WEBVTT - I WAS ACTUALLY THERE - KIRK DOCKER 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:01.760 It's in the news today, but it was actually on 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:04.240 TV Reload the podcast last weep their line. 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:06.960 Hey guys, welcome back to TV Reload. I want to 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:10.000 thank you for clicking and downloading on today's episode with 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:13.720 Kirk Docker, one of my favorite TV producers, who is 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:17.279 back on the podcast to discuss his new TV series 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:20.920 on ABC called I Was Actually There, which is a 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:24.599 brilliant follow up to his award winning series You Can't Ask. 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:28.760 That he has been acknowledged with multiple awards and that 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:32.000 you Can't ask that format is the most successful series 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:36.080 in ABC history, selling to thirty two territories and broadcasting 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:39.640 in nine different languages worldwide. One of my favorite things 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:42.600 about Kirk is when it comes to his content, no 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:46.360 subject is off topic. Through Kirk's work over the years, 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:49.599 he kind of has this methodology that every human, no 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:52.680 matter what they believe or how high their stature is, 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:55.240 that they all share a call value and that is 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:58.720 the desire to be understood. Today we unpack the bold 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:02.440 new six part document series which explores the defining moments 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:05.200 of our recent history through the eyes and ears and 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:08.680 voices of those who witness them first, from Port Arthur 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:11.000 to the Beatles, and even to the depths of the 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:14.680 beacon filled minds. Each topic is compelling and I think 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:18.240 you will walk away wanting to devour this whole series, 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:21.280 which is now available to watch on iView. We will 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:23.840 unpack what happened to you can't ask that if it 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:26.559 has run its course, could have come back, and where 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:29.840 that conversation with ABC is currently at. There is a 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:33.080 great opportunity to talk about how Kirk manages to get 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:36.399 the crucial human element out of his interviewees, how long 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:39.280 it takes to film and edit each episode, and what 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:42.720 he wants people to feel with his brand new series. 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:46.000 We will talk about the Companion podcast and what made 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:48.960 him want to release a longer edit of some of 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:53.200 the contributors retelling their story. Kirk shares some really fascinating 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:55.560 behind the scenes elements to the show and why he 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:58.960 is more fascinated with some of the nuances and mannerisms 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:02.640 over what is actually being said. There is, of course, 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:05.160 so much to unpack with Kirk, so sit back and 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:08.920 relax as we unpack the wonderful world of I was 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:12.120 actually there. This is very exciting, by the way, because 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:13.480 this show is amazing. 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:15.520 Oh good. It's nice to hear that. Look, you make 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:19.240 these things in silo, and you like it, and you're 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:21.840 doing your best work that you possibly can, and you 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:24.320 think that you're putting something out to the world. But 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:26.480 as we know, there's a lot of content that's being 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:28.239 made at the moment, and getting cut through is really 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:30.799 really difficult, and you know, these things could quite as 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:33.560 easily just disappear into the list of all these other 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:35.720 shows that are being made. So trick is trying to 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:37.800 create something that people want to actually talk about afterwards 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:42.280 and discuss and feel something, hopefully learn something and create 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:44.919 conversations and all that sort of stuff. So, yeah, hopefully 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:45.720 it's going to do that. 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:48.000 Was there a lot of pressure for you to follow 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:50.160 up the success if you can't ask that with something 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:51.480 equally compelling. 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:53.960 Look, I was definitely aware of the difficult follow up 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:56.560 album of creating something. Look, you can't ask That was 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.359 something that we got lucky with in a sense. It 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:03.399 was a small idea that that was probably uniquely timed 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:06.440 twenty fifteen when that first happened that it just it 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:09.320 scratched a niche at the time. This idea of political 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:11.120 correctness and what we can say and can't say was 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:14.160 something that was being grappled with openly in the public discourse, 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:15.680 and we felt like there was something that could be 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:18.280 added to that mix. And then, you know, even I 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:20.280 remember in season two thinking we're going to run out 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:22.799 of groups. You know how many misunderstood groups there were, 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:25.840 and then we expanded what that idea of being misunderstood was. 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:29.000 I don't think I felt the pressure from anyone out 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:33.320 in the world, but I did have pressure myself to go, Okay, 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:34.880 this thing has done well, and what am I going 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:36.680 to do next? How am I going to leverage this 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:39.840 great thing that we've done to do something new. I 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:41.880 wanted to take the learnings of you kin't ask that, 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:44.320 and I've done this before. Years ago. I did a 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:47.920 website online and we got some money to make a pilot, 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:50.800 and we sort of ignored all the good parts about 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:53.320 what that project was and tried we went, oh, we've 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:55.440 suddenly got a budget now and let's just go nuts. 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:58.080 We lost the soul of the project in a way. 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:00.400 So with this new one I did, I don't want 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:02.840 to forget the learnings that we had from yukon't ask that, 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.360 the things that work so well, It's cut from the 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:07.080 same cloth. As you can ask that, but it's a 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:09.800 new suit. We're taking these things that we'd loved, speaking 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:13.320 to people that normally don't appear on camera, understanding stories 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:16.160 that we that we feel like we are stereotyped in 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:19.359 our eyes, and this sort of beautiful way of interviewing 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:22.000 or intercut stories. But then the sort of applying it 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:25.720 to new craft and taking a moment an idea. People 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:27.640 who are far more linked as opposed to you can 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:29.760 ask that where they're very they're linked by a label, 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:32.680 but that's sort of it. People here at linked genuinely 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:35.320 come across each other's paths, are involved in each other's 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:38.360 stories for this particular period of time, and it was 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:42.040 different storytelling because we're telling one story where everyone's giving 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:46.160 their bits, their perspectives, their take, versus the smattering of 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:49.320 different stories. So yeah, to go back to your original question, 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:52.680 I was nervous about progressing on from ukn't ask that 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:55.720 and doing something that you didn't want to people to say, oh, 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:58.400 it's yeah, it's good, but you should have kept doing 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:00.280 You can't ask that. You do have that year in 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:02.720 the back of your mind. You can't just keep sitting 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:04.120 on that one idea. I did want to be known 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:06.000 as the you can't ask that guy for my whole career. 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:09.200 There's other stories to tell and another steps in your 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:11.440 own personal progression you want to make, and just very 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:15.039 simply in this we used archive, We shot stuff in 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:18.440 location and use that as part of the storytelling. We 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:20.560 didn't have this card system that we did. It was 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:23.400 all intricately woven. It was this time of day, so 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:25.840 there were these new elements that we bought in. Didn't 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:27.760 really think of you can't Ask that as a format 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:30.840 when we started it, but it became one that around 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:32.640 the world they made their own versions of it, and 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:35.400 that was really exciting to see a French version, or 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:39.520 a Dutch version, or a Norwegian version. And so with 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:41.599 this one, you thought, God, this actually could really work 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:43.599 in other parts of the world too. So how do 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:46.680 you create something that can be transplanted somewhere else and 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:48.680 they can plug in their events and it can work 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:50.760 as well. How do you create a format where you 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:52.600 can put in a tragedy and you can put in 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:56.200 a really happy, amazing moment and it still works. And 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:58.920 so that's a really fun part of the process too. 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.920 Applying all the learnings you can't ask that to create 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:04.440 a format where we can almost put in any moment, 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:08.320 any event, and you can analyze it from the perspective 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:11.640 of those that were just there. And that's the simplicity 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:14.560 of it, despite there being all these little complex moving parts. 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:17.240 Was there a reason that you decided to arrest you 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:19.120 can't ask that? I mean, were they wanting more of 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:21.240 that show? And you were like, Okay, I don't want 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:22.640 to be the you can't ask that guy. 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:26.240 So seven season, seven years of any one idea is 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:28.560 a long time, and I wanted to get out of 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:30.760 pores you can't ask, So let's just say it that way, 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:34.520 pores you kin't ask that while we still had ideas 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:37.880 that we weren't necessarily being pushed, that we weren't just 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:40.520 scraping the cupboard for any old idea so that we 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:42.640 could remain on air. You know, I feel like I've 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:44.520 got another season or two of you can't ask that 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:47.120 ideas that are sitting on the shelf. So I wanted 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:49.240 to sort of pause it while we felt like it 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:51.720 was still fresh or still doing things that you felt 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:53.839 like the audience was still keen to see it, that 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:56.680 it hadn't run its course. So I thought that was important. 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:59.080 I also felt the itch to do something new that 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:01.520 I didn't. You know, if we've done another year or two, 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:04.320 that's almost a decade of doing one idea. And I 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:06.920 was a little bit fearful of forgetting how to make 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:09.720 other content that that was my only I only knew 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:12.080 how to make that, so and I wanted to apply 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:14.840 my craft. You know, I'm very fascinated with the interview 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:19.600 about asking questions about understanding people and experiences, and I 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:22.560 speak about it. I go into these organizations and I 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:24.920 unpack this interview process. I write about it, I think 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:27.000 about it a lot. I'm very fascinated by it, and 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:29.240 I wanted to apply my craft in a different scenario. 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:30.840 I felt like i'd sort of in a lot of 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:33.640 ways mastered that you can't ask that style of interview, 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:35.800 so I wanted to do that too. So there's personal 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:39.240 growth in it as well as the desire to create 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:42.360 something new and to also I suppose get out. Yeah, 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:44.920 like I said, before the show got stale or people 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:46.600 got sick of it, or they didn't want it anymore, 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.000 that you want to sort of not head out on top, 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:51.800 because that's not how I really think about it. But 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:54.800 head out while it's well, it's still good and fresh. 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:59.000 You are the master, though, at storytelling. I think you 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:02.000 can tell story worry very well. Even when people listening 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:04.040 to this now, they'll be like, you know, you tell 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:05.880 a story with a beginning, in the middle and an end, 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:08.880 and you don't leave out the detail. But people don't 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:11.560 get a chance to probably see when you're behind the 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:13.840 camera or maybe not even in this interview, is that 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:17.680 you're an incredible listener, and you're an incredible listener to detail, 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:20.800 and that is such a skill. Look, it's a weird 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:22.880 thing for me to be on this side talking as 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:27.000 much as I am, because my natural place is behind 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.720 the camera and listening. It's interesting you pull up on 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:34.080 the details. The details is what makes things trusting and 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:37.959 real and not cliche. And getting people to when I'm 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:40.800 interviewing people, asking questions, getting them to reflect on what 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:43.040 they've learned or how they've grown, or how it changed 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:45.480 them or what impact it had on them, getting to 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:49.000 sort of think past that second or third or fourth 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:51.400 level of how they might tell that story to someone 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.800 in their normal life, to get new revelations, to find 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:57.920 curiosity in the weirdness of stuff that to me, is 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:00.040 just the joy of it all. We're such a what 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:03.080 a nation of turning our nose up to things, to 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:06.840 finding problems with people, to disagreeing to not liking something 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:09.200 because it's so different from how we live as opposed 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.080 to looking at with the lens of what are you doing? 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:14.200 Why does that bring you joy? And how do I 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:17.280 get that? And what's so interesting about that? And let 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:19.920 me stand in your shoes for a little period of time. 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:22.120 That's the That's the beautiful thing about being able to 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:24.319 interview someone is that for a period of time, maybe 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:26.240 two hours. I've got this person who's going to sit 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:28.040 there and be open about their life, and I get 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:30.080 to stand in their shoes and understand it. It's so 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:32.440 good as opposed to how we might exist at a 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:34.880 pub where we're fighting for our chance to tell our 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:38.480 two cents, our little bit, how good we're going, what's 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:41.280 great for us. Sometimes I actually really struggle with that 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:44.480 when someone says, oh, how's this thing going, and I'm like, oh, 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:46.960 how how do I do it? That keeps their interests 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:49.640 so they don't sort of glaze over and move. You know, 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:53.360 we've all felt that in public interactions where you're trying, 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:56.880 in some ways entertain someone with your response so they 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.880 don't get bored of you, Whereas I feel like if 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.000 you're just curious, what that does is unlock someone and 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:06.440 then they will start telling all these things. And you know, 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:07.880 I can be interested almost anything. 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.480 I think very few people get a chance to tell 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:14.680 their story without being interrupted. And if you can stay 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.840 quiet and you can be curious and you can be interested, 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:20.760 people will tell you anything. I think we all have 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:23.079 a yearning to want to hear have our story told, 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:24.959 and I think with this as well. I was a 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:28.440 little bit frightened because I flew in blind to watching 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:30.600 the episodes. I was like, oh wow, I know what 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:32.440 this is. I'm going to watch it. But I just 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:35.920 was scared about unpacking some of these things, like Port Arthur. 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:39.040 It's a very sensitive topic. A lot of people have 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:42.800 told their story in very different forms sixty minutes, et cetera, 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:46.079 but no one's ever unpacked it like we've seen and 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:49.080 what Australia will see in this first episode, you learn 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.320 way more than we've ever learned about what happened in 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:54.680 Port Arthur that day. Might I had to pick my 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:57.480 drawer off the floor because something like this that happened 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:00.400 so long ago. I've all of a sudden just given 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:02.360 a fist full of information about it, and I learned 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:04.760 so much in just a small period of time from 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:05.400 these people. 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:08.240 Oh thank you for saying so. Look, at the end 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:10.120 of the day, it's just a series of people talking 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:11.840 about what it's like to be in their shoes that 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:15.600 particular day. So we're not trying to You're not going 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:18.319 to come away from this episode knowing all the numbers, 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:21.280 the facts, the details that you can go and read 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:22.280 on Wikipedia later. 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:24.480 Yeah, but you don't want that either. No, people have 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:26.200 still frightened by port Arthur. 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:29.079 That's right. Get all those details elsewhere and you can 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:32.280 find out the sort of the wrap up of any 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:34.800 one of these moments in documentaries or in sixty minutes, 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:36.240 all that sort of stuff. But what you're going to 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.080 get from this show is like sitting down next to 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:41.679 someone at a dinner party or something and then finding 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:43.720 out that they had this experience and then saying them, go, 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:45.920 what did you see and what was that like? That's 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:48.880 sort of the premise behind that's the beginning point of 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:51.760 all these interviews. It's like imagining you're getting access to 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:54.400 someone who's gone through an extraordinary moment, and you get 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:56.880 to I got to just ask them what did you see, 0:11:57.120 --> 0:11:59.400 what was it like, how did it impact you? And 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:02.160 what are you rem because part of this, too is 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.880 about memory and what sticks in your mind and what doesn't, 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:08.840 and none of that is right or wrong. It's fascinating. 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:11.079 You know, one of the participants in the portart episode, 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:13.080 she was the GP And some of this isn't really 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:15.440 included ultimately in the episode because we can only include 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:17.280 so much of each person, but one of the things 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:19.400 she often would say in the interview is I can't remember. 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:21.920 I can't remember blah blah blah. And to me, that 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:25.440 was fascinating. What details stick in your mind and when 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:27.440 they stick in their mind. For some of these people, 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:33.440 it's in minute, detailed, incredible detail, sounds and smells and 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:37.000 intricate stuff, and then there's other huge blanks that they 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:39.720 just can't remember it all, and that's how the mind works. 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:43.640 Then there's other stuff where people get details wrong. You know, 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.520 in one of the episodes, a gentleman, no, it doesn't 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:48.560 argue with me, but he's you know, he's telling me 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:50.559 this detail and they're through research. I knew that detail 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:52.120 is telling me was wrong. And I said to him, look, 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:54.319 I actually think it's this, And even in the interview 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:57.640 he wouldn't admit it. He would say it's this all 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:00.920 that for me. I found that very interesting, how details, 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:03.120 how they get forged in your memory. The other thing 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:05.920 I found interesting, here's multiple people hurt the same thing, 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:08.760 where they might be standing somewhat near each other, yet 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:11.360 their experience is vastly different how it impacts them. And 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.440 look the boxing n tsunami, for example, there's people just 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:18.000 talk about very broadly who've gone back to Thailand, who 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:21.320 have gone to the memorial see Thailand as almost like 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:24.080 a sacred place where someone's been lost, and they see 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:26.920 it as a very special place. Others haven't been swimming. Again, 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:29.360 here's two people who have seen the same thing from 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:32.360 the same angle, yet how it's impacted them is vastly different. 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:34.640 So what we're trying to say with this show is 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:37.280 that there's no right or wrong answer. That you and 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:39.760 I can stand next to each other and we can 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:42.840 experience it completely differently and we can both be correct 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:46.160 in a lot of ways. In twenty twenty four, we've 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:48.800 lost this idea that we can have different perspectives that 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:52.000 we can have different takes on something. It's like you're 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:54.600 right and you're wrong, but actually we can both be 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:57.319 right and we can compare notes, and there's all these 0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.920 different reasons why something might affect you in different ways. 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:02.800 But there's this idea that Okay, well you're at Port Arthur, 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:06.680 everyone's traumatized. Well, actually that's not the truth. There's definitely 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:09.840 some people who are still very much traumatized by that 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.120 day and can't talk about it and don't want to 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:15.920 talk about it. There's others who definitely still feel trauma 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:18.040 and are triggered by it, but feel like they can 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.240 handle it when it comes up, and they wanted to 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:22.840 share their story even if it felt very sensitive. There 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:24.480 was others that felt like they could talk about it 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:26.840 very very openly. They've definitely come to terms that they've 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:29.200 moved on. There was a day in their life that happened, 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.960 but it isn't the defining day of their life. And 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:34.440 then there's sort of other things in between that depending 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:37.080 on what your role was, what you saw, depending on 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:39.800 your personality type and your character traits and the support 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.160 that you had, and all these other things that add 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.280 into it. There's not just this one blanket you're traumatized, 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:48.200 you're not traumatized. But that's sort of how we often 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:50.280 look at these sorts of things, don't. 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:52.960 You think as well, Like we've all had trauma or grief. 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:56.680 We've all had these emotions, and we feel like we 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:59.000 can't share it, like there's something about it where we 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:02.080 bury it deep inside. But for most people, I feel 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:06.920 like it's sharing your story. It actually helps just sharing 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.600 your story. I remember, even on Saturday night, I unpacked 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:11.800 something that is terrible that had happened to me. It 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:14.520 was sixteen years ago when I lost my father, and 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:17.320 I felt embarrassed at the time while I was sharing 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.000 that story because someone was asking about it. But then 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:21.720 I woke up the next day and I felt like 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:24.960 this huge weight had been taken off me, and I 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.640 thought to myself, how long have I been walking around 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:28.520 with that? 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:31.800 What you're saying is a massive truth that I think 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:35.520 a lot of us don't realize that through interviewing literally 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:41.120 thousands of people, what is respected is when people are honest, truthful, 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.840 they're authentic. They just say it how it is. They're 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:47.600 not trying to manipulate the story to sound better. They're 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:49.760 not trying to rehearse the story to the nth degree, 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:53.080 so it comes out perfectly. That just comes across as false, 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:56.840 It comes across as practiced, it comes across as manipulative. 0:15:57.280 --> 0:15:59.600 We all think that we want to be these perfect 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:02.040 publics speakers, where we have these eloquent stories and we're 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:04.920 funny in this and that. But what really resonates is 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:08.520 when people are just honest. They're truthful. The people that 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:11.120 have appeared, you know, on YU can't as sad and 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:14.560 appear on this show. They own their story. They've come 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:16.800 to terms with it, even if they might struggle with 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:19.120 certain bits, they may not love all the certain bits 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:22.680 in some respects, they've accepted who they are and they're like, 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:25.120 this is me, take it all, leave it. That's why, 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:26.640 you know a lot of people would say to me, Oh, 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:28.200 but what's going to happen to these people when they 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:30.400 share all this honesty you know on TV. I'm just gonna 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:32.280 say they're going to get respected. That's what's going to happen. 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:33.920 People are going to look at them and go, my god, 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:35.480 I wish I had the courage of them, or I 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:38.360 really identify with that, or oh my god, I thought 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:40.280 you were so different, But in n aatural fact, now 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:43.520 I know the truth. I understand this. We're all yearning 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:46.920 to connect with truth, and we're not that different from 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:52.520 each other really. All these things, these labels, these traits 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:55.600 are just that's all they are, is labels. But underneath it, 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:57.240 we're so similar in so many ways. We want to 0:16:57.280 --> 0:16:59.960 be loved, we want to feel connection. These people sharing 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:03.000 these things, it's only a positive. Some people aren't in 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:05.639 a situation to do it, they haven't necessarily feel like 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:09.399 they're too delicate or tender to necessarily share those things. 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:11.080 But if you've come to a place where you feel 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.720 like you can share it, feel like you can take 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:15.919 the risks, you've got the support around you, or whatever 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:18.680 it is to share it, it becomes, like you said, 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:20.840 a shared load. It doesn't become the elephant in the 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:24.440 room anymore. It becomes something that is just part of 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:27.159 who you are. It's not something that's hidden, it's just 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:27.679 the truth. 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:30.240 One of the strange things that I've noticed about television, 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:32.760 and you know, people keep saying, oh, the death of television, 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:35.120 you know, death of free to wear too much reality. 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:37.520 And one of the things that I've noticed about people 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:39.640 when I have a conversation with them about why they're 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.920 not watching some of the big free toware networks anymore 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.840 is because they can't put their finger on it. They 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:48.840 really can't. But so much of television these days is 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:53.280 manipulated content to make it perfect. TV presenters that speak 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:57.119 perfectly in unison. It used to be very impressive. But 0:17:57.240 --> 0:17:59.480 I actually think that that's kind of where the death 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:02.320 of television could come from, because an actual fact, people 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:06.200 have always watched television to see themselves. And the more 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.320 and more we see these word perfect TV presenters and 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:13.200 stories being put together. If it's unauthentic, if it's not real, 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:16.360 it doesn't matter how perfect it is, people have stopped watching. 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:21.720 You know, I suppose entertainment versus maybe something that has 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:24.760 a deeper impact in this place for entertainment. Don't get 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:27.960 me wrong of frivolous entertainment, but I suppose that's why 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:30.840