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Speaker 1: She's on the Money. She's on the Money. Hello, and

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Speaker 1: welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast for millennials

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Speaker 1: who want financial freedom?

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Speaker 2: Is that still relevant? It's not just millennials. Cite lots

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Speaker 2: of other people.

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Speaker 1: To everyone who wants financial freedom. We can't change the cat,

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Speaker 1: We can't the catchphrase.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well we won't do that, say millennials, but we

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Speaker 2: mean everybody. Guy. Should I do it again? No? Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: let's carry on.

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Speaker 1: So, navigating money is a tricky business, and things can

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Speaker 1: get a whole lot trickier when you're navigating it with

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Speaker 1: your partner. For example, how do you figure out how

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Speaker 1: to balance the bills without micromanaging and souring the relationship?

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Speaker 1: How do you?

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Speaker 2: Am I going to have to answer this? Maybe I'll

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Speaker 2: help answer it, all right, that's good.

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Speaker 1: How do you share the load if one of you

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Speaker 1: earns six figures and the other one's doing an unpaid internship.

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Speaker 2: Well I'm not in that situation, so I don't know how.

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Speaker 1: And very importantly, what do you do if you have

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Speaker 1: very different money goals and values? Surely you can answer

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Speaker 1: that one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like goals and values, value?

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Speaker 1: All right. My name is Georgia King, and you've heard

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Speaker 1: her several times already joining me today to answer the

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Speaker 1: tough questions, is Victoria divine? Before we do get into it,

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Speaker 1: doer any particularly juicy stories about relationships and finance.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if it's juicy, but I did have

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Speaker 2: money issues in one of my relationships. Historically. It wasn't

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Speaker 2: a massive awful issue, right, It was just we had

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Speaker 2: differing income. So I was still at university and my

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Speaker 2: ex partner was not at university and was really smart.

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Speaker 2: So I had a really high paying job and I wasn't.

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Speaker 2: So that's why I kind of was like, oh, I

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Speaker 2: don't know how to answer that when you said unpaid

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Speaker 2: internship and six because that was literally my situation. But

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Speaker 2: the tough situation was that he wanted me to contribute

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Speaker 2: fifty to fifty and that just wasn't financially viable because

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Speaker 2: he could save massive amounts and I couldn't, And it

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Speaker 2: just ended up putting us in a position where we

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Speaker 2: would argue all the time about you know, wanting to

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Speaker 2: do things and me not wanting to do things. And

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Speaker 2: you know, we lived in a really nice apartment because

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Speaker 2: that's what he chose and wanted to live in and

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Speaker 2: I felt like it was just a really big financial stretch,

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Speaker 2: and I was working my butt off to feel like

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Speaker 2: I didn't have much left at the end of the

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Speaker 2: day because I was doing unifull time and then working

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Speaker 2: in hospitality, and then also working in retail on the

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Speaker 2: weekends because hashtag Sunday pay. But all of that wasn't

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Speaker 2: really making me feel like I was contributing to somebody

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Speaker 2: who was earning a significant amount more. And you know what,

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Speaker 2: it wasn't the crux of our relationship. And I'm not

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Speaker 2: dramatizing it much, but I think that it's important to

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Speaker 2: talk about because that's a situation that I know a

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Speaker 2: lot of our community has been in.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so fifty to fifty is an option. What are

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Speaker 1: some other ways of managing money in a relationship?

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Speaker 2: Gee, managing money in a relationship or with our lover.

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Speaker 2: As you've written in our notes is it's very hard

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Speaker 2: and it's not one size fits all. In fact, personal

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Speaker 2: finance is just that it is personal, my friends, and

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Speaker 2: not every single person is going to manage their money

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Speaker 2: in the same ways. I have friends who manage it

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Speaker 2: completely independently. I have clients who manage it independently. I

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Speaker 2: have clients who manage it together. The way I manage

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Speaker 2: my money might not be the way you and Harps

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Speaker 2: manage your money, and I think that that's cool. It

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Speaker 2: doesn't actually matter how you do it, as long as

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Speaker 2: you are comfortable with it and both parties in whatever

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Speaker 2: relationship you are in, or maybe there's more than two

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Speaker 2: parties in the relationship, it doesn't matter. Everybody just has

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Speaker 2: to feel like they're on the same page. And that

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Speaker 2: starts with communication. It starts with talking about your money.

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Speaker 2: It starts with talking about what you want to do

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Speaker 2: with it. And to do another fluffy episode break here.

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Speaker 2: It is about not only understanding your money story, but

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Speaker 2: also understanding your partner's money story deeply, because if you

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Speaker 2: feel inherently different about money to the way they do,

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Speaker 2: you're not going to be able to understand the way

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Speaker 2: they make money decisions, and you're always going to be like, oh,

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Speaker 2: but why does he do why does she do? Or

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Speaker 2: why do they always do that with their money? I

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Speaker 2: just don't get it. And for you to understand that,

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Speaker 2: you actually need to go back to the way that

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Speaker 2: they were raised. So lots of people in our community

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Speaker 2: have suggested having a joint bank account, which can be

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Speaker 2: a really great idea. In fact, our friends over it

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Speaker 2: up Bank have just recently done their two up series.

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Speaker 2: It's not like the other shared bank accounts. We have

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Speaker 2: to go into bank and you have to set it

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Speaker 2: up and sign for it. And if you and your

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Speaker 2: partner don't see Eida eye anymore, you don't have to

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Speaker 2: march them down to the bank to sign off on

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Speaker 2: an account that you don't want together anymore. They have

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Speaker 2: this two up feature where you can kind of like

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Speaker 2: invite them to be a game player in your joint

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Speaker 2: account and then you run it together and you have

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Speaker 2: the same responsibilities and it's just much easier. And to

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Speaker 2: be honest, their branding is really cool and maybe that's

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Speaker 2: what's selling me, but it's not. I just think the

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Speaker 2: feature is really cool and also low key sharing too

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Speaker 2: much personal information. That's not about me. It's actually about Jess,

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Speaker 2: her and her partner I have just started using yeah,

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Speaker 2: and she's really liking it. So that's Jess's first joint

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Speaker 2: fund with her boyfriend. Yes, Oh that's that's a big step. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: she's going to talk about Jod soon. I've been talking

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Speaker 2: about it. That's why I'm sharing. It is not a

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Speaker 2: secret gotch, but she's really liking it, and I actually

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Speaker 2: I think that that's a really cool way to do it,

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Speaker 2: because it's like having a joint fund, but it's kind

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Speaker 2: of less of a commitment, so you can use it

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Speaker 2: for other people to like your housemate or your roommate,

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Speaker 2: without actually having to establish an entirely new bank account,

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Speaker 2: which look it can be an admin drama, but it

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Speaker 2: can also just be a really a really big pain.

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Speaker 2: So joining finances by having a joint account can be

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Speaker 2: a good idea because it means that you both function

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Speaker 2: independently when it comes to money. You both have your

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Speaker 2: income and then you have a set amount that you

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Speaker 2: choose to put into a joint account. And then some

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Speaker 2: couples actually have all of their money going into one

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Speaker 2: account and they share their finances completely. And this is

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Speaker 2: not a good or a bad way to go about it.

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Speaker 2: It is the way I manage money with my partner,

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Speaker 2: and I'm open about that because I have nothing to hide.

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Speaker 2: But then also I just want more people to have

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Speaker 2: more conversations about how money is managed and what that

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Speaker 2: looks like and just how it flows. I'm not asking you, hey, Georgia,

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Speaker 2: how much money do you earn? Because that's not the

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Speaker 2: conversation at hand. It's just how I manage my cash flow,

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Speaker 2: and that's kind of interesting. And it also helps me

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Speaker 2: when I know what you're up to, because you might

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Speaker 2: have a good idea that I haven't thought about, and

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Speaker 2: money conversations can only empower us if they had in

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Speaker 2: that way. So everything goes into the one account and

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Speaker 2: then we jointly make decisions on that lump sum of

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Speaker 2: money instead of talking about what I bring to the

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Speaker 2: table and what he brings to the table. And for

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Speaker 2: us that works really well, and for some of my

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Speaker 2: clients that works really well, especially when they do things

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Speaker 2: like go on matt leave, because they don't feel like

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Speaker 2: they're not contributing to the family anymore because they always

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Speaker 2: just had to their money. And they're not talking about

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Speaker 2: what Georgia earns versus Victoria earns, and what have you

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Speaker 2: earned and how can we do this? It's always just okay, well,

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Speaker 2: this is our income together. So it's different for everybody,

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Speaker 2: and I can't harp on about that enough. But there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of different ways to manage finances, and in fact,

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Speaker 2: you might decide that you don't want to manage finances

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Speaker 2: at all with your partner, and you just want them

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Speaker 2: to tell you what half the bill is every month,

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Speaker 2: and that is what it is, and you're just are independent.

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Speaker 2: That is also completely cool. There is no right and

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Speaker 2: no wrong.

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Speaker 1: Back to the way you manage your money with your partner.

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Speaker 2: Oh, you want me per the answers I see.

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Speaker 1: I want to know from your perspective what elements of

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Speaker 1: risk there are in doing that, because obviously, yeah, so

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Speaker 1: how do you safeguard yourself from those risks? Because you know,

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Speaker 1: we're all about empowering women to exactly their careers.

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Speaker 2: But exactly. Kind of very glad you asked that, because

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Speaker 2: it can be a really bad step for a lot

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Speaker 2: of people. It can lead to financial abuse, It can

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Speaker 2: lead to so many things occurring that you might not

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Speaker 2: want to occur, can leave you to feel like you're

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Speaker 2: not as independent as you deserve to feel. So for

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Speaker 2: me personally, I have my own bank accounts still, I

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Speaker 2: have an emergency fund that my partner can't touch, sucker,

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Speaker 2: and we have both joined access on that account, and

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Speaker 2: at this point in my life, I feel really comfortable

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Speaker 2: for him to have that, and we have this mortgage together,

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Speaker 2: and that your account that our money goes into is

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Speaker 2: actually an off set on our mortgage, so that our

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Speaker 2: money's working as hard for us as we do for it,

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Speaker 2: and all of the other stuff that I usually pipe.

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Speaker 2: But for me, I think having that emergency fund off

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Speaker 2: to the side, to make sure that I have access

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Speaker 2: to money twenty four seven that nobody else can touch

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Speaker 2: or take away from me is what helps me feel

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Speaker 2: like okay, Like if the proverbial ever hit the fan,

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Speaker 2: I'm okay, I know why that works for me. I'm

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Speaker 2: not saying it would work for you. So that's where

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Speaker 2: I think joint accounts are really helpful. And you might

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Speaker 2: actually combine finances completely, but never choose to get paid

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Speaker 2: into that account, so it might come into your own

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Speaker 2: personal bank account, and then every single month you make

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Speaker 2: the decision to transfer it manually to a joint account.

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Speaker 2: So you're managing money together. But there's that hurdle to

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Speaker 2: make sure that you always are in control of your

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Speaker 2: income and it's not going into somebody else's hands automatically,

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Speaker 2: And that's a really important step to take.

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Speaker 1: If you split from a legal perspective, would you just

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Speaker 1: cut it in half?

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Speaker 2: Is that how it works from a legal if it

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Speaker 2: always starts at fifty to fifty, but then it goes

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Speaker 2: back and forth in percentages depending on what the personal

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Speaker 2: situation is. I'm obviously not a lawyer, so it can't

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Speaker 2: pass too much comment on that. But the thing about

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Speaker 2: the law is when you're going through a separation with

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Speaker 2: your partner, they don't necessarily care too much about the law.

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Speaker 2: And we've all heard about people who have had their

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Speaker 2: bank accounts cleaned out by their partner. And you're right,

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Speaker 2: you can go down the legal track and hopefully recover

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Speaker 2: that at some point, but you in that moment and

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Speaker 2: at that point in time, have no access to money,

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Speaker 2: and that is the problem. It is not okay, well,

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Speaker 2: you know, down the track they'll get it back, like

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Speaker 2: your partner has left you stranded in that situation. I

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Speaker 2: think that's really important to talk about because it can

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Speaker 2: happen and you do need to be really vigilant.

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Speaker 1: So let's move on here, be at what stage in

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Speaker 1: the relationship should you talk about combining your finances. I

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Speaker 1: saw in the Facebook group that it seems to be

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Speaker 1: when people move in together or buy a house, which

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Speaker 1: makes sense is that usually the time.

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Speaker 2: Can I say never. Yeah, yeah, So the answer never.

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Speaker 2: You never should have to talk about it. You can

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Speaker 2: talk about it, but it is not an essential relationship step.

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Speaker 2: If you want to manage your money independently, you do that. Friend,

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Speaker 2: I don't want you to feel like, oh, I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: move in with this guy. I guess we should do this.

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Speaker 2: If it makes sense to then have a joint bank

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Speaker 2: account to pay for bills or to pay for it,

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Speaker 2: go for it. But I want people to feel like

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Speaker 2: they can maintain their independence and not be reliant on

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Speaker 2: somebody else or have somebody else control their financial future.

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Speaker 2: Like what if you just don't want your partner to

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Speaker 2: see your bank statements. You're not trying to hide your purchases.

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Speaker 2: You just feel uncomfortable with it. That's your story to tell.

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Speaker 2: It is not somebody else's to just get access to it.

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Speaker 2: And being in a relationship is a privilege, like you

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Speaker 2: are sharing yourself with somebody else. They should always have

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Speaker 2: respect for you, your decisions, your body, your choices, and

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Speaker 2: if they don't respect that, you just want to manage

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Speaker 2: your money on your own, Like that's a massive red

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Speaker 2: flag to me. So there's no time that you should

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Speaker 2: but there are a number of time that you might

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Speaker 2: want to start the conversation personally and that's okay. It

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Speaker 2: might be moving in together, it might be getting a

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Speaker 2: mortgage together. You might have some debt together. You might

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Speaker 2: have a child which means you've got this big expense

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Speaker 2: now that you're both jointly responsible for, so someone wants

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Speaker 2: to cover it. So I think it is really important

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Speaker 2: to realize that you don't have to have a conversation

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Speaker 2: about combining finances, but you do have to have a

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Speaker 2: conversation about is money. You have to talk to your

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Speaker 2: partner about money. You have to be on the same page,

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Speaker 2: and you do have to understand what their view is

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Speaker 2: and what they want to do and understand why as well.

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Speaker 1: How do you have that conversation?

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Speaker 2: You just go, hey, Georgia, how do you feel about

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Speaker 2: joint finances? On date one? Yeah? Just on date one. Actually,

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Speaker 2: I've got this survey right that I used to take

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Speaker 2: on dates. It would be like, what's your ability to

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Speaker 2: earn income in the future? Are your parents wealthy? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: All those really important questions you ask on a first date.

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Speaker 2: But no, can you imagine if people were asking those

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Speaker 2: questions on a first date, not only is it super invasive.

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Speaker 2: It's really weird, and I don't want people to feel

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Speaker 2: like they have to start that conversation. But if you

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Speaker 2: think it's starting to get serious with somebody, that money

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Speaker 2: conversation should start early on, understanding that money conversations are

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Speaker 2: had all around us at all times. They don't necessarily

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Speaker 2: have to be about you. They don't necessarily have to

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Speaker 2: be about like, hey, Georgia, what do you earn? Like?

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Speaker 2: I think it's more about like, oh, don't feel like

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Speaker 2: you always have to get it, like I don't know

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Speaker 2: your money situation. Giving people permission to have a conversation

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Speaker 2: with you about money is really important as well. And

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Speaker 2: they're only going to want to talk to you about

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Speaker 2: money if you've made them feel really comfortable to do so,

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Speaker 2: And often that starts with a level of vulnerability from

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Speaker 2: you because they might not be ready for it. I

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Speaker 2: don't think throwing questions like so, what do you think

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Speaker 2: about money is a good idea to begin a money conversation,

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Speaker 2: But talking about your own finances with the me is like, oh,

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Speaker 2: so I've got this bill coming up and it's really

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Speaker 2: stressing me out because like, oh my gosh, I completely

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Speaker 2: forgot to do my cash flow this month or whatever

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Speaker 2: it is. But starting with yourself can make other people

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Speaker 2: feel really comfortable about opening up, and for me, that's

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Speaker 2: a really good way to do it, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, Mace, So what if you've you've worked yourself up

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Speaker 1: to have this conversation, You've had the conversation and you're

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Speaker 1: not on the same page, so you have very different

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Speaker 1: money stories. He might really want to travel the world.

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Speaker 1: That's what he sees for his money for the next

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Speaker 1: five years. He's going to put that towards travel. Probably

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Speaker 1: not the best idea given the world.

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Speaker 2: Situation right now.

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Speaker 1: But you might really be planning on buying a home

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Speaker 1: one day. How do you figure that out if your

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Speaker 1: goals are very different.

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Speaker 2: So money goals are a reflection of your life goals.

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Speaker 2: And what you're telling me is that partner wants to

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Speaker 2: travel the world and you want to settle down and

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Speaker 2: have a home, and those two outcomes are very different.

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Speaker 2: And I think that needs to go beyond just a

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Speaker 2: money conversation. And that's why money is so hard, because

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Speaker 2: it really makes you question what you want from life.

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Speaker 2: When you start talking about budgets, it's not just the budget,

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Speaker 2: it's not just what you spend on groceries each week,

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Speaker 2: it's asking you what you want to save for and

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Speaker 2: that can feel like a really overwhelming question when you

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Speaker 2: just don't even know where you want to be the

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Speaker 2: next weekend. So when you're talking with your partner about

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Speaker 2: money stories and what you want to work towards together,

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Speaker 2: I think it's important to be on the same page

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Speaker 2: with them in general, like what do you want to

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Speaker 2: achieve in life? Because your partner might actually really want

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Speaker 2: to buy a home, and you might want to buy

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Speaker 2: a home, but they've just fallen in love with this

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Speaker 2: idea of moving overseas and working in London for a

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Speaker 2: couple of years, and that's this romanticized idea in their

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Speaker 2: head that you know, you guys could achieve together. So

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Speaker 2: understand why they want to do it. Is it that

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Speaker 2: they want to travel because they are in love with

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Speaker 2: that idea and then want to buy a house, or

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Speaker 2: is it because they want to become a digital nomad

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Speaker 2: and not actually own a home, Like what is the

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Speaker 2: meaning behind that goal and what do they actually want

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Speaker 2: to achieve and are you going to be part of that?

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Speaker 2: Is that something that you actually want to achieve? And

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Speaker 2: money goals can be hard because they do make you

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Speaker 2: question a relationship. They do make you question, well, if

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Speaker 2: he wants this and I want that, like is this

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Speaker 2: and how it's going to work out? And I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to sit here and tell you, well, you have

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Speaker 2: to get on the same page, because that's irresponsible of me.

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Speaker 2: I don't think you have to get on the same

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Speaker 2: page at all. I think you have to work out

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Speaker 2: what you truly want and find a partner that is

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Speaker 2: on the same page as you and supports that. Because

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Speaker 2: let's go back to that example you've got. If they say, yeah,

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Speaker 2: but Georgia, I really want to go overseas and just

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Speaker 2: see the world for a couple of years and then

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Speaker 2: knuckle down and save. I can understand that. Are you

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Speaker 2: in for that? Though? Are you happy to compromise your

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Speaker 2: goal of saving for a home to put it off

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Speaker 2: for a little bit longer until you can both afford it.

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Speaker 2: Every single relationship is always going to have some level

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Speaker 2: of compromising it. You can't just get exactly what you

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Speaker 2: want all the time. And I think it's what compromises

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Speaker 2: them I willing to make for my partner, and what

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Speaker 2: am I not willing to compromise on? Because if you

348
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Speaker 2: are so hard and fast about buying your first home

349
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Speaker 2: in five years time and your partner's not on board

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Speaker 2: with that, it's not going to work. But if you're like, yeah,

351
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Speaker 2: but like my goal is to buy a home and

352
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Speaker 2: then my partner really wants to travel, Oh, I feel

353
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Speaker 2: so stressed. Why don't we put that home still in

354
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Speaker 2: the plan? Why don't we just put it further down

355
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Speaker 2: the track so that we know you're still going to

356
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Speaker 2: achieve your goal, your partner still gets to achieve their goal,

357
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Speaker 2: and you get a goal on this journey together. And

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Speaker 2: that's where negotiation comes into it, and you need to

359
00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:20,920
Speaker 2: be able to talk to your partner and go, look,

360
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Speaker 2: that's not the biggest thing for me, but I can

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Speaker 2: see it's really important to you. And if you are

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Speaker 2: in a relationship, you obviously care about that person and

363
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Speaker 2: want them to achieve the things that make them happy.

364
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Speaker 2: So that's where I think you should be coming from

365
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Speaker 2: with it. But if you find that your partner and

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Speaker 2: you are coming to a complete impasse, I think that's

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Speaker 2: a deeper problem than just figuring out a budget. Let's

368
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Speaker 2: be honest, Okay, Debt VICKID, what if you've had this

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Speaker 2: conversation and you learn that your partner has crippling amounts

370
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Speaker 2: of debt. It's a topical conversation. The other week in

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Speaker 2: a Facebook group, and everybody had such colorful responses. Yeah,

372
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Speaker 2: it got really heated in there. I had to step

373
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Speaker 2: in a couple of times and be like, excuse me,

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Speaker 2: we don't talk like that in this house. Was Oh

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Speaker 2: my gosh, I should have put so many people in

376
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Speaker 2: time out. I feel like the mother hen of that

377
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Speaker 2: group sometimes. No, I think people were just getting really

378
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Speaker 2: opinionated because they wanted what was best for the original

379
00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:21,160
Speaker 2: poster without considering what the original poster actually wanted. And

380
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Speaker 2: I get it, and I do too, I get really heated.

381
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Speaker 2: Like if I found out that Georgia you were going

382
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Speaker 2: through something like I know you so much more than

383
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Speaker 2: I know your partner, who I still haven't even met,

384
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Speaker 2: so I'm obviously going to be like, oh my god,

385
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Speaker 2: get him out. I don't want to talk about that.

386
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Speaker 2: I want to look after Georgia. And that's what the

387
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Speaker 2: community was doing. And they were like, well, get rid

388
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Speaker 2: of him because the partner had debt that he hadn't disclosed.

389
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Speaker 2: In reality, this person actually really cared about their partner

390
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Speaker 2: and could see why their partner hadn't disclosed that debt

391
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Speaker 2: yet because they carried a lot of shame with it

392
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Speaker 2: and they were probably embarrassed and they hadn't brought it

393
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Speaker 2: up yet because money is so hard to talk about,

394
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Speaker 2: so it is a really hard conversation to have. I

395
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Speaker 2: think it's about a genuine hygiene check at the start

396
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Speaker 2: of a relationship. But start the conversation really softly. Don't

397
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,959
Speaker 2: ever start the conversation in an accusatory way by asking

398
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,359
Speaker 2: them a question that could cause them embarrassment. Don't start

399
00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,280
Speaker 2: it by going, hey, George, do you have personal debt?

400
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,960
Speaker 2: Because if they don't, they'll go no, And you've asked

401
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,840
Speaker 2: a closed ended question that doesn't carry on the conversation.

402
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,360
Speaker 2: But you've also asked a question and if the answer

403
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:22,560
Speaker 2: was yes, they might feel really bad about that. And

404
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,359
Speaker 2: you haven't had any money conversations with them previously. To

405
00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,320
Speaker 2: make them feel like you are comfortable having that conversation,

406
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,480
Speaker 2: to make them comfortable with that conversation so that you

407
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,560
Speaker 2: are constructive and helpful and they know they're not being judged.

408
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,159
Speaker 2: So I think it's about you showing up and proving

409
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Speaker 2: to them that you're a good person to talk about

410
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Speaker 2: money with. And if push comes to shove and you've

411
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:44,960
Speaker 2: been talking about money and dropping hints like yes, you

412
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,560
Speaker 2: can ask that question. I don't think it's a bad thing.

413
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Speaker 2: In fact, I think it's really important and really healthy

414
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Speaker 2: for you to go, Hey, I was just wondering, do

415
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,359
Speaker 2: you actually have any personal loans or personal debt or

416
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Speaker 2: anything like that. It's not a bad question to ask,

417
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Speaker 2: but I wouldn't ever start with it the initial question.

418
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Speaker 1: Flip side of that, yes, what if you're the one

419
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Speaker 1: coming to the relationship with debt? Oh?

420
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,760
Speaker 2: I did that by yeah. So that was That was

421
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,560
Speaker 2: the situation I was in. And I've spoken before about

422
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,840
Speaker 2: how when I was much younger, I had a level

423
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:15,800
Speaker 2: of personal debt and I was really embarrassed about it.

424
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,320
Speaker 2: I hated it. I felt like it was a reflection

425
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Speaker 2: of my poor money management and maybe I'm not a

426
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,240
Speaker 2: responsible person and back when I was the ripe old age,

427
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:24,800
Speaker 2: but I don't know. I was probably like twenty three,

428
00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:26,800
Speaker 2: twenty four. I felt like I felt like my life

429
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,320
Speaker 2: was getting serious right Like I had my first serious job,

430
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,679
Speaker 2: I was single, I was dating, and it felt like

431
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 2: I was, you know, maybe looking for something more serious.

432
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,160
Speaker 2: So then to feel a little bit out of control

433
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Speaker 2: and feel like I didn't have my shit together, it

434
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,080
Speaker 2: was disempowering for me. So I didn't know how to

435
00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,399
Speaker 2: have that conversation, and I didn't hide it, but I

436
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,400
Speaker 2: didn't talk about it. So it wasn't until further down

437
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,760
Speaker 2: the line when you know, push came to shove and

438
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,080
Speaker 2: we spoke about it. And I don't think at that

439
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,160
Speaker 2: time I told him how much it was. I think

440
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,119
Speaker 2: I just said, yeah, I've got a personal loan and like,

441
00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,680
Speaker 2: I pay X amount on it. But to me, that

442
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,720
Speaker 2: amount actually really significantly impacted me. So when I met

443
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,560
Speaker 2: my partner, I think I was earning maybe like sixty

444
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,399
Speaker 2: five or seventy thousand dollars a year. I definitely wasn't,

445
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 2: you know, making hundreds of thousands of dollars, And the

446
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:17,200
Speaker 2: monthly repayment of my personal loan was probably about seven

447
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,720
Speaker 2: hundred dollars, So that was a lot of money, especially

448
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,600
Speaker 2: for me who was living in a sharehouse with my

449
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 2: best friend and her brother at the time, and I

450
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,159
Speaker 2: was paying what like maybe eleven hundred dollars in rent,

451
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,399
Speaker 2: so like a lot of my a lot of my

452
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,320
Speaker 2: cash flow was going towards this, so I wasn't exactly

453
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,119
Speaker 2: swimming in it, and I felt like that was really

454
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,640
Speaker 2: restricting me. But I also didn't know how to ask

455
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,480
Speaker 2: for help with that, and I also was not making

456
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,120
Speaker 2: additional repayments. I wasn't prioritizing it. I was just kind

457
00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,200
Speaker 2: of pretending it wasn't happening, and in reality, I should

458
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,280
Speaker 2: have had conversations earlier. So if you're in that situation,

459
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:55,679
Speaker 2: I'm only sharing this because I know people are going

460
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 2: to resonate with it, and to be honest, it's really

461
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 2: helpful to know the semantics of a situation. So my

462
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,679
Speaker 2: partner didn't worry about it and it was never a

463
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,720
Speaker 2: point of conflict. But I know for a lot of

464
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,919
Speaker 2: couples it might be really incumbent on what is going on,

465
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:09,879
Speaker 2: they might go, oh, my god, you didn't disclose that.

466
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 2: I don't think it's a bad thing that you didn't

467
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,119
Speaker 2: disclose it, yet, it just means you weren't comfortable with that.

468
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 2: But if anybody ever gets up in arms with you

469
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,080
Speaker 2: about not disclosing something earlier, have I think about why

470
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,199
Speaker 2: you didn't and maybe try to clearly articulate that to

471
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 2: your partner and that will help the situation significantly because

472
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,399
Speaker 2: a lot of people go, oh, well, I don't know,

473
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 2: I don't know why I didn't tell you. Stop, take

474
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 2: a breath, sit back, and go gin know what. I

475
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,000
Speaker 2: just genuinely was really embarrassed about that. I'm sorry I

476
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 2: didn't tell you.

477
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,720
Speaker 1: Okay, So, continuing on this debt line of chat and V,

478
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,399
Speaker 1: is it ever okay for you to help your partner

479
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,639
Speaker 1: out with their debt or vice versa? Or it is okay?

480
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:50,679
Speaker 2: Of course it is. There's no such thing as right

481
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:52,880
Speaker 2: or wrong when it comes to you managing your money

482
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 2: and making decisions about your money. I'm not going to

483
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 2: judge you on the purchases you make, Georgia. I'm not

484
00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 2: going to judge you on the way that you want

485
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 2: to your funds in line with your values. If you

486
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 2: want to help your partner get out of debt sooner,

487
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,679
Speaker 2: then fantastic. But the thing I don't want you to

488
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 2: do is then have that hanging over the relationship. Like

489
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 2: if you are getting them out of debt because you

490
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,640
Speaker 2: see it as the right thing to do, and then

491
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 2: your relationship ends and you've spent five grand getting them

492
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 2: out of debt. I don't think that's a good idea.

493
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 2: I think you should be getting them out of debt

494
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 2: for the right reasons, and sometimes them just paying it

495
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 2: off over the long term and them managing it individually

496
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,359
Speaker 2: is the best thing that can happen. Like, you don't

497
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 2: have any responsibility over that. And it is a really

498
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 2: hard conversation to have because some people will be of

499
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 2: the mind of, Okay, well, now you're in your relationship,

500
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 2: it's your money. Yeah, And I just think in twenty

501
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 2: twenty one, that's not the case at all. You're right, legally,

502
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 2: what's yours is mine and all of this other stuff.

503
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,360
Speaker 2: After you've lived with someone for a period of time,

504
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 2: they do become your de facto. And we're not talking

505
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 2: legally here. We're just talking about what is fair and reasonable,

506
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 2: and only you and your partner can decide that.

507
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 1: The Sarah from our group asks what you should do

508
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 1: if one of you is earning lots of money and

509
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 1: the other one is earning not a lot of money.

510
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 1: Be that like an entry levelship?

511
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just are like focusing this around Victoria Divine's

512
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 2: personal experiences to get her entire financial history into a podcast.

513
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 2: Very coincidental, Yeah, it is very coincidental. But I genuinely

514
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 2: feel a little bit awkward when I start talking about

515
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 2: conversations about me, not because I'm ashamed of sharing them.

516
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 2: I just don't want you to think I'm self centered.

517
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 2: But I'm sharing them because I genuinely think they'll help.

518
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 2: But that was the situation I was in, as I

519
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,679
Speaker 2: mentioned before, and I think it's a fickle conversation to

520
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 2: be in because, let's be honest, let's stereotype for a

521
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 2: hot second tier. Usually it's a male earning a lot

522
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 2: more money than you do, and you are either in UNI,

523
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 2: you might be young and be doing an unpaid internship

524
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 2: or a grad role, or you know, still studying at

525
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 2: UNI and working casually. Like whatever you're doing, you often

526
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,040
Speaker 2: idolize that person in a way like Wow, this so

527
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 2: grown up, they're so put together, and you just feel

528
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 2: like you should be saying yes to the things that

529
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 2: they're saying. And if they're asking you to contribute fifty percent,

530
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 2: often I see people just pandering me like, yeah, of course,

531
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 2: I'll pay my way, like I just want to contribute,

532
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 2: and we do just want to contribute. They're not forcing

533
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 2: us to do that, and often it's just a conversation

534
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 2: of oh, we'll just split it fifty to fifty. Yeah,

535
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 2: because it sounds like the fair thing to do. But

536
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 2: I think it's a deeper conversation of, well, who's driving

537
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 2: this decision and who's actually talking this through? Because if

538
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 2: you earn one hundred thousand dollars and your partner's earning

539
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars, for example, is it fair if you

540
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 2: don't share finances to move into an apartment that the

541
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 2: partner who earns one hundred thousand dollars really wants to

542
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 2: live in, and then expect the partner who earns fifty

543
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 2: thousand dollars to contribute the same amount to when in reality,

544
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 2: you are stunting the person with the lower incomes ability

545
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 2: to save and invest and feel financially confident. I just

546
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 2: don't think that's fair. So the way that I've worked

547
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 2: with my clients to do this is by a percentage base.

548
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 2: We've worked out that, Okay, no problems like that's a

549
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 2: decision that that partner wants to make. How about I

550
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 2: pay thirty percent rent, you pay seventy percent rent because

551
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 2: you have a much higher income than me, and I

552
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 2: still have financial goals. I still have things I want

553
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 2: to achieve. I still have, you know, expenses that I

554
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 2: need to incur, and I actually need some free cash flow.

555
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 2: And I don't want to feel like I'm a slave

556
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 2: to this rental payment that comes out each and every

557
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 2: single month, because that in a relationship is going to

558
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 2: create a very high level of resentment. And no one

559
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 2: wants that in their relationship. And if your partner genuinely

560
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 2: wants to support you, they'll be all about making sure

561
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 2: things are genuinely fair. And genuinely fair does not equal

562
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty. It never does.

563
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: That's interesting. So I agree with everything you've said there

564
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: obviously not in a position to disagree.

565
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 2: You absolutely can disagree with me, because I don't want

566
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 2: you to think that what I am saying is absolutely

567
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 2: one hundred percent the right thing to do. Like I

568
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 2: might be factually correct when it comes to statistics and

569
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 2: financial information, but a lot of this, especially in today's podcast,

570
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 2: is personal opinion. And you know, I do clearly have

571
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 2: a voice, it's on this podcast, but it doesn't mean

572
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,880
Speaker 2: it's the right thing for you. I just don't want

573
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 2: people to think that my way is the only way.

574
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: Like there so there are so many options out there,

575
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 2: and I do want you to consider all of them.

576
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 2: I guess yeah.

577
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 1: What I would question V is again, she's on the

578
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 1: money is all about empowering women, upping our education.

579
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 2: So if we have.

580
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: Worked our butts off to get to this high position

581
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: and we're earning bank and now we are combining our

582
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 1: finances with a partner, is it okay to not necessarily

583
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: feel comfortable with copying seventy percent of the percentage and

584
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: they cop thirty percent? Do you know what I'm saying?

585
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, ok to feel a bit protective over you,

586
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 2: absolutely can. I'm not saying you actually need to split

587
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 2: it in a different percentage. I'm saying, if you're the

588
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 2: one that wants the more expensive rent and you're asking

589
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 2: your partner who has the lower amount of income to

590
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 2: kind of compromise and cough up more rent, you should

591
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 2: be covering that bill. But if your partner can't afford it,

592
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 2: and they say, lookay, sorry, sorry, G I can't afford

593
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 2: to pay that much rent, now it's your turn to compromise.

594
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 2: If you're not willing to compromise your money, yeah that's fine.

595
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 2: Let's get somewhere cheaper where we can afford to pay

596
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty. Let's not make that decision. Let's not

597
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 2: go out for so many dinners. We don't have to

598
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 2: split things unevenly. If that makes you feel uncomfortable, it's

599
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 2: not about that at all. It's more about, Hey, I

600
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 2: think it's really reasonable if one's making more than another

601
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 2: and wants to make a lifestyle decision that's not necessarily

602
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,360
Speaker 2: financially viable for the other person. I think it's about

603
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 2: what works for you personally. And I want to put

604
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 2: that idea on the table because too often people think

605
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 2: it's taboo to ask their partner to pay more or

606
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 2: for someone to be, you know, not splitting it evenly,

607
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 2: when in reality, it is just fair to be able

608
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 2: to financially contribute, especially in a romantic relationship where you're

609
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 2: working to towards the same goals. And if the situations

610
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 2: were reversed and I was in the position where I

611
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 2: earned more money. I love my partner. He's so great.

612
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 2: I would never want him to feel like he wasn't

613
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 2: achieving anything. I wouldn't want him to feel like the

614
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: life we lead is stopping him from saving and following

615
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 2: his dreams. And I feel like if you put yourself

616
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 2: in their shoes. It actually just makes sense. You should

617
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 2: want the best for your partner, and if you don't want,

618
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 2: you're in a relationship with that person.

619
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 1: Perfectly said there V. All right, after a very short break,

620
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: we'll be getting into what to do if your partner

621
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: is maybe taking advantage of your generosity. We'll be talking

622
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: about how to walk the line of being firm without

623
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: being naggy, and there'll be plenty more in there as well,

624
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: So please don't go anywhere, all right, back.

625
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 2: Into it, V.

626
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: My issue, Oh not my issue, just my hesitancy is.

627
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 2: A worn Yeah, that can be nags all right, good,

628
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 2: So you're a journalist, you can.

629
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: Make a word, yeah, yeah, totally journalists and training clarification.

630
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: Micromanaging is a really horrible trait, and no one wants

631
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: to be in a relationship with someone who is like

632
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: naggy or controlling or has the tendency to micromanaged. Nor

633
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: do you want to be that kind of person. So

634
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: how do you find the balance between having control of

635
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: your financial situation without coming across as a drainer?

636
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 2: Some makes sense. I think it's about having the conversation

637
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 2: really early on. Also, things like that if they're a

638
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 2: red flag to you. They're a red flag to you.

639
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 2: I think too many times we're willing to compromise on

640
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 2: red flags because you're like, oh, it'll be fine because

641
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 2: they're so nice, and we just see sunshine and roses

642
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 2: at the start of our relationship, which is exactly how

643
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 2: it's meant to work. But it's just really disappointing because

644
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 2: then we get a couple of years into relationship you're like, oh, God,

645
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 2: they are really naggy, and you just didn't notice it

646
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 2: at the start because it didn't annoy you enough. But

647
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 2: I think it's really important to have the conversation early

648
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 2: on and have it in a way that you're setting

649
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 2: expectations and that you are saying, look, this is how

650
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 2: I want to run my financial life, and this is

651
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 2: what I want to do, and definitely don't be the naggar.

652
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 2: So too often do we assume other people should be

653
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 2: doing things without looking at ourselves and what we want

654
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 2: to do. And I think that role modeling the type

655
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 2: of behavior you want in a relationship starting with you

656
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: is really important, and often your partner will reflect the

657
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 2: types of ways that you're speaking to them, and you

658
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: won't realize and then you won't like it. But it's

659
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 2: actually something that what was occurring in the relationship before.

660
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 2: And I'm not always saying, look it was you. But

661
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 2: when I look at my relationship, if I'm annoyed about something,

662
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 2: I probably set that expectation and then I kick myself

663
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 2: because I'm like, oh, I did that, that's so annoying.

664
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 2: But I think being honest about it is really important.

665
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 2: So when conversations about money with your partner do come up,

666
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 2: I think just trying to come from a place of love,

667
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 2: like I always say, and just really respecting each other

668
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 2: rather than approaching it in a passive aggressive tone is

669
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 2: really important. It's going to set the conversation up for

670
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 2: success instead of being a bitter one. And it's also

671
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 2: important to have that conversation. So don't just not have

672
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 2: it because you're uncomfortable, Because if you don't have a

673
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 2: conversation because it makes you uncomfortable, that uncomfort turns into

674
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 2: resentment and that is not what we want to a relationship.

675
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: Is a quick way to end a relationship.

676
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 2: I would have thought, Yeah, so if you don't want

677
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 2: to be in a relationship, do that.

678
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do we do if it feels like our

679
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: partner is starting to take the mickey or take advantage

680
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: a little bit. Bonnie in our group, she mentioned that

681
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,719
Speaker 1: she's pitched in a lot for her partner over the journey,

682
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: on things like rent holidays, car upgrades, that kind of thing,

683
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: and she felt that he had started to kind of

684
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: rely on that generosity. What would you do in.

685
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 2: That situation, I would be looking at the boundaries that

686
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 2: I've set and really trying to understand how we got

687
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 2: to this situation. I don't think it's about immediately confronting

688
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 2: your partner. I think it's about really looking at, well,

689
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 2: how did we get here? It's often due to you

690
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 2: being just too kind and too generous, and it's not

691
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 2: a bad thing, it's definitely not something to be embarrassed about.

692
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 2: But how did we get here? And is my partner

693
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 2: taking advantage of me on purpose? I think there's two

694
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 2: different ways that this ends up happening. One, they just

695
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 2: take it for granted because it's just been happening and

696
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 2: they're really comfortable in that relationship and they didn't mean it,

697
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 2: And if you've brought it up, they'd be horrified to

698
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 2: know that they were making you feel a little bit uncomfortable,

699
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 2: and it did revert back to, you know, being a

700
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 2: really equitable relationship very quickly. And then there's the people

701
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 2: who are genuinely taking advantage of you, and unfortunately they

702
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 2: will gaslight you and making you feel like that wasn't

703
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 2: the case and oh you did this and that and

704
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 2: the other. So I think you need to understand before

705
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 2: even having that conversation why that's happening, so you can

706
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 2: be clear on it, and then working towards resetting that

707
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 2: boundary and talking to your partner about Okay, well, here's

708
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 2: my expectations. I'm feeling really uncomfortable about this, you know,

709
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 2: putting your values on the table and say this is

710
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 2: what I value and this is what I do, and

711
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 2: sometimes just being really blunt and saying I don't want

712
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 2: to do this anymore. And I think you're well within

713
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 2: your rights to do that. You don't owe somebody a

714
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 2: free ride, You absolutely do not, and you don't want

715
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 2: to live your life feeling like somebody else is taking

716
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 2: advantage of you. You deserve, honestly, you deserve to be

717
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 2: in a relationship where that other person respects you and

718
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 2: loves you and supports you in every way. And if

719
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 2: that's not the relationship you're in, like I would be

720
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 2: questioning it.

721
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if they react badly to that, then that's

722
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: probably a pretty good sign maybe it's time to.

723
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, get on out, catch a friend, Catch a friend.

724
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: Okay, just a little trigger warning here. We're just going

725
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: to spend the last couple of minutes of the episode

726
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: talking about financial abuse. So if that is something that

727
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: is quite sensitive to you, just leave the podcast now,

728
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: because this is pretty much the end of the list. Yes,

729
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: we will be on a more serious note. If our

730
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: partner is being controlling about the way we spend our money,

731
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: what do we do?

732
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 2: I think this is a really important question to address,

733
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 2: and speaking about financial abuse is something we need to

734
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 2: do a lot more of. We've done a whole episode

735
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 2: on it before, and controlling money is definitely a form

736
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: of financial abuse. And I know we got a lot

737
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 2: of feedback from that podcast which was really positive. And

738
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 2: I also have some people who've messaged me and they're like,

739
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 2: so sorry, Victoria. I listened to every single one of

740
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 2: your podcasts, but I couldn't listen to that one because

741
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 2: it would trigger me. And I get it. It is

742
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 2: really hard to talk about because it sucks and it's

743
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,240
Speaker 2: the worst, and it happens over a long period of time,

744
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 2: and financial abuse is not what you think it is.

745
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 2: It could be in a relationship where it's romantic and

746
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 2: it's a you know, your husband and wife and it's

747
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 2: that stereotypical rom com movie financial abuse relationship. Or it

748
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 2: could happen in a sibling relationship. It could happen with parents,

749
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 2: it could happen with your grandparents, It could happen with

750
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 2: literally anybody. And financial abuse creeps up on you. It's

751
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 2: not something that just immediately starts happening. Someone isn't going

752
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 2: to just walk up to you Georgia off the street

753
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 2: and start, you know, taking all your money away from you.

754
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 2: It's this slow wearing away of your confidence and your

755
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 2: our ability to feel independent and feel like you're in

756
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 2: control and feel like you know what you're doing. Sometimes

757
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 2: it's you having access to your money completely, so you're like,

758
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 2: but it can't be financial abuse because I completely have

759
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 2: access to my money. But somebody else is controlling the

760
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 2: decisions you make around your own money. And that is

761
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 2: a form of financial abuse. And unfortunately it happens all

762
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 2: too often, and too many times people don't feel like

763
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 2: speaking up or you know, talking to somebody about it,

764
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 2: because it's not in their minds quote real abuse because

765
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,280
Speaker 2: they're like, well, he's not hitting me, he's not yelling

766
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 2: at me, he's not you know, it's just it's just

767
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 2: the way he works. Oh, he's just a bit more controlling,

768
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 2: or you know, they just want it to be like

769
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 2: this because you know, he's a really type a person

770
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 2: and I'm using him here because I guess it's really

771
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 2: stereotypical to be that. But it could be a female,

772
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,439
Speaker 2: it could be a male, it could be a them,

773
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 2: it could be anything. It's not. There's not only one

774
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,399
Speaker 2: way of this happening. But I think having this conversation

775
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,439
Speaker 2: is really important and to know that it isn't or more,

776
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 2: if you're feeling really under confident about making money decisions

777
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 2: because you're worried about what your partner is doing, or

778
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 2: if you have to call your partner before making a

779
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 2: money decision. Now I'm not saying, hey, Georgia, if you

780
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 2: have to call Harper to make a money decision, like

781
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 2: that's financial abuse, because you know what, my partner would

782
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 2: be so angry at me if I went out and

783
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 2: spent six hundred bucks on a new Apple Watch and

784
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 2: just came home with it. Because we have financial goals

785
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 2: we're working towards together, so there are like, let's be honest,

786
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 2: it's within reason. Steve's gonna be pretty mad if I

787
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,720
Speaker 2: come home with really big purchases that I haven't planned

788
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 2: for that are compromising our goals and what we're trying

789
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 2: to achieve, He's not going to be happy. That's not

790
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 2: financial abuse. But if I wanted to go out for

791
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 2: drinks after work with you know you and have a

792
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 2: wine and you know, we spend fifty bucks because we

793
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 2: got some wine and a cheese platter, and then I

794
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 2: went home and he's really angry at me about that,

795
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 2: I would be really worried about why that's the case.

796
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 2: So there's different levels of what this means. And I

797
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 2: guess that's why it's so hard to determine what is

798
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 2: and what isn't financial abuse, because our money stories are

799
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 2: all so different, and that's why you need to understand

800
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 2: your partner's money story. So I know a situation and

801
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 2: it's from our community again, and I've been talking to

802
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 2: this person in my DMS and her partner hates when

803
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 2: she spends money. It's not financial abuse. It's just because

804
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,359
Speaker 2: they grew up and they didn't have any money growing up,

805
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 2: and they just are so worried that, you know, the

806
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 2: extra groceries here and there are going to add up

807
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 2: into them having really bad financial habits, and they're just

808
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,439
Speaker 2: trying not to go down that route. It's not because

809
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 2: they're trying to control them. And that's something they need

810
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 2: to work through genuinely because it's impacting their relationship and

811
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 2: it's creating animosity and it's not a good thing. But

812
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 2: that's not financial abuse. That's just somebody who's really stressed

813
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 2: about money that needs to go through probably a fair

814
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,720
Speaker 2: bit of therapy to get through that. I think there's

815
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 2: a lot of different red flags and they are all

816
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 2: going to look different. But at the end of the day,

817
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,919
Speaker 2: if your confidence is waning, if you feel like you're

818
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 2: not in control, if you feel like you're losing your

819
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 2: independence in any way, to me, that is a big

820
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 2: red flag of financial abuse. It's not a particular monetary value.

821
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 2: It's not anything that I can articulate beyond that. And

822
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 2: if you are in that situation, you can call our

823
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 2: friends at one eight hundred respect on one eight hundred

824
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 2: seven three seven seven three two or it's twenty twenty one.

825
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 2: So they have a really great chat function on their

826
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 2: website that you can have an anonymous chat with them,

827
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 2: and we'll link all those details in the show notes.

828
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 2: But I think it's really important to remember that this

829
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 2: can actually impact anyone and for sure, and remember the

830
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 2: money diary on the financial abuse episode that was actually

831
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 2: between a mum and daughter. Wasn't between a husband and wife,

832
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 2: or a boyfriend a girlfriend, or a girlfriend and girlfriend.

833
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 2: It was actually between a mum and daughter where the

834
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 2: mum was the financial abuser and she's had to go

835
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 2: through years and years and years of therapy and she

836
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 2: wasn't in a situation where money wasn't there. It was

837
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 2: actually there was so much money there and there was

838
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 2: a lot of control and your expectation around that money.

839
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 2: So it goes both ways. It's not about not having

840
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 2: enough sometime. So every relationship is different, and when it

841
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 2: comes to financial abuse, it might just not be that

842
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 2: stereotypical financial abuse relationship you might expect it to be.

843
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 2: So I reckon that's a pretty good place to leave

844
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 2: this episode.

845
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 1: Georgia King absolutely V So I guess the main takeaway

846
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 1: from today's show is keep the communication line open as

847
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: open as you can. There's no one size fits all

848
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 1: kind of way of doing things, and just make sure

849
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:26,280
Speaker 1: you look after yourself.

850
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And if you've got any questions, you can

851
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 2: always reach out to the Shees on the Money team

852
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 2: and we will always, always, always direct you in the

853
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 2: right way to get you the help that you need,

854
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 2: because sometimes it is really overwhelming to call when a

855
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 2: hundred to respect and you just want to ask a friend,

856
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: my friends, we are that person.

857
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 1: Absolutely, let's leave it there.

858
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 2: So just before we head off, we'd like to acknowledge

859
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,800
Speaker 2: and pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and Torris Street Island

860
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 2: of People's. They're the traditional custodians of the lands, the

861
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 2: waterways and the skies all across Australia. We thank you

862
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 2: for sharing and for caring for the land on which

863
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 2: we are able to learn. We pay our respects to

864
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 2: elders past and present, and we show our friendship and

865
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 2: our kindness.

866
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: And remember guys that the advice shared on She's on

867
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: the Money is general in nature and does not consider

868
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: your individual circumstances. She's on the Money exists purely for

869
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make

870
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: an investment or a financial decision. And we promise. Victoria

871
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,760
Speaker 1: Divine is an authorized representative of Australia Pacific Funds Management

872
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: Proprietary Limited ABN three four one three two four six

873
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: three two five seven AFSL three three nine one five one.

874
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 2: Oh you got through all of that's done yourself. Fancy gene.

875
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 2: I will see you next week

876
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: For it we will deep die bye guys