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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just answers.

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Speaker 3: Now, there's something remarkable that happens if you can do

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Speaker 3: that for three or four days consistently, as much as

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Speaker 3: everyone goes on about go to bed at the same time.

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Speaker 3: And I do agree with it, it's important. The best

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Speaker 3: way to make that happen is to get them up

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Speaker 3: early the next day.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My mom

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Speaker 1: and Dad.

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Speaker 3: Every now and again, I come across a dad joke

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Speaker 3: that makes me hysterical.

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Speaker 1: The funniest dad.

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Speaker 3: Joke that I've heard recently, I got to share with you, Kylie.

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Speaker 3: I know you haven't heard this. Are you ready for this?

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Speaker 2: You know the best comedians don't love with their own jokes.

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Speaker 3: I can't believe that you've slammed me before I've even

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Speaker 3: told the joke. I'm not trying to be a comedian.

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Speaker 3: I just want to share this really funny dad.

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Speaker 1: Joke with you.

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Speaker 2: You know, Emily came up with a really good one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what was it.

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Speaker 3: You mean, the one about the dog. Yes, we're in

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Speaker 3: the car and she said, wow, does something smell really bad?

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Speaker 3: Like like dog in the car? And I said, I

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Speaker 3: can't smell it, and she said, oh, I got a

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Speaker 3: really big wolf of it. And then she cracked up

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Speaker 3: and she said, I just made a joke, dad one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I loved it.

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Speaker 2: All right?

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Speaker 1: Are you ready for your expectations?

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Speaker 3: A low?

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. You know what. It is, a dad joke.

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Speaker 1: It's terrible.

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Speaker 3: But I've been looking at the calendar lately and I'm

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Speaker 3: actually a little bit concerned about our calendar. Really why

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Speaker 3: it's days are numbered? That is a good one, isn't it.

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Speaker 3: Tell me that was a good joke. Oh boy? All right,

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Speaker 3: let's get on the podcast. My name, I don't know

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Speaker 3: if I should say my name after I've just done that.

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Speaker 1: My name is.

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Speaker 3: Who can I be? Kylie help me out here, I'll

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Speaker 3: just be me. My name's doctor Justin Colson. I'm the

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Speaker 3: founder of Happy Families dot com, dot you, and I'm

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Speaker 3: not giving up my day job for comedy. Kylie, my wife,

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Speaker 3: mum to our six kids. Today is a conversation not

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Speaker 3: about calendars and jokes, but.

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Speaker 1: It's a conversation about sleep.

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Speaker 3: How often do we find ourselves rousing on the kids

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Speaker 3: and saying, for goodness sakes, go to sleep. I mean

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Speaker 3: we're still living in separate houses while we make this

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Speaker 3: relocation thing happen. We're so close now, we are so close.

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Speaker 3: Next week the photos are taken and the house goes

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Speaker 3: on the market. I mean, we're so close. But I

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Speaker 3: was on the phone to you the other night, and

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Speaker 3: it must have been after nine o'clock. I was absolutely exhausted.

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Speaker 3: And next thing, you put the phone down and you

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Speaker 3: had to go and tell the kids. Three of the

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Speaker 3: four kids that are still living with us to go

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Speaker 3: to bed after nine o'clock. Their bedtime is eight to

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Speaker 3: eight thirty. What's going on with that?

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Speaker 2: Navigating teenage sleep time in our house can be challenging

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Speaker 2: at the best of times.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I thought today we might have

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Speaker 3: a conversation about it, because we're not doing Doctor's Desk

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Speaker 3: episodes so much anymore.

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Speaker 1: But this is kind of one of them.

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Speaker 3: In part, rather running through a multitude of studies, we're

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Speaker 3: is going to talk about one. University of Houston recently

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Speaker 3: published a study that shows sleep problems in children are

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Speaker 3: related to lower social competence and more problems in peer relationships.

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Speaker 2: I actually did find this one quite fascinating as I

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Speaker 2: read through it. Just this acknowledgment that the more tired

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Speaker 2: our children are, the less positive facial expressions they use.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let me step through a few of the bits

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Speaker 3: and pieces in this experiment, Kylie. So these researchers, it's

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Speaker 3: only a small sample. There's only thirty seven kids, but

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Speaker 3: the rag between seven and eleven. And they've done two

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Speaker 3: in lab emotional assessments, one of them when they were

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Speaker 3: well rested and another one after they had two nights

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Speaker 3: where their sleep was restricted. So during the in lab assessments,

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Speaker 3: what the kids are doing is they're viewing a whole

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Speaker 3: lot of images. Some are positive like kittens and ice cream,

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Speaker 3: and some are negative think I don't know, getting a

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Speaker 3: vaccination shot, or looking at an angry, ferocious dog. And

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Speaker 3: while they're looking at these, a high definition camera is

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Speaker 3: recording their facial expressions. And what the kids parents did

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Speaker 3: is they gave reports two years later of how their

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Speaker 3: children's social functioning was. In fact, there was a social

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Speaker 3: functioning now and social functioning two years later. And what

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Speaker 3: the research is basically found is that the kids who

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Speaker 3: displayed less positive facial expressions in response to the happy, pleasant,

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Speaker 3: positive images when they were sleep restricted had more social

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Speaker 3: problems two years later, even after they sort of statistically

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Speaker 3: accounted for the earlier social problems. So, in a nutshell, basically,

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Speaker 3: if you've got kids who are sleep deprived, they are

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Speaker 3: less likely to show positive facial expressions when they're hanging

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Speaker 3: out with their friends, playing, sharing a game, sharing a

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Speaker 3: lunch or whatever. And it seems that there may be

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Speaker 3: this longitudin less social between the negative facial expressions today

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Speaker 3: and how socially adept, how socially cohesive they are two

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Speaker 3: years later.

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Speaker 1: What a fascinating study.

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Speaker 2: Well, I guess we really need to talk about how

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Speaker 2: we can help our kids get some great sleep.

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Speaker 1: Let's set that after the break.

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Speaker 3: I want to talk specifically about how we can get

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Speaker 3: them to sleep, what we can do when there's resistance

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Speaker 3: to overcome, how much they need, and whatever other questions

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Speaker 3: you've got. So we'll dive into that right after this break.

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Speaker 3: It's their Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 4: Our Screens Creating Tension at Home Betweens, Teens and Screens

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Speaker 4: is a webinar to guide families to healthy, safe superscreen solutions.

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Speaker 4: Bye today at Happy families dot com dot au slash shop.

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Speaker 2: It's a Happy Families podcast. The podcast for the time

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Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants answers now, So doctor Coulson, tell.

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Speaker 1: Me, yes, what would you like to know?

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Speaker 2: Well, let's start with how much sleep is optimal for

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Speaker 2: our young kids.

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Speaker 3: The jury is kind of out on this because everybody

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Speaker 3: is different. It depends diet, it depends on physical health,

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Speaker 3: activity levels, and so many other things. It's really not

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Speaker 3: possible to give an exact amount. What I would say

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Speaker 3: is this, there's all kinds of ideas, all sorts of

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Speaker 3: charts on the internet. Lots of sleep experts will say

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Speaker 3: that let's say kids are under about the age of

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Speaker 3: five should be getting somewhere around I'm talking three to

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Speaker 3: five years of age. They should be getting somewhere around

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Speaker 3: twelve hours. Kids in primary school should be getting somewhere

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Speaker 3: around ten hours, kids in high school should be getting

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Speaker 3: somewhere around I'm going to say nine hours, and adults

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Speaker 3: should be getting something around about eight.

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Speaker 1: But these are averages. These are across the board.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we know people who can't survive on less

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Speaker 3: than nine as adults, and we know some people who

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Speaker 3: live pretty comfortably on about six to seven and seem

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Speaker 3: to function really well. What I'm interested in when we

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Speaker 3: consider the question of how much is How is your

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Speaker 3: child functioning? So if your child has plenty of energy,

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Speaker 3: if their facial expressions are bright and light and delightful,

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Speaker 3: if your child seems to be doing well, then whatever

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Speaker 3: sleep they're getting is probably enough. But as their activity

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Speaker 3: levels increase, or if their diet becomes really lousy because

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Speaker 3: there's a week of NonStop parties that they're invited to,

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Speaker 3: you're probably going to find that they'll need more sleep.

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Speaker 3: I think we've got to really allow our kids' body

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Speaker 3: clocks to work this out while still helping them to

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Speaker 3: maintain a happy, healthy life.

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Speaker 1: Does that answer the question?

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Speaker 3: Or have I just done a great job of being

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Speaker 3: a politician and not giving a clear answer at all.

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Speaker 2: I think that was a really political answer.

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Speaker 3: Oh gosh, Well, I think that it was a nuanced

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Speaker 3: and careful answer.

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Speaker 1: What's your next question? I don't know if I want

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Speaker 1: to do this interview.

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Speaker 2: An I'm wondering. I'm wondering if you've got some tips

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Speaker 2: on how we can optimize our children's sleep.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Sure, So there's all the basic stuff we call this

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Speaker 3: sleep hygiene. This is nothing that people haven't heard before.

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Speaker 3: Make sure the room's dark, make sure that it's the

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Speaker 3: right temperature, make sure that there's no noise. All those

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Speaker 3: kinds of things will definitely help. We also know good

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Speaker 3: research has shown for a number of years now that

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Speaker 3: we want to be consistent with bedtimes. Sleep patterns are

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Speaker 3: best when we're getting our kids to go to sleep

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Speaker 3: at a consistent time each night, usually within about thirty.

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Speaker 1: Minutes of their typical bedtime.

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Speaker 3: So if bedtime is eight o'clock, we want to make

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Speaker 3: sure that they're going to bed within thirty minutes or

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Speaker 3: fifteen minutes either side of eight o'clock on a consistent basis.

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Speaker 1: One late night.

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Speaker 3: Here and there isn't going to be a problem, but

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Speaker 3: we want to be nice and consistent. Ultimately, though, the

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Speaker 3: conversation about how much also relates to the quality of

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Speaker 3: the sleep. Sometimes you might get fourteen hours of sleep,

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Speaker 3: but it's really lousy quality. You're waking up, you're tossing,

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Speaker 3: your turning, you're cold, you're hot. Fourteen hours is not

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Speaker 3: going to be enough in that case, Whereas if you

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Speaker 3: get a really high quality seven hours one night, you

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Speaker 3: might wake up feeling ready to go because you've really

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Speaker 3: recharged through the night. So the quality matters more than

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Speaker 3: the quality. Although both ultimately are important.

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Speaker 2: What about when your kids don't want to go to

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Speaker 2: sleep like our three teenagers the other da.

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Speaker 3: I was going to say, we've dealt with this before,

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Speaker 3: So you've heard me have this conversation with our kids.

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Speaker 3: And this is the advice that I've given a lot

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Speaker 3: of parents, and that advice is really straight up.

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Speaker 1: Don't worry about what time they go to sleep.

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Speaker 3: Just make sure that they understand that tomorrow morning they're

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Speaker 3: getting up on time. As much as it's important to

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Speaker 3: have a steady go to bed time, sometimes it's not

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Speaker 3: possible to keep that consistent. But what you can do

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Speaker 3: is you can make wake up consistent. And so my

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Speaker 3: advice to parents is don't stress so much if they're

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Speaker 3: staying up, even if they're on screens, even if they're

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Speaker 3: not doing the things that you want them to be

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Speaker 3: doing at night time. Sometimes it's not worth the fight

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Speaker 3: because you're not at your best and they're not going

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Speaker 3: to be at their best. Sometimes it's easy to say,

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Speaker 3: you know what, don't like what you're doing, but it's

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Speaker 3: ultimately your choice. Just so that you know tomorrow morning

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Speaker 3: six point thirty, I expect that you're going to be

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Speaker 3: up and getting yourself organized to make things happen for

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Speaker 3: the day. There's something remarkable that happens if you can

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Speaker 3: do that for three or four days consistently, as much

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Speaker 3: as everyone goes on about go to bed at the

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Speaker 3: same time, and I do agree with it, it's important.

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Speaker 3: The best way to make that happen is to get

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Speaker 3: them up early the next day, or at least get

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Speaker 3: them up on time, regardless, no excuses. I don't care

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Speaker 3: what happened last night. I don't care if you're up

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Speaker 3: until two o'clock doing an assignment. You still have to

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Speaker 3: get up on time Tomorrow morning six point thirty. I'm

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Speaker 3: going to be in here, sitting on the bed and

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Speaker 3: waking you up, and I'm not going to leave the

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Speaker 3: room until you get out of bed. When you do that,

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Speaker 3: what happens is you don't have to deal with the fight,

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Speaker 3: the resistance in the evening and then in the morning

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Speaker 3: you just be the parent. You've got the right as

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Speaker 3: a parent to make certain requests and have certain expectations

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Speaker 3: of your children, and one of them is that they

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Speaker 3: will get up on time so that they don't destroy

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Speaker 3: your day and everyone else's, and they can still be

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Speaker 3: punctual for their regular commitments. So that's kind of where

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Speaker 3: I land on that. I have had some parents come

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Speaker 3: to me for some advice even where that hasn't worked,

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Speaker 3: and I've actually suggested once your kids are old enough,

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Speaker 3: stop poleasing it entirely, and when you stop policing it

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Speaker 3: entirely and just let them figure it out.

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Speaker 1: They actually do.

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Speaker 3: It might take them a week, it might take them

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Speaker 3: a month, it might even take them three months. But

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Speaker 3: depending on their age and depending on the obstacles that

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Speaker 3: you're facing, what you'll often find is that within a

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Speaker 3: couple of days couple of weeks, once the pressure is off,

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Speaker 3: the actually settle into a routine that works for them.

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Speaker 1: And usually as parents we can manage that as well.

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Speaker 2: So I guess the take homes from today's conversation is

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Speaker 2: it's just so important for us to establish good, solid

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Speaker 2: routines and structures around sleep, but take the pressure off it,

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Speaker 2: especially when we've got teenage kids, because the most important

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Speaker 2: thing is you wake up time. If you can stay

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Speaker 2: true to wake up time, then they'll usually regulate themselves

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Speaker 2: in time. And based on the findings from the study

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Speaker 2: that we've been citing from today, sleep effects every facet

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Speaker 2: of our lives, and so it's really important that we

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Speaker 2: do whatever we can to create good structures around it

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Speaker 2: so we can have good quality sleep.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's probably a pretty good summation. If

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Speaker 3: you have any feedback for US podcasts, podcasts with an

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Speaker 3: aes at Happy Families dot com dot a we love

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Speaker 3: getting your emails and hearing how you're responding to the

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Speaker 3: podcast and how it's helping your family. And we love

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Speaker 3: it when you leave five star ratings and reviews at

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Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, so that Apple pushes the podcast into other

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Speaker 3: people's feeds and they get to see it and find

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Speaker 3: out about it and make their families happier. We always

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Speaker 3: appreciate Justin Rowland, Craig Bruce. They make the podcast sound great.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, gentlemen, the Happy Families Podcast. We'll be back

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Speaker 3: tomorrow with our weekly old Do Better tomorrow and then

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Speaker 3: on Monday, we're going to talk about a big idea

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Speaker 3: called weaponized incompetence. Weaponized incompetence how pretending that you don't

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Speaker 3: know how to do stuff can be weaponized and divide

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Speaker 3: labor unfairly in the home.

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Speaker 1: It's a big idea and I can't wait to chat

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Speaker 1: about it. On Monday.

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Speaker 3: In the meantime, if you'd like more info about making

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Speaker 3: your family happier, you can find it at happy families

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Speaker 3: dot com dot au