1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,519 Speaker 1: When you are sitting on the couch mastering your Netflix 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: and hill watching show after show, do you ever consider 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: the thousands of scripts that never even made it off 4 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 1: the ground, the hours of work that will never ever 5 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: be seen. How did the big TV execs know which 6 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: ideas to back and which ideas to scrap and which 7 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: ideas were going to be the ones keeping you on 8 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: that couch while you binge your night away. A man 9 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: who does just that, who knows what you're going to 10 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: enjoy before you do, is Chris Oliver Taylor. He's the 11 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: CEO of Asia Pacific for production and entertainment company Freemantle. 12 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: Fremantle has produced shows including Farmer Wants a Wife, Australia's 13 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: Got Talent, Family Feud, Restoration Australia Wentworth and Neighbors, to 14 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: name just a few. Chris has worked in production roles 15 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,639 Speaker 1: for the BBC, AB, NBC Universal and played a hand 16 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: in Australian comedy classics like Kath and Kim and Summer 17 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: Heights High. So how can Chris tell if an idea 18 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 1: is worth backing? And what are the big TV execs 19 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: looking for when commissioning new ideas? And when should you 20 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 1: follow your gut over process when making big decisions. My 21 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: name is doctor Amantha Imber. I'm an organizational psychologist and 22 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: the founder of behavioral science consultancy invent Him. And this 23 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: is how I work, a show about how to help 24 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: you do your best work. So Chris is based in 25 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: Melbourne where I am, but Fremantle's head officers are in Sydney. 26 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: So I wanted to know how will Chris be working 27 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: now that borders are opening back up in Australia, given 28 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: that he used to fly to Sydney every single week 29 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: pre COVID. 30 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 2: Well, I used to do it every week pretty much, 31 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 2: and I think that will clearly change or change. 32 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 3: I think for two reasons. 33 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 2: One, there's not quite the same demand for it to 34 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 2: manage people and to be around people. I think people 35 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 2: are much more you know that includes networks, CHALL seven, ABC, 36 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 2: CHALL nine etc. I think they all are very happy 37 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 2: working at home as well and working remotely. And then 38 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 2: the other thing, which I think also is not just 39 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 2: restricted to the job I do or to the business 40 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:24,679 Speaker 2: I work in. 41 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 3: Is budgets. 42 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,519 Speaker 2: It costs me lots of money to jump on a plane, 43 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 2: lots of time, and yet I can. 44 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 3: Be much more efficient. 45 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 2: I think for the most part working out of home, 46 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 2: working in one place, using whatever technology that might be 47 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 2: be at Zoom or Google, hangouts or teams or whatever 48 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 2: we use. And I think we'll find that will be 49 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 2: the new norm for many, many meetings. And what I 50 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 2: probably plan to do is once a month, say is 51 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 2: go to Sydney and try and do a number of 52 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 2: drinks or dinners or lunches or breakfasts and just keep 53 00:02:55,760 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 2: their physical connection going. But for general meetings I think 54 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 2: I would do in them remomently. 55 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: Now I've heard that you try to keep your meetings 56 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: to thirty minutes. How do you manage to achieve that? 57 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 3: Well? I fail often, of course. 58 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 2: But the plan is that so I have a couple 59 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,679 Speaker 2: of rules on the meetings where possible, so one is 60 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 2: half an hour and then some time either side of 61 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 2: the meeting. That doesn't always work, but if possible, just 62 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 2: so you can prepare, and also so you can action 63 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 2: whatever you've agreed to action. And what it was finding, 64 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: particularly in the first part of the pandemic, for all 65 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 2: those benefits I've just outlined around efficiency and ability not 66 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 2: to spend my life on planes, but actually we do 67 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 2: some work. 68 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 3: What happened in the first on Melbourne, so many many 69 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 3: months of. 70 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 2: Lockdown we had was that I would then my DARI 71 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: would then become so forth with meetings because it was 72 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 2: easy to do that. I could have the meetings but 73 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 2: do no work, and so certainly through all through twenty 74 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 2: one we've changed that. So half an hour meetings allows 75 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 2: one to be a bit more efficient. I think people 76 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 2: do get zoom tired as well and just need a 77 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 2: bit of a relaxation and change, And I think secondly 78 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 2: allows the work to be done. So I'm quite pretty 79 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 2: focused on that. There's a couple of meetings we go longer, 80 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 2: but for the most part that's what we do. And 81 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 2: then the other rule I have is no meetings where 82 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 2: possible on a Friday, So we just try and keep 83 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 2: that clear as day, so that day as clear as 84 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 2: we can, because I think this that allows the things 85 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 2: you didn't think about that we turn up that you've 86 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 2: got time, and also the work that you need to do, 87 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,679 Speaker 2: the thinking work, be that strategic or be that looking 88 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 2: at budgets or selling operational plans, whatever it might be, 89 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 2: that gives you at least one day a week to 90 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 2: get your head down and do some of the thinking. 91 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: I've heard that you categorize meetings into three different types. 92 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: Can you talk about how you got to that categorization 93 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 1: and what it consists of. 94 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 3: So broadly I trying to live by this. 95 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,359 Speaker 2: We have a lot of internal stakeholders, so operational meetings 96 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 2: that are important, you know, so that with our drama team, 97 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 2: or be that with our entertainment team, or finance or 98 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 2: legal and et cetera, et cetera. They're half of our 99 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 2: meetings that are always about continued touch points and making 100 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 2: sure the business is moving now in a pandemic, really 101 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 2: important because obviously we couldn't get around to be on 102 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 2: the ground, so we had to keep on those touch points. 103 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 2: But we've continued that work. So that's the first one 104 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 2: operational internal. The second one is external, and we have 105 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 2: less control of those meetings. We are a production company, 106 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 2: a producer, and so fundamentally our job is thinking of 107 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 2: good ideas and then trying to get Netflix or Amazon 108 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 2: or the ABC or Foxtail or CHANL nine to buy 109 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 2: that idea. And that's effectively what we do in the 110 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 2: first part, and then we if we in success, we 111 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 2: then get to produce it. So the external meetings are 112 00:05:55,560 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 2: driven by firstly the idea, the idea of Pipelin, how 113 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 2: many do we have when we're going to go and 114 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,119 Speaker 2: talk to networks, And then secondly by of course the 115 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 2: enthusiasm by the networks and how long. 116 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 3: They would like to talk to us. 117 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 2: So the second one we have less control over, but 118 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 2: they're really really important. They are the key way of 119 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 2: generating work. And the third one is the kind of 120 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 2: the bit why I don't apply the half an hour 121 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 2: role where possible to it, which is the strategic set 122 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:27,919 Speaker 2: of meetings that are hold and that might well be 123 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 2: with my colleagues in London in International freem International, or 124 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 2: with my leadership team domestically, where we just carve our 125 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 2: time to monitor the external environment, to ensure that our 126 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 2: plans are in place, to ensure that we're delivering as 127 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 2: we think we should be, and to understand what's going 128 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 2: on with a very very fast moving market. So they're 129 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 2: the three ways that I categorize internal which I kind 130 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 2: of generally call operational networks or external meetings, and then 131 00:06:58,080 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 2: strategic meetings. 132 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: Interested in the external meetings which are essentially sales meetings 133 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 1: where you're pitching an idea, So what are the strategies 134 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: that you use to get companies that are receiving pictures 135 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: ad nauseum excited about the stuff that you're working on 136 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: at Fremantle. 137 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 3: If only I knew the answer. I think it comes 138 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 3: down to two or three things, right. 139 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 2: So One, it does come down to friendships, and I 140 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 2: don't mean that facetiously. I mean that people do like 141 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 2: to buy from people they know. I think that's again 142 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 2: not just unique to the television business. And so we 143 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 2: have long, long friendships with many networks who have been 144 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 2: former colleagues or. 145 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 3: Former employees. 146 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 2: And so we then look at the company and figure 147 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 2: out who is the best person to make the initial approach. 148 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 2: Is it me is the CEO, or is it someone 149 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 2: else who has just left Amazon for the sake of 150 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 2: an example, who knows that team well. So we strategize 151 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 2: who's the best person to make the connection, who is 152 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 2: going to find a way to cut through. Secondly, it's 153 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 2: all about the idea, of course. So we can probably 154 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 2: get most meetings that we would like because I think 155 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 2: we tend to going with very good ideas and people 156 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 2: do want to hear from us. But that doesn't mean 157 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 2: we win every commission, of course, And so we have 158 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 2: to make sure the idea is just absolutely fantastic. And 159 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 2: so to do that you need to know the market 160 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 2: that you're dealing with. And then we try and tease 161 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 2: the buyer with that we've got this amazing idea with 162 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 2: this talent or with this location or with this whatever 163 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 2: I be, and that's going to work for your core 164 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,959 Speaker 2: audience because of and it's a simple, a simple way 165 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 2: of trying to get them to engage with us, to say, 166 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 2: you know what, that sounds like quite a good idea. 167 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 3: Let's have that conversation. 168 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 2: And then when in of course, when it's over to 169 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 2: the cell and we don't always get them, of course, 170 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 2: but we like to think we're quite good at pitching 171 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,359 Speaker 2: and selling, but it's trying to get that first conversation. 172 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 2: So using your connections is fundamental. You know, whatsapping, texts, 173 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 2: teams or so signal, all those kind of things are 174 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:02,199 Speaker 2: great saying hey, got this great idea, we think it's 175 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 2: for you. Would you take a pitch? Yep, love to 176 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 2: hear more and then you can go more formally. We 177 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 2: use all those kind of tactics and strategies to stand 178 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 2: out for the crowd. 179 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: So with presenting the actual idea. How are you doing that? 180 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: Like what communication tools are you using? Is it like 181 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,839 Speaker 1: a one minute pitch, like it's this meets that, or 182 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: is it a half hour you know, in depth discussion 183 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: about the idea? What does that look like? 184 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 2: We were going to a pitch normally with two or 185 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 2: three of our own people, so myself plus two other 186 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 2: people normally on the other side, there's probably two or 187 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 2: three people from the network as well, so it's probably 188 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 2: five or sex of us on the call. Could be 189 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 2: in person, could be via tech. And then we will 190 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 2: present what we would have rehearsed it two or three 191 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 2: times beforehand going in. We all know what we're going 192 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 2: to say, and we try and lead off, So I'll 193 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 2: try and lead the pitch off and then throw to 194 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 2: whoever's going to lead the pitch, might be the producer 195 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 2: or director or a writer, depending on what we're pitching. 196 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 2: We would normally show a reel, so we'd normally cut 197 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 2: a little sissle reel if we've got the if we've 198 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 2: got the footage that we need, so we'd normally try 199 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 2: and show that to bring some life and color and 200 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 2: movement to the conversation. And we will always have a 201 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 2: pitch deck, so we'll always have a document that might 202 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 2: be between seven and fifteen pages long that tells the 203 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 2: buyer what the show is, and that will take you 204 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 2: through everything from the format of the show, how many episodes, 205 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 2: who we think should be in it, or who's writing it. 206 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 3: The story is a little different between the genres that 207 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 3: the key points the same, and we will try and 208 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,439 Speaker 3: get through all of that in fifteen minutes and then 209 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 3: allow the last fifteen minutes for conversation and questions. That's 210 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 3: how it should work, or how we like to make 211 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,559 Speaker 3: it work. I have pitched to a network before with 212 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 3: a color of my colleagues, and you could tell within 213 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 3: about fifteen second of starting that they hated the idea 214 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 3: and we're not going to buy the show, to such 215 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 3: a point that after probably a minute thirty I wrapped 216 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 3: it up and just said, hey, this is it for 217 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 3: you guys, let's call it. And they were very good. 218 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 2: They were very very I think they appreciated that because 219 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 2: they get so many different pictures. But we just haven't 220 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 2: got it right. We just haven't got it right. And 221 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 2: that was fine, that was okay, a good learning for us. 222 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,319 Speaker 2: But we just called it early and didn't waste their 223 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 2: time or our time. More so, hopefully you get half 224 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 2: an hour, sometimes you get twenty seconds. 225 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: Have you got any rules of thumb for how you 226 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: I guess initially describe an idea like in a nutshell 227 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: to hook people in. 228 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 3: So there's a few ways you can do it, of course, 229 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 3: so you can in drama. The way that many people 230 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 3: do it is it's a bit like succession, but it's 231 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 3: a bit like. 232 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 2: Total control or whatever to get an idea like that, 233 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 2: and you're trying to put a sense of what it 234 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 2: feels like in tone to the room. There's a risk 235 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,319 Speaker 2: of that, of course, is that maybe someone doesn't like succession, 236 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 2: or maybe someone's already got succession on their network, in 237 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 2: which case why they need another one. So you've got 238 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 2: to be carefulbout that. I think we try and do 239 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 2: it so that if you can't pitch the show in 240 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 2: one line or half a sentence and let the person 241 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 2: understand what it is you are struggling to cut through. 242 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 2: And so we work very very hard on that log 243 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 2: line to really make sure that the buyer, who's probably 244 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 2: know who might have ten meetings that day with ten 245 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 2: different producers trying to sell things. We want them to 246 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 2: walk away at the end of the day with Jesus 247 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 2: A good pitch and God, I really understood that it 248 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 2: was a drama setting the Northern Territory. 249 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 3: And a boy fell in love with a girl. Great, 250 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 3: get it, love it. 251 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: Now you're also on the receiving end of pitches. I 252 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: would imagine that that is a significant part of what 253 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: you do and what you have done in your career. 254 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: What are the things that you're listening for when someone 255 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: is pitching you an idea? 256 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 2: So almost the same things we just discussed on enough, 257 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 2: the three things I look for, particularly in drama, and 258 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 2: the idea, Funnily enough, is not necessarily the most important bit. 259 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 2: And the reason for that, which might sound strange to 260 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 2: your listeners. Why do we not came about the idea? 261 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 2: We do? But ideas are so ubiquitous and bluntly, I 262 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 2: don't know what Netflix wants in the UK or what 263 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 2: Amazon might want in the US. 264 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 3: We don't know. And we used to know all that. 265 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,199 Speaker 2: We used to know the Australian market inside out and 266 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 2: back to front. We would know exactly what an ABC 267 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 2: should look like or exactly what a Channel seven sheld 268 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 2: look like. But the world's moved on, and now we're 269 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 2: dealing with multiple networks all over the world and trying 270 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 2: to work out their commissioning strategy. So the idea actually 271 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,839 Speaker 2: is kind of on the page but not necessarily the 272 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 2: most important part in drama. For me, it's three things. 273 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 2: The first thing goes to IP intellectual property. Is the 274 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 2: story based on something? Is it a book? Is it 275 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 2: a play? Is it a true story? Is it someone's 276 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 2: deep recollections about their childhood, etcetera, etcetera. 277 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 3: Is that a magazine article? Is it a podcast? Because 278 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 3: what we. 279 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 2: Find buyers are looking for at the moment is something 280 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 2: that has depth to it. So not always as a rule, 281 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 2: but I think often. And a show that we are 282 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 2: working on now, we'd set in the surfing industries, is 283 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 2: based loosely on something that happened back in the seventies. 284 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 3: We've been inspired by that and we'll. 285 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 2: Moving forward in the storylining. But that was the initial 286 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 2: pitch that came in. So we're looking for IP in 287 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 2: the first instance, where is the depth? If it hasn't 288 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 2: got there, Okay, not the end of the world. But 289 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 2: the next thing we're looking for is who's going to 290 00:14:55,080 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 2: write it? And this might again seem astranging to say, 291 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 2: but there's so there's only so many amazing writers in 292 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 2: the world. Networks are always looking to want to work 293 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 2: with the best writers that they can. 294 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 3: Writers often have their own ideas, and so it can 295 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 3: be quite hard to attract a writer to somebody else's idea. 296 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 3: So somebody walks in there with I've optioned this book, 297 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 3: I've got this great writer on board to adapt it 298 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 3: for me. I'm very very interested. It means that we 299 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 3: can start to move forward with development because the third 300 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 3: part of my the way I assess is is there 301 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 3: a market, Is there a financing plan? Does it kind 302 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 3: of make sense to take this out? And a simple 303 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 3: way looking at it that way is if we had 304 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 3: an amazing, amazing science fiction show that comes in with 305 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 3: a great writer, but the budget is ten million dollars 306 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 3: an episode. Now I cannot pitch that to the ABC 307 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 3: or SBS, or for me, any of our networks locally, 308 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 3: it's impossible. The only way you. 309 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 2: Can pitch that is into the national spods and therefore 310 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 2: you then need. 311 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 3: Significant international talent to come forward. 312 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 2: So we're looking at the feasibility in that last section, 313 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 2: what do we think the market might want is it 314 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 2: worth our time, money effort to push this show if 315 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 2: we don't believe we can. 316 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 3: Get it there? 317 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: How about for people, because I imagine I'm sure that there'd 318 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: be listeners going I've got a great idea for a 319 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: TV show. Chris like, how do you like? What advice 320 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: do you have for almost coaching people that do have 321 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: dreams of pitching a TV idea and getting it onto screens? 322 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: What do you say to people? 323 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 2: So it's hard not to kill dreams, right, So we 324 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 2: don't really do that because great ideas come from anywhere, 325 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 2: and this is the problem. They can come from anywhere, 326 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 2: and you don't have to be an inverted commerce TV 327 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 2: producer or writer to bring up a new TV idea. 328 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 2: We're lucky in Australia. Every single state and territory has 329 00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 2: a funding body. So in Victoria that's Film Victoria. In 330 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 2: useth Wales that's Create newseth Wales. And these are government 331 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 2: funded professional screen bodies and one of their key jobs 332 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 2: is to develop the next level of talent to come 333 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 2: through into the system, and so they are always looking 334 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 2: for ideas, They are always looking at how they develop 335 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 2: people to pitch. They will fund things as well and 336 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 2: that's offered a very very good way to get my attention. 337 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 3: If a show comes in which has been developed with 338 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 3: one of those. 339 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 2: Funding bodies and then they're looking for a producer, it 340 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 2: instantly puts them towards the top of the queue because 341 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 2: of one or two things. Firstly, a government body who 342 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 2: ultimately may even end up helping us a finance the 343 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,719 Speaker 2: show has thought the idea is strong enough to warrant funding, 344 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 2: so that's good, someone's done some work and assessment on it. 345 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 2: And then secondly the idea is further developed professionally then 346 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 2: it would have been if they came straight into me. 347 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 2: So some of the work that we would have to 348 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 2: do has already been done by the means. So if 349 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,159 Speaker 2: one of the keep its advices, look at your local 350 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 2: funding body, and again that all over the world as well. 351 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 2: Different states in America and the UK, Screen Yorkshire, all 352 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 2: these things as many of similar bodies all over the world. 353 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 2: But Australia has everyone in every state and territory, and 354 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 2: we also have a federal funding body called Screen Australia, 355 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 2: which again does something similar. So I would encourage people 356 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 2: to look into those spaces, and I'll also encourage people 357 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 2: to look at particularly SBS, Netflix and the ABC, all 358 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 2: of which are doing things at the emerging is not 359 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 2: quite the right work that would suggest very young. 360 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 3: It doesn't mean that, it just means less experienced. 361 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 2: I guess so people who are less experienced or people 362 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 2: who have not got credits, they're always looking for short 363 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 2: form ideas or online ideas and often will look there 364 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 2: as well to see what can we turn into a 365 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 2: long form TV show. So use the system in Australia 366 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 2: to put your idea above everyone else's. 367 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 3: And remember this is a competition. 368 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 2: So there's so many ideas and so many people pitching 369 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 2: things in how do you stand out? Use the funding bodies, 370 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 2: use the networks at a junior level, and then listen 371 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 2: maybe to something I've said, and know that others would say, 372 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 2: what do I look for IP, talent and feasibility? Other 373 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 2: Flushing companies might have slightly different ways of looking, but 374 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,640 Speaker 2: they'll broadly be the same. I would think, how does 375 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 2: your idea fit into that pathway? 376 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: Chris will be back very soon talking about how the 377 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: head of one of the country's biggest production houses decides 378 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: what to watch on TV and also what is he 379 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: looking for in that very first episode to decide if 380 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: a show is worth committing to. Now, if you're looking 381 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 1: for more tips to improve the way that you work, 382 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: I write a short fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool 383 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 1: things that I've discovered that helped me work better, which 384 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: range from interesting research findings through the gadgets and software 385 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: that I'm loving. You can sign up for that at 386 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: Howiwork dot co. That's how I Work dot co. That's 387 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: something I'm curious about is the head of one of 388 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: the country's biggest production houses. What's your approach to consuming content? 389 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 2: So I skim content as much as I can. You know, 390 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 2: one of the things you hear for networks often is 391 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 2: please don't picture shows that we already have on our schedule, 392 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 2: which does happen more than you might think. It's probably 393 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 2: more likely to happen now because with the you know, 394 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 2: the rise of the espots with Disney and Netflix, Amazon, Apple, 395 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 2: it's impossible to watch everything, and so you are trying 396 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,360 Speaker 2: to get a center of what's on their platforms and 397 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 2: trying to get a center of what's resonating Frustralian audiences. 398 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 2: So I will watch the first episode of everything that 399 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 2: I can be Entertainment factual, documentary, drama, film, whatever I can. 400 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 3: I'll travel with the first episode. 401 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 2: Hard to watch every episode because I'll never get anything 402 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 2: else done. But try on the first one and then 403 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 2: now and again. I find things that I absolutely love 404 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 2: and want to watch for fun. But from a work 405 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 2: point of you watch the first of everything you possibly 406 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 2: can that's made out of Australia. 407 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: So what are you looking for in that first episode. 408 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 2: I'm looking to work out why they got the commission 409 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 2: that I didn't. I'm looking to see who they've cast. 410 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 2: I'm looking to see the degree of originality that's on 411 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 2: a particular show. It's different for entertainment or factual or drama, 412 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 2: but you fundamentally the same. 413 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 3: I'm looking to see. 414 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,959 Speaker 2: We're in a wonderful business where all of my competitors 415 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 2: work is completely public. We can see it all and 416 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 2: so that if you use it rightly hopefully can help 417 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 2: your work get better. Can also help you identify great 418 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,679 Speaker 2: talent that's out there. I wonder who the writer of 419 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 2: that episode was. I really enjoyed it. I wonder who 420 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 2: that you know more Junior character is a wonderful actor, 421 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 2: but they haven't on a main role. 422 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 3: I wonder who they are, what's their name? Where are they? 423 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 2: And then also looking for how they're telling stories, how 424 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 2: they connect, and then that allows me to have an opinion, 425 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 2: not necessarily right, but an opinion of why that series 426 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 2: was brought by the network, and that hopefully helps me 427 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 2: then start to work out what do we do next 428 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 2: to make sure we get the next one. 429 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: Now something I experienced Chris, and I was actually talking 430 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: to a friend yesterday. I feel like when I watched TV, 431 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 1: I often experience TV guilt, where I feel like I 432 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,479 Speaker 1: could be doing something more productive in inverted commas with 433 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 1: my time, like reading, for example, as opposed to actually 434 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: doing work at my computer. And I want to know, like, 435 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: what's it like for you when you watch TV, because 436 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: that's part of your job, Like is it easy for 437 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 1: you to just relax into it or are you actually 438 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,959 Speaker 1: in a kind of hypercritical analytical state sort of you know, 439 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: analyzing things. 440 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 3: Somewhere between the two? I think. 441 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 2: So, I think if I really want to watch something 442 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 2: for work and really probably analyze it, I will watch 443 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 2: it at work and just take the time and sit down, 444 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 2: press pause and look at the credits and figure that 445 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 2: stuff out. And I do. I did that today on 446 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 2: the show. I actually I just said, look at what 447 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 2: was going on. But I think for the most part, 448 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 2: you know, once you get to the evening sit down 449 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 2: with your family or watching things for different reasons, so 450 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,439 Speaker 2: you know, I'm thoroughly enjoying watching One Division with my 451 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 2: daughter who is fifteen, But that's a different that's not 452 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 2: work in any central form apart from marveling though punintended 453 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 2: at the brilliance of it and the cleverness of it, 454 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 2: but beyond that's that's just a. 455 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 3: Different level to where we sit. 456 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 2: So I can sit back and enjoy that without being 457 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 2: guilty or without working O years ago. 458 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 3: Wow, that is a great piece of television. 459 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: Where do you go to for recommendations? Because I imagine 460 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: that there are probably people listening that you know, maybe 461 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 1: they've binge watched something and they're looking for what should 462 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: they consume next? And sometimes I feel that way. And 463 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: also for my daughter who's seven and a half, I'm like, 464 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: what should I be putting into her brain? TV wise? 465 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: So we're like, where are the go to sources of 466 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 1: inspiration and knowing what we should watch. 467 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 2: I think that's tricky for me because I'm not one 468 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 2: of the cool kids that I don't know any social media, 469 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 2: so I don't get pushed it from that way in 470 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 2: any sense, but I do. 471 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 3: I mean, I think there's a professional recommendation. 472 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 2: So you get people in and around our business that 473 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 2: obviously a lot of your. 474 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 3: Listeners won't be able to get. But you know, we 475 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:18,880 Speaker 3: get people. 476 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,400 Speaker 2: Saying grant riders saying, hey, you see this, this is amazing, 477 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 2: and if they recommend it, you think, wow, I better 478 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 2: watch this. But I also find there are semi professional 479 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 2: websites that I take a lot of insight from. 480 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 3: A great one that I would recommend. 481 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 2: Called TV Tonight, which is completely free and TV Tonight 482 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 2: is run by a general all Adobe Knox, and he 483 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 2: will do reviews of things, but he'll also talk about 484 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 2: the industry as a whole, said lots of great If 485 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 2: anyone's interested in TV in Australia, it's a great place 486 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 2: to go because it just summarizes what's happening every single day. 487 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 2: It also publicizes things like the TV ratings and you 488 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 2: know who's moving from A to B and who got 489 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 2: commissioned and who didn't. But it almost has a section 490 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 2: and the show that I watched so sorry it was, 491 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 2: but the show was this morning was based off a 492 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 2: recommendation from that website that I saw yesterday, but I 493 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 2: must check that out, and I did today. So TV 494 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,959 Speaker 2: Tonight is something I go to. It's semi professional in 495 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 2: terms of your listeners, but it's somewhere that I like 496 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 2: to go to because I think it cuts through a 497 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 2: lot of the high purposely you can sometimes get with reviewers. 498 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 2: It actually goes into a more professional way of looking 499 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 2: at TV, but still very much more enjoyment point of view. 500 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: You mentioned that one of the one of the things 501 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: that make sales easier is selling to friends, and people 502 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: want to buy from people that they like. So what's 503 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:45,679 Speaker 1: been your approach to networking and building relationships over the 504 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: many years that you've been in the industry. 505 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 3: There's a few ways of doing it. 506 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 2: We're lucky in our industry that there are a number 507 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 2: of big social events at award nights or be that, 508 00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:00,680 Speaker 2: big conferences that probably pre pandemic, of course, happened four 509 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 2: or five times a year, and most of the sector 510 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 2: would go along, and so you'd always attend those things, 511 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 2: and you then build those connections, and you build those 512 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 2: through social events and through dinners and through meetings and 513 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 2: through tending things together. That's very important and becomes very 514 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 2: important in twenty two as they all start to come 515 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 2: online again. I think the other thing is always to 516 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 2: remember that people move up and down and sideways. It 517 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 2: isn't always a linear model or a linear environment, and 518 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 2: so you want people to be a good person. Respect everyone, 519 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 2: be authentic and truthful to who you are, but also 520 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 2: respect who they are, and hopefully not just use connections 521 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 2: and friendships to get the next commission, because it doesn't 522 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 2: work that way. I think it comes down to trust, 523 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 2: and it comes down to being someone who accepts rejection 524 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 2: a lot, because on this side of the fence you 525 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 2: get lots of rejection. Accept it well, and then the 526 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 2: other thing you must do is deliver well. And so 527 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 2: for all of the connections being fundamentally important, they are 528 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 2: if your work isn't good enough, you won't get the 529 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 2: next show. So your work has to always be as 530 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 2: world class as it can be. 531 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 3: Budget is the key thing there, and. 532 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 2: Certainly it must hit the objectives of your buyer a 533 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 2: friend or not. And then getting through the front door, 534 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 2: I think is about a trust in the first place. 535 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:30,360 Speaker 1: Now you mentioned events is being important for maintaining networks, 536 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 1: And I'd love to know how you approach an event 537 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 1: because I mean, it would be really easy to just 538 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: get stuck talking to one person for the whole night 539 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,239 Speaker 1: if you see it next to them. So what's your 540 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: approach for really making the most of them? 541 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 2: Well, look, it can happen, and I'm you know, I'm 542 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 2: reasonbly well known. So if I go into a conference, 543 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 2: people and I'm also six foot three tool with a 544 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 2: big bald head, so people can normally find me. And 545 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 2: I think I'm approachable and I like to think that 546 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 2: people can and should come and talk to me and 547 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 2: say gooday, and vice versa. But I've also going to 548 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 2: be pragmatic that and it's the same for that person 549 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 2: I'm talking to. Often if you go to there's a 550 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 2: big conference called Screen Forever, which is run by the 551 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 2: Screen Producers of Australia, which will run I think in 552 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 2: March next year. It's normally November, and you might get 553 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 2: twelve hundred people going to that event, and it costs 554 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 2: a fair bit of money to attend, so I'm very 555 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 2: clear that I'm attending what I'm often speaking of those 556 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 2: things that. 557 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 3: I can't afford to get stuck for an hour with someone. 558 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 2: I've got a few minutes here and there to kind 559 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 2: of meet people who have not booked in meetings, and 560 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 2: I kind of owe it to them to do the 561 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 2: same thing. So what I say to people is this is, 562 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 2: you know, this might sound old fashioned, but it's the 563 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 2: best way of doing I find. Bring a business card, 564 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 2: say good day, you know, interrupt me if I'm having 565 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 2: a cup of tea with someone, you know, as you 566 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 2: want to, and then give me a card and I'll 567 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 2: send you a note afterwards. I mean connect up in 568 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 2: a slightly more quieter time where I'm not stuck in a. 569 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 3: Corner and i can't get out out. 570 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 2: But more importantly, they're not start wasting time and effort 571 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 2: on me where they could use that time to make 572 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 2: better connections or make more connections. So I'm quite keen 573 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 2: on that to say, hey, let's we've got time now, 574 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 2: great to meet you. Give me a card, or maybe 575 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 2: we can exchange via the iPhone or whatever. But give 576 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 2: me a card and then we'll know. We'll connect up 577 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 2: in the next week or two. And then I always 578 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 2: say them, you've got to send me a note, you know, 579 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 2: You've got to kind of you've got to force this 580 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 2: because I will get lots and lots of requests, which 581 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 2: is good as they would as well. But you must 582 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 2: make sure that you drop me a line and I'll 583 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 2: get straight back to you. And I'm pretty good at 584 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 2: doing that and meeting up with people. 585 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 3: What I don't like. 586 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 2: To receive lots of these conferences is pitches for ideas, 587 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 2: So I try and stress that don't pitch met at conferences. 588 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 3: One. 589 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 2: I can't give you my full attention until I know 590 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 2: that if you're pitching it to me at the conference, 591 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 2: you're also pitch it to no doubt fifty other people. 592 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 2: So make me feel a bit special and make this 593 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 2: feel like this is for you as opposed to I'm 594 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 2: at a conference, I'm just going to scatter gun an 595 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 2: idea all over the So make a connection, make it quick, 596 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 2: leave a business card, and then follow that up with 597 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 2: me in the week following and we'll get a cup 598 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 2: of TV. 599 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: Now, I imagine that you would have received a lot of 600 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: career advice over your illustrious career. I'd love to know 601 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: what are some pieces of advice that have stuck with 602 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: you and really served you well. 603 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 2: There's two bits. One's facetious and funny maybe, but important. 604 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 2: Other ones maybe more serious. So the first one was 605 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 2: come from a wonderful former colleague of mine called Sandra Levy. 606 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 2: And Sandra used to with the direction of TV at 607 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 2: the ABC and a esteemed media leader, wonderful, wonderful person 608 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 2: who gained my break at the ABC when she didn't 609 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 2: need to, and she offered me the job as head 610 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 2: of production, probably years before I was ready. And I 611 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 2: came up to Sydney for Melbourne and I was in 612 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 2: my jeans and T shirt and bounded into the office 613 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 2: ready for this meeting with Sandra. That sound was quite 614 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 2: formidable and a very I didn't know her at all well, 615 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 2: so thinking, oh, okay, fine, So I went in there 616 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 2: and we had the contentment of the job. 617 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 3: Do you want the job? Yes, I'd love the job. Good, 618 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 3: go and buy yourself a suit. 619 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 2: With her advice, and I think what that meant to mean, 620 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 2: I took it kind of heart, was smart enough, you know, 621 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 2: be professional. This is this is important, and you've got 622 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 2: to have an image to some degree that you know 623 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 2: the chords with the organization you work for or the 624 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 2: role that you hold, or of course the image you. 625 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 3: Want to project. 626 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 2: And that even though you may not quite meant it 627 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 2: in that way. 628 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 3: I took that away. 629 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 2: Actually advice around Remember you're always on show, you're always auditioning, 630 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 2: you're always performing, you're always pitching, and so make sure 631 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 2: that how you're projecting yourself matches who you are working with. 632 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 2: And so I've always get that very front center. And 633 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 2: the second one, which is really I think for producers 634 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 2: to take heed of. You know people on this side 635 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 2: offense that I am. As I was leaving the ABC 636 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 2: to join match Box, they were owned by NBC, and 637 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 2: my NBC boss said to me, the name as Michael 638 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 2: Michael Edlston and have a really amazing leader who I 639 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 2: learned so much from. Michael said, now, remember at the ABC, 640 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 2: you can do nothing. You can send no emails, make 641 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 2: no phone calls, never leave your office if you like, 642 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 2: and the work will pile up outside your door. You'll 643 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 2: open your door and there'll be a thousand people wanting 644 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 2: you to sign something and answer this and do that, 645 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 2: because you're in a broadcaster and work just happens. Once 646 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 2: you leave that and you join the other side where 647 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 2: you have to generate everything. If you do nothing, nothing happens. 648 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 2: You have to generate everything, Generate momentum, generate those phone calls, 649 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 2: generate relationships, and generate a culture. And I've always kept 650 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 2: that really front and center, that if you do nothing 651 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 2: outside of a most jobs, if you do nothing, nothing happens. 652 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 2: You have to generate everything and make it happen. And 653 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 2: so I've kept that really close to me as i've 654 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 2: my career has continued on. 655 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: Now for people that want to connect with the work 656 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: that you're pretty seeing your good self, Chris, what is 657 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: the best way for listeners to do that? 658 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,719 Speaker 2: I use LinkedIn quite a lot. That's the only social 659 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 2: media that I'm on, and people can find me. There 660 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 2: is a simple way of doing it. It's reasonably easy 661 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 2: to find me because I've got a very unique name, 662 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 2: so I can't hide, which is good. 663 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 3: And again I'm very. 664 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 2: Happy to take unswers of emails, but too they want advice. 665 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 2: I'm very happy to kind of give you my two 666 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 2: penage worth of how I see the world, really happy 667 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 2: to And there's an advice I gave to a group 668 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 2: the other day I was talking to. I won't name 669 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 2: who the organization was, becauld it'd be unfair, but talking 670 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 2: about sixty people on a zoom call and as myself 671 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 2: another very senior producer from a different company. And at 672 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 2: the end of it, I said, and they're all emerging 673 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 2: filmmakers in their own way. At the end of it, 674 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 2: I said, I think the most important thing in our 675 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 2: business is being connected. 676 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 3: And it's a competition. There are thousands of. 677 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 2: People who would love to be in our business and 678 00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 2: there are not that many opportunities, and so the best 679 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 2: way to do is connect to people. Connect on me, 680 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 2: connect to my colleague who's on the pound as well, 681 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 2: and others. Go and find out where they are. You 682 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 2: can find people. You just have to figure it out. 683 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 2: And there are six or so people I think on 684 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:12,800 Speaker 2: this call, and I said, I bet you're on a 685 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 2: few only a handful. 686 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 3: Contact mate. 687 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 2: Even though I've said could do it, four people did 688 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,239 Speaker 2: of that, meaning that's my consistent it. Maybe it's just 689 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 2: me and man, maybe it's me, but I don't think 690 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:24,799 Speaker 2: of it. I think it's kind of one of those 691 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,759 Speaker 2: things that people don't do it. They don't reach out 692 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 2: enough because they feel I don't know if they feel rejectioned. 693 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 2: I fear that I won't respond. I fear that they're 694 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,839 Speaker 2: going to be you know that it's a silly thing 695 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 2: that they I don't know, but I do know that 696 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 2: people have got breaks by just contacting me and being 697 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,320 Speaker 2: in and around the business and starting at the bottom 698 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 2: off and working the way up, or just being opportunistic 699 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,399 Speaker 2: and sending in a CV or having a cup of tea, 700 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 2: or just saying, hey, who do you know? You know 701 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 2: I want to work in this part of the business. 702 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:54,840 Speaker 2: Do you know anyone at Amazon? 703 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 3: Yeah? I do, I do. 704 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 2: Actually, I think canec you someone? Or do you know 705 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 2: it's on the AB said yeah, sure, where you want 706 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 2: to go. People need to reach out, and if they 707 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 2: don't reach out, they're on their own, and it's just 708 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 2: much harder on their own. So I found this in 709 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 2: my career that many people in rooms they don't reach out, 710 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 2: they don't connect, and I feel that people should try. 711 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 2: And it not just with Mate, but in the industry. 712 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 2: People are very giving because we've all got our own 713 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 2: journey to get to where we are, and it's nearly 714 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 2: always started by someone like me reaching out to someone 715 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,839 Speaker 2: more senior and having that first cup of tea. And 716 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 2: once you do that, you started, You started the game, 717 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 2: and you never know where to start workstop. So I 718 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 2: fully encourage people track me down. I'm on LinkedIn. You 719 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 2: can message me and we'll go for there. People do 720 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 2: and it works. 721 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 1: That's awesome famous last words. And I can so relate 722 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: to that. I was actually giving this evening presentation a 723 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 1: few days ago to about four hundred people online. And 724 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: you know, and I always invite people when I'm doing 725 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: virtual keynotes or real real can it's face to face keynotes, 726 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: to please reach out if you have any questions or 727 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: if there's anything I can do to help. And it's 728 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: like one or two people, but then they say, you're 729 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: probably inundated with emails, so hopefully you'll have time to 730 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: read this, and it's like, yeah, I've got time. So 731 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,319 Speaker 1: I think that's such good advice for people, Chris, just 732 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,919 Speaker 1: to reach out. And I hope that you are inundated 733 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,760 Speaker 1: with messages on LinkedIn as a result of this chat. 734 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: So thank you so much for your time. I've loved 735 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: getting this amazing view into an industry that I know 736 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: very little about. 737 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,359 Speaker 3: So thank you. Thanks you for having bying me. It's 738 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 3: been fantastic. And yeah, I hope listens enjoy a conversation. 739 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,239 Speaker 1: Yes, reach out, Hey there, I hope you liked my 740 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 1: chat with Chris. Now, if you are not a subscriber 741 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 1: or follower of How I Work, you might want to 742 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: hit that subscribe or follow button right now, because over 743 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: the next few weeks, I'm going to be releasing some 744 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: of my absolute favorite interviews and episodes that I have 745 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 1: done in the last year while I take a little 746 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 1: bit of a break over the summer holidays, So stay 747 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: tuned for those starting from next week. How I Work 748 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,280 Speaker 1: is produced by Inventium with production support from Dead Set Studios. 749 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: The producer for this episode was Jenna Koder, and thank 750 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 1: you to Martin Nimba who does the audio mix for 751 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,760 Speaker 1: every episode and makes everything sound better than it would 752 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: have otherwise. See you next time.