1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 1: Bunjelung Kalkotin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 2: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily os. It's Wednesday, 8 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 2: the twentieth of December. I'm Sam, I'm Asara. The trial 9 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 2: of a pro democracy activist and newspaper founder has started 10 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 2: in Hong Kong. World leaders have condemned the legal action 11 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 2: against Jimmy Lai, which comes amid ongoing concern of Chinese 12 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 2: government overreach in Hong Kong and accusations of human rights abuses. 13 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 2: We're going to explain all the context in the deep 14 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 2: dive and unpack what this trial is actually about. But first, Sarah, 15 00:00:57,800 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 2: what's making headlines. 16 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 3: The Chief Minister of Northern Territory, Natasha Files, resigned yesterday 17 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,839 Speaker 3: after she failed to disclose her shares in a mining 18 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 3: company called South thirty two. During a press conference yesterday, 19 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 3: Files said it was not intentional, and added I made 20 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 3: a mistake. There is no excuse. I'm owning up to it. 21 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 3: I accept the consequences. Files became Chief Minister in May 22 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 3: last year, following the resignation of Michael Gunner. She said 23 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 3: she will continue to serve her electorate and will run 24 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 3: for re election as an MP in August next year. 25 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 2: Australia Post has been ordered to pay nearly three million 26 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 2: dollars to businesses impacted by lost or damaged parcels. Oz 27 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 2: Post self reported to the a Triple C after it 28 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 2: found it had likely engaged in misleading or deceptive conduct 29 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 2: over its complaints handling for packages sent via its e 30 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 2: commerce courier service Star trek Os. Post has been ordered 31 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 2: by the atriple Ced to compensate around ten thousand, five 32 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 2: hundred affected business contract customers. The total compensation is estimated 33 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 2: to be about two point nine million bucks. 34 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 3: Two six earthquake in China's northwest has killed at least 35 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 3: one hundred and eleven people and injured more than two 36 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 3: hundred others. The six point two quake struck the Gansu 37 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 3: province around midnight on Tuesday. According to Chinese state media, 38 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 3: strong tremors were also felt in neighboring provinces. Search and 39 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 3: rescue teams are now working to recover the missing residents. 40 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 2: And today's good news, new research has revealed that apes 41 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 2: and chimpanzees can recognize faces even after decades of separation. 42 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 2: A group of scientists from global institutions including Harvard University 43 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 2: showed a group of apes and chimps photos of other 44 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 2: animals from their group, alongside photos of random apes or chimps. 45 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 2: The research looked specifically at social patterns and eye tracking, 46 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 2: which showed the animals could recognize photos of old group 47 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 2: mates from over twenty five years ago. So on Monday, 48 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 2: the long awaited trial of Jimmy Lai began. If you 49 00:02:57,639 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 2: haven't heard that name before, we're going to take you 50 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 2: through all all the main parts of this story. But 51 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 2: basically what you need to know is he's a high 52 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 2: profile critic of the Chinese government. He was arrested in 53 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 2: Hong Kong in twenty twenty and that's the first time 54 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 2: the dally Os covered him. So this trial has been 55 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 2: three years in the making and it could see Lie 56 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 2: jailed for the rest of his life. 57 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 3: I think to understand the trajectory of Jimmy Lyon. To 58 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 3: understand why the story is so important, you do just 59 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 3: need to lay the foundations of context as to what's 60 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 3: actually happening in Hong Kong's Can you start. 61 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 2: There, Well, it's a really unique region. So it's part 62 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 2: of China, but it has its own government, and what 63 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 2: that means in practice is that it's not directly ruled 64 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 2: by the Chinese government, which is led by Xijiping. This 65 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 2: has been the case since nineteen ninety seven, and that 66 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 2: was when Hong Kong was handed to China from the 67 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 2: British rule. Hong Kong before then was a British colony. 68 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 2: Now the handovercame under this fifty year agreement between Britain 69 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 2: and China, and the deal preserved Hong Kong's separation from 70 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 2: mainland and then from the mainland Chinese government, and what 71 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 2: that meant in practice was that it could function with 72 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 2: some political and economic independence. But over the last couple 73 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 2: of years there's been rising concerns over Chinese government interference 74 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 2: in Hong Kong, and that's led to accusations that China's 75 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,679 Speaker 2: walking back several of the protections outlined in that nineteen 76 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 2: ninety seven agreement. 77 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 3: And that's where all those protests came from. 78 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: Right now, exactly, There's been some massive protests in Hong 79 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 2: Kong over the years. There were major protests in twenty nineteen, 80 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 2: and those were directly in response to those concerns I 81 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 2: just mentioned that the Chinese government over each in Hong 82 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:41,119 Speaker 2: Kong was reaching some dangerous levels. Now, the demonstrations came 83 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 2: after a proposal that would allow Hong Kong residents to 84 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 2: be extradited to China for some criminal trials. An extradition, remember, 85 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 2: is when somebody sent to another state or territory or 86 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 2: country to face the system there, and it's normally an 87 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 2: agreement between the two countries or states. Now, that proposal 88 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 2: never became law, but it didn't stopped the protests. In 89 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 2: that case, some of them turned really violent and police 90 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 2: used tear gas and fired live bullets to control the 91 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 2: largely though not exclusively peaceful protesters. 92 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 3: What was the government's response at the time to those protests. 93 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 2: Well, in China, there was a new National Security law 94 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 2: that was passed shortly after those protests in twenty twenty, 95 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 2: and that law did cover Hong Kong. And these laws 96 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 2: were a broad set of reforms that gave Chinese officials 97 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 2: power to detain those involved in activities believed to be 98 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 2: undermining the Chinese government such as protests in Hong Kong. 99 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 2: Now advocacy group Amnesty International described the law as quote 100 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 2: dangerously vague, and said that Chinese authorities immediately began arrests 101 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 2: for quote legitimate and peaceful expression after it passed. In 102 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 2: the following months, we saw the arrests of several Hong 103 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 2: Kong citizens involved in those twenty nine protests, and so 104 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 2: far a couple of years later, charges under the National 105 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 2: Security laws have had had a one hundred percent conviction rate. 106 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 3: I just want to bring back to the topic of 107 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 3: today's pod. 108 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Jimmy. 109 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 3: We are meant to be talking about Jimmy Lfe. But 110 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 3: helpful to lay that groundwork. So how does he come 111 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 3: into this story? 112 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 2: So Li was born in mainland China in nineteen forty seven, 113 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:18,559 Speaker 2: but he arrived in Hong Kong when he was twelve 114 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 2: years old. He holds British citizenship. He was an outspoken 115 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 2: critic of the Chinese government, and his commentary included some 116 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 2: analysis of their interference in Hong Kong and alleged human 117 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 2: rights abuses and His views were often reflected in Apple Daily, 118 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 2: which was a Hong Kong newspaper he founded in the 119 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 2: nineties and closed in twenty twenty one. Now, Lai continued 120 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 2: his activism as a high profile face of these protests 121 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 2: that occurred across Hong Kong. He met with then US 122 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 2: Vice President Mike Pence in twenty nineteen to raise those 123 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 2: concerns as high as he could take them, and with 124 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 2: Mike Pence he discussed Chinese interference and the demonstrations in 125 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 2: Hong Kong. The reason we're talking about Jimmy Lai is 126 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 2: that he was the first high profile figure to be 127 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 2: charged under those national security laws when he was arrested 128 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty. Essentially, the law, as I said, is 129 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 2: really broad. So his involvement in his newspaper's criticism of China, 130 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 2: that trip to the US to meet Mike Pence, and 131 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 2: his attendance at protests, they could all be interpreted as 132 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 2: breaches of that national security legislation. It's not the only 133 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 2: thing he's been charged with. He's also been charged with 134 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 2: fraud and he's serving a sentence based on that, and 135 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 2: that all brings us to this week. So Lie this 136 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 2: week is on trial for those charges relating to the 137 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: National Security laws, and he faces a maximum penalty of 138 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 2: life in prison, and. 139 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 3: I imagine everyone will be watching closely. I think there 140 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 3: are so many overlapping themes. There's press freedom, there's individual liberties, 141 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 3: there's political interference. There's so much to this story. One 142 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 3: thing that you mentioned earlier is that lies also British citizen. 143 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 3: Have we heard from the UK on this yeah? Interestingly, 144 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 3: lies to your nationality will not be recognized in court 145 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 3: because the Chinese government considers any person of Chinese heritage 146 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 3: born in China to have only one citizenship. Now, the 147 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 3: UK government has been outspoken in their criticism of the 148 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 3: laws and the trial itself. British Foreign Secretary and former 149 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 3: UK Prime Minister David Cameron also met with Li's son 150 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 3: earlier this month to listen to the concerns the family 151 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 3: had about their father. Cameron called the trial politically motivated 152 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 3: and done to stop Live from exercising his freedom of speech, 153 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 3: which is what you mentioned before. Li also requested lawyers 154 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 3: from the UK to represent him in this case, but 155 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 3: Hong Kong laws prevented this from happening. And what about 156 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 3: other countries? I mean though, we are speaking about Hong 157 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 3: Kong and China here. This isn't just a domestic story. 158 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 3: It has implications for everyone. 159 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, what have we heard, Well, there's been consistent calls 160 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 2: across the world for Li to be released. To have 161 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 2: heard calls from the US countries, in the EU, you 162 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 2: and in Canada. Human rights advocacy groups have also called 163 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 2: for the charges against Lie to be dropped. I was 164 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 2: only on what human rights groups are saying. So Human 165 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 2: Rights Watch have called charges against Lie bogus and asked 166 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 2: for them to be dropped. And this the international, as 167 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 2: I mentioned before, have also called the case an attack 168 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 2: on press freedom and freedom of expression, and they argue 169 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 2: no one should be prosecuted solely for exercising human rights. 170 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,439 Speaker 3: Presumably China's then had to adopt this posture of defending 171 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 3: its actions. What has it said in response to what 172 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 3: can only kind of be categorized as global backlash. 173 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 2: Well, they've backed their suite of national security laws. They 174 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 2: say that it maintains the system of governance that works 175 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 2: well for China, and they defend the charges that they've 176 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 2: laid against Lie. Now, the Chinese embassy in the UK 177 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 2: responded to that visit that David Cameron had with Li's son, 178 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 2: and it claims that British support exposed Lie's collusion with 179 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 2: foreign power. And they say that in fact, that meeting 180 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 2: only brought further proof to these claims that have been 181 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 2: leveled against him. And so now the question is what 182 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 2: happens next. And as I said right at the top, 183 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 2: these charges that Life face carry an one hundred percent 184 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 2: conviction rate with that maximum penalty of life in prison. 185 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 2: Life's trial is now expected to take several weeks and 186 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 2: we should see a verdict towards the end of next year. 187 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 2: And when that does happen, we'll make sure to keep 188 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 2: everyone updated here on the pod. 189 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,959 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to today's episode of The Daily Os. 190 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 3: If you find yourself with ex spare a few minutes. 191 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 3: We would love it if you could leave us a look. 192 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 3: A five star rating would be great, but any rating 193 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 3: on Spotify. 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