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Speaker 1: Now we know that estimates ended for another year.

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Speaker 2: Yesterday, after a busy couple of weeks, the budget passed

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Speaker 2: in the Chamber following two weeks of the Opposition and

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Speaker 2: the Independents questioning ministers and departmental heads. One of the

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Speaker 2: more interesting areas of questioning was the Police Portfolio, with

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Speaker 2: the admission by the Police Minister Brent Potter one hundred

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Speaker 2: and ninety nine thousand calls to the emergency call center

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Speaker 2: our forecast for this financial year it equates to five

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Speaker 2: hundred and forty five calls every day. Joining me in

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Speaker 2: the studio right now as a Northern Territory Police Association President,

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Speaker 2: Nathan Finn, Good morning to you, Finny.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katy, and good morning for your listeners.

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Speaker 2: Now, I'm sure that you and staff in your office

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Speaker 2: would have been watching the estimates process roll out when

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Speaker 2: the Police portfolio came through.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely obviously keen to have a listened to some

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Speaker 3: of the questions and some of the answers were going

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Speaker 3: to be provided, but unfortunately we didn't get too many answers.

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Speaker 3: Unfortunately a lot of the questions posed to obviously the

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Speaker 3: Commission and also to the Minister as well. When unanswered

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Speaker 3: and obviously went unnoticed. So it was pretty disappointing that

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Speaker 3: that was the case, considering some of the questions should

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Speaker 3: be obviously knowledge of how we actually run the police

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Speaker 3: force and how we obviously allocate our resources to those areas,

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Speaker 3: and instead of lying on the phone calls to tell

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Speaker 3: us what's going on, we should be obviously doing some

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Speaker 3: proactive stuff around some of these figures that should have

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Speaker 3: been known.

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Speaker 2: So what were some of the numbers that you were

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Speaker 2: hoping for that you maybe didn't get the answers to.

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Speaker 3: Specifically around assaults against police. That's obviously a prime example

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Speaker 3: for us, and make sure how our members are protected

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Speaker 3: and making sure that they're looked after the two hundred

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Speaker 3: and ninety nine assaults that was recorded in the last

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Speaker 3: nine months is just horrendous. That's it's a totally unacceptable

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Speaker 3: came and it's unacceptable this still continues to these members

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Speaker 3: that continually turn up day after day to try and

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Speaker 3: protect the community with the resources they've got and the

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Speaker 3: struggles they're currently having. We've heard all the announcement, we've

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Speaker 3: heard all the fanfare in relation to the extra money

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Speaker 3: being provided to police, we still haven't seen that roll

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Speaker 3: out to the front line. How front line is struggling.

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Speaker 3: We haven't seen any actions taken in relation to increasing

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Speaker 3: our training portfolio our trainers to train these extra police officers.

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Speaker 3: We're still seeing the same levels of numbers in training.

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Speaker 3: We haven't expanded that ability to obviously enhance us to

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Speaker 3: get on more members earlier. So there's really some stuff

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Speaker 3: that need to be doing.

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Speaker 1: It's just on those police assaults.

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Speaker 2: What kind of assaults are officers being exposed to.

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Speaker 3: There's a number of different assaults. The members are being

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Speaker 3: assaulted during the course of making arrests. They're being physically assaulted,

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Speaker 3: they're being spat on. Still, a number of these members

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Speaker 3: are being hurt doing the role that they need to

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Speaker 3: do to protect our community, and that's disappointing for our members.

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Speaker 3: And these need to be echoed through the judicial system

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Speaker 3: as well in relation to appropriate sentencing for people that

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Speaker 3: choose it's an option to assault our police officers. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: the next police officer they are sold, they need to

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Speaker 3: be held responsible for that because the effect that has

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Speaker 3: on them to do their role and the ability to

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Speaker 3: do their role safely plays a big mind and whether

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Speaker 3: they're going to actually stay in the or where they're.

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Speaker 1: Going to go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would imagine it would you know, if you're

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Speaker 2: turning up to work and you're worried that something is

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Speaker 2: going to happen to you, you know, an assault is

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Speaker 2: going to happen to you, and some of those I

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Speaker 2: would imagine could become quite quite violent in some cases.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely and very violent. And when you haven't got

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Speaker 3: the resource to have that back up and something does

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Speaker 3: like that and you do get out numbered, unfortunate members

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Speaker 3: haven't got the ability to call on those resources to

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Speaker 3: help them, so they have to deal with a situation

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Speaker 3: in a situation that could escalate, and they're knowing that

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Speaker 3: they could escalate, so they've got to take different approaches

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Speaker 3: to how they deal with things. But again, they're not

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Speaker 3: being supported by that judicial system that's seeing those convictions

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Speaker 3: being recorded, but no actual punishment for it. And that's

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Speaker 3: disappointing for our members and disappointing for our members to

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Speaker 3: continue to do the job they love to do.

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Speaker 2: Finny, are you surprised by this forecast of one hundred

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Speaker 2: and ninety nine thousand calls to the emergency call center

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Speaker 2: for this financial year?

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Speaker 3: Definitely not. Then, unfortunately, this has been reported for a

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Speaker 3: long time. Extra resources have been promised for the jest

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Speaker 3: come when say JESK, the joint of Emergency Service and

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Speaker 3: Communications Center who take the not only police calls, but

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Speaker 3: also take fire and ambulance as well. So these people

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Speaker 3: are in a data with calls. We've seen in the

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Speaker 3: last annual figure that we're missing somewhat twenty five thousand

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Speaker 3: calls go on answer to that center as well, and

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Speaker 3: that's horrendous.

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Speaker 1: What do you reckon?

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Speaker 2: You know, with twenty five thousand unanswered calls to that center,

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Speaker 2: what do you think that says to territorians? Like, what

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Speaker 2: do you think everyday territorians think when that volume of calls?

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Speaker 3: You know yourself, Katie, when you phone someone and they

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Speaker 3: don't answer, you go clearly they didn't want to speak

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Speaker 3: to me, or they're not interested in what I had

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Speaker 3: to say. So, if people the public are making the

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Speaker 3: call to call police and they're not actually answering or

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Speaker 3: not actually responding to what they're actually saying, they feel

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Speaker 3: like they're undersupported. And that's unfair to our members because

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Speaker 3: most of the time they don't even know about these calls,

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Speaker 3: and they won't know about these calls unless they're dispatched

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Speaker 3: to one of these jobs.

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Speaker 1: So then how does it make those officers feel?

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Speaker 2: Well? Then when they like, let's say, you know, something

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Speaker 2: like that happens, then I end up getting a call

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Speaker 2: here at the station about it and people saying, you know, Katie,

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Speaker 2: I called the Emergency Call Centrome, wasn't able to get

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Speaker 2: through and no police turned up. Like that would be

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Speaker 2: something I would suspect that officers feel pretty disheartened by then.

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Speaker 3: Feel disheartened because their families are members of the community

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Speaker 3: as well, and they know that the level of service

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Speaker 3: that they're trying to provide and they can't provide that

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Speaker 3: currently is going missing, and they'd hate to see that

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Speaker 3: the same situation for one of their loved ones to

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Speaker 3: make a call to police and the police not turn

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Speaker 3: up and provide that support.

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Speaker 2: So is there an increase, like I know that the

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Speaker 2: Minister had announced a little while back that there was

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Speaker 2: going to be an increase in the number of call

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Speaker 2: takers going into the Joint Emergency Service Call Center.

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Speaker 1: Do you think we've got enough?

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Speaker 3: No, definitely not, Katie. And we've seen that over a

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Speaker 3: number of years. It's been neglected in that space. We

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Speaker 3: have a high attrition rate amongst the auxiliary call takers,

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Speaker 3: the pressure that's placed on them to answer these calls

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Speaker 3: and obviously elicit the information that they need to elicit,

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Speaker 3: and the types of horrendous stuff that they actually hear,

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Speaker 3: the reports that they're hearing, the vicarious trauma that they

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Speaker 3: suffer because of what they're hearing as well. It's a

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Speaker 3: tough role to do and we need to support them

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Speaker 3: providing extra staff to make sure that some of them

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Speaker 3: are taking one hundred calls per shift, so that's up

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Speaker 3: to twelve hours. It's a lot a lot of calls

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Speaker 3: and depending on what the information is and how serious

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Speaker 3: the matter is, it's a lot of pressure to blas

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Speaker 3: on these members. But we welcome the additional staff, but

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Speaker 3: we haven't seen that additional staff roll out to that

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Speaker 3: area at the moment. Now.

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Speaker 2: When you talk about those police numbers, so obviously that's

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Speaker 2: talking about the call center. When you talk about the

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Speaker 2: police numbers and the volume of police officers that we have,

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Speaker 2: was there any sort of was there any light shed

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Speaker 2: in this space and whether we're getting up to the

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Speaker 2: numbers that we actually need.

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Speaker 3: No, we're near that, Katie, and it's going to take

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Speaker 3: some time. Now. I'd love to say it's going to

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Speaker 3: happen within the six months, the next twelve months, I

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Speaker 3: don't believe. So we're still seeing as much as the

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Speaker 3: government claim that the attrition rate is six point one

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Speaker 3: four percent I believe, and estimates. The other day, we've

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Speaker 3: asked for the information of how that's co clated. We've

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Speaker 3: got different figures in relation to that attrition rate. Clearly

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Speaker 3: that they're excluding the certain parameters that they want to

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Speaker 3: put out there. Elettrition rate has come down, which quite

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Speaker 3: rightfully it needed to do so, and that's through the

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Speaker 3: change of management that we're doing obviously at the Police Association,

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Speaker 3: although executive holding those members to responsible to make sure

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Speaker 3: that their members are protected and looked after in that workplace.

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Speaker 2: So it sounds as though, even though the attrition rate's

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Speaker 2: getting a bit better, we still need more officers and

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Speaker 2: that's what you're hearing from the front line.

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Speaker 3: And definitely they still haven't got enough members to do

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Speaker 3: what they need to do on that front line. And

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Speaker 3: saying that it's not just the front line or either

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Speaker 3: it's the detective areas behind the scene that actually deal

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Speaker 3: with the serious cases as well. They're still struggling. We're

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Speaker 3: still seeing resources allocated to Operation Grimal and Alice Springs.

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Speaker 3: This is still the drawing from the resources in Down

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Speaker 3: and providing that reassurance to Ela Springs. I don't know

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Speaker 3: why that's continuing. Again, the weather pattern in Alice Springs

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Speaker 3: shows that there's a slow down at this time of

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Speaker 3: the year due to the weather patterns in Alice Springs

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Speaker 3: and it's a seasonal sort of events down there. We're

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Speaker 3: still seeing those extra members comen Ellis Springs, but again

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Speaker 3: they've been taking from the Darwen area from investigative roles

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Speaker 3: that still have their roles to do, and still no

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Speaker 3: one's doing their work when they're away.

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Speaker 2: Now it's not just officers that are obviously feeling that strain,

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Speaker 2: but we also know even when you look at some

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Speaker 2: of our infrastructure for Northern Territory Police, all those watchhouses

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Speaker 2: are still being used as well, used to house prisoners,

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Speaker 2: despite a commitment that they'd be handed back around midyear.

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Speaker 2: Was what the Police minister had said to me. What

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Speaker 2: are officers saying to you about this.

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Speaker 3: They've had that announcement, they provide that information to be midyear.

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Speaker 3: I presume that was midyea this year. I still haven't

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Speaker 3: heard anything about whether that might be midyear next year. Again,

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Speaker 3: we're seeing this still using our facilities there the watchhouses.

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Speaker 3: The numbers corrections was fifty four in the day on

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Speaker 3: watchhouse alone. We don't use that facility. It's been taken

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Speaker 3: over by corrections. We don't actually operate that facility that's

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Speaker 3: operated by corrections individually, fourteen at the Peter Marcaulay Center

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Speaker 3: and also thirty in the Allie Springs watch House. Alice

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Speaker 3: Springs Watchouse is the vital one. This is one we

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Speaker 3: cohabitate with corrections and that provides additional stress and resources

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Speaker 3: on our ability. These premises aren't built for long term

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Speaker 3: custody episodes. They haven't got exercise yards. The prisoners have

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Speaker 3: come quite violent, quite upset and being held in essentially

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Speaker 3: what is a six x three meter sell and they

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Speaker 3: get quite frustrated, and we're being provided to provide that

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Speaker 3: resource to make sure they're looked after in that cell.

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Speaker 1: So it sounds like it's pretty important.

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Speaker 2: That you know that they're able to be moved into

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Speaker 2: actual correctional facilities.

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Speaker 3: Own facilities, because it's a tragedy waiting to happen. We

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Speaker 3: wrote to the Chief ministrualily in the year, we wrote

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Speaker 3: to the Police Minister in respect to this and relaid

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Speaker 3: our concerns that our members had. It's a death in

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Speaker 3: custody waiting to happen, and unfortunately it's not going to

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Speaker 3: be on our members. I've raised this with the government.

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Speaker 3: They've done nothing about it. They said they were going

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Speaker 3: to be resolved by mid year. We still haven't heard

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Speaker 3: any announcements in relation to the extra Bedford correction facilities.

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Speaker 3: But again we don't want that to be placed on

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Speaker 3: our members and the stress that they have going into

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Speaker 3: those environments.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, and fundamentally we do not want a situation where,

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Speaker 2: you know, where a prisoner's life is lost. I mean,

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Speaker 2: that would be a terrible, terrible situation to have unfolded.

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Speaker 3: Definitely, we've seen a few escape customers from those facilities

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Speaker 3: as well, which is not ideal and it provides an

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Speaker 3: extra resource that we have to provide to obviously try

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Speaker 3: and locate these prisons.

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Speaker 2: One I would imagine you guys are working pretty closely

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Speaker 2: with corrections, you know, and the corrections crew doing a

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Speaker 2: really good job as well in terms of everybody trying

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Speaker 2: to work together on what seems like a less than

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Speaker 2: ideal situation.

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Speaker 3: Having the opportunity to speak to the corrections guys as well,

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Speaker 3: guys and girls. They're struggling for resources as well, but

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Speaker 3: you just don't hear about that. Unfortunately, overcrowding of our

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Speaker 3: prison system is creating a huge bird on their staffing

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Speaker 3: levels and their ability to maintain these extra facilities as

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Speaker 3: well is placing a huge burden on them. And unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: somewhere it's got to give, and they need to actually

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Speaker 3: establish that, make sure their resource appropriately and to make

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Speaker 3: sure that I can't see prison numbers and members of

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Speaker 3: the public in public going to corrections and for correctional

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Speaker 3: facilities as per offenses. We've seen the offences go through

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Speaker 3: the roof. There's going to be more and more people

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Speaker 3: placed into carceration, and especially if the government actually gets

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Speaker 3: serious and actually start sending these people for the crimes

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Speaker 3: they are actually doing and hold people responsible, it's going

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Speaker 3: to keep growing and they need to look at that.

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Speaker 1: Finny, we are going to have to get ready to

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Speaker 1: wrap up. But I do want to ask you.

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Speaker 2: We know that police over time, it's up seven percent

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Speaker 2: at a cost of over fifteen million dollars. What does

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Speaker 2: that mean in terms of the increase in the police

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Speaker 2: budget that was announced when the budget was handed down

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Speaker 2: a bit earlier this year.

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Speaker 3: It means that that figures I'm more worried about, not

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Speaker 3: worried about the monetary figure the side of things. That's

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Speaker 3: something for the police to manage, but I'm worried about

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Speaker 3: the fatigue management of our members to make sure that

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Speaker 3: this indicates to me that we haven't got enough police

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Speaker 3: to do it we need to do, whether that's they're

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Speaker 3: doing over time for a purpose of arrests or anything else,

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Speaker 3: or for absence of other members. Unfortunately, this play is

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Speaker 3: to the hands of our mental health and well being

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Speaker 3: of our members. If they're not being looked after, they're

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Speaker 3: not going to be able to continue to do the

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Speaker 3: job that they love to do. And if they need

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Speaker 3: to go on sickly for work related injuries, they need

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Speaker 3: to be looked after to make sure that they're supported

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Speaker 3: and there's backfilling of those support staff.

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Speaker 2: I mean, when you look at the numbers in terms

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Speaker 2: of at what cost it is financially, that's one thing,

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Speaker 2: But do we know how many hours that equates to

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Speaker 2: four officers?

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Speaker 1: Do we have any idea on that.

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Speaker 3: No, definitely, you'd have to obviously go through it. But

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Speaker 3: it equates a huge amount of numbers per day, and

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Speaker 3: we've seen that figure before that I believe that we

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Speaker 3: needed an extra thirty two vehicles on the road per day.

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Speaker 3: So that's not just two vehicles, that's two members per vehicle.

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Speaker 3: That's sixty four members available to operate and roster every

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Speaker 3: day to meet that demand. We can't meet that demand,

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Speaker 3: and our members are being placed under that pressure of

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Speaker 3: deciding which job I need to go to, and the

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Speaker 3: decision from the other person, dispatch person saying this more

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Speaker 3: priority than the other job, and making that strategic placement

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Speaker 3: of what they go to next to be hard and

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Speaker 3: that places the risk on them and they don't deserve

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Speaker 3: that risk. They are trying to do the best possible

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Speaker 3: job that they can possibly do in the environment they're

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Speaker 3: currently working in. But we actually need these resources to

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Speaker 3: hit the ground and for these resources to be in

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Speaker 3: that communication center to make sure that we're dictating what

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Speaker 3: cause we can take and make sure that the members

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Speaker 3: of the public are supported by anti police and we

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Speaker 3: are going to turn up. They want to know that, yeah,

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Speaker 3: and unfortunately they don't get that at the moment.

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Speaker 2: Well, look, Nathan Finn, we are going to have to

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Speaker 2: leave it there for this morning. Really appreciate your time.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much for joining us, and we'll talk

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Speaker 2: to you again very soon.

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Speaker 3: Always appreciate your time. Thank you, Katie, it's been a

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Speaker 3: while since we've been on kay. Thank you to the

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Speaker 3: men and women in blue that do an amazing job

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Speaker 3: right across the Northern Terrace. It's not just dar and

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Speaker 3: right across the Northern Church in our remote areas that

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Speaker 3: suffer through these conditions and making sure that they're well

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Speaker 3: looked after, and we're always here to make sure that

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Speaker 3: they are well looked after and we've got

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Speaker 1: Their bank absolutely, Nathan Finn, thank you.