WEBVTT - BRENDAN COWElL - PLUM - ABC 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.360 It's in the news today, but it was actually on TV. 0:00:02.160 --> 0:00:04.000 Reload, the podcast Plant Beef. 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:06.920 Hey guys, welcome back to TV Reload. I want to 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:09.680 thank you for clicking and downloading on today's episode with 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:12.760 Brendan Cow from Plum, which is about to be seen 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:15.000 on the ABC. And I have to tell you, Brendan 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:17.439 Cow would have to be one of my favorite Australian actors, 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:20.040 so I'm very excited to be chatting with him today. 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:23.600 Brendan was an actor that first came into my life 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:25.880 when I was watching Love My Way, which was on 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:28.440 Foxtail back in the day. And if you've been with 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:31.400 me for a long time listening to the podcast, you 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:34.920 may know that it is my favorite Australian drama series 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:38.880 ever made. So Brendan Cow not only stars in Plum, 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:41.480 but it's actually based on a book of the same name, 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:44.560 which he also wrote. Brenda will talk about how he 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.280 got started in the industry and what he remembers about 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:51.080 Love My Way. We will talk about how Brendan Cow 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:53.880 has passed over on Secret Lafe of Us, but how 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:56.720 his journey with John Edwards has led him back to 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.880 Asha Ketty. With this series, I will discuss the hurdles 0:00:59.880 --> 0:01:01.960 and if there was any with a pushback from the 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:05.319 Kranulla Sharks, considering a story can be quite sensitive at times. 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:08.320 You will even get to find out why Brendan cow 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:13.000 explores the Aussie man his ability to create authentic Australian stories, 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:15.160 and if he knew that the book Plum would be 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:17.280 made into a TV series when he was writing it. 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.559 There's actually so much to talk about, with so many 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:23.720 inside revelations as always, so guys, sit back and relax 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:26.920 as we unpack the wonderful world of Plum, which launches 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:28.840 this Sunday night on the ABC. 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:32.160 Hi Brendan, how I? How are you? 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:35.479 I am very well. I'm very excited to be talking 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:38.280 to you because I'm actually a very big fan and 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:40.040 so this is a real joy to be able. 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:40.720 To have this chat with you. 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:44.760 Thanks May Sadly, I loved Love My Way so much 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:47.720 that I've watched it every year since it has come out, 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:49.840 and I would go as far as saying on the 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.920 record that is my favorite TV show ever made. 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:57.520 We'll you'll take it. We were also young and attractive 0:01:57.520 --> 0:01:59.840 in that show. I like it. When PEED would talk about. 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:02.680 It still look the same. I'm watching Plum and I 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:06.240 can still see remnants. I've always wanted to talk to 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:09.720 you about the way in which you write and create 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:13.760 characters that feel more real and more authentic than any 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:16.959 other content creators that I've ever come across. 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.200 Well, I've never been called a content creator. Oh really, 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:25.120 I thought that was TikTok. I thought content was social 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:28.240 media thing. But I didn't realize Plum was Love my 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:30.240 Way and Plum were content. Are they content? 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:32.720 Yeah, I'd say it's content. I mean it's like content 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:37.080 creation is about making stories, making it compelling, and making 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:40.559 it interesting for people. And I guess maybe the influencers 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:42.639 in the way in which they create content. I've sort 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:45.240 of owned that phrase. But when I think about making 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:48.520 good Telly, which is what you do, that's content. 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:51.280 I would prefer to make people content. 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:53.480 That's a good way to go, a good way to 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:53.960 look at it. 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:58.320 If it makes me edgy and present and relevant, I'll 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:00.640 say I'm a content creator. But yeah, I mean Love 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:02.840 my Way. You know, that's where I didn't know what 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:04.800 I was doing when I started I Love my Way. 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:07.720 They you know i'd come off right and a few 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:11.720 crazy plays and winning a few playwriting awards. Patrick White 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:15.200 and Rabbit at the Stables and Bed and Rubin. You know, 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:18.160 I hadn't even ridden Reuben Guthrie yet, and Glaudia and 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:20.720 John kind of said they actually got me a meeting 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.480 with Secret Life of Us but didn't work out. And 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:26.280 then Love my Way, kind of Secret Life of Us 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:29.480 in your thirties, I guess, came along and I was 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:31.880 thrown into a story room with kind of these four 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:35.480 amazing women and myself and Tony mcnamart, you know, And 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:37.960 that's kind of where I had no idea how to 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:41.120 write television. But I got to watch the Owner series 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.440 and Jack and Percy and lou Fox and kind of 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:47.440 learn and I just listened, you know, And that's why 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:50.280 I've become good at what I did. I just really 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:52.480 I only had to hear it once, you know, and 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:55.080 I just asked a lot of questions and kind of 0:03:55.120 --> 0:04:01.400 took my expressive, kind of aggressive, aggressively comic theatrical style 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:05.760 into TV writing. But yeah, that's where I learned everything 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:07.800 from my way those kind of five years. 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:10.040 When did you realize that you had this sort of 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:15.640 ability to write characters and write characters that represented Australian 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:17.080 people so well, you know. 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.159 It was probably when I wrote Men, my first play 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:24.160 in two thousand, which I wrote in a pure you know, 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:29.000 through pure vanity to just lift up my non existent 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:32.320 acting career in nineteen ninety nine two thousand, it was like, 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:34.080 I'm going to write a play with a great role, 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:35.599 and I'm going to put it on so then people 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:38.200 will be forced to watch me act. And the play 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:40.160 sold out at the Old Fids, went to Belvoire, went 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:42.640 to Edinburgh, went to New York. It was my first play, 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:46.280 and everyone said, write another play, and I thought, and 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:48.200 I wrote another one for me to be in Happy 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:50.160 new and then I wrote a third one and I thought, 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:52.440 I won't be in this one. And people were really 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:55.920 resonating with the young people that I was writing, particularly 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:59.080 the rage and the young male, and I felt that 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:01.640 there was a real kind of gap in what I 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:04.560 was seeing on stage, and I felt I could really 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:08.680 communicate what it was like to have these bewildering emotions, 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:12.320 these conflicting emotions, and that I could write relationships. And 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:15.000 then as I grew up, grew older, I started to 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.360 want to, you know, I guess deal with the family, 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.599 the Australian family, which is something that i've kind of 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:21.559 rested on in Plum. 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:25.520 I think that's vulnerability in what you've explored with men. 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.520 And I think before we, you know, before you're talking 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:30.640 about this work, we sort of had this way of 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:34.280 presenting men and their struggles as just being one dimens 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:38.160 and I think it's really impressive with how that vulnerability 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:40.479 comes through with a lot of your characters. I mean, 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:44.120 we see that again in this series so well. I mean, 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:46.680 you could easily be making this very sort of polarizing 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:50.599 character and have it him be unlikable. But every single 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:53.520 second that you're watching this character on screen, there's this 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.800 vulnerability that makes you compelled to keep watching his story 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:58.479 and feel for him. 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:01.240 Thank you. And I guess that's is that a question 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:05.000 or a provoking statement? I guess when I watch men 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:08.640 behaving badly in TV of film and I'd find myself 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:12.719 not connected, it's because they're swept up in their own 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:17.839 torture and self importance, and those kind of characters I 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.160 don't find interesting because I don't find any access to them. 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:24.000 And I'm not talking about likability, but in order to 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:28.280 access a character, we need to see them trying, and 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:31.560 Peter Lum is trying to face something so much bigger 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.520 than him. But he doesn't have the emotional skills. He's 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:37.640 never been taught them. What he's been taught is the opposite. 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:41.560 I'll never take a backwards step plow on almost like 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:43.720 he not only does he not know how, he doesn't 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:47.160 feel like he's allowed to deal with this in the 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.719 proper way, which is to communicate, reach out, ask for help, 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:54.679 admit that you're scared. And you know, I remember writing 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:57.280 episode three of The Slap Harry and Harry's the man 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:01.039 that slaps the kid, and thinking, well, he does actually 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:04.800 go and apologize, and you know, and I learned that 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.960 the audience went with Harry once he turned around and went, Okay, 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:10.280 I'll try. And I think it's all that we want 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:14.640 from our male figures is for them to try or 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:16.840 just try to try. And I didn't have a lot 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:19.800 of male role models growing up that did that. But 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:22.280 what I love about Peter Love is that he is 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:25.320 a beautiful man. It's very sentimental, and that's what I 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:27.440 found with a lot of rugby league players. They are 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:32.600 really sentimental, utterly family people. But these men are capable 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:36.040 of uncertable, you know, of bad behavior when they get 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:39.080 overwhelmed by something they don't have a language for and 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:42.200 trying to articulate. That means that you can push the 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:45.880 behavior of a character further because you've connected the audience 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:47.840 to the fact that there's a lost eight year old 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:50.760 boy in there trying to try to get out, you know. 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.600 And if we can connect an audience to the pain 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:58.080 and the confusion, then we've got great comic tragic behavior, 0:07:58.120 --> 0:07:59.880 which is really what you want to watch. You want 0:07:59.920 --> 0:08:03.600 to watch people behaving, yeah on screen, you know what 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:06.880 I mean, not suffering things, but behaving out of the 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:10.800 corner of their own kind of torture. And that's what 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:13.400 kind of plumb is. He's this good bloke being fucked 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:17.200 over by fate, fate being a brain injury that he 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:19.640 didn't mean to get, and this whole family try to 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:21.920 deal with it. They're good people, and you know that's 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:24.440 what I try to write. It's good people behaving badly 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:26.600 because what faith has presented them with. 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:28.880 Well, we get to see ourselves on screen. I think 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:30.520 through a lot of your work, and I think that's 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:34.560 an accessibility that is the magic behind you. And I 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:37.800 think that the key to this series, whether it represents 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:40.320 what I'm talking about or whether it is about the sport. 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:44.520 I feel like his journey where he's struggling to face 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:47.840 the realities of something and keeping it a secret is 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:49.760 something that I think we all do, you know. 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:50.960 I think that's right. 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:54.280 You ask anybody, and they spend so much time worrying 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:57.160 about something that's eating themselves up inside that they don't 0:08:57.200 --> 0:08:59.679 feel that they can reach out and ask for help. 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.760 And I think that's what drew me to this story. 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:05.600 That's what made the story for me so compelling, because 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:07.560 it made me sort of look back at myself and 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:10.160 think about the things that I don't verbalize, and then 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:12.040 I don't feel comfortable asking for help with. 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:17.439 Oh yeah, and everyone is so anxious, and it manifests 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:19.880 in your body what you hold in me, you know, 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:22.880 and it spits out sideways in the wrong way. Whatever 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:25.080 we hold in me, it will bubble over. 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:27.760 I think it's fear, you know. Fear is really interesting 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:32.240 because when we as people feel fear, we behave badly. Yeah, 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:34.480 And that's what I think happens to all of us, 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:36.720 you know, when we don't have the answers, that's usually 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.040 where bad behavior starts to sort of surf it well, 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:40.840 sort of that's where it's that's the root of where 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:41.600 it's coming from. 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:45.320 That's right. Fear stands for fuck everything and run. 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:48.199 When people are rude to me, or I see people 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:51.720 behaving badly, my brain tells me that that person's in trouble. 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:52.200 You know. 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:54.840 My brain doesn't tell me to fuck you and fuck 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:56.360 off from that, do you know what I mean? Like, 0:09:56.559 --> 0:10:00.680 I see fear as a request and I see bad 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:02.560 behavior as a request for help. 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:05.559 Wow, well you must be a good friend and family 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:09.199 member if you're like that, because that's that's the higher ground, right, 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:11.640 that's the ninja move man, if you can get to 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:14.960 that kind of level of evolution. But when it comes 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:18.439 to family, that's not always achievable because family pressure buttons. 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:21.960 Relationships press your buttons, and so you try to take 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:25.040 the higher road, but it hurts, you know, the ones 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:27.160 who love us the most, of the ones where the 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:29.760 most cruel to you know what I mean, And the 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:32.440 ones that we struggle to communicate with. You know, you 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:34.559 can probably tell your hairdresser or the guy at the 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:36.920 pub what's really going on for you. And in Plumb's case, 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:40.480 Sylvia Plats, the ghost of Sylvia platf he can tell 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:43.360 you know what I mean? Like he can tell a 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:47.760 trans poetry club owner what's really going on for him? 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.480 Can he tell his girlfriend and his fucking son, you. 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:50.920 Know what I mean? 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:54.480 And that's kind of the grand irony, isn't it? But yeah, 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:58.000 I think fear, You know, perfectionism is fear. You hear 0:10:58.080 --> 0:10:59.800 people who go, oh, let me tell you about this. 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.120 I know this. You know the alpha male, all those 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:07.040 overconfident people who pretend to know everything and they can't 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:10.480 change their opinion, and they need everyone to hear their opinion, 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.000 and they go on the internet and they savage other 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:17.160 people's opinion. They are completely possessed by fear. Fear is 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:20.480 controlling them, and that turns into anger and resentment and 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:22.760 the need to tell everybody that they're wrong. And you 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:26.880 think you are wasting such a huge period of your 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:32.040 life being controlled by fear in such a negative way. 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:34.200 And if you can let go and let go of 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:36.840 your ego for a second and let your ego drift 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:38.960 out to sea, you can be present and you can learn. 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.720 And this is what Peter Lum learns, is that you know, 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:43.959 once you let go of your ego and you open 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:47.160 yourself up, suddenly the misfits and the people that you 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.560 never saw in Cronulla become your friends, and you see 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:53.200 that everyone's human and everyone's trying, and if you surround 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:55.400 yourself by people who think the same as you, you're 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.199 never going to grow. You're just going to stay controlled 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:00.880 by that same fear and anger. And Peter Lum learned 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:04.520 that there's just so much more to life than just 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:07.960 thinking the same thing and doing life the same way, 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:10.679 you know what I mean, and hiding out, and he 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:14.400 starts to grow in episode five and six when he 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:15.960 puts this to the test. 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:19.600 The characters they're so eclectic in so many ways, and 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:23.120 they bring out different things in him, and it's really 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:25.800 powerful to watch what it is that people that he'd 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:27.880 never seen and you're in your words, you know, had 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:30.760 never seen them before, what they sort of letting down 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:32.880 those barriers just a little bit and finding out about 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:35.960 other people. How that's actually helped him out unlock some 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:38.640 of the answers for himself. And I think that is 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:41.840 sort of how you've structured this story, because in episode 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.040 one it's a real starting point and the evolution of 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.000 where we're going with this story is quite brilliant. It's 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.760 quite amazing. It's quite uplifting, and I think that's what 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.280 we want from television, you know, we want real and 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:55.720 this can be quite bleak, I think at times, but 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:58.679 I think it takes us on a journey that's quite rewarding. 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:02.320 Yeah, watch a lot of television that I don't think 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:07.800 respects the Australian slash global audience. I think Australians watch 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:11.040 a lot of TV, especially coming out of the pandemic, 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:16.079 and we live complicated, difficult lives here and you know, 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:19.559 throughout history and through what's going on now politically and 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:24.160 in the suburbs. You know, things like this affect lives. 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.760 And I Fiona Series and I who wrote the show together, 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.920 adapted the novel together. We really wanted to give the 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:35.240 audience a big job to do and to live in 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:38.520 the grayness, especially in a black and white world now 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:41.520 where everyone's like love hate, you know, and there's nothing 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:43.640 in the middle. We wanted to make a messy show 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:47.600 where women, men, young and old. Everyone behaves well and 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:51.200 everyone behaves badly. Everyone's reacting to the ripple effects of 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.760 the King of Crinulla's brain injury. And that's when after 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:58.080 one and two, where you see you know, basically denial. 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:00.760 You know, the first act of the three dramas, there's 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:04.960 two episodes, and he's behind denials. You know there is 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:08.079 no monster. Episode two. Okay, there is a monster. I'll 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:09.720 admit there's a monster. It doesn't mean I'm going to 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:12.040 do anything about it. Three or four he starts to go, 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:14.160 oh shit, if I don't admit there's a monster and 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:16.600 do something about it, I'm going to fuck my whole family, 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:21.040 Like this is going to really destroy all my relationships. Yeah, 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.560 and then five and six, you know, I'm going to 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:25.800 have a look at this monster, see the monsters in me, 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:29.240 and try to change change who I am. And you know, 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:32.040 what we really wanted to do was just you know, 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:36.040 which is often hard with networks and investors because they're like, 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:39.800 this isn't clear and this person's behaving in a negative way, 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:43.760 and they go, yes, haven't you in situations like this, 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:46.160 isn't that what we do when we love too much 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:48.880 and we're scared? And then it flips it on its 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.680 head that you think, Oh Renee played by the extraordinary 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:55.840 Ashi Ketty, she's this nosy, kind of shallow Oh hang on, 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:58.440 she's going to save the day here she's the one 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:00.560 with the biggest heart. She's going to rescue. And you 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:03.560 start to watch the characters behave in different ways and 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:07.800 fulfill different roles within the family and surprise each other, 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:12.720 and they change and people don't change. And I guess 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:15.560 that's what this shows about, is change isn't drinking a 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:18.960 little more water and turning your phone off the ten minutes, 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:23.240 and that's not changed. Change is doing what you're not doing, 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:27.200 doing something else, turning around one point eighty, faithing the 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:31.400 other way, becoming another person. It is so hard to change, 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:34.320 It is so scary. And if you if you're interested 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.480 in fear, then try and change, you know what I mean, 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:39.920 because you have to face all of them. And Peter Lum, 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:43.880 the allegend toughest guy in Australia, is finally scared of it. 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:47.320 And the thing he's most scared of is personal growth 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:52.120 and change and vulnerability. He'll run at any Pacific islander forward. 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:54.240 He will fight anyone in a boxing ring or in 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:56.840 a pub. But you put him, you know, put him 0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:01.040 in front of himself and he's try childer me then 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:04.920 and suddenly he's terrified, you know, And yeah, his mortality. 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:07.320 I always feel like that. I'm scared of a lot 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:10.120 of things, but my parents told me to push against 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:13.120 the fear. So instead of seeing something and going oh, 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:17.640 I'm scared of that and walking away or recoiling from that, 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.640 I've was brought up to push myself against the fear. 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:24.240 So I'm often in situations where people I don't even 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:26.360 think realize how nervous or scared I am. 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:27.360 But I am. 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:31.520 And that's because I'm so thirsty for living my life 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:33.680 and pushing myself, you know what I mean, and getting 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:34.480 the most out of it. 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:36.920 I guess that's wonderful. And what do you want to 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:39.760 look back on when you're seventy eighty ninety, you know, 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:42.000 is all the things you didn't do or all the 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:42.680 times you're scared? 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:44.920 Did you jump out of the plane? You know, it's 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:47.120 interesting just to take a side step, just very quickly, 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:48.960 because we are running out of time. One of the 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:50.960 things I love about this show is the fact that 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:54.880 watching it on my television in Queensland, I could smell Sydney. 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:58.800 That's how well you captured Sydney and Cronulla. I've got 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:00.960 my best friend that lives in Crinola, so I go 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:03.760 there often and as soon as I was watching the show, 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:06.760 and very cleverly. I think the Noiseworks song that was 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:11.000 chosen as well captured the setup of I just I 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:13.040 don't know, does it sound silly to you that I'm 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:15.320 saying this, but it just you could smell it. It 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:16.320 was so visceral. 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:18.919 Yeah, thank you very much. And I think, you know, 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:21.199 talking to my mother a lot about it, like, we 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:25.679 don't make shows enough that are affectionate, you know, that 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:30.639 are affectionate landscapes of the insights into the suburban life. 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:33.639 If we do, we're mocking the way we speak, or 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:38.520 we're showing this really depressing documentary about people living on 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:41.240 the fringes. And a lot of the reviews for my 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:44.840 novel were col sets sets his tail in the in 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:48.680 the suburban world or cow suburban and you think, well, 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:51.240 most of us live there, most of us grew up there. 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:55.720 Seventy percent. This is Australian life. I just went there 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:58.520 with a lens. You know, that's the importance of that speech. 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.240 At the start, he's got it argent girlfriend that puts 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:05.200 skinwire in the salad, and he's got a Torres Straight 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:08.639 Island girlfriend and they go to the gym together and 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:11.840 you know, I go down there all my mates. I've 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:15.520 got four kids and they're freethinking people, and you have 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:19.720 conversations in what's called slow time. You sit around a 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.280 table eating sausages with a kinwar salen the kids that 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:25.679 the sixteen kids in the pool, and you have a 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:29.600 chat for two hours and you hear people's pain and 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:33.520 the illnesses and the changes and the thoughts and there's 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:36.399 real dialogue going down there on a different pace. And 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:41.520 I wanted to show suburban people dealing with something beyond 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:45.720 them and how they get in via love and connection 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.239 and how strong the family connection is down there. And 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:51.520 I think at the end of the day, you know, 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:54.320 Plumb is about a guy suffering from a brain injury 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.200 who learns that poetry can be healing. Right, that's probably 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:00.760 the one liner. But really it's about Australians urban family. 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:04.200 It's about our lives and it's about pushing on together. 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:07.480 And I think that's where we really found the shark. 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:09.760 It would be remissive me not to ask this question 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:11.440 just before you go, but I mean, sport is such 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:13.800 a huge part of Australian culture, and you know, the 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:16.359 Kernella sharks are just such an iconic team. I was 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:19.399 curious about, you know, was there any pushback from them 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:22.159 in terms of portraying some of the harsher realities of 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.680 the game, because I think that is also a huge 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:27.879 part of this story. And I was curious about you 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:31.280 being careful not to sort of either glorify it or 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:33.520 make it look too dangerous. I mean, what was going 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:35.119 through your brain looking at that? 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:37.920 When I wrote the book, I didn't know I would 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:40.280 be making a TV show, you know, And I don't 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:42.280 want to be one of those novelists who writes a 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:44.359 book that looks like a TV show. I want to 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:46.960 write an inner monologue, which I think is what Plum 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:49.639 the novel is. And if anything, I hope the TV 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:52.440 show makes people read the book, you know, because the 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:55.040 book is so much more epic. You know, It's got 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:57.520 lots of different storylines in it. And if you like 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:00.399 the show, by the book, you know, the Sharks, the 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:02.920