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Speaker 1: Hey, it's Lola here. This isn't your usual podcast, so

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Speaker 1: you may know that on Monday, we made the call

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Speaker 1: to pull and postpone our scheduled episode with the wonderful

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Speaker 1: Jenfontein out of respect to what's going on in America

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Speaker 1: and in support of George Floyd. And I just checked

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Speaker 1: in with Jen because she lives in LA and we spoke,

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Speaker 1: and as we were speaking, there were helicopters going over

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Speaker 1: the top of her house. Curfew had locked in and

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Speaker 1: looting was very, very real for her, and she offered

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Speaker 1: to jump on here and just have a chat about

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Speaker 1: the current climate in America, what she has personally experienced,

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Speaker 1: and share a little bit of insight from her perspective.

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Speaker 1: I need to preface this podcast with I am not

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Speaker 1: educated enough to be speaking about these issues in depth,

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Speaker 1: but I do believe that I have a responsibility to

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Speaker 1: have uncomfortable conversations on this platform in a bid to

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Speaker 1: shine a light on things that need to have a

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Speaker 1: light shone on them, and it's the very least that

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Speaker 1: I can do. I'd like to thank Jen Fontaine for

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Speaker 1: being brave enough to open up and share, and I

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Speaker 1: really urge everybody who listens to this to do what

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Speaker 1: I'm about to do, and just keep educating yourself on

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Speaker 1: this because black lives matter and this is such a

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Speaker 1: laid issue that has been going on for way, way,

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Speaker 1: way too long. I hope that you gain something from

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Speaker 1: this chat. I understand that we are both white Australians

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Speaker 1: having this chat and have had a very privileged life.

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Speaker 1: But like I said, the least that I can do

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Speaker 1: is shine a light onto this very serious issue and

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Speaker 1: something has got to change.

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Speaker 2: Thanks.

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Speaker 1: So I want to say a big thank you for

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Speaker 1: Jen Fontaine for coming on the show. This is technically

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Speaker 1: a second episode, even though we have already got you

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Speaker 1: coming out on the podcast. But in light of everything

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Speaker 1: that's going on in America right now, it just seems

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Speaker 1: right to share a voice from somebody who's there experiencing it.

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Speaker 1: First of all, thank you, and second of all, can

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Speaker 1: you let us know what's going on? Are you okay?

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Speaker 1: Like I know, we've spoken a few times and it

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Speaker 1: sounds really pretty confronting and traumatic.

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Speaker 2: To be honest, it is. Thanks Lola. I mean I

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Speaker 2: was kind of grappling to how you even describe this,

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Speaker 2: because at the end of the day, it's really challenging times,

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Speaker 2: and particularly really at the end, we have to shed

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Speaker 2: a light and listen and learn to listen. And I

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Speaker 2: understand that for now it really is about black lives matter.

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Speaker 2: It's not complicated to anything else and say that it's

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Speaker 2: you know, racism across different creeds. This particular issue is

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Speaker 2: about black lives and they matter. And I've been trying

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Speaker 2: to understand how do I vocalize it, because you know, Lola,

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Speaker 2: I'm an Australian like you, but I'm living here in America.

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Speaker 2: I'm not even in a position to vote because I'm

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Speaker 2: not a Green card. I'm an O one, and so

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Speaker 2: for me, I have to try and process this part

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Speaker 2: of the conversation and understand that I'd like to call

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Speaker 2: this a protest. And yes, the word right is used,

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Speaker 2: and it's and it's been used by Martin Luther King

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Speaker 2: and many other you know, people that are trying to

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Speaker 2: shed light on what's been an issue of centuries, not

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Speaker 2: today in twenty twenty, but an issue you know that's

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Speaker 2: stemmed from four hundred and one years ago, from the

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Speaker 2: arrival of the first slaves, to one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: five years ago with the emancipation of slavery, but you know,

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Speaker 2: how how far has this country progressed? And I've been

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Speaker 2: really turning to obviously other African American leaders that have

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Speaker 2: a voice, and we were and I and as you know, Lola,

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Speaker 2: I'm from the music industry, so I have to look

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Speaker 2: and think, well, what does the music industry do to

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Speaker 2: shed light? And obviously, and I'm sure we'll touch on this.

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Speaker 2: For me, I think we have to look at this

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Speaker 2: and understand that music has always spoken about minority It's

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Speaker 2: spoken about difficult times in life, war and now this

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty because of the wrongful deaths and the

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Speaker 2: brutal deaths nine minutes deaths for George Floyd and other

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Speaker 2: examples of that. And I sat watching television and I

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Speaker 2: finally watched that footage and clearly I did cry, and

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Speaker 2: I was fearful for the state of the community. So

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Speaker 2: there's a lot to be said. But I think we

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Speaker 2: need to be very mindful is that we are white

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Speaker 2: and we are of a privilege where we don't have

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Speaker 2: to fear when we wake up in a morning time.

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Speaker 2: Will there be violence? Will there be bigotry? Will there

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Speaker 2: be hatred? What does my future look like? Will I

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Speaker 2: actually live? And achieve my dreams or will I truly

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Speaker 2: only live for how long? Oh?

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Speaker 1: It's so And this is the thing. I'm so glad

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Speaker 1: that you're speaking to what's happening. And you mentioned George Floyd,

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Speaker 1: but that's one of so many things that we don't

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Speaker 1: know about that go on. Like I really, when I

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Speaker 1: was quickly preparing to chat to you, I started to

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Speaker 1: research and just since something like February, we're talking George Floyd,

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Speaker 1: Breonna Taylor armat Arbury and this is unarmed people being

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Speaker 1: murdered like this is really scary and it's so heartbreaking

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Speaker 1: to think that this is something that goes on in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: Well, yes, and do you know back just only take

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Speaker 2: it back for and a bit years ago, you know,

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Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen when when you know, Colin Kaepernack, the

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Speaker 2: forty nine Ers football quarterback, took to one knee when

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Speaker 2: the US anthem was played pre match. It was considered

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Speaker 2: hugely disrespectful. But now that same you know, I guess

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Speaker 2: you know, even other good police officers is such a

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Speaker 2: complicated and layered component to all of this. Shall we

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Speaker 2: say the people that really took the police officers that

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Speaker 2: took the oath to serve and protect the community are

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Speaker 2: now joining many of those protesters is on one knee,

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Speaker 2: and so I feel that like how that was there

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Speaker 2: was such a huge coverage in the press loll around

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Speaker 2: that time. We were just moving to America when Colin

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Speaker 2: was making that stand, and now it seems that you know,

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Speaker 2: that was not reactionary. He was pleading, pleading for his

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Speaker 2: fellow black community to be heard. He wants to be heard,

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Speaker 2: and that's the one component for me. Now again, I

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Speaker 2: just have to stress I am not an expert. I

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Speaker 2: am just a member of the community trying to talk

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Speaker 2: to my son, trying to understand. I'm a pretty jovial

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Speaker 2: person that when I went to the supermarket two days

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Speaker 2: ago and smiled with my mask on, praytelle as well.

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Speaker 2: It's not such a complex time over here where we're not.

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Speaker 2: We're in still in stay home. I guess, you know,

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Speaker 2: some form of lockdown. And I tried to smile, and

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Speaker 2: I just am heartbroken. But our jobs not to be heartbroken,

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Speaker 2: our jobs not to shy away from this incredible musicians,

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Speaker 2: Ryan Tedor. There's been so many people on social media.

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Speaker 2: Look at the sports Starles Lebron James, who gave an

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Speaker 2: example of the peaceful protest in Colorado, and the fact

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Speaker 2: that we need to look at this sadly, we have

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Speaker 2: to look at a lot of people in the public eye,

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Speaker 2: but also wonderful members of other services, because it's a

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Speaker 2: very confusing time and polarizing time with the president and

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Speaker 2: we're heading into elections. So this is so so multi leveled.

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Speaker 2: But I think the more we can listen and I asked,

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Speaker 2: you know, black friends and other members of the community,

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Speaker 2: how can we help. And it is so so key

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Speaker 2: to make sure that we express that black lives matter.

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Speaker 2: And if we have to petition for justice with George

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Speaker 2: Floyd to change dot org have got about eight point

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Speaker 2: five million messages of support and donations. This is the

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Speaker 2: sort of thing we have to do. And I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, you might be aware the music community around

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Speaker 2: the world tomorrow here in America today, for you in Australia,

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Speaker 2: you know, has gone dark to help respond to this

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Speaker 2: plea and to help try and bring a stronger voice

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Speaker 2: to the community.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that you've spoken about the music community

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Speaker 1: because I think in these kind of really yes, definitely

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Speaker 1: polarizing times, but confronting times, it's the arts that speak

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Speaker 1: to humanity. And I think that this, yes, this is

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Speaker 1: super layered, but this is the reason why I think

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Speaker 1: we're having this discussions. It is a call to humanity.

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Speaker 1: And I and I watched got up at five am

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Speaker 1: this morning to watch an Insta live with Americans on

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Speaker 1: the ground at the moment, and they said to the

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Speaker 1: to the audience, how often do you think a black

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Speaker 1: person faces racism? And I thought, oh, once a day,

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Speaker 1: like at most. I was like, this is literally what

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Speaker 1: I thought this morning. So I'm very ignorant. And I

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Speaker 1: were the first to say that, and I thought, oh,

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Speaker 1: once a day. And the stats are in a black

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Speaker 1: person faces racism eight times a day minimum, like and

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Speaker 1: that's the norm. Yeah, you know, we don't even read like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we don't even think about it. It's not something and

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Speaker 1: it's not that we've never needed to think about it.

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Speaker 1: I mean like, and that's why I want to be

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Speaker 1: really clear, like, you know, we're both white, we're Australian,

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Speaker 1: we're super super privileged. But if we can do anything,

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Speaker 1: can we please just shine a light on how and

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Speaker 1: give it, just give a voice. And when I was

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Speaker 1: researching research and so I was like, how on earth

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Speaker 1: can we help? And I found there's this really awesome

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Speaker 1: insta page and it's called good Good, Good co and

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Speaker 1: it literally says like, how can I help? How can

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Speaker 1: I practice? And it really comes down to educating yourself,

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Speaker 1: having your own voice, and I also think having a

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Speaker 1: really honest conversation with yourself because we've been raised in

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Speaker 1: a way in which, you know, we have been treated

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Speaker 1: so well and just because of the color of our skin,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's it's it was a really eye

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Speaker 1: opening thing that I watched this morning because I was like, shit, like,

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Speaker 1: am I racist? Just because I've grown up privileged?

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Speaker 2: Like we're just I think that the differences is that

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Speaker 2: we haven't lent a voice when that community has been unheard,

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Speaker 2: and maybe that is unheard around the eight times a

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Speaker 2: day that's statistic, that's just terrific. But I'm confronted to

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Speaker 2: even hear that. I'm confronted that really, are we surprised

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Speaker 2: about the brutality and what George had to suffer and

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Speaker 2: are necessary and to cry for his mother? This is happening,

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Speaker 2: and it's happened for many, many years, decades and centuries,

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Speaker 2: But do you know the difference Lola, it was filmed. Yes,

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Speaker 2: So today it's about the fact that you know, thankfully

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Speaker 2: the phone is there to back up the story, to

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Speaker 2: not question in doubt those that are guilty. Justice needs

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Speaker 2: to be served for George and for those if you

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Speaker 2: commit this prime the country must and the system must

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Speaker 2: be there to hold people accountable. And also and that

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean if they're policemen or anyone. It means man

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Speaker 2: for man, woman for woman, whatever that is. But look,

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Speaker 2: it's such a deep, deep issue because I think, honestly,

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Speaker 2: America's biggest problem is that the largest problems don't get solved.

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Speaker 2: And you could take that to racism, you can take

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Speaker 2: that to not allowing equality amongst the black community. Don't

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Speaker 2: get me started on guns. But you know, at the

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Speaker 2: end of the day, we have to stay true to

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Speaker 2: what this really is about, and it is about holding

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Speaker 2: members of the community, even in power, accountable for their wrongs,

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Speaker 2: because that is truthfully what it is. And you know,

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Speaker 2: the other part of it is that there are so

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Speaker 2: many members of this great country. It's a great country,

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Speaker 2: but it is broken and the system of democracy is

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Speaker 2: not working as such a good system because there's not

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Speaker 2: enough voters of diverse communities, and I think that's what

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Speaker 2: it is, is we have to educate the black people

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Speaker 2: to go the polls and everyone, the minority groups, everyone.

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Speaker 2: But you know, the problem is is when you're talking

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Speaker 2: centuries of oppression, very hard to think that your voice

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Speaker 2: will make a difference.

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Speaker 1: It's so complex and like you mentioned earlier, layered, and

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Speaker 1: when I think of America, like I love America, I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, one of the more shows and slogans is

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Speaker 1: Land of the Free, you know, And it's just that

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Speaker 1: one thing that I want to really make sure is

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Speaker 1: that we're using this platform to have uncomfortable conversations, to

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Speaker 1: bring her voice and shine a light on something that

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Speaker 1: needs it needs to be spoken about, even if it's uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: And I think one thing I just wanted to ask about.

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Speaker 1: I know you said you'd rather call it rather than

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Speaker 1: looting rioting, but I feel like there's quite a difference

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Speaker 1: between from what I've seen protesting and looting because like

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Speaker 1: I don't there's a lot of watching videos, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of white people looting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, and I think, you know, I was

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Speaker 2: reading the news and I wrote down that, know, obviously

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Speaker 2: we should condemn the looters, but and they're taking advantage,

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Speaker 2: you know, of the minority, and they shouldn't tarnish the

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Speaker 2: anger and the pain that this minority is feeling. So look,

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Speaker 2: you know, I can't condone that, and I think it's

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Speaker 2: difficult to see. And yes news is watching those components,

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Speaker 2: but it really is an expression of anger and and

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Speaker 2: we have to understand that perhaps it's this drama of

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Speaker 2: the extra element of looting and and I don't condone violence,

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Speaker 2: violence of any nature, but it's got to that place

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Speaker 2: where they really need to make a stand and so

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Speaker 2: it can be peacefully done. It can be done. I've

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Speaker 2: I've witnessed some incredible moments, you know, with with the law,

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Speaker 2: with the even the National Guard. That's you know, there's

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Speaker 2: National Guard in my suburb this evening, just this Antamnica

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Speaker 2: and Palisades. But at the end the day, we're safe.

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Speaker 2: You know, we don't live in a difficult place. And

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Speaker 2: again I stress, I'm not black, but I really really

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Speaker 2: believe that we can't allow this community to be silenced anymore,

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Speaker 2: and that true freedom has to come and justice has

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Speaker 2: to be delivered to everyone. But we have to allow

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Speaker 2: everyone to feel loved and to feel that they have

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Speaker 2: a meaning and a future. And I just you know,

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Speaker 2: I was at my son's school. They've been sending out

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Speaker 2: a lot of emails for counseling and you know, for

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Speaker 2: to counsel the mental health of all the kids. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's really important because it's going to be

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Speaker 2: the next generation that hopefully allows a finer, you know, voice,

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Speaker 2: And I do hope more than anything that the kids

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Speaker 2: are the ones that will start to commence voting because

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Speaker 2: making the practices of some of the middle aged communities,

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Speaker 2: it's not going to change, and so we have to

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Speaker 2: get the younger generation ready to understand the value of

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Speaker 2: their votes.

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Speaker 1: Big time, big, big, big time. Can you just for

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Speaker 1: when I spoke to you yesterday, I think you'd said,

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Speaker 1: like at the sorry, the day the first curfew kind

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Speaker 1: of cracked in, I'd seen some footage of the grove

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Speaker 1: had been completely looted. You're really close to Santa Monica,

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Speaker 1: that famous Santa Monica mall stream. Yeah, And then like

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Speaker 1: just overnight seeing on my friends instagrams like New York,

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Speaker 1: and I think it is and I know that it's

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Speaker 1: not just about the looting, but it does like we're

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Speaker 1: seeing footage of cars on fire, tear gas, police shooting

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Speaker 1: with rubber bullets, and there's some really horrific footage of

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Speaker 1: police cars like driving into people and pretty horrible, is it.

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Speaker 1: I guess I just one my heart goes out to

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Speaker 1: you because you're there and I know you're safe now,

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Speaker 1: but when that initially started to happen, it feels very

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Speaker 1: very very real watching it from a distance.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's just you do to remember too

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Speaker 2: that the black communities have also, between the Blacks and Latinos,

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Speaker 2: they've been the highest impact around COVID, And so statistically

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Speaker 2: is it because you know, they haven't I haven't got

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Speaker 2: the right healthcare, or have they not been able to

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Speaker 2: social distance as much as we all have, you know,

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Speaker 2: so those communities and particularly the black have already been

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Speaker 2: in such a really difficult time for the last three

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Speaker 2: and a half four months, you know, And we touched

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Speaker 2: on when we were just you know, connecting our mics

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Speaker 2: that we're still not really out of I guess some

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Speaker 2: form of lockdown. There's nothing been. You know, we're allowed

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Speaker 2: to use the beaches and we start were allowed to

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Speaker 2: hike now, but it's still really tenuous times. So I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, it just has come at this really challenging time,

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Speaker 2: and I was I was a little flat because I felt, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, for a moment there and seeing the George

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Speaker 2: Floyd footage, is that had we learned nothing whilst we're

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Speaker 2: in lockdown? Like, wasn't this like when you think about

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Speaker 2: all these wonderful things that we've all got on our

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Speaker 2: phones and our Instagrams and you've got this incredible community

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Speaker 2: and you use your voice for good, But like, have

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Speaker 2: we learned nothing about this incredibly difficult time for the

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Speaker 2: world and for any nationality. But do you know what,

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Speaker 2: Maybe it's because we're at our rawst that we've got

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Speaker 2: to be exposed to the next level of raw and

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Speaker 2: that is helping an oppressed minority become able to have

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Speaker 2: a future. You know, when you see on Instagram a

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Speaker 2: police officer asking a little black boy, you know what

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Speaker 2: you aspire to be? You know, what do you want

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Speaker 2: to do when you're older? And the little boy says,

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Speaker 2: be alive. I just I can't. It's unfathomable. All I

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Speaker 2: can say is I'm a mum. All I can say

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Speaker 2: is I'm trying to do my best to integrate in

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Speaker 2: society and respect everyone and my heart breaks for the

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Speaker 2: black community, and I don't feel like I'll ever ever

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Speaker 2: be able to truly understand. But I just go back to,

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Speaker 2: we have to listen, we have to understand, we have

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Speaker 2: to make a cause and a process for change, because

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Speaker 2: if we don't change this, I don't understand why we're

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Speaker 2: even talking to this degree in twenty twenty, but we

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Speaker 2: are because there's been an incredible suffering.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's it's like you said, it is so layered,

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Speaker 1: Like I really dove deep before this podcast, and in

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Speaker 1: America with mass incarceration. I literally there's an amazing documentary

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Speaker 1: called The Thirteenth that's on Netflix, and there's more Black

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Speaker 1: Americans in jail than there were slaves in the fifties,

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Speaker 1: and so it's it's also a monetized system, and so

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Speaker 1: you just think, man, like, there are so many layers

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Speaker 1: to this.

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Speaker 2: And potentially wrongfully accused, of course, you know, in many ways. Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: So it's it's really it's really something that we have

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Speaker 2: to better understand. And I feel all I can all

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Speaker 2: I just go back to is we have to listen.

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Speaker 2: We have to make change, and maybe in our very

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Speaker 2: small way, that change comes with a day of respectful silence,

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Speaker 2: you know here in the community, because at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day, for a very long time, some of

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Speaker 2: the most talented artists have been black and have given

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Speaker 2: a their soul and their greatest you know component, and

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Speaker 2: of the greatest music ever written and ever performed, and

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Speaker 2: some of the greatest voices.

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Speaker 1: You are one hundred percent on. And this is where

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Speaker 1: it almost comes back down to. I think like the

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Speaker 1: hope that the arts can bring, and it was it's

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Speaker 1: so nice to see the music world being on the

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Speaker 1: forefront of stepping forward and saying the show must be paused.

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Speaker 2: Black lives matter.

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Speaker 1: And for me, someone studies acting, I can see how

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Speaker 1: much actors are feeling it and also doing good. And

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Speaker 1: I just think arts speak to humanity and that's that's

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Speaker 1: where I think the hope is. But I think after

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Speaker 1: I thought, how do I how do we like even

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Speaker 1: this conversation is confronting it as it is, how can

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Speaker 1: we leave people going there is hope? And I just

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Speaker 1: think there is work to be done. We can be

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Speaker 1: calmly powerful and yes, there needs to be a light

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Speaker 1: shone on this and just hopefully our conversation has done that,

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Speaker 1: even in a minute way, I.

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Speaker 2: Feel like it's a minute way, and I'm not suggesting

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Speaker 2: that it's not. I think it's amazing that you're willing

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Speaker 2: to to to chat about this. And again, I wish,

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Speaker 2: I sort of really nearly wished that we could have

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Speaker 2: even more people commenting and other friends and other you

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Speaker 2: know friends here that are that are black that have

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Speaker 2: got to go through those possible eight times a day component.

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Speaker 2: But more than anything, you know, it's a really complex time.

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Speaker 2: It's November elections here in America. It means that we're

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Speaker 2: going to have, you know, the community is going to

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Speaker 2: have a lot of difficult choices to make with a

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Speaker 2: lot of noise that that deflects away from the primary issues.

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Speaker 2: You know, And I'm not trying to be negative, but

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Speaker 2: there is a part that we have to acknowledge that

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Speaker 2: the system is broken. I don't have the answers, lolo,

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Speaker 2: but you know, it's not as simple as just it's,

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Speaker 2: you know, an event, a couple of weeks of exposure

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Speaker 2: and then we all walk away. And I guess that's

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Speaker 2: the biggest part of it for me, is just trying

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Speaker 2: to understand that the biggest problems in this country don't

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Speaker 2: get solved. Is it the country and land of opportunity.

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Speaker 2: My word, it is. Are there wonderful people? Absolutely, the

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Speaker 2: nature and the beauty of this country is extraordinary. But

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Speaker 2: we have to go deeper, and.

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Speaker 1: It's time for justice. You know, it's time. It is time.

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Speaker 1: Like you just said, it's completely time. We need to

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Speaker 1: combat racism. And it is so ingrained in American history

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Speaker 1: obviously in Australian history in a different way as well.

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Speaker 2: I think it's ingrained in Australia. No, I don't want

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Speaker 2: to I mean, obviously for me, I just want to

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Speaker 2: touch on the fact. It's not to say that, you know,

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Speaker 2: I think we haven't. We haven't done our best by

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Speaker 2: our indigenous community in Australia. We haven't officially said a sorry.

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Speaker 2: That is of note. I think we have our own

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Speaker 2: set of complex problems. But for now, this conversation is

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Speaker 2: focused with the light on America and for anyone that

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Speaker 2: has been born with black skin, what does that mean?

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Speaker 2: Because they're really human. They have the same heart, the

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Speaker 2: same things that we have, and the same sense of hope,

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Speaker 2: and we are not born to hate. It's taught. So

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Speaker 2: we must find the process of change around that.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing you're honest and open

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Speaker 1: heart with us and being very it's very brave today

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Speaker 1: to come on. So I really appreciate that, and I

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Speaker 1: think at the end of this night, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to sound all whimsical and ethereal, which I love to

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Speaker 1: dip into. But if we can find a sense of hope,

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Speaker 1: and if that comes through speaking up shining a light

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Speaker 1: on this, well then you know that's the way forward.

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Speaker 1: And I think, you know, I just keep I keep

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Speaker 1: my mantra around this as there's more work to be

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Speaker 1: done from my own understanding and education, but on a

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Speaker 1: global scale there is work to be done. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, for now, we have to petition for justice for

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Speaker 2: George Floyd and we have to donate to Black Lives Matter.

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Speaker 2: So I would encourage anyone and any of your listeners

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Speaker 2: to look at the pages and educate yourself and really understand,

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Speaker 2: because I know everyone that follows you has great empathy,

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Speaker 2: and you know we need to use that empathy to

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Speaker 2: education and to forcing change, and that's not always easy.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much. And guys, if you do want

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Speaker 1: to learn about that, the really good Instagram page is

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Speaker 1: good good co If you just want to learn, educate yourself,

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Speaker 1: and there's a Netflix documentary called The Thirteenth. Jenfontaine, you

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Speaker 1: are wonderful. Thank you so much. I literally can't thank you.

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Speaker 1: No one can see. I'm holding my hand on my

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Speaker 1: heart here. I can't thank you enough for sharing today,

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Speaker 1: and please please stay safe, beg love to do your

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Speaker 1: some Maxwell.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Lola, thank you for having me again