: someone super close or you just didn't expect literally the

356
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Speaker 2: breath out of your lungs.

357
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Speaker 3: Literally had that mo like where you're like, oh my goodness.

358
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Speaker 3: And then I think it's amplified when you're far away,

359
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,640
Speaker 3: like being away from home. It's such a mind if

360
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Speaker 3: because you're like, is this a joke? Like what's happening?

361
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Speaker 3: Like what is? Yeah?

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Speaker 6: So guys, yeah, I think a lot of us when

363
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Speaker 6: you're Sorryry, I think a lot of us are going

364
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Speaker 6: to be dealing with grief for a long time, especially

365
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Speaker 6: if we haven't been able to bury people or be

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Speaker 6: there or it's going to be.

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Speaker 3: A longer grieving process than I think we are aware of.

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Speaker 2: Or yeah, that's exactly what I was going to say

369
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Speaker 2: that you know when you live far like both of

370
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Speaker 2: my grandma's when they passed away, I was here already,

371
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Speaker 2: and yeah, of course you grieve. Of course you cry,

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Speaker 2: You're like, oh my gosh, they like but both of them,

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Speaker 2: I didn't make it for their funerals. I didn't go.

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Speaker 2: And then when you finally do go and you see

375
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Speaker 2: where they're laid to rest, you also realize how everyone's

376
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 2: moved on and you're still start there. And even when

377
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Speaker 2: I went to my my grandma, my dad's mom, whenever

378
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 2: we like drive down the long driveway, you should always

379
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 2: be like your way, your way, your way, your way,

380
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Speaker 2: and start like re elating and like yeah, being so

381
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Speaker 2: happy that you've come. I will literally announce you as

382
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Speaker 2: you're coming out of the car, like oh z yeah,

383
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,360
Speaker 2: oh Solomon is You're like everyone so like to go

384
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Speaker 2: and not have that reception. It's like, oh yeah, you know.

385
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 2: So it's like those little things and everyone else is

386
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 2: now so used to it because depending on how much

387
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 2: how much time has passed from when she passed to

388
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 2: when you go. It's just that also can be a

389
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 2: bit isolating because you're like, you feel like you didn't

390
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:19,439
Speaker 2: grieve with everyone. It's such a weird thing. How do

391
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,919
Speaker 2: you think you handled rejection and love when you're in

392
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Speaker 2: primary high school? UNI twenties primary school.

393
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Speaker 3: I just cried, yeah, I mean really, what are you

394
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 3: going to do? Internalized it as a flaw on my part,

395
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 3: if that makes sense, like saying you know what I mean,

396
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 3: like like there's something wrong with me for this person's

397
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 3: like me. So for example, like that's why I'm sensitive

398
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 3: about my toes, my toenails, or that's why like I'm

399
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 3: sensitive about my many different things. Right, So, because you

400
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 3: just feel ashamed and instead of like I wouldn't go

401
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 3: to like a friend like oh can you believe this dude?

402
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 3: Not wanting this? Oh no, you know, it was different.

403
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 2: So I just felt justified. And then rejecting you, you

404
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 2: felt like that was.

405
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 3: I felt more a shame, like oh, there must be

406
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 3: something wrong with me. And then it's like then you

407
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 3: hide in your corner. You're not like trying to unpack it, right,

408
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,120
Speaker 3: You're just like you, look, there's something wrong with you, girl,

409
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 3: Like keep this to yourself, if that makes sense. So

410
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 3: there was that UNI venting to friends still a level

411
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 3: of shame, but like venting to friends and like just

412
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 3: going like oh, why you know that kind of thing,

413
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:42,679
Speaker 3: partying of course being an outlet too, right, We're just

414
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 3: like it, let's drink, let's you know, like that was

415
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 3: a way to deal with it, you know, which was fun.

416
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 3: But and then in my thirties, I think I'm still

417
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 3: young in my thirties, but kind of just like there's

418
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 3: no time to waste really like it's like you know

419
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 3: what you want, you know what you're here for, and

420
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 3: not like you can read between the lives of abuse

421
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,719
Speaker 3: when I waste my time or want things that I

422
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 3: don't want or so yeah, so then you're more able

423
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 3: to be discerning and just be like, you know what, okay, fine,

424
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 3: like move on quick. It's like not you, it's just

425
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 3: the situation might not be right or that kind of thing. So, yeah,

426
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 3: that's my that's my dealing. That's how I dealt with it.

427
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 3: And yourself, how have you dealt with primary?

428
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 2: I would say probably for me, if I liked the boy,

429
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 2: I'll usually speak of my friend, which doesn't really work.

430
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, so then we're just dou Yeah.

431
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 2: So I think I never like now that I look

432
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 2: back on it, and I did a little bit of

433
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 2: it in high school as well. Made boys I liked

434
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: my friends, I think because I already thought I was

435
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 2: going to get rejected, so it was easier then to

436
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 2: deal with it, like, oh I don't like him that much,

437
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 2: it's just a home no. So yeah, like when you

438
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 2: think about it's a bit fucked up because it's like

439
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 2: give yourself the chance, you just automatically go on, you won't,

440
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 2: you know. So I know a lot of times for me,

441
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 2: a lot of guys who were my friends and shout

442
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 2: out to you boys in high school, I probably did

443
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 2: like you, but then I like suppressed it to a

444
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 2: point where you get to know them too well, or

445
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 2: you just you make it because when.

446
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 3: They start coming to talk to you about their relationship

447
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 3: yeah yeah.

448
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 2: Or to ask you to hook them up with someone else,

449
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 2: you're like yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think a lot

450
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 2: of times my coping mechanism was just to make them friends,

451
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,239
Speaker 2: and I never re allowed out myself to then get

452
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,719
Speaker 2: to the point of really being outwardly rejected, like I

453
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 2: like it, I don't like you back. But because I

454
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 2: kind of thought I was like a clafoyant and I'd

455
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 2: already seen.

456
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 3: The thing all work.

457
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 2: This dude ain't gonna check for me, like it's not

458
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 2: gonna happen, you know, so and school dances, as we

459
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 2: talked about last season, happened, and you know, when he's

460
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 2: not inviting you say like, well this is my I'm fat,

461
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 2: you know kind of thing. I just never saw any

462
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:32,199
Speaker 2: guy really taking the chance. So then it just I

463
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 2: never gave myself the chance. Then you uni wasn't.

464
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 3: I was getting to ask, do you think guys know

465
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 3: when they are also like using you in that way

466
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 3: like you're my friend, Like, but I still kind of

467
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 3: flirt with you.

468
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 2: I know you like that, I know.

469
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 3: You, and I know you like me.

470
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 2: And then they, yes, girls do it toat me, both

471
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 2: of us do. It's a power plane, you know when

472
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 2: you some some of them I don't think you, to

473
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 2: be honest, I think some of them I just squashed

474
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 2: it so quickly that it just never And sometimes you're

475
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 2: also like is it really me liking you, like qushing

476
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 2: on you, or I'm just am I just happy that

477
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 2: we have a rapport, you know. So it's kind of

478
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 2: like the lines start to get a bit blur because

479
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 2: when you're not talking to that many guys and you

480
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 2: have a few guys you're talking to, do you like

481
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 2: them or do you just like the attention they're giving.

482
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 3: Me kind of like I'm with you, I'm with you.

483
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 2: And Uni for me was like bravado, Like if someone

484
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 2: didn't like me, I was like, well, you know now

485
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 2: what he's missing out on? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm

486
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 2: that bag. I checked my DNA like Liza said, how

487
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 2: do I pers said that bitch? Like so like Unika,

488
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm like a confee. I just got this

489
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 2: confidence where I was just like you know, no, no, no,

490
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 2: and I think that you're allowing it in a different space.

491
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: They let me allowed me to which I suppose in

492
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,239
Speaker 2: some ways I'm great. Before I didn't go to like

493
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 2: a place where there's lots of Zimbabweans, to a unique

494
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 2: because maybe it wouldn't have let me have this identity.

495
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 2: When I came to Australia, I can kind of morph

496
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 2: this identity of who I really wanted to be, who

497
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 2: I am so and so yeah. So Uni was just

498
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 2: definitely like like yeah, he'd be silly, he'd be silly,

499
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 2: like yeah, I don't know what he's missing. And then

500
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 2: twenties was like hard. I mustered late twenties before I

501
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 2: met my husband, because you are starting to think of

502
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 2: a family, right, just tarting to think of long term relationships.

503
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 2: You know, it's not about flings anymore. So it's like

504
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 2: when you're like dating, dating, dating someone potentially potential potential,

505
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 2: and then something happens and then you don't say, oh,

506
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: I gotta start again, like that back and forth, back

507
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 2: and forth, back and forth, and seeing the potential on

508
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 2: someone and then seeing all actually nothing. So yeah, twenties,

509
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 2: late twenties was exhausting in terms of that back and forthness.

510
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 2: I just wanted to I felt like I just wanted

511
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 2: to settle in a bad way, like just find anyone. No, no, no,

512
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 2: But in I was ready for life. I was ready

513
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 2: for a good man to love me. So obviously when

514
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 2: my husband found me there was a little bit of

515
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 2: a sense of relief as well, like, Okay, he'd be good.

516
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 2: I'm good, I'm loving, he loves me. Let's do this,

517
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 2: because yeah, the back and forth and the you know,

518
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 2: and I think it's for like the six months or

519
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 2: three months or four months you're dating, You're like, should

520
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 2: look funder, should be found Ba's all working. Wow, And

521
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 2: then and then no, and then you have to go

522
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 2: back again. And then like so, yeah, it's being nice.

523
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 2: There's a sense of the sense of comfort that also

524
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 2: sometimes comes when you find.

525
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 3: Someone I'm with you, I like that. Yeah, it's so fun.

526
00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 3: So you finished me with your UNI you need do

527
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 3: you know I haven't even listened. I've never press play

528
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 3: on a little song. I only see it on top.

529
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 2: Wow. I've never talked about them, but I have listened

530
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 2: to like the Keys the singles. Yeah, yeah, what are you?

531
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 2: On the stages of grief, so there's denial and up bagoning,

532
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 2: depression and then acceptance.

533
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think it's allowed, right, like allow.

534
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 3: I feel like with grief sometimes that's the time where

535
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 3: we actually allow ourselves to feel mm hmm. And I'm

536
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 3: talking about grief, grief and the sense of losing a

537
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 3: loved one. But we don't allow ourselves that space when

538
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 3: it comes to other areas of our lives. Sometimes it's

539
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 3: like relationship or sometimes relationship we do allow. For sure,

540
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 3: we've all had those moments where we wanted to do

541
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 3: waiting for waiting to exhale, put the stuff in the card,

542
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 3: light on fire, or in vogue like smash it. But

543
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 3: I think we don't always allow ourselves to grieve a

544
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 3: loss of It could be friendships, it could be a

545
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 3: loss of a j job, loss of income. We don't

546
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 3: give ourselves that room because it's always like bounce back,

547
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 3: keep it moving. It's not really affecting your uh sort of,

548
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 3: it's not a life or death situation, do you get

549
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,479
Speaker 3: what I mean? So, I think when we lose a

550
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 3: loved one or lose love, that's when we actually almost

551
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 3: allow ourselves to feel. But we're essentially supposed to allow

552
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 3: ourselves that in whatever thing that we feel like we're

553
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 3: grieving or loss. It could be the change in a

554
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,239
Speaker 3: relationship dynamic with someone you're gonna be and you know,

555
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 3: if it's a family member, they're going to be in

556
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 3: your life, but like the dynamic changes, so you're allowed

557
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 3: to do that, you know, we you know. So I

558
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 3: think there's a lot of denial in other aspects and

559
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 3: we never really go through the anger bargaining, do you

560
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 3: get what I mean? And so we're harboring and just

561
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 3: carrying these emotions throughout and it's like, doesn't it does

562
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 3: us a disservice? If that makes sense? But yeah, I

563
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 3: think I understand the stages of grief. Do you understand them?

564
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 3: Or do you think they're relevant.

565
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 2: Well, I know I do think they're relevant. I do

566
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 2: think they're necessary. I do think they can be out

567
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 2: of order like them, and I do think they can

568
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 2: come back and come back again. Like it's cyclicult. I

569
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,320
Speaker 2: don't think it's linear. I were like, okay, I've finished

570
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 2: the stage. Okay, now it's.

571
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 3: All like that. Yes, like anything and everything, and it

572
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 3: can trigger. You can be triggered exactly exactly.

573
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 2: Because I think on my personal experience my sometimes I

574
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 2: think to myself, obviously I agree with my I agree

575
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 2: with for my mom, But like when I was fourteen

576
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 2: or fifteen or sixteen, did I not miss her as

577
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 2: much as I'm miss her now?

578
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 3: And why so?

579
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 2: Is that because now I'm a wife? Is that because

580
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 2: now I need more? Like when I was doing the rod,

581
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 2: I think we all know how much we need to

582
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 2: lean on a mother at that time. Is that things

583
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 2: like that? Is it like when my nieces were born

584
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 2: and I'm looking at them and thinking you never meet her,

585
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 2: like It's just like it triggers you at different times.

586
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 2: So I think I feel like, though I respect the

587
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 2: stages of grief, sometimes people take them too literally, Like

588
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 2: I sometimes I've been in situation where people think you're

589
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 2: still not over it. Like I've had people speak not

590
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 2: over it, and it's like I would never be over this,

591
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 2: and that's okay, that's okay for me to always grief

592
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 2: on this particular that I might not be as raw anymore,

593
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 2: I might not bring me to tears as much anymore,

594
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 2: But it's not like it turns into zimbablan communication as well,

595
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 2: because we don't we don't get to grief properly. You

596
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 2: don't get it's almost like and also because there's so

597
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,399
Speaker 2: much death and despair even before COVID, it's almost like

598
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 2: whilst you're grieving, something else happens, one to the next,

599
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 2: to the next, one to the next. And also having

600
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 2: a big family doesn't allow for everyone to fully go

601
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,280
Speaker 2: through their process. I feel like for a lot of people,

602
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 2: grief is behind closed doors.

603
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 3: For sure.

604
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 2: It's very quiet moments by themselves and it's very isolating,

605
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 2: which really the only thing to help you out of

606
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 2: it is the opposite of it. You can't just be

607
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 2: by yourself.

608
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 3: In a funny we have the culture like it's very

609
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 3: important for us to go and offer our condolences and

610
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 3: that kind of thing. Obviously with COVID is strange, but

611
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 3: even with when we could, I feel like we have

612
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 3: this strong culture of but it was also still isolating.

613
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 3: Like I remember, but when my grandparents or my aunt

614
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 3: died and then like everybody leaves, it's like this mass

615
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 3: excellence right after the funeral and then you really it

616
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 3: hits you. Then that birth night of sleeping after the

617
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 3: funeral would always be the one where I would have

618
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 3: the nightmare or the one do you know what I mean?

619
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 3: For sure, it's it's it's weird. And I think as

620
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 3: a people, as Whens, we probably carrying a lot of trauma,

621
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 3: a lot of.

622
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:35,919
Speaker 2: For sure, because that's why when we said, like even

623
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 2: our family episodes, when you poke someone the wrong way,

624
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 2: they you wrap like they start talking to you about

625
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 2: things from five years ago. You're like, but it just

626
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 2: shows that we need a lot of therapy. The people

627
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 2: we faced a lot and like it's just always bubbling

628
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 2: under the surface. Yeah, And like I mean, we have

629
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 2: a saying in our culture as well, and then family

630
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 2: and I think Thai hand with what you'll say. So

631
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 2: I felt like even for me, it's almost like people

632
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 2: were concerned, concerned, and then silence, no no one really

633
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 2: be checking for you. People are not back to their life.

634
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 2: People are back to their you know, and then you

635
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,439
Speaker 2: feel like weird going, you know, and also ties into

636
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 2: classism and because some people will be like, ah, but

637
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,399
Speaker 2: your dad is providing you have a roof over your head,

638
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,720
Speaker 2: what are you complaining about? Like, yeah, your mom was gone,

639
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 2: but like almost like so it's almost like it didn't

640
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 2: tie into the if I was poor and if I

641
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 2: was struggling, like it needed to complete the story. And

642
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 2: then maybe my grief is not as deep as someone

643
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 2: else is because I've gotten I'm in a privileged space.

644
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 2: So it's such an awkward, weird thing to like, yeah,

645
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 2: such a weird space to occupy them. But yeah, I

646
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 2: feel I feel you when you say everyone's there and

647
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,399
Speaker 2: then everyone's not there. But then, having said that, don't

648
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 2: you get annoyed at funeral when you're serving, when you're

649
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 2: the ones was briefing, like people expect you to do

650
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 2: the dishes and make tea.

651
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,240
Speaker 3: And feed people such idea.

652
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, like at my own mom's funeral, I remember this

653
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 2: so distinctly, like I had to wash some person's hands

654
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 2: so that they can eat or whatever. And one of

655
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 2: my other uncles was like, ay, my mask feral like

656
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 2: understanding this child to kind of do this, you know,

657
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 2: but they're like, oh, my aunts are looking at at

658
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:28,919
Speaker 2: and at.

659
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 3: Me like what's wrong is the problem?

660
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 2: You know, you're going to need to eat? But it's like

661
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 2: I'm so yes, you don't. It's so like, yeah, I've.

662
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 3: Had, you know, similar situations when my grandpas. My granddad

663
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 3: was like you're just out there in the kitchen's laboring

664
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,839
Speaker 3: and then only at night. Then I'll never forget this

665
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 3: one night and then like we're now like so exhausted

666
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,720
Speaker 3: because we've been feeding, serving cookie, whatever we've been doing.

667
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 3: And then as cousins, we just went to look for

668
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 3: a room so we could just like rest, you know,

669
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 3: and then being like told you're sleeping and I supposed

670
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 3: to sleep, Like come on, and I'm just it's a

671
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 3: lot like the expectations during grief are a lot and

672
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 3: also expectations of what it is to grieve. Like, you know,

673
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 3: you come from a culture where you'll hear someone crying

674
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 3: from the gate or the gate road, like screaming, and

675
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:25,439
Speaker 3: then when they get you don't know them, You don't

676
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 3: know them, they ain't got tears in their eyes, but

677
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:32,280
Speaker 3: they've been screaming, you know, and then throw the ground

678
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 3: and then the next second they're just like kicking and laughing.

679
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 3: And then I once had a situation where my aunt

680
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 3: died and she was like my closest on my mom's

681
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:44,399
Speaker 3: young sister, and she like love loved her like and

682
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 3: she raised us, she took care of us like when

683
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 3: my parents were away. This one like so many funny men,

684
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 3: like you know, someone had like a special place in

685
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 3: your heart. And then this one cousin came to us

686
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 3: and I was like, of course, I almost and send

687
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 3: that whole night to Jema, like you guys are crying.

688
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 3: We haven't seen you cry yet.

689
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 2: No.

690
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 3: I just remember being like, what in the actual is this,

691
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 3: you know, being policed on how to grieve?

692
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 2: You know.

693
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 3: I was overwhelmed. I you know, found out when we

694
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 3: were boarding school and had to come home. You get there,

695
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 3: there are a lot of people around and you're just

696
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,800
Speaker 3: being sent back and forth, do this, do X do

697
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 3: y do Z. It's overwhelming, And like I said, for me,

698
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 3: it would always hit like when everyone was gone, and

699
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 3: then it just like hits home when I'm just chilling

700
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 3: with like my immediate family or cousins that are you know,

701
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 3: close and we're just talking. Yeah. So oh it's frustrating.

702
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 2: It's such a blade space because even for me, I'm

703
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 2: in I seen scenarios.

704
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 4: You.

705
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 2: My mom's younger sister just diabetic. So then Troubles went

706
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 2: into a diabetic coma and didn't come out of it,

707
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 2: collapsed at home. No one found her and my dad

708
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 2: actually because I used to work around the same area,

709
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 2: and my dad went was like I didn't see her

710
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 2: at lunch like always kind of meet at lunch at

711
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 2: Belgravia shops and then second Street extension actually then he

712
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 2: went to her house apartment and then we found her.

713
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 2: So it was very traumatic even for my dad. And

714
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 2: I remember like them calling me and I was in

715
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 2: D block and they're like telling me, but it was

716
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 2: almost like telling me as an after so after think like, oh,

717
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 2: we're already on our way, Kumusha, you know, already on

718
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 2: our way, like you you know, oh that's what happened,

719
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 2: And like there was no space for me to almost

720
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 2: be like can I come to like can you come

721
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 2: and get me? Because again, a lot of Zimbabwe and parents'

722
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 2: way of fixing things is keeping you in school. You know,

723
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 2: will teach you things, that will show you things. So

724
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 2: like at this time a woman to be grieving, and

725
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: I loved her.

726
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:49,720
Speaker 3: I absolutely loved.

727
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,720
Speaker 2: Her, adore her. And then it felt a bit unfair

728
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:54,760
Speaker 2: that it was just like, oh, you're at voarding school,

729
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 2: we could take you out of school. But it was like, huh,

730
00:42:58,160 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 2: so it's wild.

731
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 3: But I I had called, just like let me call,

732
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 3: like to catch up. Then it was like Ceci answered

733
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 3: the phone and she's like, I'm like, oh my money,

734
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 3: Paul is mom there? And then she's like, oh, haven't

735
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 3: you heard? And I remember it's like such a mind

736
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 3: if like what you know? But yeah, I get you.

737
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 2: Sorry, it's almost that they decided for you. You're too

738
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 2: young for you know, but it's like you also need

739
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:28,720
Speaker 2: to grieve if you've had a relationship with this.

740
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 3: So it's a lot. How do you give how do

741
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 3: you keep hopeful? Like I mean to keep going because

742
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 3: I think oftentimes brief it's like what's the point especially

743
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 3: with someone near and dear to you, Like how do

744
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 3: you keep going? What gives you hope?

745
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 4: Like yeah, I wish this is like if anyone has

746
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 4: the answer listeners please these times because I wish there

747
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 4: was like a one size fits all answer or like.

748
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 2: Because literally sometimes it's I guess if you're a Christian

749
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 2: or spiritual, it is that that hope that you see

750
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:16,720
Speaker 2: them again.

751
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 3: You know.

752
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 2: If you're not, it's just the hope that everything will

753
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 2: be okay, you know. But really it's every day you

754
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 2: tell yourself something different. There's no when you've lost someone

755
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 2: who's really really close to you, there's no way about

756
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 2: thinking about it every single day, and especially when it's

757
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 2: someone who's plays a big role in our lives. A

758
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:45,879
Speaker 2: mom plays a huge role, you know, so it's impossible

759
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 2: to not think about her every single day not be

760
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 2: reminded of her in some way. You know, people at

761
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 2: work would be like, oh my mom's annoying me, or

762
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 2: my mom baked by these goodies, or oh now mom's

763
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 2: taking care of the kids. Like there's always constant Your

764
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 2: mother's Day is huge, especially in our society where like

765
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 2: there's a lot of strong single mothers and it's celebrated

766
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 2: to be a strong woman. You definitely feel it all

767
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 2: the time that there is that misinvoid there that can

768
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 2: there'll never be filled, you know, even if your parents remarry,

769
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 2: even if you like your step parents or whatever. It's

770
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 2: never the same as your actual own mother. I'm not

771
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 2: the same person, and especially if you did get to

772
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 2: experience them, and I'm sure people who adopted or people

773
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 2: who maybe even lost their mother younger than me, you

774
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 2: always have that yearning like, oh, you know, I wonder

775
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 2: or so it's the only hope is that you hope

776
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 2: you're doing right by them.

777
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 3: You hope that.

778
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 2: And you also don't get bobbed down. You know a

779
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 2: lot of times I've had to. You know, you do

780
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 2: get grief counseling, you do reach out for help, you

781
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 2: do ways coping, ways to.

782
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 3: Defintely I have enough. But okay, I'll say sorry for me.

783
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:18,439
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, for me, I think because I do

784
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 3: believe in God, like that is an so imperative for me,

785
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 3: because I don't understand sometimes I don't understand the loss,

786
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 3: like it makes no sense, it's not fair, why it's

787
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 3: not supposed to happen, Like there's a lot of feelings

788
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 3: around that. So I have to trust and says like

789
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 3: and also that ultimately we're all going to have that

790
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 3: same ending, We're all going to die. It's like, what

791
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 3: have you done with your life? When you're on your deathbed,

792
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 3: like will you be happy with how you lived your

793
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 3: life and did you everything you believe you are called

794
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 3: to do? And for me, one of my key things

795
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 3: that always drives me is I don't want to have

796
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 3: regrets on my deathbed, and so in essence, that's what

797
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,959
Speaker 3: kind of keeps me going. But it's hard as ever

798
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 3: sometimes to keep going, especially you know, not only in

799
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 3: the form of grief or loss in terms of loved ones,

800
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 3: but in life. I think I've grieved a lot to

801
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 3: do with what I expected my life to be or

802
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 3: how I expect my life to go, or you know,

803
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 3: in that sense, I've also just had to be like

804
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 3: you keep going because it's like this can't be it,

805
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 3: Like you can't you know. I have a deep belief

806
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 3: that there's more to life, So I have to keep

807
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 3: going for that for the ones around me who love me,

808
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 3: who keep me strong and keep me going, you know that,

809
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 3: so other things like that's why you need community, because

810
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 3: community helps you and carries you when you sometimes can't

811
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 3: carry yourself or don't have the strength. So there are

812
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,720
Speaker 3: a lot of factors that kind of, you know, play

813
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 3: but it's not easy. That's why we get excited for

814
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 3: life when a new baby is born and you know,

815
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 3: but for loss, it's completely different, you know. Matter, I

816
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,720
Speaker 3: want to ask you what advice you would give listeners

817
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 3: about grief or loss, And I'd also like if you

818
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 3: can share how we can be there for people who

819
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 3: have lost, especially in your example, in your situation, you know,

820
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 3: having lost a mother. Like you're talking about environments where

821
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 3: people talk about their parents. Sometimes you do it carelessly, right,

822
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, my mom. And I know I've definitely

823
00:48:55,160 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 3: said that to you, you know, you know, like navigating that,

824
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 3: and we've had this conversation before, but I think it

825
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 3: might be helpful. It's like, because I think as people,

826
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 3: we don't know how to approach people. Yeah, it's tough

827
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 3: when they've lost, but yeah, what advice would you give?

828
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 2: And so the funny thing is you just said we

829
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 2: don't know how to approach, and I also don't know

830
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 2: how to approach someone else. Because even though I can

831
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 2: be an expect on my own grief about everyone, I've

832
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:36,280
Speaker 2: learned a lot along the way that people grieve differently.

833
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 2: So some people grieve and they want to talk about

834
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 2: everything to do with their person, you know, everything's about

835
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 2: what my mom needs to do, everything, everything, everything. Then

836
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:49,240
Speaker 2: some people you barely even know, you know, I actually

837
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:51,359
Speaker 2: told you, like, oh wow, I never even knew because

838
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 2: they just never even go there. Then there's some people

839
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 2: do a bit of both, you know, so it's almost

840
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 2: like it's a friend or a loved one like your partner.

841
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 2: Something you need to hone in on what it is

842
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 2: for them where they're at, but also give them space

843
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 2: to realize that they might not one day they might

844
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 2: just wake up and all they want to do is

845
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 2: talk about them, Or one day they might wake up

846
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 2: and they don't want to talk about that. So it

847
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 2: almost always the saying that keeps coming to mind is

848
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 2: hold the space. Be Okay, it's sticky, it's awkward, it's

849
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 2: but hold it for them so they can deferl in

850
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:36,399
Speaker 2: whatever way they want to, you know, if they want

851
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 2: to show you their mom's favorite recipe, if they want to,

852
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 2: if they want to just chat about a funny story

853
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 2: that they got reminded of. Because a lot of times,

854
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 2: even when you go like Reef Counseling and I was

855
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 2: reading this book currently called Motherless Daughters, one of the

856
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 2: things they talk about is that they love hearing other

857
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 2: people mention memories and names, especially as time goes by.

858
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 2: Like for me, I just I just had an uncle

859
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 2: passed away, probably a year or two ago, and I

860
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 2: said to myself when and passed away, I loved him more,

861
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 2: especially because you always share stories about my moments. You know,

862
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 2: she died in two thousand and two. Now we're in

863
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, twenty nineteen when he passed away, so

864
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 2: a fair few years. So the stories start to trickle

865
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 2: and trickle to nothing, and especially in a community as

866
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 2: you've just talked about them, where you don't talk about

867
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 2: things that hurt. So it was always nice when it

868
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 2: was she had ten bits like oh no, your mom

869
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 2: were young. We have to go and do this and

870
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 2: do it like my ears were all in. Like you

871
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 2: want photos, you want pictures, you want everything that like

872
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:52,439
Speaker 2: because those things are treasured to you, and they show

873
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 2: you a snippet. I mean, another part of it, they say,

874
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:59,479
Speaker 2: was is you idolize the person young, especially they become

875
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 2: this perfect parents, but obviously they have their flaws. So

876
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 2: I think the best way, even in situations when you

877
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:09,280
Speaker 2: don't know the person is just to hold this space.

878
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 2: So if you say, what does your mom do? And

879
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,399
Speaker 2: then I say, oh, actually your mom passed away. Don't

880
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 2: just be like quickly like want to you know, just

881
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:19,919
Speaker 2: be like, oh my gosh, I'm sorry to hear that,

882
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 2: but you know, would she have like this color like

883
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 2: continue the conversation. Don't then go oh run for the hills,

884
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 2: which a lot of people do, because they almost And

885
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 2: I find a lot of times people will be surprised

886
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 2: that you want to continue, and then they'll actually be

887
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 2: like and if they don't want to talk about they'll

888
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 2: tell you rather not.

889
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, but most times they will love to.

890
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 2: They'll love to tell you whatever. It doesn't actually answered

891
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 2: the question, actually you don't go there. But I think

892
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:52,839
Speaker 2: it's because we're, as humans were, like conditioned to be comfortable. Yes,

893
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 2: so we're not robot when the space isn't comfortable, our

894
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 2: instinct in spite of fat you know, like and I

895
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 2: find that even with my friends who've lost grieved and

896
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 2: lost children. You know, I've got a very good friend

897
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 2: of mine, Lana, who in Uni I met one of

898
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 2: my first Australian friends, and she lost one of her bubs,

899
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 2: you know, in a car accident. And she says, one

900
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 2: of the things I love is people mentioning him, like

901
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 2: not skipping over like oh, I've got three kids, and

902
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 2: then forgetting about the fourth one, you know. So I

903
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 2: feel like people don't do it because they're like, oh,

904
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 2: I don't want to bring it up. I don't want

905
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 2: to be that guy. But actually being the one is

906
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,800
Speaker 2: bringing it up for most people is kakatic.

907
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 3: Yeah. I was gonna say, yeah, it must be carkatic to.

908
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 2: Be at the time. Yeah, to just talk about the

909
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:43,359
Speaker 2: memories and share and even if it's the twentieth time

910
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 2: you've heard the story, let them share it because they

911
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 2: don't have lots of stories, so that one story they

912
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 2: have is it, So let them have their moment.

913
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 3: It's fine, that's really, that's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that,

914
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 3: because it's and I think asking you know, and I remember, okay,

915
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 3: now I'm giving my own advice. But like for some

916
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 3: if there's someone who's lost somebody, I think sometimes it's

917
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,359
Speaker 3: okay to ask how can I be there for you

918
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 3: or how can I you know, share the space, you know,

919
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 3: because it is it's not easy because you don't want

920
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:28,879
Speaker 3: to bring up the pain for the person. I think

921
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 3: that's why people are scared to ask but I think

922
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 3: it's also just being honest, Like, you know, this is

923
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 3: a very difficult space, and I know your mother or

924
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:42,279
Speaker 3: whoever held a special place in your life. How can

925
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:46,279
Speaker 3: I be there for you? If that makes sense? So yeah,

926
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 3: And I.

927
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:49,759
Speaker 2: Feel like once you've asked, most people are they're not

928
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 2: there in their journey where they can openly and freely

929
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 2: talk about it. Rather not they will tell you then

930
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 2: if they're fine to chat about it, they will, you know.

931
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's tough. It's time, especially like when you

932
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 2: are close and you feel like that's the one subject

933
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 2: you can't talk about.

934
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 3: Yes, it's tough, Like I.

935
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,320
Speaker 2: Know everything about this person apart from.

936
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the only way you can know more.

937
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 2: Is if you ask me.

938
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:28,839
Speaker 3: For sure. Well, I think for me, you know, in

939
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:32,319
Speaker 3: general about grief and loss, I don't know. I'm just

940
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 3: looking out my Bible now because it's something that it's

941
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 3: it's a verse and you can if you don't believe,

942
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 3: I think I don't know how else, Like we were

943
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,239
Speaker 3: talking about how we cope with death, I think for

944
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 3: me this is the one thing that really carries me

945
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:52,360
Speaker 3: and is the hope or what I hold on to.

946
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:58,799
Speaker 3: But for me, it's Revelations twenty one, verse four, and

947
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 3: it says he will wipe every tear from their eyes,

948
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 3: and there will be no more death or sorrow or

949
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 3: crying or pain. All these things are gone forever. And

950
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:12,400
Speaker 3: we actually sing him at church and I love it

951
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 3: in China sing a little bit. I don't know why

952
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:18,799
Speaker 3: I'm now just singing, singing reading Bible verses.

953
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:19,319
Speaker 2: But.

954
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:30,280
Speaker 7: Nika sing up berry moone gutaj so it's talking.

955
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 3: About the land of fadless day. I was just sing

956
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 3: the chorus action and it goes.

957
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 7: Mighty Chao guta ma sozi avis a kuna coach kann

958
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 7: ufu a kuna who see who.

959
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 3: That's one of my favorite favorite hymns, favorite verses, and

960
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 3: literally is saying what the verse says, which is that

961
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 3: in heaven, when we go to heaven, when all of

962
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,360
Speaker 3: a sudden done, there will be no night there. And

963
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 3: it's the hope we hold on to. And I think

964
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 3: that's grief or loss in whatever space you find yourself,

965
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 3: that this situation isn't forever. You know, there's a quote

966
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 3: I once read which said that everything will be okay

967
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 3: in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.

968
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 3: And it's to kind of say like it sucks, it hurts,

969
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 3: it's uncomfortable, it's painful, it's you know, but it won't

970
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 3: always feel that deep or that you know, there will

971
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 3: be other things to bring light into your life and hope.

972
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 3: So that's yeah, and talk about it to talk about

973
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 3: you know, and I'm saying this, and when I'm not

974
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 3: good at doing this, talk about the things that the

975
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:59,919
Speaker 3: things that the loss you feel in your life, where

976
00:57:59,920 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 3: you feel disappointed, where things can't go the way you

977
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 3: wanted them to go, where you know you didn't expect

978
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 3: to be heartbroken, like talk about cry. Allow your space

979
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 3: the room to feel those feelings and emotions because it's

980
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 3: only when we feel that we can kind of heal

981
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 3: from them. And it's not to say just wallow. It's

982
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 3: about saying, allow your space the room to feel, let

983
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 3: go and process and then you'll be able to once

984
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 3: you've shed, then maybe you'll be able to start taking

985
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 3: the day step at a time. So yeah, that's my

986
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 3: advice and.

987
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 2: Definitely speaking help. Definitely don't be afraid and people making

988
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 2: themselves available when things like that happen, when the dust

989
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 2: has settle, remembering chicken on their friends. It's a lot,

990
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:56,880
Speaker 2: and it's hard when you're also balancing your own life.

991
00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 2: But yeah, remember it.

992
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 3: Remember I suppose she can remember. Just be there for that.

993
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,479
Speaker 2: Person in that way, whether it's yeah, from a loved

994
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 2: one or heartbreak or and hey music music, and remember

995
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 2: you're singing for us beautifully. There's this track that I'm

996
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 2: absolutely loving from a fellow Zimbabwean k Chaps called Juicy

997
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 2: and Jersey, and it pretty much says, come and get it,

998
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 2: come and get your jersey.

999
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you.

1000
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 2: Know, remind us women listened for me of like Neo's

1001
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 2: so sick back in the day. You know, just a

1002
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 2: song you sing and you feel as if you were

1003
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 2: the one going through the heartbreak. So definitely, guys check

1004
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 2: that out. He does have an album called Banga, which

1005
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 2: means stars, and it goes into more songs about love

1006
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 2: and yeah, it's interesting. It's a good time to reflect

1007
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 2: on some of these things that we go through life

1008
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 2: and bring creation. What I mean, the best songs are

1009
00:59:56,320 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 2: love songs.

1010
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 3: For sure, because we can feel the on the heartbreak

1011
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 3: with the joy or sure awesome. Well, thank you so

1012
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 3: much for tuning in with us for another episode of

1013
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 3: It's Layered it's good to be bad.

1014
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 2: Leasion two.

1015
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 3: We're excited and of course you can always always hit

1016
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 3: us up. You can email us. It's layered cod at

1017
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 3: gmail dot com. We're on install gee okay, I don't

1018
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 3: know why, or on Instagram and faithful it's layered, and

1019
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 3: share your thoughts, how you know, your experiences, your questions, anything.

1020
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 3: We are here for it because awesome. Thanks and.

1021
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:50,360
Speaker 2: Love you so much.

1022
01:00:51,640 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 3: Bye bye guys. Yeah oh no, no no