WEBVTT - The Clutter Family Murders 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.000 In nineteen fifty eight, a writer by the name of 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:06.640 Truman Capote heard of him had the idea to write 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:10.840 what he called the first non fiction novel, huh, in 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:13.000 which he wanted to take on a real life event 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:15.880 and turn it into a story. He just couldn't find 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.119 the right subjects. That was until one day when he 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:23.200 opened the newspaper in nineteen fifty nine and saw in 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:26.240 the New York Times that a farmer and his entire 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:31.200 family from Kansas had been murdered in their home with 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:37.280 no suspects. So Capodi and his good friend Harpily went 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:41.280 out to Kansas and began to investigate and deep dive 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:45.960 into this family's lives and their tragic deaths. He would 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:49.320 be there for the capture of their killers and many 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:53.159 many years after, and this story would go on to 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:58.480 become the one and only novel in killing Talking in 0:00:58.840 --> 0:00:59.760 cold blood. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.000 I love this book so much. 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:05.520 Well, today we're talking about this story behind the book, 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:09.679 the Clutter family murders. Oh wow, Hey, can I start 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:11.760 this today's episode with the cheers? Of course you're too 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:13.640 far away, but do just do this ready? Two? 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:15.160 Three cheers? 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:19.080 Welcome to another crime podcast. I'm Georgia Love. 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:20.080 I'm Sammy Peterson. 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:23.480 I'm a journalist. I am not And if you just 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:26.280 want to hear the story about the Clutter family murders today, 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:29.560 you can skip ahead through our banter or past our banter. 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:33.319 The time coat is in the show notes. But thank 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:35.080 you so much. I've been doing it for a year now. 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:37.759 Yeah, you're getting real good sleep. 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:40.120 And I have missed some episodes, but you have not. 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:45.800 You've been on every episode, every episode. No, we did 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:46.840 one in Adelaide. 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:48.200 Oh that's true. 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:50.200 Okay, you've spoken about Himo because you're obsessed with. 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:52.200 Her, but he was on FaceTime the whole time. That's true, 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:55.400 chatting to me. He's having a drink of water really 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:57.120 loudly in the background, are saving Peterson? 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:58.880 Do you notice anything different about me today? 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:02.760 Yes? I you aren't wearing shoes. Who are you to mintion? 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:08.680 You're wearing You're wearing a beautiful miss Piggy T shirt today. 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:13.399 So, dear listeners, if you were listening, I should say, 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.920 when you were listening to our one year anniversary episode 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:20.480 with special guests Oliver Clark and Myth Warhurst, you would 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:22.320 have heard me say I had ordered a special T 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:25.560 shirt to wear on that episode because it cast your 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:27.880 mind's back to when we had myth Warhurst on her 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:30.800 first Thursday Trade episode. We was speaking about miss Goddamn 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:34.840 Piggy and Mis said she was her icon growing up, yes, 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:37.400 and still is to this day now. The T shirt 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:39.040 did not arrive in time for me to wear on 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:43.480 that episode, but I'm wearing it today because if you 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:45.400 think I'm not just gonna wear it in everyday life, 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:48.320 you don't know me at all. It is a picture 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:51.560 of Miss Piggy in an orange sequin dress with an 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:55.280 orange for the bower, with the words in the font 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:58.680 of one T swift new album, The Life of a 0:02:58.720 --> 0:02:59.240 show Girl. 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:00.560 It's so good. 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:02.239 I'm showing the camera for YouTube. 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:04.080 It's just great. 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:07.200 And she actually her name is Kitty. She made her 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:08.760 money being pretty and witty. 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:11.359 That's right, but it is such a oh it's. 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:17.880 Her name is Piggy. She made him money, pretty and weirty. 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:19.920 I love this T shirt so much and I just 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:22.000 wore it to work today and people asked me what 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:23.640 it was for, and I was like, I don't understand 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.040 the question. I'm wearing today. 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:27.960 Well, I've got a beautiful Miss Piggy T shirt. Coming 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:31.359 as well. Don't tell me wait, okay, it's going to 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:32.720 be good. I'll tell you that much is going to 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:33.320 be very good. 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.160 We just each order ourselves T shirt. 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:38.480 I saw it a few weeks ago and I just 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:40.440 ordered it. But it's coming from the United States of 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:44.880 a Marriage America, so it's it's it's coming, but it's 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:46.200 going to be a little bit late. But as soon 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:48.840 as as soon as it arrives I'll be wearing my 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:50.440 piggy T shirt as well. 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:53.560 Sammy, let's stop talking about this because something much more 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:59.160 important needs to be spoken about your comedy special. Why 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:03.320 the long face is out for everyone to what it's out. 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:05.480 There's a link there. So I had a real disappointing 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:08.720 day the first day that it came out. Sadly it 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:11.920 was posted without an ending. It cut. 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:15.320 I think it's Famously Stories, So your comedy special is 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:18.320 a story. It's not just a series of jokes. Famously 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.400 stories don't need the last twenty minutes to make sense. 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:22.720 So I don't know what you're upseent. 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:25.760 Yeah, well, so my story builds up to a point 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:28.800 and it cuts me off mid sentence like it was 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:31.839 an episode of The Sopranos. The final episode of Sopranos 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:32.919 and so. 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:35.920 And not even just like the last moment, like twenty minutes. 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:38.919 Yeah, like it cut twenty minutes out, and so the 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:40.840 comedy club who uploaded all like, oh my god, I'm 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:44.120 so sorry, and it was the last twenty minutes. So 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.760 five over five thousand people watch it without the ending, 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:49.520 and so they just think that I probably just had 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:51.440 a special that just ended, Sam in the middle of 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:52.240 a sentence. 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:54.120 Can I say to you? And I was actually talking 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:56.120 to my friend about this today when I told her 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:58.720 what had happened, huh, and she said the same thing 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:03.400 I said to you. And I feel overwhelmingly you had 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:07.920 five thousand people watch your comedy special on the night 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:11.000 it was released. I know that was a shitty night 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:14.560 because it went wrong and that ending wasn't there. Can 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:17.160 we just for the rest of forever make sure we 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:21.800 focus on that amazing positive five thousand people watched your 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:23.799 comedy special the very night it was released. 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:26.560 That is a massive, it's amazing. But they did not 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:29.159 have an envy. So I'm going to go to every 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:31.840 this is my plane, Okay, yeah, I'm going to go 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:36.760 to all of the people's houses that's watched that episode. Yes, well, 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:38.400 that that's kind of an episode I watched. 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:39.680 Yeah, first part of it. 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:41.640 Wats the first part of the special, Yes, and I'm 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:44.839 going to perform from the moment it cuts off to 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:45.320 the end. 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:47.279 Oh my god, that's a great idea. 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:51.840 So five thousand. So how many is that? If I do? 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:52.640 No? 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:55.440 No, but if I do for the next year, yep, 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:57.440 how many? G love, I know you're very good at math, 0:05:57.520 --> 0:05:59.480 yes I am. How many would I have to do 0:05:59.520 --> 0:05:59.920 a day? 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:05.280 I think three three a day to make five thousand 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:06.880 out of three hundred and sixty. 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:08.880 Five And you're confident about that, you. 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:10.800 Look, because it's not a leap yeer. So there are 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.960 three hundred and sixty five days, okay. 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:16.239 The three hundred and fifth sixty five days times three 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.600 is five thousand. Okay, great, I'm not going to check this, 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:20.239 but that's. 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:22.719 Not that much because twenty minutes times three is obviously 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:23.039 an hour. 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:25.120 I'm not stupid. Yea one hour a day. 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:29.520 It's for four years. Yeah, you so not the calendar 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:31.760 year for the next three hundred and sixty five days. 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:33.960 Yes, And it just depends where you're living as well. 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:37.080 So I'll have to account travel and everything into that, 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:39.880 but I will do it. And so if this is 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:43.679 my this is my message to you. If you watch that, yes, 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:47.120 and you didn't see the last twenty minutes, email me 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:49.120 your address, no, just email me. 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:51.680 Yes, oh okay, and then you'll find you address it. 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:54.600 I'll find you because you're not a journal, must be your. 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:57.960 Hack, and I will find you. I know your IP address. 0:06:57.960 --> 0:06:59.840 I will find you. It was the last thing I do, 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.200 and I will do twenty minutes of comedy at you 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:04.599 from the moment it stopped. Yeah, and I'll get. 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:06.960 Really and you'll you'll know exactly exactly you'll pick up 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:07.720 your centered. 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:09.480 And that that's so well honed as well to it. 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:11.600 And the thing is because that was just this week 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:13.400 that that happened. So for the people who get their 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:16.880 last three performances on the three hundred and sixty fifth day, yes, 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:18.800 that'll remember where it left. 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:22.440 Oh absolutely, it's that. Yeah, you remember that stuff. So yeah, 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:26.280 So my comedy special is out now. I have put 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:28.200 it on my social media, so if you want to 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:31.560 find it, it's right media, yep. But it it's at 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:33.120 Sammy Peterson Unofficial. 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:35.840 Have I told you that when you first changed your 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:38.160 handle to that, I thought it was Sammy Peterson official, 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:39.360 and I was like, oh my god, good for your 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:41.080 big dog. You've got some confidence about you. 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:44.640 Oh no, because it's unofficial. Yeah no, no, no, you've changed, man. 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:46.920 But I kind of like, yeah, yeah, no, I've got 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:49.400 a I just thought Sam Peter's not official was fun. 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:51.440 But then most people who write it right official. 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:53.920 So because everyone knows you have got down boss lady. 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:55.880 Yeah, I'm a boss lady. I'm absolute boss lady. 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:58.520 Hey talking about boss ladies, well, hang on, first of all, 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:00.880 have to say that huge congratulations and I'm really plad 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:04.320 thank you so much. I'm talking about boss ladies. Do 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:06.360 you know good Friend sticker is by Claws. 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:08.800 Yes, I Love one of our beautiful. 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:12.400 Listeners who had sent us stickers before. Well, there is 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.920 a little envelope here that says to Sammy and g Love, maybe. 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:23.160 Cover up the address on YouTube? Oh yeah, yes, yes, 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:24.120 by Claude. 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:25.160 Do you want me to do that again? 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:26.280 That's fine? 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:32.640 Blur And it actually says on the back for the 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:34.679 stickers by Court, should I read out her address? 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:34.920 Yes? 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:42.000 Okay, So we're going to do a live unboxing, which 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:44.280 will be funny if it's just like a I know 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:46.800 like a love letter. Actually, that would be great. I 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:48.200 can see cats, I can see car. 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:50.839 You didn't get cats last time? 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:55.400 Yours never had a jolts god, wait god, all right, 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:57.080 there's a little handwritten note in it as well. 0:08:57.200 --> 0:08:59.520 Oh my god, clave. 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:03.320 You skip to the band you wouldn't get all right, 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:06.559 I'm gonna oh my god, I'm gonna read the night first. 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:08.959 Dear Sammy and Georgia, you guys are the best. Still 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:12.040 loving your podcast obviously, and I also agree with your 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:14.240 many other listeners that the long episodes are great and 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:18.880 definitely worth it. I've recently released a couple of new 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:20.800 sticker sheet designs and I thought you both would like 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:23.920 to share them. Thanks again for always providing the best 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:26.240 stories of forever love your pod and happy one year. 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:28.640 Oh my god, I love you. P has never stopped 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:31.800 the musical references. Gee, I love them and I never 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:33.400 say no to a chance to sing along with you. 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:36.160 Lots of love, Claudia. Okay, which one should I go 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:37.280 with today? Give me musical? 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:37.600 Please? 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:39.160 Oh no, I'll give it. I saw cats. 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:41.199 Any questions yep? 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:44.880 Sorry, Well there's a sticker sheet of cats in front 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:47.120 of me, and I saw the musical Cats the other night. 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:48.280 So I'm going to sing. 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:52.959 This when you're a jet you're j come on, I'm going. 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:59.040 To sing this well, never as a cat, the cat 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:04.280 as clever as magical, mister Mastore, p please. And also 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:08.800 this one, No, I don't remember rum Tum Tuger's song. 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:10.640 I just remember that the guy who played it was hot. 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:12.880 Well you've done a good job, thank. 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:14.640 You very much. And I know this one as well, 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:23.480 jelquos in and Jelicus do and jelicusmen and Jelicus So 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:26.480 I don't know the words to that either, but when 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:29.520 when Powdery is being a pest I sing to her 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:31.040 that she's being a pestickle cat. 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:33.359 That's good. 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:36.280 Oh my god, O can we have beautiful stickers? And 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:40.480 there's dog ones as well. Okay, so I'm going to 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:43.040 show the YouTube. This is the sticker sheet of cats. 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:46.240 This one as long as the bubblebee, like there's one 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:47.319 catist just a bubble bee. 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:47.720 Hilarious. 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:50.080 That one looks like poetry. And this one is hilarious 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:55.000 because it doesn't ever know and it's just like, oh. 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:55.199 So do you make the best stickers? 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:58.280 And this is the dogs ones And there's not really 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:02.240 a dibber on there, there's a Dalmatian and can you 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.760 please tell everyone the story about So. 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:06.360 There's a there's a dalmation on my street the other 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:08.839 day that didn't have a collar on. We named him 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:12.760 Spot and uh and it was like that of Krouella. 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:16.080 And we're walking walking home and the dog was playing 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:19.240 with Digs. Little puppy dalmatian walked all the way home 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:20.959 with us and then came in the gate and I 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:23.120 was playing with Digs in here and then the owner 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:24.080 called out to it. 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:28.480 Damn it, I saw you were getting. 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.079 He was a baby brother that he's always wanted. 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:34.040 Well, now you can have a picture of the baby 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:37.640 brother Spot. I know. There's also a picture of a 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:42.400 grab A Corgy on there and they are famously that's 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:44.280 the dog I want to get. Get a dog and 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:46.319 I want to name her Chappelle Corgy. 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:48.880 That's good. I love that. I love that. I really 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:51.040 need to do it, yea. And it just. 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:54.640 Because I'm not wearing shoes, you think my foot. 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:57.920 Is very rude. But we are going to be doing 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:03.360 an episode today that we did on a book called 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:04.040 He Read. 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:07.000 She Read a podcast called God But We We. 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:09.680 We We go Oh God. But went into a book 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:13.360 dubb into a book called In Cold Blood. It was 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:16.680 really good and we might be book talk stars. Is 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:19.199 that a thing? There's an ex bachelor that is a 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:19.920 book talk star. 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:23.160 Yes, he's currently on the Australian season of He. 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:27.120 Okay he was that. He became a book talk star 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:29.240 and maybe that's what we need to do because now 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:30.679 he's got a podcast. 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:32.400 We already have a book, I know. 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:35.600 But if we go big on book talk talk, we 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:38.720 can get another book, can get another podcast podcast. No, 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:39.600 you're right, we don't have time. 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:41.760 We could get sent free books. 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:42.959 Yes, how good would that be? 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:47.120 Well maybe I should leave the address on the YouTube 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:48.640 and people can send us books. 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.520 Okay, now leave the address up. It's gonna be for me, 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:55.360 but let's do it. I love book but we did 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:56.840 go on that podcast and it was fantastic. 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.960 Yeah, so it's weird. Two Australian authors named Jp Pom 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:05.559 and Sarah Bailey. They both written thriller books and lots 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:08.320 of them and numerous that I have read before before 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:10.800 we were asked to go the last few years. They're 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.760 both fantastic. JP wasn't there, so she invited us on 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:15.600 as guests because we're famous book Tooks. 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.079 Oh that's right. We are famous book. 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:22.000 Talk star and we spoke about the book in cold Blood. Now, 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.400 I've said on the podcast many times before, I think 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:26.840 even just in the very last episode with John Ronson 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:31.040 on Thursday, that this was this was always my favorite 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:35.200 book until I read Boy Swallows Universe by but it 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:36.440 is a very close second. 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:36.640 Now. 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:40.840 I love obviously the true crime element of it, but 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:43.280 the fact that it is. Like I said in the intro, 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:46.560 it's kind of touted as the first non fiction novel, 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:49.960 so it is a nonfiction story. It's about a true crime, 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:52.920 but Truman Capodi has written it into a novel, so 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:54.640 it reads like a fiction book. 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:55.319 It's not. 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:59.439 And we will talk a bit about that part of 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:01.640 it and the true compoti part in this episode, but 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:04.240 it's a true crime podcast, so we're mostly talking about 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:06.800 the crime itself. If you want to hear Sammy and 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:08.720 I go on a deep dive into our thoughts about 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.440 the book and more about Trim and Campodi himself and 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:14.319 what we think about how he wrote that, please listen 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:16.439 to our episode. If he read, she read you simply 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:20.440 mast and do you know much about the crime. I mean, 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:24.720 obviously you've read the book as well. Yeah, but a 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.200 lot of people talk about the book and not actually 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:30.880 the Clutter Family murder where it became one of the 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:32.640 most famous murders of. 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:34.640 All time because of the book. 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:37.640 So do you know a lot of details about it? 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:39.920 Not really other than what's in the book. I mean, 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:41.640 but I kind of got I guess I got a 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:45.040 little bit sidetracked by Trim and Capodi and his It's 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:45.920 a lot about. 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:49.080 The town and characters and stuff as well, not just the. 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:50.800 Crime, yes, and the killers as well. 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:55.240 Yeah, is there anything else you'd like to talk about 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:58.120 before we delve into the Clutter Family murd. 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.440 Well, you're away this weekend, so I'm going to watch 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:05.360 Heated Rivalry? Are you really I'm gonna watch it? 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:07.440 It's really funny that you said because I'm away, Like, 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.520 because you know, if I was here and I knew 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:11.680 you were watching, you come. 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:16.680 Watching shouting at the TV. I'm a part of it. 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:19.800 I imagine you're like, it's like people watching sports with people, 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:22.640 like you're going to be shouting at the TV. Yes, 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:25.280 And you're going to a music first all I've always 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.440 wanted to go to called festival. 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:31.880 So it's actually food and wine festival that has musical 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:36.680 acts there as well, Jess Melboy, Grinspoon. 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:37.840 British Gritty Spoon. 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:43.520 Greenspoon, I'm going to Grimspoon and three small time comedians 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:45.400 you might have heard of will also be performing there 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:50.080 tomorrow named Luke McGregor, Nick Cody and Claire Hooper. 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:52.200 That's a great line up. It's going to be fantastic, 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.280 really fun. Well you're there, I'm going to be watching 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:56.080 Heated Rivalry. 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:58.760 You know what I mean this with all sincerity. I'm 0:15:58.880 --> 0:15:59.640 jealous of that. 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:01.640 Well, jealous of you going to festival. 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:02.760 They come to Festivale. 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:04.480 You should have asked me a few weeks. 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:08.600 Ago to be able to watch Heated Rivalry for the 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:10.840 first time again. Yeah, something I'll never be able to 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:11.360 do enough for. 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:13.960 It is just it is. 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:17.120 The best show ever written. I cannot stop thinking about it. 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:19.480 Deeply in love with Hudson Williams. 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:21.480 Which one's that one? We'll find out. Don't worry about it. 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:22.360 We'll find out how you won't. 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:24.000 Because it's the name of the actor. Okay, but we 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.160 could talk about it. There's gonna be so much to 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:27.680 talk about on episode. 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:30.800 Let's do this week's episode then, la Kay. 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:35.880 Last the Clutter family lived in Holcombe, Kansas. 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:36.760 I know this. 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:44.400 That after everything, Okay. The father, Herbert Clutter, was born 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:48.800 in nineteen eleven, and his whole life was farming. He 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:52.480 was an agricultural agent for the county and he went 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:56.000 around teaching farmers as well as owning his own farm himself. 0:16:57.720 --> 0:16:59.800 And sorry and his father had done that as well. 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:03.720 So farmer from way back. He started his own herbs, 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:07.320 started his own farm in the nineteen forties named River 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:12.119 Valley Farm, also in Holcombe, Kansas. He was absolutely beloved 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:14.760 in the community. Labeled and I feel like you'll be 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:17.399 able to guess the labels. You wouldn't say like beloved 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:19.400 farmer guy? What did people say? 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:24.399 He was wholesome? Yeah, and lovely and beautiful. 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:26.960 Assault of the earth asault of the Earth's successful and 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:30.119 stood up for the little guy like he wasn't just 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:31.560 for himself and his family. 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:37.159 His farmer, big farmer. That's clever, all right, big farmer. 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:40.080 Yeah, yeah, I like that's very clever. But big farmer 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:41.760 famously doesn't stick up with the little guy. 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:44.560 I disagree. If you'd like to sponsor us big farmer, 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:53.600 very aroviser, I don't think we should ask whatever. 0:17:55.359 --> 0:18:00.440 Yeah, okay, so herbs farm was thriving, but he also 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:04.199 then fiercely advocated for smaller farms as well. He was 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:07.199 the president of the National Association of Wheat Growers. 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:10.240 He's a big farmer, He's a big, big farm. 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.560 His whole family was very much the picture of the 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:17.120 nineteen fifties perfect American family the earth. 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:18.920 Yeah. 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:20.399 I was about to say, you got it, but I 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:22.280 did tell you, Tom, this is gonna be. 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:24.119 A long episode. Off we get like this. 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:26.159 There's a real vibe in here today. I like it. 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:27.960 It's fun. I'm having fun it because I've got my 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:32.720 shoes off and a bigger tim mentioned an we singing 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:33.920 tim mention some quickly. 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:34.080 At the end. 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:36.159 Okay, I'll rushed through. 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:40.000 Give you a treat to the end to get her through. Carrot, 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:43.280 the danglous carrot whole tom So. 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:48.440 President Eisenhower actually appointed herb Clutter to the Federal Farm 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:50.520 Credit Board in nineteen fifty three. 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:53.920 When you thought a farmer couldn't get bigger, bigger farmer, farmer. 0:18:54.760 --> 0:19:00.000 He was active in politics, both local and national. In contrast, however, 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:04.080 his wife Bonnie was very introverted. Yes, she was salt 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:06.240 of the earth. And lovely as well. But she wasn't 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:09.600 this in it out about in politics? Yeah, the president 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:10.040 knows him. 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:11.160 Not life of a show girl. 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:14.840 No no, no, no, more a Kermit than a miss Piggy. 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:20.280 She had severe depression and anxiety. Oh that's sorry, Coermet Yeah, 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:20.920 maybe more an. 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:29.720 Eel, Yeah, memorn Eel, the other famous muppet. Yes, the 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:34.199 other famous muppet. Oh yeah, all right, we'll take a 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:37.400 quick break. 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:45.600 I just really wasn't expected to say that was quite fun. 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:48.120 I just did a spit take. 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:52.040 But it's not your nose. Yeah, it's disgusting. That's the 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:55.399 probably the worst thing has ever happened on the book. 0:19:56.840 --> 0:20:02.840 She wears a pig t shirt or I think I 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:08.359 can do this, So please don't make a clip of that. 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:16.639 No, I won't make a clipper that because my face gone, Oh. 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:19.040 Oh my god, that's disgusting. Oh my god. Okay, I can't. 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:26.720 We're talking about Bondie Clott can't. All right, So Bondie 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:29.919 Cloude had actually been hospitalized several times for months at 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:34.320 a time with depression and anxiety. She also had nervous 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:38.240 muscle spasms. She slept a lot, but she was really 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:40.600 determined to get better. And to be well and present 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:46.160 for her family when she was feeling good and more 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:48.560 active in the community. She was an active member of 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:52.560 the Methodist Church. She taught Sunday school, and she was 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:55.840 part of the Women's Society of Christian Service. She was 0:20:55.920 --> 0:21:00.840 a good, wholesome sault of the American mother. She and 0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:04.280 Herb were very much in love and Herb really tried 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:06.880 very hard to help and stand by her. So there 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:09.320 was not I think I feel like often here, especially 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:13.680 in you know the olden days, when someone has had 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:19.440 postnatal depression or depressive episodes, it kind of is spoken about, 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:22.000 as you know, and then the husband's like, oh, she's 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:23.560 just sleeping all day. 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:23.440 Yeah. 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:23.920 Yeah. 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:26.200 This was very much not the case with this family. 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:29.040 He understood that she was unwell and was was would 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:30.879 really stand by her and was trying to do everything 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:31.320 to help her. 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:33.840 So sad, that's heartbreaking. 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:40.880 Herb and Bonnie had four children, had two older daughters, 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:44.080 Evianna and Beverly, who were adults at the time and 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:45.120 living out of the home. 0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:45.800 Yes, yep. 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:49.280 And at the time of the incident we are discussing, 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:52.480 they had a sixteen year old daughter, Nancy and fifteen 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:55.120 year old son Kenyan who were living at home with them. 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:56.240 It's such an interesting. 0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:01.600 Again before or since, if we have any listeners called Kenyon, 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:04.040 please write in. Yeah, I didn't think we'd have a 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:04.879 listener called Bought. 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:06.919 I love Bort's voices. 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:12.880 So they now I won't really bring I'll mention Evianna 0:22:12.920 --> 0:22:15.159 and Beverly again at the end, but they don't come 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:17.280 up through the story. They weren't living at home at 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:17.880 the time. 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:20.320 And they weren't really involved in the book, were they, like. 0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:23.119 And that's okay? Well, yeah, yeah, That's what I'll talk 0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:25.000 about at the end, the fact that they weren't involved. 0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:28.800 So when I'm talking about the family and their clutter 0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:32.080 family and the whole family, I am just talking about Nancy, Kenyon, 0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:36.639 Bonnie and herb Yes, yep, I'm not discounting Evianna and Beverly. 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:41.359 They weren't involved in the z y yep and they were. 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:45.600 Nancy and Kenyon were the classic all American teens of 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:50.240 the nineteen fifties like a Picture Greece the musical. They 0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:53.560 were younger kids, sorry, the younger kids were also very 0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:57.920 heavily involved in the Methodist Church and youth services. Nancy 0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:03.320 was popular pretty great a student, very classic. She had 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:05.119 a boyfriend named Bobby Rupp. 0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:09.360 Such an American name, It's like I feel. 0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:10.359 Like that's a character from Greece. 0:23:10.440 --> 0:23:11.480 Yes, absolutely, Bobby. 0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:15.560 She was a member of the mixed chorus. She received 0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:20.119 the Good Citizen Award at school just days before her death. 0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:24.119 Spoiler alert, I'm sorry she does. Kenyan, the fifteen year 0:23:24.160 --> 0:23:27.480 old son, was also really popular, but much more quiet 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:30.520 and reserve. Again. He was the Kermit to Nancy's miss 0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:34.359 Piggy beautifully poor, thank you. He had good grains. He 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:39.000 was a star athlete, especially in basketball and track teams. 0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:42.359 They were a really, really close family who did a 0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:47.040 lot for the community. Now I'm going to tell you 0:23:47.119 --> 0:23:53.680 about two other people. A man named Richard known as 0:23:53.720 --> 0:24:00.320 Dick Hickock, was in Kansas State Penitentiary for robbery. His 0:24:00.440 --> 0:24:04.800 cell mate was a man named Floyd Wells, and as 0:24:04.840 --> 0:24:06.919 they got chatting in their cell, passing the time on 0:24:06.960 --> 0:24:10.960 each of their sentences, Floyd Wells told Dick Hickock that 0:24:11.240 --> 0:24:13.480 he went when he got out, he was going to 0:24:13.560 --> 0:24:16.399 rob an old farmhouse that he used to work at. 0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:21.480 The farmhouse was called River Valley Farm in Holcombe, Kansas. 0:24:21.960 --> 0:24:25.080 Floyd had worked there in the late forties and had 0:24:25.119 --> 0:24:29.000 worked for herb Clutter, and he told his cell mate 0:24:29.080 --> 0:24:32.160 Dick Hickock that he knew that herb Clutter kept ten 0:24:32.240 --> 0:24:36.440 thousand dollars cash in a safe in the house. Now 0:24:36.440 --> 0:24:38.679 I didn't actually do I want to quickly look that up. 0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:42.200 What that would be worth in today's Yeah, it would be, 0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:44.200 I mean quite significant of its. 0:24:44.119 --> 0:24:48.000 Absolutely, Yeah, it's it's just interesting that he knew that 0:24:48.240 --> 0:24:50.280 from working on the farm. It just seems like such 0:24:50.320 --> 0:24:52.479 an interesting bit of information, doesn't it. 0:24:52.600 --> 0:24:54.919 I will will very much get into that. 0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:56.880 Yeah, yeah, Okay, not. 0:24:56.880 --> 0:25:01.879 Ten thousand dollars in nineteen forty This would be worse 0:25:04.080 --> 0:25:08.320 between three hundred and four hundred and fifty thousand dollars today. Okay, 0:25:08.359 --> 0:25:09.400 So that's all. 0:25:09.920 --> 0:25:11.679 So much money, just keeping you safe. 0:25:12.000 --> 0:25:16.600 Yes, So as Floyd was talking about this, Dick thought, well, 0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:18.800 I have less time on my sentence than Floyd does. 0:25:19.480 --> 0:25:21.840 I'm going to get it. I'm going to do that 0:25:21.880 --> 0:25:25.040 plan actually and break out and get not breakout, he 0:25:25.119 --> 0:25:26.880 was going to be released, but he's going to break 0:25:26.880 --> 0:25:29.960 into the house and get money. Now, let's talk about 0:25:30.040 --> 0:25:35.359 Dick Hiccock. Growing up, he was athletic smart and cool 0:25:35.560 --> 0:25:39.399 and a good looking guy. He didn't get a scholarship 0:25:39.440 --> 0:25:42.480 to college that he thought he would, and his family 0:25:42.480 --> 0:25:44.440 couldn't afford to send him to college, so he went 0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:47.160 straight into the workforce, doing odd jobs to make a dime. 0:25:47.720 --> 0:25:50.320 Now he was close with his family. His family was, 0:25:50.960 --> 0:25:53.560 you know, by all means, a kind of lower middle 0:25:53.560 --> 0:25:56.080 class family or even middle class family. They didn't have 0:25:56.160 --> 0:25:58.760 enough money to pay for his college, but they were, 0:25:58.880 --> 0:26:04.400 you know, a close family, tight knit. By age twenty eight, 0:26:04.760 --> 0:26:07.359 Dick Hickock had been married and divorced twice. 0:26:07.480 --> 0:26:09.600 Oh wow, okay by twenty eight did you say. 0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:14.080 By twenty eight? Wow? Yes, he would do anything to 0:26:14.240 --> 0:26:20.560 avoid working too hard. That probably counts for the marriages, sure, yeah, 0:26:20.720 --> 0:26:24.640 as well as in actual work. He was really spoken 0:26:24.680 --> 0:26:27.760 about as just a really lazy guy, right, Okay, He 0:26:27.760 --> 0:26:29.679 didn't want to have to do hard work, you know, 0:26:29.800 --> 0:26:31.920 even he didn't get the scholarship, so we went, okay, 0:26:31.920 --> 0:26:33.439 I just won't go to college or he didn't then 0:26:33.440 --> 0:26:35.040 you know, try to get a job to be able 0:26:35.040 --> 0:26:37.480 to put himself through college later. And he didn't like 0:26:37.560 --> 0:26:40.280 working because he wasn't doing jobs that he wanted to do, 0:26:40.560 --> 0:26:43.080 so he would get around doing a lot of robberies, 0:26:43.359 --> 0:26:47.080 stealing cars, stealing number plates, and he ended up in 0:26:47.119 --> 0:26:48.840 and out of jail quite a few times. 0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:49.560 Wow. 0:26:50.480 --> 0:26:52.960 He'd also been in a car accident when he was younger. 0:26:53.040 --> 0:26:57.240 I didn't find that age. He was in the car 0:26:57.280 --> 0:27:00.480 accident and it left him with scars on his face, 0:27:00.880 --> 0:27:05.480 which he hated. He really cherished his good looks growing up. 0:27:06.119 --> 0:27:08.720 And he was not even self conscious. He was angry. 0:27:09.280 --> 0:27:11.240 He was not a good guy where we don't have 0:27:11.280 --> 0:27:15.439 to feel sorry. He would say that his face had 0:27:15.440 --> 0:27:17.479 been ruined, and he was really angry about that. He 0:27:17.600 --> 0:27:22.840 carried a real grudge. Agay, a new cell mate moved 0:27:23.040 --> 0:27:26.200 in next door to like you know, in the cell 0:27:26.280 --> 0:27:29.520 next to Perry and sorry to Floyd and Dick. And 0:27:29.640 --> 0:27:34.960 this man's name was Perry Smith. Now conversely to Dick. 0:27:35.480 --> 0:27:37.800 He grew up in a very poor and a very 0:27:37.880 --> 0:27:42.760 violent family. His parents were both severe alcoholics, and his 0:27:42.800 --> 0:27:48.639 parents and siblings had mental health issues. He didn't finish school, 0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:51.840 and he didn't have many skills to maintain a job, 0:27:52.160 --> 0:27:54.679 certainly not a good job. It was a very different 0:27:54.760 --> 0:27:58.400 upbringing to Di's. He'd never had a long term girlfriend, 0:27:58.680 --> 0:28:02.280 he didn't have the love and support of his family, 0:28:02.440 --> 0:28:05.879 as Dick had. He joined the army in nineteen forty 0:28:05.920 --> 0:28:09.800 eight and was honorably discharged in nineteen fifty two, but 0:28:09.880 --> 0:28:14.240 had no job skills so really struggled. He became a 0:28:14.320 --> 0:28:17.719 drifter and again, like Dick, was arrested a lot for 0:28:17.720 --> 0:28:22.639 petty crimes. Now, the difference between Dick and Perry in 0:28:22.680 --> 0:28:26.080 committing crimes is it spoken about more as if Dick 0:28:26.160 --> 0:28:29.720 did the crimes because he was well a Dick, and 0:28:29.760 --> 0:28:32.720 Perry because he was more desperate. He didn't have money, 0:28:32.760 --> 0:28:35.440 he couldn't get a job, and that's why he'll do 0:28:35.520 --> 0:28:37.159 the crimes. I mean, that's not an excuse, but that 0:28:37.280 --> 0:28:37.960 was his excuse. 0:28:38.040 --> 0:28:38.640 Sure, yep. 0:28:39.440 --> 0:28:44.240 In nineteen fifty six, Perry and Dick were at Lancing, 0:28:44.560 --> 0:28:46.680 Sorry I said, I said Kansas State Penitentary. 0:28:46.680 --> 0:28:48.640 Though know they were at long Lancing, Okay. 0:28:49.280 --> 0:28:53.400 Floyd Wells says that Dick became obsessed with the thought 0:28:53.440 --> 0:28:55.640 of this ten thousand dollars in the farmer's house in 0:28:55.680 --> 0:28:56.200 Hosmol So. 0:28:56.240 --> 0:29:00.480 Much money, yes, wild, Yeah. 0:29:01.040 --> 0:29:03.400 Dick would say that he was going to take this 0:29:03.520 --> 0:29:08.240 new friend, Perry Smith, because he was dumb and impressionable 0:29:08.800 --> 0:29:10.560 and he was going to steal the money from the 0:29:10.600 --> 0:29:16.800 safe when they got out of prison. Now, Dick saw 0:29:16.840 --> 0:29:20.680 something in Perry that he had, something that he wanted. 0:29:20.880 --> 0:29:23.719 So Perry had something that Dick wanted, and that was 0:29:23.800 --> 0:29:27.800 the skills of a natural born killer. According to Dick. 0:29:27.920 --> 0:29:28.360 Wow. 0:29:28.960 --> 0:29:31.760 Perry also then saw something in Dick that he didn't have. 0:29:32.200 --> 0:29:35.520 That was confidence, the ability to make a move without 0:29:35.600 --> 0:29:36.680 second guessing yourself. 0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:38.360 Sure, okay, so. 0:29:38.240 --> 0:29:40.200 They see each other as the person he's going to 0:29:40.240 --> 0:29:43.520 make this robbery actually happen. Neither of them would do 0:29:43.560 --> 0:29:46.520 it on their own. They can do it together, and 0:29:46.600 --> 0:29:50.320 Perry was always seeking Dick's validation. Again, they grew up 0:29:50.400 --> 0:29:55.200 very differently. Perry grew up quite unloved by all accounts, 0:29:55.320 --> 0:29:57.840 and Dick really took him under his wing, and Perry 0:29:57.920 --> 0:30:01.800 kind of really took to that and wanted to impress 0:30:01.880 --> 0:30:05.480 him and be friends with him. Perry got parole on 0:30:05.600 --> 0:30:10.320 July sixth, nineteen fifty nine. He had to leave Kansas. 0:30:10.400 --> 0:30:12.560 Under his parle conditions, he wasn't ever allowed back in 0:30:12.600 --> 0:30:15.520 the state or for the parole term. He wasn't allowed 0:30:15.520 --> 0:30:16.160 back in the state. 0:30:16.320 --> 0:30:18.320 Interesting not to be allowed back in the state usually 0:30:18.360 --> 0:30:21.200 think that you actually have to stay some ways people 0:30:21.200 --> 0:30:22.760 can keep an eye on you, but not allowed in 0:30:22.840 --> 0:30:24.400 the state. Since it's kind of. 0:30:24.360 --> 0:30:26.160 Like, I don't know if this is the case, but 0:30:26.200 --> 0:30:28.400 it feels like they've gone, well, if you're going to 0:30:28.440 --> 0:30:29.240 do more petty. 0:30:29.000 --> 0:30:32.000 Crimes, not on our URMs, go to another state someone else. Yeah, yeah, 0:30:32.040 --> 0:30:34.640 but it does feel like that. Yeah. 0:30:34.680 --> 0:30:37.240 But he did stay close by to Kansas, so as 0:30:37.240 --> 0:30:39.959 close as he could possibly be, because he was waiting 0:30:40.000 --> 0:30:41.680 for Dick to get out and he wanted to be 0:30:41.920 --> 0:30:44.520 as close as it could be. Dick was meant to 0:30:44.520 --> 0:30:46.240 get out many months later, but he actually got an 0:30:46.280 --> 0:30:49.360 early release and was released in August, so just about 0:30:49.400 --> 0:30:52.960 five or six weeks after Perry was released. Dick moved 0:30:52.960 --> 0:30:54.920 back in with his parents for a few months so 0:30:54.960 --> 0:30:57.120 he could save up some money, and the two men 0:30:57.160 --> 0:31:00.360 wrote letters back and forth talking about their plan to 0:31:00.480 --> 0:31:05.120 rob the clutter farm. Perry was hesitant. He didn't want 0:31:05.120 --> 0:31:08.720 to mess up his parole by returning to Kansas. Apparently 0:31:08.760 --> 0:31:10.520 it wasn't the robbery that worried him, it was just 0:31:10.840 --> 0:31:15.200 breaking parole. I think he was so they'd convince themselves 0:31:15.200 --> 0:31:17.560 they're never going to get caught, so it's like what 0:31:17.640 --> 0:31:20.239 if what if we get pulled Oh yeah, what if 0:31:20.240 --> 0:31:22.800 we get pulled over while I'm in Kansas and they 0:31:22.800 --> 0:31:25.120 find out that I'm here, like the robbery part, we 0:31:25.160 --> 0:31:30.320 won't get caught for that. Very smart people. After many 0:31:30.680 --> 0:31:35.920 letters back and forth and Dick's insistence, Perry said, Perry said, LFG, 0:31:36.080 --> 0:31:40.320 let's fucking go. Don't know if he actually said he did, 0:31:40.360 --> 0:31:47.960 and he probably didn't write LFG hand drawn a little 0:31:47.960 --> 0:31:51.959 bomb thing. So it was planned that they would meet 0:31:52.040 --> 0:31:56.560 in Olatha, which is close to the Missouri border, in 0:31:56.640 --> 0:32:02.000 early November. Right, they got there on November fourteen. 0:32:02.440 --> 0:32:05.480 This it was quite a long time, like August to November, because. 0:32:05.240 --> 0:32:07.760 Remember I said that they were planning it out. Yeah, 0:32:08.360 --> 0:32:10.600 Dick moved back in with his parents so they could 0:32:11.360 --> 0:32:13.680 plan it for a while without kind of the you know, 0:32:13.880 --> 0:32:16.360 guards of the prison watching them and could save up 0:32:16.440 --> 0:32:18.520 some money. They could both do some you know, little 0:32:18.600 --> 0:32:21.719 jobs here and there to make some money, and they 0:32:21.720 --> 0:32:23.560 wanted to make sure they had this plan or you 0:32:23.560 --> 0:32:26.960 know down pat They also knew that Floyd Wells was 0:32:26.960 --> 0:32:28.960 the only other person that kind of as far as 0:32:28.960 --> 0:32:31.320 they knew, knew about this cash and was robbing and 0:32:31.520 --> 0:32:33.720 he was still behind bars, so they weren't like, oh, 0:32:33.760 --> 0:32:36.480 someone else was going to get the cash first. So 0:32:36.640 --> 0:32:40.600 on November fourteen, they stole a car in Olatha and 0:32:40.640 --> 0:32:43.280 they drove four hundred miles, which is about six hundred 0:32:43.320 --> 0:32:45.720 and fifty kilometers, such a long way, which to me 0:32:45.880 --> 0:32:47.360 my mind was like that, I don't really know what 0:32:47.360 --> 0:32:48.720 that means. So I looked it up and that's the 0:32:48.720 --> 0:32:50.760 same distance as if you were drive to drive from 0:32:50.760 --> 0:32:51.800 Melbourne to Canberra. 0:32:52.240 --> 0:32:54.320 Yeah, it's a lot. It's like eight hours. 0:32:54.400 --> 0:32:57.480 Ye into that like I mean yea on Google Maps 0:32:57.480 --> 0:32:59.200 and said driving to Melbourne to Cambra it will be eight hours. 0:32:59.240 --> 0:33:01.200 Don't know how long it took, like a Chevy in the. 0:33:01.440 --> 0:33:03.080 Yeah, yeah, but that's such a long drive. 0:33:03.280 --> 0:33:05.800 Yes, And they drove to a place called Garden City, 0:33:06.560 --> 0:33:10.880 which is where hulkambe is. They stopped once on the 0:33:10.880 --> 0:33:15.360 way and bought nylon rope, rubber gloves, adhesive tape, and 0:33:15.400 --> 0:33:19.760 a small pocket knife. They arrived in Garden City just 0:33:19.920 --> 0:33:24.320 after midnight on December fifteenth, where they stopped for gas 0:33:25.400 --> 0:33:28.120 and then they drove the final mile to Hulkam and 0:33:28.160 --> 0:33:32.360 the River Valley Farm. River Valley Farm has a long 0:33:32.400 --> 0:33:35.360 a dirt driveway. Before they drove up to the farm. 0:33:35.440 --> 0:33:38.800 They stopped at the base of the driveway to kind of, 0:33:39.080 --> 0:33:41.240 you know, get themselves sighted up and like you know, 0:33:41.280 --> 0:33:43.240 try to low with their nerves and get themselves ready 0:33:43.240 --> 0:33:45.640 for this. They sat there to try to get their 0:33:45.680 --> 0:33:48.160 heads straight, and they saw a light go on in 0:33:48.200 --> 0:33:52.440 another house nearby, and they totally freaked out. Dix said, 0:33:52.480 --> 0:33:54.240 we can't do this tonight. No, no, no, you know 0:33:54.240 --> 0:33:57.239 there's lights on his rear. Freaked down, but't together. They 0:33:57.280 --> 0:34:00.400 catch their breaths, pull themselves together, and up they go 0:34:00.520 --> 0:34:03.760 on the long driveway towards the Clutter family far foot 0:34:04.880 --> 0:34:06.840 in the car in the car like at least a 0:34:06.840 --> 0:34:07.640 little bit of the way. 0:34:07.480 --> 0:34:13.799 In the they. 0:34:11.239 --> 0:34:13.200 Got yet right up to the house. Sorry. The next sentence 0:34:13.239 --> 0:34:16.600 says they parked the car near a side entrance to 0:34:16.719 --> 0:34:20.840 the house where Floyd had said there was an office 0:34:21.040 --> 0:34:24.600 with the safe with the cash, and the two men 0:34:24.840 --> 0:34:28.000 just warnders straight in to the office in the family 0:34:28.080 --> 0:34:32.080 hot door. Well, it's the nineteen fifties, it's a fine 0:34:32.360 --> 0:34:38.279 town and a farm that no doors were locked. Now, 0:34:38.320 --> 0:34:40.719 as I said, they stopped and bought rope tape and 0:34:40.800 --> 0:34:44.600 a pocket knife, and rubber gloves. But what they already 0:34:44.680 --> 0:34:47.520 had and brought into the farm with them was a 0:34:47.640 --> 0:34:52.360 large flashlight, a large hunting knife, and a shot gun 0:34:54.280 --> 0:34:59.040 for a robbery. Allegedly, Dick has the knife and Perry 0:34:59.080 --> 0:35:02.160 has the gun. Now, no one is in the office 0:35:02.200 --> 0:35:04.839 space that they walk into, so they rifle around and 0:35:04.920 --> 0:35:07.240 search for the safe, but they can't find it. Floyd 0:35:07.280 --> 0:35:09.319 had said it would behind the desk. It wasn't there. 0:35:09.640 --> 0:35:11.399 They're kind of looking in cupboards and stuff, and they're 0:35:11.400 --> 0:35:15.040 a bit confused because Floyd had also described this office 0:35:15.040 --> 0:35:17.840 as that really large and fancy, so they were assuming 0:35:17.840 --> 0:35:20.480 it would be really obvious this family was loaded. Yes, 0:35:20.800 --> 0:35:23.680 the office they found themselves in was just a tiny 0:35:23.680 --> 0:35:27.520 little home office was really modest and really normal, and importantly, 0:35:27.840 --> 0:35:33.160 there was no safe. Dick in particular is pierced. Yeah, 0:35:33.239 --> 0:35:36.040 he had planned this all out for months and was 0:35:36.160 --> 0:35:39.799 not going to leave without his money. He'd been planning it, 0:35:39.880 --> 0:35:43.719 or at least daydreaming about it, for five years. So 0:35:43.760 --> 0:35:46.080 what would you do if you were Dick and Perry 0:35:46.080 --> 0:35:46.800 in this situation. 0:35:47.600 --> 0:35:49.480 I would turn myself into prison. 0:35:50.239 --> 0:35:52.080 Into prison, rock up to prison. 0:35:52.120 --> 0:35:55.480 Go excuse me, sir, I was about to crime man. 0:35:55.480 --> 0:35:58.919 That's why you're good and that's why you're here today 0:35:59.040 --> 0:35:59.560 not in prison. 0:35:59.760 --> 0:36:00.759 Yeah, that's right. 0:36:01.000 --> 0:36:03.680 Well Perry and Dick did was go and ask the 0:36:03.719 --> 0:36:05.080 family where the money was. 0:36:06.000 --> 0:36:08.120 So they're like holding them up and saying, you know 0:36:08.120 --> 0:36:09.120 where some money? Whars money? 0:36:09.160 --> 0:36:10.799 Oh, I'm going to tell you exactly what they did. 0:36:11.360 --> 0:36:20.160 Unfortunately Chad's break. Perry and Dick walk into Herb and 0:36:20.160 --> 0:36:24.320 Bonnie's room and wake them with a flashlight. With the flashlight, 0:36:24.440 --> 0:36:27.440 flashlight straight to the eyes. Now, there are conflicting reports 0:36:27.440 --> 0:36:30.080 here about where the body was in that room or 0:36:30.120 --> 0:36:33.680 another room. Because of her her health issues, she would 0:36:33.719 --> 0:36:34.799 often sleep in a different room. 0:36:34.880 --> 0:36:35.080 Yeah. 0:36:35.160 --> 0:36:37.840 Sure, either way, it was their bedroom and at the 0:36:37.960 --> 0:36:40.760 very least Herb was in there. Yep, he was woken 0:36:40.800 --> 0:36:43.680 up by flashlight to the eyes and they demanded to 0:36:43.719 --> 0:36:46.040 know where the safe was. Herb said there is no 0:36:46.160 --> 0:36:48.600 safe in the house. They've never had a safe, and 0:36:48.640 --> 0:36:53.080 there's definitely no cash. He famously pays for everything by check. 0:36:53.440 --> 0:36:56.239 Yeah yeah, everyone in town will back this up. He 0:36:56.239 --> 0:36:58.560 says he never uses cash and ever gets paid in cash. 0:36:58.560 --> 0:37:01.160 He never pays with cash. Everything is by check. Because 0:37:01.200 --> 0:37:01.840 it's a business. 0:37:01.880 --> 0:37:03.200 You have to come back to that. 0:37:03.960 --> 0:37:06.600 He says that he'll write these men a check for 0:37:07.120 --> 0:37:09.719 any amount of money. He'll ride away everything he has, 0:37:09.800 --> 0:37:13.799 but please please please leave my family, Alie, this isn't 0:37:13.800 --> 0:37:18.960 good enough for Dick and Perry. They want that cash. Money. Yeah, 0:37:19.239 --> 0:37:21.839 So they go around to every room. They get the 0:37:21.840 --> 0:37:25.120 rest of the family and lock them all in the 0:37:25.239 --> 0:37:28.600 upstairs bathroom together, tying them up with the rope that 0:37:28.640 --> 0:37:34.160 they brought. While the family was then locked in the bathroom, 0:37:34.480 --> 0:37:37.480 Dick and Perry turned the whole house upside down, looking 0:37:37.719 --> 0:37:41.719 for cash, looking for any valuables they could find, but 0:37:41.760 --> 0:37:43.799 there was nothing. There was no safe and there was 0:37:43.840 --> 0:37:47.480 no cash. Herb had been telling the truth, So what 0:37:47.600 --> 0:37:53.839 did this make? These robbers do get even angrier, so 0:37:53.920 --> 0:37:58.239 they decide to take it out on the family and 0:37:58.400 --> 0:37:59.880 trigger warning here for the details. 0:38:00.000 --> 0:38:00.680 What happened? 0:38:02.080 --> 0:38:05.040 Herb sorry, Dick and Perry go up to the bathroom. 0:38:05.600 --> 0:38:08.840 They put tape over the mouths of the people that 0:38:08.880 --> 0:38:12.760 they had tied up. Dick takes the two males, Herb 0:38:12.840 --> 0:38:15.759 and fifteen year old Kenyon down to the basement of 0:38:15.800 --> 0:38:19.399 the house, where he throws Herb onto the floor and 0:38:19.480 --> 0:38:22.239 ties Kenyan up to a pipe in the corner of 0:38:22.280 --> 0:38:26.880 the room. He then goes back upstairs, grabs sixteen year 0:38:26.880 --> 0:38:30.319 old Nancy, takes her to her bed and ties her 0:38:30.400 --> 0:38:33.879 up to her bed posts. Now, when she's found she 0:38:33.920 --> 0:38:37.040 doesn't have tape on her mouth. The other family members 0:38:37.080 --> 0:38:41.799 all do. While this is happening, Perry is left in 0:38:41.800 --> 0:38:45.600 the bathroom to watch over Bonnie. She's hog tied on 0:38:45.640 --> 0:38:49.239 the floor with her mouth taped. At one point he 0:38:49.280 --> 0:38:55.279 offered her a chair because she looked uncomfortable. Then Dick 0:38:55.360 --> 0:38:57.720 comes into the bathroom and does the same thing to Bonnie, 0:38:57.760 --> 0:38:59.680 taking her to her bed and tying her to the 0:38:59.719 --> 0:39:04.239 bed posts. Dick and Perry then go down to the 0:39:04.280 --> 0:39:08.760 basement and Perry notices that herb is cold on the floor. 0:39:09.000 --> 0:39:11.040 It's a cement floor in the basement and its winter, 0:39:12.200 --> 0:39:15.120 So he gets pieces of cardboard and puts them down 0:39:15.160 --> 0:39:18.719 on the floor and places herb on top of them 0:39:18.760 --> 0:39:20.240 to make sure he's not as cold. 0:39:20.600 --> 0:39:23.480 It's such strange behavior in this sort of situation. 0:39:23.880 --> 0:39:27.239 Yeah. Now, while this is happening, it's almost as if 0:39:27.320 --> 0:39:30.200 Kenyan seems to notice a hint of like compassion or 0:39:30.200 --> 0:39:34.720 maybe regret or softness or something. And Kenyan the fifteen 0:39:34.760 --> 0:39:36.839 year old boy says that the tires that he's turned 0:39:36.920 --> 0:39:39.759 up to the pole of the pipe with are kind 0:39:39.760 --> 0:39:43.280 of cutting off circulations to his wrists and they're hurting. 0:39:44.360 --> 0:39:47.000 So Perry cuts him free, takes him to a couch 0:39:47.040 --> 0:39:50.080 that's in the basement and ties him up there looser, 0:39:50.600 --> 0:39:53.160 and brings him a pillow places under his head. 0:39:53.640 --> 0:39:57.680 It's so bizarre, it is sunny, bizarre behavior, bizarre. Now, 0:39:57.800 --> 0:39:59.280 what you're going to go through with this, you'd imagine 0:39:59.280 --> 0:40:00.239 you'd be callous. 0:39:59.880 --> 0:40:02.160 And this is the thing, right, So I don't want 0:40:02.160 --> 0:40:03.880 to give any spoilers, but the episode is called The 0:40:03.880 --> 0:40:06.920 Clutter Family Murders, so take from that what you will. 0:40:07.280 --> 0:40:09.880 But it makes it so much weirder that they're making 0:40:09.920 --> 0:40:16.239 them comfortable. Yes, yeah, The whole ordeal lasts around two hours. 0:40:16.640 --> 0:40:17.400 It's awful. 0:40:17.480 --> 0:40:20.319 Can you like, I mean, you can't can't imagine what 0:40:20.360 --> 0:40:23.640 that would be like for that family. They're also and 0:40:23.680 --> 0:40:27.799 the two Bonnie and Nancy are on their own in 0:40:27.840 --> 0:40:30.960 their own rooms, tied up on their own. Herb and 0:40:31.040 --> 0:40:34.520 Kenyan are together, but you know, not being able to 0:40:34.560 --> 0:40:36.319 help each other and not knowing what they can do 0:40:36.360 --> 0:40:41.560 and what's going to happen. After two hours where we 0:40:41.600 --> 0:40:45.520 don't really know what happened, Perry tells Dick to go 0:40:45.560 --> 0:40:50.520 and get the knife and kill herb. My god, Perry says, 0:40:50.520 --> 0:40:52.880 Dick was teasing him about not having the guts to 0:40:52.920 --> 0:40:55.680 do it himself, saying, this is what we've come here 0:40:55.719 --> 0:40:56.120 to do. 0:40:56.920 --> 0:40:57.440 So was it. 0:40:57.520 --> 0:41:01.279 Planned a planned murder all along? This doesn't sound like 0:41:01.360 --> 0:41:03.719 just a robbery for cash. If they're going, well, come on, 0:41:03.840 --> 0:41:06.160 this is what we came here to do, you do it. 0:41:07.360 --> 0:41:09.160 And if it was a plan murder all along, why 0:41:09.280 --> 0:41:12.560 take two hours and make it so cruel like doing, 0:41:12.680 --> 0:41:15.000 you know, tying them up and everything and leaving them 0:41:15.040 --> 0:41:19.560 there for so long. Then, after being teased by Dick, 0:41:19.960 --> 0:41:22.560 Perry does exactly what I'm sure Dick was trying to 0:41:22.560 --> 0:41:26.080 get him to do. Is reacts by grabbing the hunting 0:41:26.160 --> 0:41:30.840 knife from Dick, and he slits Herb's throat in front 0:41:30.840 --> 0:41:35.600 of his fifteen year old son. He then, because apparently 0:41:35.640 --> 0:41:40.719 this was necessary, also shoots Herb at close range in 0:41:40.760 --> 0:41:45.560 the head. Shortly after that, fifteen year old Kenyon is 0:41:45.640 --> 0:41:49.440 also shot in the head at close range. When he's found, 0:41:49.640 --> 0:41:51.759 his head is lying on the pillow that Perry had 0:41:51.800 --> 0:41:57.000 brought him. My god, Nancy and Bonnie are upstairs, and 0:41:57.080 --> 0:42:00.000 I can only assume they would have heard two shots 0:42:00.120 --> 0:42:00.399 go out. 0:42:00.400 --> 0:42:03.160 Of course, can you fucking imagine? Horrific? 0:42:05.480 --> 0:42:07.799 The terror wouldn't have lasted that long though for them 0:42:07.880 --> 0:42:11.240 after hearing the shots, because after they had killed Herb 0:42:11.440 --> 0:42:15.759 and Kenyan, the men went up to Nancy's room and 0:42:15.840 --> 0:42:19.360 shot her sixteen year old Nancy in the face, followed 0:42:19.360 --> 0:42:24.319 by Bonnie. The two men collected the shotgun shells as 0:42:24.360 --> 0:42:26.680 they went around the house so as not to leave 0:42:26.719 --> 0:42:31.320 a link to their gun. All four Clutter family members 0:42:31.320 --> 0:42:33.880 were shot at very close range in the face or 0:42:33.880 --> 0:42:38.520 the head. Herb was also cut to the throat. About 0:42:38.560 --> 0:42:41.840 the shootings, Perry would later tell a court, which is 0:42:42.120 --> 0:42:45.359 perhaps a spoiler as well, it was like picking off 0:42:45.400 --> 0:42:47.080 targets in a shooting gallery. 0:42:48.120 --> 0:42:52.239 Of course it was. It's a horrender horrendos correct use 0:42:52.280 --> 0:42:53.200 of the word correct use. 0:42:55.000 --> 0:42:57.600 When they were done raiding the house and killing an 0:42:57.760 --> 0:43:01.880 entire innocent family, the men left with nothing but a 0:43:01.920 --> 0:43:06.239 pair of binoculars, a transistor radio, and forty bucks they 0:43:06.320 --> 0:43:10.640 found in Herb's wallet. All that for four lives. 0:43:11.160 --> 0:43:13.680 It's disgusting they're also. 0:43:13.600 --> 0:43:17.080 Fucking stupid because there was an envelope full of cash 0:43:17.120 --> 0:43:20.360 on Nancy's dresser that they just didn't see, I guess, 0:43:21.040 --> 0:43:23.440 and this is awful. The reason the sixteen year old 0:43:23.480 --> 0:43:25.520 girl had an envelope full of cash on her dresser 0:43:25.760 --> 0:43:27.680 was because she was going to make a donation to 0:43:27.719 --> 0:43:34.200 the church the following morning. So Sad, Perry and Dick 0:43:34.480 --> 0:43:38.520 drive off past the county boundary line and then they 0:43:38.560 --> 0:43:41.600 cleaned themselves and the gun off with the car's radiator water, 0:43:42.480 --> 0:43:45.280 and then they dug a hole and buried the shotgun shells, 0:43:45.400 --> 0:43:48.600 the tape, and the rope just next to the highway. 0:43:49.040 --> 0:43:52.080 They didn't bury the knife or the gun. I mean, 0:43:52.080 --> 0:43:55.640 these guys are seen next tuesdays. They thought where might 0:43:56.040 --> 0:43:58.400 use these for something else? And you know they're petty 0:43:58.440 --> 0:44:00.640 criminals and they're stealing cars and all sorts of things, 0:44:00.719 --> 0:44:02.400 so they probably think we're not going to get rid 0:44:02.400 --> 0:44:10.359 of our weapon. The following day, a Sunday morning, the 0:44:10.360 --> 0:44:15.239 Clutters didn't arrive to Nancy's friend, Susan Kidwell's house to 0:44:15.320 --> 0:44:19.560 pick her up for church, as they always did. Nancy 0:44:19.600 --> 0:44:22.600 and her family, sorry, Susan and her family were concerned immediately. 0:44:23.440 --> 0:44:25.600 They tried calling the clutter house a number of times 0:44:25.640 --> 0:44:29.520 and got no answer. So Nancy and a friend, sorry, 0:44:29.640 --> 0:44:31.960 this is confusing. Susan and a friend whose name was 0:44:32.000 --> 0:44:36.520 also Nancy, Oh sure, yep, and this Nancy's dad went 0:44:36.640 --> 0:44:39.200 over to the clutter farm to check that all was okay. 0:44:40.080 --> 0:44:42.560 They could tell something was off immediately when they arrived 0:44:42.600 --> 0:44:45.279 because the family's car was there they should have been 0:44:45.320 --> 0:44:47.840 at church, and there were no lights on in the house, 0:44:47.960 --> 0:44:51.759 no noises coming from there at all. The dad had 0:44:51.800 --> 0:44:53.799 been working on his farm that morning, so I said, 0:44:53.800 --> 0:44:56.120 I don't want to trapes mud through the house. I'll 0:44:56.200 --> 0:44:58.879 take off my boots and you girls go ahead and 0:44:59.080 --> 0:45:03.000 call out to your friend. So Susan and Nancy, two 0:45:03.040 --> 0:45:05.280 young girls, go into the clutter farm. 0:45:05.320 --> 0:45:06.439 Oh my gosh. 0:45:07.160 --> 0:45:10.359 The kitchen door was unlocked, which was normal, but there 0:45:10.360 --> 0:45:13.000 were no signs anyone had made breakfast, which was odd 0:45:13.040 --> 0:45:14.480 for this time of the morning in a house full 0:45:14.480 --> 0:45:19.600 of people. Then they saw Nancy's purse open on the floor, 0:45:20.360 --> 0:45:23.040 so they started calling out for their friend and walked 0:45:23.120 --> 0:45:27.239 up towards her bedroom. They saw the door ajar and 0:45:27.280 --> 0:45:30.640 they went in and they saw Nancy on the bed, 0:45:31.760 --> 0:45:35.320 wearing her nightie, bound to the bed by her hands 0:45:35.320 --> 0:45:39.680 and feet, with cords torn from her curtains. There was 0:45:39.719 --> 0:45:44.120 blood all over the walls, floor, and roof, and her 0:45:44.120 --> 0:45:46.440 face was not recognizable because it had been shot at 0:45:46.480 --> 0:45:52.160 such close range. Susan later said she didn't remember screaming. 0:45:52.840 --> 0:45:56.000 She only remembered seeing Nancy's Teddy Bear staring at her 0:45:56.920 --> 0:46:01.600 and her friend running away. The dad heard the screens 0:46:02.160 --> 0:46:04.640 and the girls running out, so he went in and 0:46:04.680 --> 0:46:08.320 he saw the same thing. He called the sheriff immediately. 0:46:09.760 --> 0:46:16.080 They had only seen Nancy. Finney County Sheriff Earl Robinson 0:46:16.560 --> 0:46:19.400 called in his friend at the Kansas Bureau the KBI, 0:46:19.640 --> 0:46:24.360 not the FBI, but his friend Alvin Dewey, who both 0:46:24.400 --> 0:46:27.319 came out, and it was them who searched the whole 0:46:27.360 --> 0:46:31.440 house and discovered the horrors. Also in Bonnie's bedroom and 0:46:31.480 --> 0:46:37.080 the basement. They found Bonnie as they had found Nancy. 0:46:38.200 --> 0:46:40.520 They found a Kenyon who had been shot in the 0:46:40.520 --> 0:46:42.960 face with his head still on the pillow on the couch, 0:46:43.960 --> 0:46:47.360 and they found herb hung from a pipe in the basement. 0:46:48.080 --> 0:46:49.839 So they hung him after they I think it. 0:46:49.840 --> 0:46:52.440 Was possible that he'd been tortured before he was killed. 0:46:55.360 --> 0:46:58.879 So the Finney County Sheriff's apartment and the KBI had 0:46:58.880 --> 0:47:04.560 a quadruple aside and zero idea what happened. The family 0:47:04.600 --> 0:47:08.160 had no known enemies, there were no dodgy business dealings, 0:47:08.520 --> 0:47:13.480 and no one had seen nor heard a thing. Seventeen 0:47:13.520 --> 0:47:17.000 investigators were assigned to the case. It was initially thought 0:47:17.040 --> 0:47:19.279 to be a robbery gone wrong, which is kind of 0:47:20.080 --> 0:47:24.360 semi right maybe, but they were confused by the cash 0:47:24.440 --> 0:47:28.720 left in Nancy's room and that both Bonnie and Herb 0:47:28.880 --> 0:47:32.279 were wearing gold wedding rings and Bonnie a diamond engagement ring. 0:47:32.880 --> 0:47:36.520 It's bizarre they didn't take those because they're fucking stupid. Yeah, yeah, 0:47:36.880 --> 0:47:38.200 just want to cash, because that's what they. 0:47:38.160 --> 0:47:40.439 Came I just think that maybe weren't even smart enough 0:47:40.440 --> 0:47:42.840 to like, look, yeah, I think about it. 0:47:43.200 --> 0:47:44.839 If they didn't find the money on the dresser, then 0:47:44.880 --> 0:47:46.560 you're like, well, yeah, but. 0:47:46.520 --> 0:47:48.840 It's because they said they ransacked the whole house looking 0:47:48.840 --> 0:47:51.720 for cash. But they were just looking for that massive 0:47:51.760 --> 0:47:54.640 sum of cash. I don't know how and why they 0:47:54.719 --> 0:47:59.480 ended up like taking nicking a transistor radio and a 0:47:59.480 --> 0:48:02.960 pair of big Yeah, but why not then why would 0:48:03.040 --> 0:48:06.680 you be thinking about jewelry and stuff. They're just idiots, 0:48:06.719 --> 0:48:11.239 like dangerous, horrible criminal audience. There was one funeral held 0:48:11.280 --> 0:48:13.000 for the four Clutter family members. 0:48:13.000 --> 0:48:15.400 One funeral for four yeah. 0:48:15.200 --> 0:48:18.280 Which is I think so sad. Well, it's more devastating 0:48:18.280 --> 0:48:18.919 because I meant there. 0:48:18.800 --> 0:48:20.920 Were four caskets there all together. 0:48:22.600 --> 0:48:26.400 More than one thousand people attended the funeral, which is 0:48:26.480 --> 0:48:28.799 an amazing for a small town. 0:48:28.920 --> 0:48:32.720 Oh my god, absolutely wild. It shows how well loved 0:48:32.719 --> 0:48:34.160 and respected they were, exactly. 0:48:34.680 --> 0:48:37.520 And the town was so small that the KBI offices 0:48:37.560 --> 0:48:41.040 and local sheriffs were there not because they were investigating 0:48:41.080 --> 0:48:42.840 their deaths, but because they knew. 0:48:42.600 --> 0:48:45.239 Herb Oh, that's so sad, and that. 0:48:45.160 --> 0:48:49.160 Makes you realize that Alvin Dewey and Earl Robinson, when 0:48:49.200 --> 0:48:52.120 they went into the house to find what they did, 0:48:52.719 --> 0:48:54.279 that was someone they knew. 0:48:54.520 --> 0:48:57.680 Yeah, yeah, oh god, it's just so much more awful. 0:49:00.080 --> 0:49:03.439 So investigators started looking into whether it could have been 0:49:03.880 --> 0:49:06.320 a grug Oh sorry, So when I was saying about 0:49:06.320 --> 0:49:09.040 them thinking it was maybe a robbery gone wrong, when 0:49:09.040 --> 0:49:10.920 they found that their jewelry was still there, that the 0:49:11.000 --> 0:49:14.120 envelope of cushion still they were like, actually, it feels 0:49:14.160 --> 0:49:16.200 more like someone's trying to make it look like a 0:49:16.280 --> 0:49:19.359 robbery by kind of throwing things around and leaving an 0:49:19.360 --> 0:49:22.000 open wallot on the floor and stuff like that. So 0:49:22.040 --> 0:49:24.399 they started looking into whether this could have possibly been 0:49:24.440 --> 0:49:28.680 a grudge killing against Sure, they had no ideas otherwise. 0:49:28.719 --> 0:49:32.880 So like right, Herbs a prominent businessman and politician, like 0:49:32.960 --> 0:49:38.520 we know works with political alliances. There are a few 0:49:38.520 --> 0:49:41.640 people around town who did say, like, I mean, yeah, 0:49:41.640 --> 0:49:44.160 I suppose there'll always be people unhappy with, you know, 0:49:44.440 --> 0:49:48.200 a businessman who's doing well and someone aligned with politics. 0:49:49.800 --> 0:49:56.480 Another suspect came up who was Nancy's boyfriend, seventeen year old. 0:49:56.680 --> 0:49:57.440 Do you remember his name? 0:49:57.520 --> 0:49:59.960 No, Webby Upby Up of course. 0:50:00.840 --> 0:50:02.960 He was the last person to have seen the Clutter 0:50:03.000 --> 0:50:07.440 family alive. He visited the Clutter home on November fourteen 0:50:08.640 --> 0:50:12.200 to watch television with Nancy and her family and said 0:50:12.239 --> 0:50:16.839 he left around eleven PM. Now we know now investigators 0:50:16.840 --> 0:50:18.640 didn't at the time that Perry and Dick got there 0:50:18.680 --> 0:50:21.759 around midnight, so they very well could have been a 0:50:21.760 --> 0:50:25.000 fifth victim in this. Bobby Up was still there, but 0:50:25.040 --> 0:50:26.520 of course they didn't know that at the time. They 0:50:26.560 --> 0:50:30.080 were looking into why he could have You know why. 0:50:30.080 --> 0:50:31.600 He was the last person to see them alive. And 0:50:31.640 --> 0:50:33.640 of course, as we always say, it's always the husband 0:50:33.680 --> 0:50:37.680 and the boyfriend, yes, yeah, and or and it's always 0:50:37.680 --> 0:50:39.960 the husband and the book usually, Yeah, that's the motive 0:50:40.800 --> 0:50:44.520 and a boyfriend. Now, people in the town started to gossip, 0:50:44.640 --> 0:50:49.720 of course they did. There's four people knew, and gossip 0:50:49.800 --> 0:50:52.520 came up about Bobby Rupp as well. There was there 0:50:52.520 --> 0:50:55.040 were rumors that there had been tensions in the family 0:50:55.360 --> 0:50:59.720 about Nancy and Bobby's relationship because the Clutters were Seventh 0:50:59.800 --> 0:51:04.799 Day Vinists and Bobby was Catholic, right, okay, and the 0:51:04.840 --> 0:51:07.080 relationship was getting pretty serious. They've been together for a 0:51:07.080 --> 0:51:09.960 couple of years, so maybe there were some fights about 0:51:09.960 --> 0:51:14.880 whether Nancy was allowed to continue seeing Bobby. But no 0:51:14.920 --> 0:51:17.279 matter of these suspicions, whether it was a business or 0:51:17.320 --> 0:51:20.600 political grudge or something to do with Bobby and Nancy's relationship, 0:51:20.640 --> 0:51:24.720 police needed evidence to grow more than suspicions about anyone. 0:51:24.960 --> 0:51:26.920 Yeah. 0:51:27.239 --> 0:51:31.640 The evidence they found in the house was boot prints 0:51:31.680 --> 0:51:35.439 in the blood on the floor of the basement and 0:51:36.120 --> 0:51:38.120 the one in the blood on the floor, and another 0:51:38.160 --> 0:51:41.279 bootprint on the cardboard that had been put down get 0:51:41.320 --> 0:51:44.080 cold before brutally murdering and probably torturing him. 0:51:44.280 --> 0:51:47.120 Bootprints is so odd in the blood that is so strange. 0:51:47.440 --> 0:51:52.600 Well, they were very clear bootprints. One had a diamond 0:51:52.680 --> 0:51:56.840 pattern on the soul and another bootprint had a Cat's 0:51:56.880 --> 0:52:04.000 poor brand logo, so very distinct. Two different brands, So 0:52:04.080 --> 0:52:07.840 two different boots, and no shoes in the clutterhouse matched 0:52:07.920 --> 0:52:11.880 either of these shoes. So suddenly police are looking for 0:52:11.960 --> 0:52:16.160 two killers. Yes, yeah, police determined the type of gun 0:52:16.200 --> 0:52:19.920 shot used, and just four days after the murders they 0:52:20.000 --> 0:52:23.680 found some upturned earth next to the highway. So someone 0:52:23.680 --> 0:52:26.120 had said that they noticed blood on like the bridge 0:52:26.120 --> 0:52:28.319 crossing and then saw this like part like piece of 0:52:28.400 --> 0:52:32.920 upturned earth. So they called police and they police dug 0:52:33.520 --> 0:52:37.720 very like for thirty seconds. It was a very shallow grave. 0:52:38.040 --> 0:52:42.239 Found the tape, the rope, the shell casings, which of 0:52:42.239 --> 0:52:45.120 course matched the type of gun that they'd worked out had. 0:52:44.960 --> 0:52:47.120 Been usede they didn't try and hide it. 0:52:47.200 --> 0:52:54.239 Like just a second, maybe we'll retitle this episode. So 0:52:54.760 --> 0:52:57.960 suddenly it seems to police that they could be looking 0:52:57.960 --> 0:53:02.960 for strangers. Perhaps there were no grudges or family dynamics 0:53:03.080 --> 0:53:07.440 at play here. It looked like someone was but two 0:53:07.480 --> 0:53:10.680 people had come in and just killed them. Yeah, the 0:53:10.800 --> 0:53:15.239 murders were huge news. It was a tiny, tiny community 0:53:15.480 --> 0:53:19.280 and everyone in the community was really close. People stopped 0:53:19.360 --> 0:53:21.880 leaving their homes for the first time ever. They bought 0:53:21.920 --> 0:53:25.400 locks for their homes. The idea that strangers could have 0:53:25.440 --> 0:53:29.640 come in and murdered a beloved, quiet, young religious family 0:53:30.160 --> 0:53:34.560 was more terrifying than any other prospect anyone could imagine. 0:53:34.719 --> 0:53:37.399 It quickly went from local news to national news too. 0:53:38.040 --> 0:53:40.479 Murders of this level just didn't happen in small town, 0:53:40.560 --> 0:53:48.040 farming communities. And because this made national news, a man 0:53:48.120 --> 0:53:52.600 named Floyd Wells heard what happened. He was still in 0:53:52.680 --> 0:53:56.279 jail and heard it on the radio. He didn't want 0:53:56.320 --> 0:53:59.239 to get drawn into it, so we didn't say anything yet. 0:54:00.920 --> 0:54:04.120 But after two weeks he decided he needed to unload 0:54:04.160 --> 0:54:06.319 his burden where there was his conscious that got the 0:54:06.320 --> 0:54:06.759 better of. 0:54:06.800 --> 0:54:09.240 Him only two weeks was that, yeah, well. 0:54:11.200 --> 0:54:14.680 He had only told them a Todd, Perry and Dick 0:54:14.719 --> 0:54:17.480 about the cash, and he knew the family like he'd 0:54:17.480 --> 0:54:19.759 worked with them, so yeah, maybe his conscience couldn't handle 0:54:19.800 --> 0:54:22.520 the fact that they'd been killed. He made a plan 0:54:22.600 --> 0:54:25.279 to be called into the said the burden's office, the 0:54:25.320 --> 0:54:26.080 warden's office. 0:54:26.120 --> 0:54:31.600 Sure exactly, but he wanted to. 0:54:31.640 --> 0:54:34.560 Do so under false pretenses because you know, you don't 0:54:34.560 --> 0:54:37.359 snitch in jail, so someone to just send him walk 0:54:37.400 --> 0:54:39.400 into the warden's office, they'd be like, the fuck are 0:54:39.360 --> 0:54:39.799 you doing? 0:54:39.880 --> 0:54:42.200 Well? Snitches get stitches. 0:54:42.280 --> 0:54:43.200 That's what I've written. 0:54:44.040 --> 0:54:46.440 Oh I had another one with chocolate nappies. 0:54:46.920 --> 0:54:53.080 That's you've said that before. I hate that. Okay, okay, okay, 0:54:53.440 --> 0:55:00.600 you're gonna say sorry, Okay, say sorry, Okay. So he 0:55:00.680 --> 0:55:02.400 whacked a guy so we would get called into the 0:55:02.400 --> 0:55:03.040 warden's office. 0:55:03.120 --> 0:55:08.759 Yeah, good to And I said like, yes I didn't 0:55:09.080 --> 0:55:10.640 mom m yeah, yeah, a whack. 0:55:10.719 --> 0:55:15.479 That's when you're like a contract killing. Yeah, it's also 0:55:15.960 --> 0:55:16.439 that's whap. 0:55:19.440 --> 0:55:21.000 As soon as I said that, you're going. 0:55:21.000 --> 0:55:22.879 To say that, I think I'm thinking of. 0:55:22.920 --> 0:55:27.880 Wham and say yeah, yeah, where puts it? No in 0:55:28.160 --> 0:55:30.400 old like you know, like all Batman. That's what I 0:55:30.480 --> 0:55:32.000 was thinking of the old you know, the old woman 0:55:32.000 --> 0:55:37.239 with Adam West. Yeah, yeah, swhack pow wham. But I said, 0:55:37.760 --> 0:55:40.680 where else puts it? That's what you said? I never 0:55:40.920 --> 0:55:41.319 give them? 0:55:42.520 --> 0:55:47.399 Okay, Well I've updated this story. So Perry's riding. Let's 0:55:47.440 --> 0:55:47.800 sucking go. 0:55:48.239 --> 0:55:53.680 Yeah, to relate to your kids. We're trying to get 0:55:53.680 --> 0:55:54.160 a big. 0:55:54.480 --> 0:55:57.080 Booktop booktog exactly trying to get some young listeners. 0:55:57.160 --> 0:55:58.840 And he said, he. 0:55:58.880 --> 0:56:02.600 Said, get a bucket more. No, you didn't need to 0:56:02.600 --> 0:56:08.520 say that, you've gone too far. Say sorry. So he 0:56:08.600 --> 0:56:13.399 gets called into the warden's office and he as soon 0:56:13.440 --> 0:56:15.880 as he was in there and he was alone with 0:56:15.960 --> 0:56:19.719 the warden, he spilled on his belief that Perry and 0:56:19.920 --> 0:56:24.759 Dick could have been the killers. He said, he remembered 0:56:24.920 --> 0:56:30.359 Herb Cutter Clutter paying him for a job. So sorry, 0:56:30.400 --> 0:56:31.960 this is what he said to the warden that he 0:56:32.080 --> 0:56:36.000 had said to Dick that he remembered Herb Clutter paying 0:56:36.080 --> 0:56:38.520 him for a job with a large wad of cash 0:56:38.640 --> 0:56:41.920 that had come from a safe. He said he remembered 0:56:41.960 --> 0:56:45.480 Herb saying that he'd been paid ten thousand dollars that day, 0:56:46.040 --> 0:56:49.000 so assumed that that cash was in the safe as well, 0:56:50.280 --> 0:56:52.800 and that he described where the safe was and the 0:56:52.920 --> 0:56:57.160 farm to Dick. Now, what is interesting here is that 0:56:58.200 --> 0:57:00.640 he never was paid in cash. He never saw a 0:57:00.719 --> 0:57:04.080 safe in the Clutter farm, So whether his memories were 0:57:04.160 --> 0:57:06.520 mixed up. Remember how he said as well. The office 0:57:06.640 --> 0:57:10.719 was really like the yeah, yeah, And there was never 0:57:10.920 --> 0:57:14.359 a safe in the Clutter family farm never. So it's 0:57:14.480 --> 0:57:18.160 like he's got the memories of two different stories, two 0:57:18.240 --> 0:57:20.960 different times of being paid by someone contract. 0:57:21.760 --> 0:57:24.160 Yeah, especially when he knew that when he worked for them. 0:57:24.200 --> 0:57:25.000 It's very weird to get here. 0:57:25.080 --> 0:57:25.240 Yeah. 0:57:25.240 --> 0:57:26.800 But then like he worked there for a few months, 0:57:26.840 --> 0:57:29.360 but he worked other places in the years following as well. 0:57:29.440 --> 0:57:31.520 It's like he's got those two stories mixed up. And 0:57:31.640 --> 0:57:34.000 there were like they went back and found the check 0:57:34.040 --> 0:57:36.919 stubs that he'd been paid by Herb Clutter with a check. 0:57:37.800 --> 0:57:39.720 So he's got these two stories mixed up. I don't 0:57:39.720 --> 0:57:41.640 know fluyd Well's background. I don't know if he was, 0:57:41.720 --> 0:57:45.280 you know, a bit fifty cent short of a dollar 0:57:45.800 --> 0:57:48.440 or drug fucked or something. I don't know, But for 0:57:48.560 --> 0:57:51.680 whatever reason, he was adamant that Herb Clutter had paid 0:57:51.720 --> 0:57:55.040 him ten thousand, sorry, had put him to this, had 0:57:55.080 --> 0:57:57.320 paid him in cash that he remembered it coming from 0:57:57.320 --> 0:57:59.200 a safe that was behind a desk in the office. 0:57:59.400 --> 0:58:02.160 But when he described the office and the farm, it 0:58:02.360 --> 0:58:05.160 was exactly as the like it was. The location of 0:58:05.200 --> 0:58:08.800 the office was where I said it would be that's bizarre. 0:58:09.160 --> 0:58:15.240 Yes, our purpurpur Pur. Purpose trying to to the kids again. 0:58:17.040 --> 0:58:18.040 Is that it is that what they do. 0:58:19.520 --> 0:58:29.560 Like skid skid ok. Yeah, something like that. Yeah, that's 0:58:29.920 --> 0:58:30.280 not that what. 0:58:34.520 --> 0:58:41.840 Yes, queen, yes, queen, Yes, hunting and also yeat, I'm 0:58:41.880 --> 0:58:54.160 gonna here, young Cole loll out loud loud. Sorry. This 0:58:54.360 --> 0:58:56.080 is a quote from Floyd Wells. 0:58:56.640 --> 0:58:57.440 To the warden. 0:58:58.320 --> 0:59:01.240 I suspect I talked too much about the money, mister 0:59:01.280 --> 0:59:05.479 clutter had. Hikkock talked a lot about Perry Smith said 0:59:05.560 --> 0:59:07.439 after they got out of the joint, they could pull 0:59:07.520 --> 0:59:09.680 some jobs to get enough money for a down payment 0:59:09.720 --> 0:59:12.840 on a boat. They would run charter services for deep 0:59:12.880 --> 0:59:16.040 sea fishermen and eventually make contacts and use the boat 0:59:16.120 --> 0:59:19.760 to bring in narcotics. I didn't believe Hikkock, but he 0:59:19.880 --> 0:59:22.720 kept talking about it. I tried to talk him out 0:59:22.760 --> 0:59:25.280 of it, said he would get caught, but he said 0:59:25.320 --> 0:59:28.840 he had a plan and after the robbery he would 0:59:28.920 --> 0:59:31.120 kill everyone there and leave no witnesses. 0:59:31.280 --> 0:59:31.960 Oh my god. 0:59:33.000 --> 0:59:39.440 So he'd said that in jail. So all thoughts we 0:59:39.560 --> 0:59:44.200 might have had speculation about whether what went wrong. I 0:59:44.280 --> 0:59:46.760 mean they went in with a hunting knife and a gun. 0:59:47.200 --> 0:59:49.720 There was all this thing saying, remember how Dick had 0:59:49.720 --> 0:59:51.960 said earlier, you know, why would you do what? You know, 0:59:52.080 --> 0:59:55.720 we said we were coming here to do all that. Yeah, yeah, 0:59:56.440 --> 0:59:59.040 it sounds like they had planned to do this all along. Absolutely, 1:00:00.120 --> 1:00:04.120 So the KBI finally had the names of two suspects. 1:00:05.520 --> 1:00:08.520 While this investigation was going on, Dick and Berry were 1:00:08.560 --> 1:00:12.400 on the run. They drove to Mexico, they pawned the 1:00:12.480 --> 1:00:15.960 binoculars and the radio that they'd stolen. They stole more 1:00:16.080 --> 1:00:19.320 cars along the way so they couldn't be traced. They 1:00:19.400 --> 1:00:24.000 committed thefts and then eventually came back to the US 1:00:24.200 --> 1:00:27.120 so they could also forge checks. They kind of run 1:00:27.160 --> 1:00:30.240 out of money in Mexico and to do that. Yep, 1:00:30.520 --> 1:00:34.880 So they kept stealing cars, ditching, stealing, forging checks, buying 1:00:34.960 --> 1:00:38.880 things like suits, like fancy things, anything that they could. 1:00:39.280 --> 1:00:41.800 They kept in touch with their family via payphones, but 1:00:41.920 --> 1:00:45.680 always lying about where they were. All the while police 1:00:45.720 --> 1:00:50.479 were launching a massive, large scale manhunt. They went into 1:00:50.600 --> 1:00:53.240 these men's criminal records and were able to use these 1:00:53.320 --> 1:00:56.880 to find and talk to family members and former criminal 1:00:56.920 --> 1:01:01.400 associates to try to track down their movements. On December nine, 1:01:02.000 --> 1:01:06.160 so remember November fifteen, I mean overnight between November fourteen 1:01:06.200 --> 1:01:08.480 and fifteen is when the murders occurred. On December nine, 1:01:09.320 --> 1:01:15.720 police got a warrant to search Dick. He got hiccups, 1:01:15.720 --> 1:01:21.040 as they said, that was like a thwack, like the 1:01:21.080 --> 1:01:23.400 on the matter paya where you the noise sounds like 1:01:23.480 --> 1:01:29.080 what you're saying. No, don't say that word again that 1:01:30.960 --> 1:01:32.880 you're going to say it. I can feel it. You're 1:01:32.880 --> 1:01:37.640 going to just throw it out there. I don't don't 1:01:37.680 --> 1:01:41.720 desecrat Claudia's cat stickers by saying that yucky word. 1:01:42.520 --> 1:01:42.800 Thank you. 1:01:44.120 --> 1:01:46.480 So they got a warrant to search Dick Hiccock's or 1:01:46.520 --> 1:01:51.120 Hiccup's family farm, and there they found the hunting knife 1:01:51.560 --> 1:01:55.240 used to slit herb Clutter's throat and the shotgun used 1:01:55.360 --> 1:01:59.640 to kill all four members. But they didn't find was 1:01:59.720 --> 1:02:05.000 the man. They were not there. On December thirty, police 1:02:05.080 --> 1:02:07.920 in Las Vegas spotted a car that had been reported 1:02:07.960 --> 1:02:10.720 as stolen a few days earlier. On they pulled it 1:02:10.840 --> 1:02:13.880 over routine and he's a stolen cars pull these guys 1:02:13.920 --> 1:02:16.120 over and asked them about the car, and they could 1:02:16.160 --> 1:02:19.280 not believe their eyes when in the car they saw 1:02:19.800 --> 1:02:23.960 the two men whose mugshots had been plastered everywhere as 1:02:24.040 --> 1:02:27.520 the men wanted over the Clutter family murders in Kansas 1:02:27.680 --> 1:02:28.880 six weeks earlier. 1:02:30.680 --> 1:02:34.200 It's such a like a lucky happens happenstance, Like he's 1:02:34.240 --> 1:02:37.360 just like wow, like pulling them over and realizing and 1:02:37.520 --> 1:02:39.360 not just letting them go like they happen. 1:02:39.520 --> 1:02:41.440 How often do you hear about things like that as well? 1:02:41.520 --> 1:02:43.520 The police department's not communicating to each other. 1:02:43.640 --> 1:02:46.560 And then because this was such a big and like 1:02:46.640 --> 1:02:48.960 that would have happened if this story hadn't become such 1:02:48.960 --> 1:02:51.000 a immertional news because it was a family in this 1:02:51.080 --> 1:02:54.720 small tech following down and everything. So Perry Smith and 1:02:54.800 --> 1:03:00.000 Dick Hickock were arrested without incident. Surprisingly, they were transferred 1:03:00.120 --> 1:03:02.920 back to Finley County in Kansas, and they would charged 1:03:03.040 --> 1:03:08.080 with four counts of murder. The media called them weak faced, 1:03:08.160 --> 1:03:09.920 Hiccock and runty Smith. 1:03:10.280 --> 1:03:11.320 Wow, what names? 1:03:11.400 --> 1:03:13.959 I just think it's so it's like so nineteen fifty. Yeah, 1:03:14.400 --> 1:03:18.720 it's like really cute. So personally yeah exactly, and like 1:03:19.160 --> 1:03:23.160 they're kind of cute, yes, yeah, like you know, weak 1:03:23.280 --> 1:03:25.680 faced and runty. Like these days we kind of go 1:03:25.800 --> 1:03:27.640 that's like, oh, that's cute to you that, but I 1:03:27.760 --> 1:03:30.280 love you, right, it's personal meany to be going. 1:03:30.600 --> 1:03:31.320 We're not just going to. 1:03:31.320 --> 1:03:37.600 Call him yeah face tco yeah yeah yeah. Now, when arrested, 1:03:37.760 --> 1:03:40.160 Dick immediately tried to pin the whole thing on Perry. 1:03:40.400 --> 1:03:40.680 Wow. 1:03:41.600 --> 1:03:44.960 But they both did admit to being there and carrying 1:03:44.960 --> 1:03:47.040 out the murders. Like they never tried to say it 1:03:47.200 --> 1:03:48.160 wasn't ass we weren't there. 1:03:48.320 --> 1:03:48.560 Sure. 1:03:50.200 --> 1:03:54.000 Perry said that he like they broke pretty quickly, and 1:03:54.160 --> 1:03:56.360 Perry said that he had killed two of the family 1:03:56.400 --> 1:03:59.320 members and Dick had killed two. Dick said Perry had 1:03:59.400 --> 1:04:01.680 killed them all, and that he had planned the whole thing, 1:04:01.880 --> 1:04:05.320 that Perry had planned the whole thing. Now, they wanted 1:04:05.360 --> 1:04:07.600 to be tried separately so they could kind of pin 1:04:07.680 --> 1:04:10.920 it on each other, but that was denied. They were 1:04:10.960 --> 1:04:14.520 both charged with murders no matter who pulled the triggers 1:04:14.560 --> 1:04:17.680 on the day. Their joint trial was scheduled for March 1:04:17.800 --> 1:04:21.040 twenty two, nineteen sixty, which is like so quick, like 1:04:21.120 --> 1:04:25.040 you think of out the courts ago years, you know, it. 1:04:25.120 --> 1:04:26.800 Was drags and drags and drags. 1:04:27.080 --> 1:04:29.720 Yeah, this is March from like that. It was December 1:04:29.800 --> 1:04:32.360 thirty that they were arrested. Their trial was scheduled for March. 1:04:32.680 --> 1:04:32.960 Wow. 1:04:35.080 --> 1:04:37.720 They were placed in different cells while they awaited their 1:04:37.760 --> 1:04:39.760 trial so that they couldn't, you know, collude. 1:04:42.200 --> 1:04:44.800 And the. 1:04:46.440 --> 1:04:49.960 Unit that Perry was housed in was called the ladies unit. Oh, 1:04:50.400 --> 1:04:52.960 I don't think. I think there weren't women in the prison, 1:04:53.040 --> 1:04:54.440 but like it was a part of the prison that 1:04:54.600 --> 1:04:55.440 was four women. 1:04:58.280 --> 1:04:59.880 Maybe one bit was overcrowded or something. 1:05:00.120 --> 1:05:05.200 Yeah, And this unit was directly next door, like sharing 1:05:05.280 --> 1:05:12.560 internal walls with the county courthouse, and the sheriff at 1:05:12.600 --> 1:05:16.720 the time had residents at the courthouse, right. It was 1:05:16.800 --> 1:05:21.120 actually the sheriff, L Robinson, who he met earlier, had 1:05:21.160 --> 1:05:22.800 his own house in Holcombe. So he's like, I don't 1:05:22.800 --> 1:05:25.160 need that place. So my second in charge, like the 1:05:25.360 --> 1:05:28.360 under sheriff, the deputy sheriff, and his wife lived them. 1:05:28.560 --> 1:05:31.720 His name was Wendell, his wife's name was Josephine, and 1:05:31.760 --> 1:05:33.440 they lived there, and so they were literally sharing a 1:05:33.560 --> 1:05:36.120 wall with this unit that Perry Smith was in. She 1:05:36.240 --> 1:05:40.000 would go and kind of visit the prisoners often, Josephine would, 1:05:40.440 --> 1:05:44.160 and she took a real liking to Perry Smith. She 1:05:44.280 --> 1:05:46.840 felt sorry for him and thought that he was a 1:05:46.880 --> 1:05:50.000 really kind man at heart who'd been caught up in 1:05:50.480 --> 1:05:51.760 a mess and a life of crime. 1:05:52.120 --> 1:05:54.760 Behavior, you know, in the on the night was very strange, 1:05:55.440 --> 1:05:58.400 isn't it. Very caring and compassionate. Weirdly. Yeah. 1:05:59.840 --> 1:06:02.680 She would regularly make him lunch and take it and 1:06:02.800 --> 1:06:05.760 eat turkey sandwiches with the crusts cut off with him 1:06:05.800 --> 1:06:09.600 in his cell. He wrote about this a lot in 1:06:09.720 --> 1:06:13.480 his diaries and about his the kindness she showed, and 1:06:14.240 --> 1:06:16.840 it was kind of almost has been speculated a bit 1:06:16.880 --> 1:06:18.440 whether there was a bit of a relationship or something 1:06:18.480 --> 1:06:22.680 going on, or maybe kind of Perry felt love for her. Now. 1:06:22.760 --> 1:06:25.280 Someone else who came and visited him in prison was 1:06:25.440 --> 1:06:27.800 Truman Copodies. We're going to talk about that a bit 1:06:27.880 --> 1:06:31.919 after we've gone through the shoecase. But at the same time, 1:06:32.120 --> 1:06:35.680 an old army friend of Perry's also visited him, and 1:06:35.840 --> 1:06:38.960 he said that Perry spoke about the entire crime and 1:06:39.040 --> 1:06:40.560 the murders in gruesome detail. 1:06:40.720 --> 1:06:41.160 Oh wow. 1:06:41.480 --> 1:06:44.040 He said things like, quote, I saw the man's head 1:06:44.120 --> 1:06:48.160 split apart when I pulled the trigger. So this old 1:06:48.280 --> 1:06:50.440 army friend said Perry did not seem like he had 1:06:50.480 --> 1:06:53.320 any remorse it didn't seem like he'd been caught up 1:06:53.400 --> 1:06:56.320 in this and taken for granted as I taken advantage 1:06:56.360 --> 1:06:59.520 of it, was like this army friend was like, no, 1:06:59.680 --> 1:07:00.360 he's a cold. 1:07:00.200 --> 1:07:02.080 Blood selling accounts of Harry. 1:07:02.240 --> 1:07:05.760 Yes, his sister also wrote him a scathing letter which 1:07:05.800 --> 1:07:09.160 features in cold blood, saying that she hated him and 1:07:09.160 --> 1:07:11.480 wouldn't forgive him. So they were kind of very mixed 1:07:11.520 --> 1:07:14.720 reviews about this guy. And the reason I brought up 1:07:14.720 --> 1:07:18.960 fro him and compoti there is he is very sympathetic 1:07:19.040 --> 1:07:21.200 to us, Harry, and we'll talk about that more later. 1:07:21.240 --> 1:07:25.600 So real conflicting reviews. Dick, on the other hand, his 1:07:25.840 --> 1:07:28.640 family were the only ones that on his side. Everyone 1:07:28.720 --> 1:07:31.760 spoke about him as a callous, cold blooded, horrible guy. 1:07:32.240 --> 1:07:35.920 His family stood by him through everything. They said. They 1:07:35.960 --> 1:07:38.480 were at court every single day for the trial. His 1:07:38.600 --> 1:07:41.320 parents really elderly at that time and really unwell, but 1:07:41.320 --> 1:07:43.240 they went to court every day. They spoke to the 1:07:43.320 --> 1:07:44.960 media they said, our son has told us that he 1:07:45.000 --> 1:07:46.320 didn't do this. We believe him. 1:07:47.280 --> 1:07:49.000 You hear that a lot like There's been some cases 1:07:49.040 --> 1:07:51.760 in Australia recently as well where terrible, terrible things have 1:07:51.840 --> 1:07:54.720 happened and the parents have stuck by them. 1:07:54.880 --> 1:07:58.640 And spoken to the media outside. He's told us his innocence. 1:07:58.720 --> 1:07:59.480 I believe him. 1:08:00.120 --> 1:08:02.960 Yeah, and you go, oh want parents to do course 1:08:03.200 --> 1:08:05.120 of course, And your parents aren't going to believe what 1:08:05.200 --> 1:08:07.360 sort of person you are a lot of the time, 1:08:07.480 --> 1:08:09.280 like you know, they want to believe the best in you, 1:08:09.600 --> 1:08:11.880 so a lot of the time they'll deny all of 1:08:11.920 --> 1:08:14.360 that sort of stuff until you done. Thank you for 1:08:14.440 --> 1:08:17.200 saying that, and also that yeah, this in this case, 1:08:17.280 --> 1:08:19.360 it's like, well, yeah, of course his parents are going 1:08:19.400 --> 1:08:21.639 to go with him and say if they want to know. Yeah, 1:08:21.680 --> 1:08:24.519 it's like what we're talking about, you know, the episode 1:08:24.560 --> 1:08:27.599 with Joe chinque as well, like ours a new singing 1:08:27.640 --> 1:08:30.439 the Killer. Her parents were there all the time, Yeah, 1:08:30.600 --> 1:08:33.479 supporting their kid because they had a reason to believe 1:08:33.520 --> 1:08:38.400 that she was mentally insane when this happened, Like you know, yeah, Now. 1:08:38.360 --> 1:08:41.080 When it came to the trial, both Perry and Dick 1:08:41.240 --> 1:08:43.840 tried to get an insanity defense, which is what it 1:08:43.920 --> 1:08:48.280 was called. Then that's not unity. They were both tested 1:08:48.560 --> 1:08:51.439 and it was found that they were both sane of mind. 1:08:53.800 --> 1:08:56.080 So the trial went ahead as normal, and it was 1:08:56.200 --> 1:08:59.960 fairly normal and fairly uneventful. There was a lot of evidence. 1:09:00.200 --> 1:09:02.960 They both admitted that they were there and that they 1:09:03.080 --> 1:09:05.000 had done it. Kind of they as a whole. 1:09:05.000 --> 1:09:08.960 Yes, not agreeing on who killed who, but exactly yes. Now. 1:09:09.760 --> 1:09:12.840 Dick in particular tried like every kind of hail Mary 1:09:12.960 --> 1:09:14.880 right up to the end. The death penalty was on 1:09:14.960 --> 1:09:17.640 the cards here, and he was really trying to do 1:09:17.720 --> 1:09:20.679 everything not to get that. Sure he was yet pitting 1:09:20.720 --> 1:09:24.360 at all on Perry. He also then tried to say 1:09:24.479 --> 1:09:28.040 that he so the confession that he'd made on his arrest, 1:09:28.120 --> 1:09:29.519 Like when he was saying, yes, I was there and 1:09:29.640 --> 1:09:32.560 we did it, he was saying that that was forceful, 1:09:32.680 --> 1:09:35.880 that that he'd been beaten by police officers. But in 1:09:36.000 --> 1:09:39.559 the days of interviews and everything afterwards, there was never 1:09:39.720 --> 1:09:42.160 any sign of like there was no bruising, there were 1:09:42.200 --> 1:09:44.280 no injuries or anything. So it kind of was seen 1:09:44.320 --> 1:09:46.200 as a bit of it, like he's just hoping for 1:09:46.320 --> 1:09:47.120 the best at the end. 1:09:47.240 --> 1:09:51.920 Sure, Sure, Floyd Wells. 1:09:52.080 --> 1:09:56.320 Gave evidence and ended up admitting to knowing a lot more. 1:09:57.040 --> 1:10:00.200 What was his evidence at the start that he he 1:10:00.640 --> 1:10:01.719 told them, Okay. 1:10:01.840 --> 1:10:03.720 A family I used to work for that lived at 1:10:03.760 --> 1:10:06.519 this farm with this name had a cash with ten 1:10:06.600 --> 1:10:11.320 thousand dollars, Yes, dollars cash. But when he gave trial 1:10:11.560 --> 1:10:15.439 evidence a trial, he admitted he had actually drawn a 1:10:15.560 --> 1:10:19.760 complete diagram of the class of farm for Dick right, 1:10:20.640 --> 1:10:23.360 and said he and Dick had actually spoken about the 1:10:23.479 --> 1:10:25.479 fact that Dick was going to go and steal the 1:10:25.560 --> 1:10:28.880 money and that he would take a cut of it 1:10:28.920 --> 1:10:32.040 when he got out. For giving him all this evidence. Now, 1:10:32.160 --> 1:10:34.560 Dick said that this was all lies. He said, no, 1:10:34.960 --> 1:10:38.000 that never happened. I never said this again. It seemed 1:10:38.040 --> 1:10:39.840 like a bit of a you know, clutching at straws 1:10:39.880 --> 1:10:41.599 at the end, I say, no, no, no, that's all 1:10:41.640 --> 1:10:41.920 a lie. 1:10:42.040 --> 1:10:43.000 Yeah, yeah, it wasn't that. 1:10:44.439 --> 1:10:46.559 Dick continued to pay to say it was Perry who 1:10:46.680 --> 1:10:50.000 killed all four family members. Perry had initially said they 1:10:50.040 --> 1:10:54.000 did two they killed two people each, and during the 1:10:54.160 --> 1:10:58.519 trial actually tried to recant that. So Perry tried to 1:10:58.600 --> 1:11:03.800 recant that it was after Dick's parents spoke in the 1:11:03.960 --> 1:11:07.599 media about believing their son and saying that they were 1:11:07.640 --> 1:11:10.400 going to stand by him and believe him. That's when 1:11:10.520 --> 1:11:13.439 Perry then turned around and said, I want to change 1:11:14.240 --> 1:11:19.160 my original testimony that I killed to and Dick killed two. 1:11:19.720 --> 1:11:21.240 Yes, and he ended up. 1:11:21.240 --> 1:11:25.200 Saying I killed all four of them. Wow, here's another 1:11:25.280 --> 1:11:28.600 little insight into Perry's what I'm going to call compassion 1:11:28.720 --> 1:11:31.880 for want of a better term, This actually is one bit. 1:11:32.120 --> 1:11:34.559 I don't have any sympathy or compassion for Perry. I'm 1:11:34.560 --> 1:11:36.280 going to get that out there. This is the only 1:11:36.360 --> 1:11:39.479 bit that makes me feel a bit sad. Yeah, it's 1:11:39.560 --> 1:11:43.240 like he's gone. This man has a family who loves him. I'm, 1:11:43.680 --> 1:11:46.160 you know, feel so I don't have that. If he's 1:11:46.200 --> 1:11:47.880 got a family that loves him, I don't want his 1:11:48.040 --> 1:11:50.519 parents to think he's done this. I'll take the blame. 1:11:51.520 --> 1:11:54.080 That actually does make me feel a bit sad. He's 1:11:54.120 --> 1:11:56.599 had such a horrible upbringing and there's something in him 1:11:56.640 --> 1:11:58.679 that goes off. This man's got a family who believes 1:11:58.720 --> 1:11:59.640 in him. I want to give his. 1:11:59.680 --> 1:12:01.880 Family that that peace of mind. Yeah. 1:12:04.120 --> 1:12:06.840 However, the judge said, no, you can't recount that. You've 1:12:06.920 --> 1:12:09.640 given that evidence and you've given that testimony. So no, 1:12:11.040 --> 1:12:14.120 and it would have mattered in the end anyway. Both 1:12:14.280 --> 1:12:19.519 Perry Smith and Richard were found guilty and ordered to 1:12:19.600 --> 1:12:23.439 death by hanging on April fourteen, at nineteen sixty five 1:12:23.760 --> 1:12:26.040 so that's when the date of the hanging would be, 1:12:26.400 --> 1:12:28.280 so they would spend five years on death. 1:12:31.680 --> 1:12:33.000 I don't know why they do that. I don't know 1:12:33.080 --> 1:12:33.639 why they. 1:12:35.080 --> 1:12:35.120 No. 1:12:35.200 --> 1:12:37.160 I remember we had someone write in about it. They 1:12:37.240 --> 1:12:39.600 saying there's lots of for the avenues of appeal to 1:12:39.720 --> 1:12:43.960 take time, any other evidence comes up. There's a lot 1:12:44.040 --> 1:12:47.800 of places that fight against the death penalty. So yeah, 1:12:47.840 --> 1:12:49.080 there's lots of reasons that it. 1:12:49.640 --> 1:12:50.519 Yeh a long time. 1:12:51.000 --> 1:12:59.920 Apparently at their executions, Perry Smith used his final word 1:13:00.200 --> 1:13:04.720 to condemn capital punishment. His final words were, I think 1:13:04.760 --> 1:13:06.559 it is a hell of a thing that a life 1:13:06.600 --> 1:13:09.640 has to be taken in this manner. I say this 1:13:09.840 --> 1:13:12.880 especially because there's a great deal I could have offered society. 1:13:13.720 --> 1:13:17.120 I certainly think capital punishment is legally and morally wrong. 1:13:18.360 --> 1:13:21.120 That's a wild thing to say after you've murdered four people. 1:13:21.120 --> 1:13:26.720 Including two children. Yep, yeah, Richard Hickock said it's his 1:13:26.840 --> 1:13:30.320 final words. I don't have any hard feelings. You're sending 1:13:30.360 --> 1:13:31.240 me to a better place. 1:13:32.040 --> 1:13:33.840 Oh well, yeah, yeah. 1:13:35.560 --> 1:13:38.960 The last sentence of Truman Capote's in Cold Blood, I 1:13:39.080 --> 1:13:45.000 think puts the deaths of Perry and Dick by hanging 1:13:45.240 --> 1:13:48.920 really well. The final sentence of the book says, at 1:13:48.960 --> 1:13:52.120 the time, not a soul in sleeping Holcombe heard them 1:13:52.680 --> 1:13:58.360 four gunshot blasts that all told ended six human lives. Yeah. 1:13:58.880 --> 1:14:03.479 Yeah, beautifully worded for you know, just the most beautiful writer. 1:14:04.160 --> 1:14:09.200 So that's Helen. You just desperately hope Helen, Helen Ganna 1:14:09.280 --> 1:14:10.200 is going to listen to this one. 1:14:10.240 --> 1:14:10.680 I don't care. 1:14:11.080 --> 1:14:12.559 Realize you love her. 1:14:12.680 --> 1:14:13.400 I don't care if she does. 1:14:13.439 --> 1:14:16.200 You're looking right into the carry, you creep. You're going 1:14:16.280 --> 1:14:19.080 to hope she hears it, realize you love her and 1:14:19.439 --> 1:14:23.280 leaves her husband and her family. How do you know that? 1:14:23.439 --> 1:14:25.600 Because I looked at Helen Ganna stop. 1:14:25.640 --> 1:14:34.360 Dead panning the camera, marry Helen Ganner. I think she's 1:14:34.400 --> 1:14:35.519 above your age bracket. 1:14:36.920 --> 1:14:40.240 Sure, let's talk about age. Then I brought it up. 1:14:40.560 --> 1:14:41.760 I don't have anything more to say on the mat. 1:14:43.479 --> 1:14:46.439 I think I think that the the the way that 1:14:46.520 --> 1:14:50.360 Triman Capoti sums that up is it's such a beautifully 1:14:50.439 --> 1:14:54.800 put ending for the tragic loss of four lives. You 1:14:55.080 --> 1:14:57.839 could say the tragic loss of six, but the tragic 1:14:57.960 --> 1:15:01.720 loss of four lives. Yes, and he is beautifully beautifully 1:15:01.760 --> 1:15:02.639 worded in that way. 1:15:02.960 --> 1:15:06.559 This brings us into a bit of discussion around Truman 1:15:06.600 --> 1:15:08.040 Coppoti his involvement. 1:15:08.960 --> 1:15:09.160 Yeah. 1:15:09.360 --> 1:15:12.840 Story Again, we won't go into it too much because 1:15:12.840 --> 1:15:14.839 while we are up and coming. 1:15:14.640 --> 1:15:17.040 Book talk star, Yes, we are up and coming book talks. 1:15:17.280 --> 1:15:20.320 This is a true crime podcast, not a book talk podcast. 1:15:20.439 --> 1:15:21.400 That one's coming later. 1:15:21.640 --> 1:15:23.160 Yes, of course it is. And you better get a 1:15:23.320 --> 1:15:24.479 bucket and a mob. 1:15:25.160 --> 1:15:26.439 Saying that don't see that. 1:15:26.560 --> 1:15:27.400 It was good. 1:15:28.880 --> 1:15:32.479 So, as I said right back in the intro, Truman 1:15:32.520 --> 1:15:36.280 Compote decided he wanted to write a non fiction novel. Yes, yep, 1:15:36.760 --> 1:15:38.879 And he went to Kansas. 1:15:39.840 --> 1:15:40.040 Yeah. 1:15:40.160 --> 1:15:43.960 Four Perry and Dick wea court, so when it was 1:15:44.000 --> 1:15:46.439 still an active, you know, murder case. 1:15:46.600 --> 1:15:49.639 Yeah, he was quite early, yes, and then he ended up. 1:15:49.600 --> 1:15:52.240 Staying there for it took him six years to write 1:15:52.240 --> 1:15:55.360 the book because there was the year leading up to it, 1:15:55.479 --> 1:15:57.800 the trial, everything, and then five years on death row. 1:15:57.880 --> 1:15:59.920 And he was adamant he wasn't going to finish the 1:16:00.040 --> 1:16:02.760 book until the story was finished, and that to him 1:16:03.120 --> 1:16:07.320 was the end of the lives of Dick and Perry. Now, 1:16:08.280 --> 1:16:11.960 he obviously spent a lot of time in the community. 1:16:12.120 --> 1:16:14.120 There is a lot in the book that speaks about 1:16:14.160 --> 1:16:17.360 the community. He interviews lots of different people who live there. 1:16:17.400 --> 1:16:19.200 And when I say he interviews, like, it doesn't read 1:16:19.360 --> 1:16:22.559 like an interview with He writes it, you know, beautiful, 1:16:22.560 --> 1:16:26.800 beautiful prose about you know, the conversations he had with people. 1:16:26.840 --> 1:16:28.600 But it's not like she said this and I said this. 1:16:28.880 --> 1:16:31.640 He says, like, the way it's written is you know, 1:16:31.880 --> 1:16:35.160 talking about that as Susan Well, I think his sur 1:16:35.240 --> 1:16:37.880 name was the friend. He'll tell her story, but we 1:16:38.040 --> 1:16:41.560 know it's through the words of him having interviewed her. Interestingly, 1:16:41.600 --> 1:16:43.160 the book is written in a way that it does 1:16:43.280 --> 1:16:46.400 just read like a novel. You're not. He never says like, 1:16:46.680 --> 1:16:50.479 I was there an idea. We know because Truman Copoti 1:16:50.520 --> 1:16:52.800 wrote it that it's from his interviews that everything's taken. 1:16:52.920 --> 1:16:55.879 But it's not. It's not in third person or anything. 1:16:55.640 --> 1:16:55.800 You know. 1:16:58.600 --> 1:17:00.840 So he's gone through all of Perry his diaries, he's 1:17:00.840 --> 1:17:03.040 seen all the letters that they've each got in and 1:17:03.120 --> 1:17:08.200 out of prison. He himself became very close with Perry Smith. 1:17:08.560 --> 1:17:12.639 Now this is something that is more known from Truman 1:17:12.680 --> 1:17:16.160 Coupoti rather than is spoken about in the book. 1:17:16.400 --> 1:17:18.120 It was a bit of speculation, and I think you 1:17:18.240 --> 1:17:19.840 can suddenly. 1:17:19.560 --> 1:17:24.200 Read into yes, I believe, not subtly. Yeah, okay, I think. 1:17:25.000 --> 1:17:27.800 And it's even interesting in researching the story, like and 1:17:28.000 --> 1:17:30.240 you know, kind of reading different articles and listening to 1:17:30.320 --> 1:17:35.599 different podcasts and stuff about this. I've written my script 1:17:35.720 --> 1:17:39.080 today that in a way that I believe is more 1:17:39.280 --> 1:17:42.000 these are the facts of what it happened, absolutely, whereas 1:17:42.080 --> 1:17:44.240 a lot of the way that it's spoken about is 1:17:44.439 --> 1:17:48.479 you know, and Perry was really you know, pulled along 1:17:48.600 --> 1:17:50.880 by Dick, and he didn't want to be there, but 1:17:51.040 --> 1:17:55.320 he was impressionable and young. I believe personally that that 1:17:55.600 --> 1:17:59.719 comes from Truman Capote's writing of Perry. Yes, because Truman 1:18:00.080 --> 1:18:03.080 Hoti was sympathetic and empathetic towards Perry. 1:18:03.280 --> 1:18:04.320 Yes, I am not. 1:18:04.600 --> 1:18:09.880 He murdered for innocent people. Again, Truman Capodi doesn't write 1:18:10.120 --> 1:18:14.120 in the book that he is sympathetic and empathetic towards him. 1:18:14.120 --> 1:18:17.240 He doesn't, but the way he writes about Perry compared 1:18:17.240 --> 1:18:20.120 to how he writes about Dick is very obvious bias 1:18:20.240 --> 1:18:26.439 in my opinion. I yes, again for the kids, beautiful 1:18:26.439 --> 1:18:28.640 pronunciation of h By the way, I'm really proud of you. 1:18:28.840 --> 1:18:32.240 I'm really proud of you. There's quite a lot of 1:18:32.280 --> 1:18:35.479 speculation that Truman Compodi was actually in love with Perry. 1:18:35.680 --> 1:18:37.960 Yes, yeah, it's quite a lot spoken about in their 1:18:38.000 --> 1:18:40.439 film Capodi. There's quite a Yeah, that's quite a part 1:18:40.479 --> 1:18:40.600 of it. 1:18:40.720 --> 1:18:44.720 Yeah, And I think as a reader of just my 1:18:44.800 --> 1:18:47.080 opinion of that is that that comes through quite strongly. 1:18:47.160 --> 1:18:51.400 I think he's very sympathetic towards him and you know personally, 1:18:51.439 --> 1:18:53.719 but I mean we speak about this on the podcast 1:18:53.760 --> 1:18:57.000 a lot as well. I'm less I find less sympathy 1:18:57.080 --> 1:19:01.360 in talking about killers and stuff then often you do. 1:19:02.200 --> 1:19:05.439 And I think that's again interestingly, you're reading Helen Garner's 1:19:05.479 --> 1:19:08.439 books like you understood a little bit of the sympathy 1:19:08.479 --> 1:19:11.080 towards Robert Farquherson. Stop looking at the camera every time 1:19:11.080 --> 1:19:15.120 we talk about Helen Garner, you mean, really weird you 1:19:15.160 --> 1:19:21.439 reckon Helen Garner's No, I'm not going to finish that sentence. Yeah, 1:19:22.200 --> 1:19:27.240 you after reading Helen's book This House of Grief, You've 1:19:27.600 --> 1:19:32.080 found yourself kind of going, oh, I can understand someone 1:19:32.160 --> 1:19:36.519 having a little bit more empathy towards Robert Farkuerson. Yes 1:19:36.680 --> 1:19:40.280 than I understood before. Yes, However, me reading in Cold 1:19:40.320 --> 1:19:43.240 Blood has not made me feel more empathy towards Perry Smith, 1:19:43.439 --> 1:19:45.479 I think probably while reading, and I did. But then 1:19:45.479 --> 1:19:48.160 I've taken myself out and I've gone, no, this is 1:19:48.240 --> 1:19:50.200 a biased account of what happened. 1:19:51.280 --> 1:19:51.920 I'm going to bend it. 1:19:52.160 --> 1:19:53.559 Well, of course, yeah, exactly. 1:19:54.840 --> 1:19:55.000 Yeah. 1:19:55.080 --> 1:19:57.280 Treuman Compote ha spent a lot of time with Perry Smith, 1:19:57.800 --> 1:20:00.880 like literally in his prison cell for years, and not 1:20:01.160 --> 1:20:03.080 just up until the trial, but for the five years 1:20:03.120 --> 1:20:04.920 on death row afterwards. It became very close and he 1:20:04.960 --> 1:20:07.080 knew him very well, and I think he writes about 1:20:07.120 --> 1:20:09.400 him really quite biased. 1:20:09.560 --> 1:20:09.760 Yeap. 1:20:10.720 --> 1:20:11.920 Now, I said I was going to bring up the 1:20:12.000 --> 1:20:16.639 sisters as well. That and Beverly. They are not mentioned 1:20:16.680 --> 1:20:19.360 in the book. They're obviously trim Commodites, obviously not interviewed. 1:20:19.400 --> 1:20:20.439 That they did not want to be a part of it. 1:20:20.720 --> 1:20:22.200 They didn't want to be part of it. And there 1:20:22.320 --> 1:20:24.920 is really an ethical and kind of moral thing there 1:20:25.040 --> 1:20:28.040 about you know, this is their family story, and Triman 1:20:28.040 --> 1:20:29.160 Commodis very much made it his. 1:20:29.840 --> 1:20:30.000 Yes. 1:20:30.320 --> 1:20:32.280 Yeah, However, you look at the other side of that 1:20:32.360 --> 1:20:34.320 and go, well, the reason we're still talking about it 1:20:34.400 --> 1:20:36.800 in twenty twenty six, which some people can say is 1:20:36.800 --> 1:20:38.800 a good thing and others not. But I think we're, 1:20:38.920 --> 1:20:42.439 you know, remembering the lives of these four innocent people. 1:20:42.840 --> 1:20:44.960 That's because Truman Commoditi wrote about it. I'm sure we 1:20:45.000 --> 1:20:47.519 probably wouldn't know about it otherwise, right, or just one 1:20:47.560 --> 1:20:51.120 of those small town murders. Maybe we would have done 1:20:51.280 --> 1:20:53.080 six years down the road in this podcast when we're 1:20:53.120 --> 1:20:59.040 looking for more stories. But yeah, I Evianna and Beverly 1:20:59.080 --> 1:21:01.840 didn't want to be part of Trim Coboddy's story, and 1:21:01.960 --> 1:21:03.960 I think that's quite unfair on them that their family's 1:21:03.960 --> 1:21:08.360 story has been told so widely. There was a lot 1:21:08.439 --> 1:21:12.120 of backlash against the book from the Garden City community 1:21:12.800 --> 1:21:16.880 because Truman Cobody had come in as like he stood 1:21:17.160 --> 1:21:19.920 out like a sour far. Of course, he is high 1:21:20.160 --> 1:21:23.880 society in New York. He's got that odd voice and 1:21:24.040 --> 1:21:27.640 openly gay man in the fifties and Kansas was not 1:21:27.960 --> 1:21:31.920 like that. No, holcome was not like that. He spoke 1:21:32.000 --> 1:21:35.559 to everyone in the community, people gave him time and everything, 1:21:35.720 --> 1:21:37.960 and he assured them that it was going to be 1:21:38.000 --> 1:21:40.800 a factual telling of what happened, and a lot of 1:21:40.880 --> 1:21:43.320 people said that it didn't really come across like that 1:21:43.920 --> 1:21:45.760 to them. So there was a lot of backlash that was. 1:21:45.840 --> 1:21:48.200 It's really a lot of people hate the book. A 1:21:48.240 --> 1:21:49.840 lot of like especially at the time, a lot of 1:21:49.880 --> 1:21:53.960 people loved it, certainly critically acclaimed. You know, to this day, 1:21:54.040 --> 1:21:56.559 I'm here saying it's one of my favorite books John 1:21:56.680 --> 1:22:00.679 Ronson's and it was one of his. Yeah, so that's 1:22:00.760 --> 1:22:03.920 my NonStop rant for you. Anything it is. 1:22:04.000 --> 1:22:06.360 I think it is an amazing book as it is. 1:22:06.600 --> 1:22:09.000 I mean, any book that you read, like whether it's 1:22:09.040 --> 1:22:12.679 a John Ronson, whether it's a John Saffrain or Helen Ghana, 1:22:12.800 --> 1:22:18.600 whatever it is, they're going to put themselves ye documentary, ementary. 1:22:18.160 --> 1:22:20.439 It's the same thing kind of like taking put himself 1:22:20.479 --> 1:22:21.080 in the story. 1:22:20.840 --> 1:22:22.360 And Louis through if you're going to go from like, 1:22:22.479 --> 1:22:25.840 you know, a documentary maker. But as writers of like 1:22:26.040 --> 1:22:29.880 true crime, they always put themselves in the story and 1:22:29.960 --> 1:22:32.519 it's their connection, it's their human story that they're telling. 1:22:32.720 --> 1:22:35.720 In cor Blood doesn't really not in the same way 1:22:35.840 --> 1:22:39.439 that John ron says and Helen Ghana's Yeah, yeah, they'll 1:22:39.479 --> 1:22:43.760 actually say like exactly, Truman Commodis doesn't do that. It 1:22:43.880 --> 1:22:46.559 is a telling of the story, yeah, from someone who 1:22:46.640 --> 1:22:49.000 was there, but we only know he's there because. 1:22:48.880 --> 1:22:52.200 We know this cood. Yeah, yeah, that he was. No, 1:22:52.760 --> 1:22:54.720 which is you know, I haven't seen the way that 1:22:54.800 --> 1:22:57.680 that book was done. Again, I can't think of it. 1:22:57.920 --> 1:23:00.320 No, we should look into that for our book talk 1:23:00.400 --> 1:23:02.160 that we start book talk. 1:23:02.439 --> 1:23:05.639 But yeah, I don't think I've read a book that's 1:23:05.960 --> 1:23:06.200 like that. 1:23:06.520 --> 1:23:10.000 Again, No, because it is first person without being first. 1:23:09.840 --> 1:23:12.600 Person, yes, which is really interesting because I don't know 1:23:12.680 --> 1:23:15.559 the first person that did it in first person if 1:23:15.600 --> 1:23:17.599 it makes sense, like, I don't know that. I don't 1:23:17.680 --> 1:23:19.200 know who would have. 1:23:19.720 --> 1:23:22.160 Captured that, and could be someone taking the idea from 1:23:22.840 --> 1:23:24.360 and going oh, but I'll use the word I. 1:23:24.880 --> 1:23:29.160 Yes, yeah, which is fascinating. But I think that there 1:23:29.280 --> 1:23:33.479 are opinions in there. Yeah, that's interesting for someone that's 1:23:33.600 --> 1:23:38.040 not written in first person, as I believe this. Yes, 1:23:38.680 --> 1:23:40.720 the way it is written sometimes you go, oh, it's 1:23:40.760 --> 1:23:44.600 written much more like a novel. Yes, yeah, which you 1:23:44.640 --> 1:23:46.160 know you could go, this is a piece of fiction. 1:23:46.800 --> 1:23:48.680 Well yeah, And I think there would be people have 1:23:48.800 --> 1:23:50.840 picked up and read the book thinking, like not knowing 1:23:50.960 --> 1:23:54.760 that just knowing Truman is in Cold Blood is a 1:23:54.800 --> 1:23:56.320 famous book that I've heard of it, you know, the 1:23:56.479 --> 1:24:00.160 Orange Penguin classic book. Yes, there would be people who 1:24:00.200 --> 1:24:02.960 don't know that's actually about a true crime. Truman Compoti 1:24:03.200 --> 1:24:05.720 himself went and like investigate. 1:24:07.320 --> 1:24:10.719 I think I'm going to do James Fray a Million 1:24:11.080 --> 1:24:15.439 Little Pieces soon because that is another book that you 1:24:15.600 --> 1:24:19.559 know was You can go is it a great piece 1:24:19.600 --> 1:24:22.920 of nonfiction or is a great piece of fiction? And 1:24:23.000 --> 1:24:25.360 I think when you look at two things, sometimes you 1:24:25.439 --> 1:24:28.680 get excited when it's when it's true true. Yeah, you 1:24:28.720 --> 1:24:29.439 get more excited. 1:24:29.479 --> 1:24:31.880 And you you're funny with movies and stuff like, you'll 1:24:32.040 --> 1:24:34.479 enjoy a movie more if you think if they say 1:24:34.479 --> 1:24:36.760 it's based on true not more than another movie, but 1:24:36.840 --> 1:24:38.040 more than you otherwise would have it. 1:24:38.160 --> 1:24:40.080 Yeah. It's like if you see like a drama film 1:24:40.120 --> 1:24:42.000 and it happens to be funny, you go, how amazing 1:24:42.080 --> 1:24:43.920 it was funny? As well? Do you see a comedy 1:24:43.920 --> 1:24:48.800 film genres it didn't really it wasn't really that funny. 1:24:49.040 --> 1:24:50.760 I think it's the expectation of what it is. And 1:24:50.800 --> 1:24:54.040 when you when you look at something like this Truman Compodi, 1:24:54.120 --> 1:24:57.280 you go, oh my god, what an amazing writer. I 1:24:57.439 --> 1:25:00.040 think I would have enjoyed it as a book just 1:25:00.160 --> 1:25:03.000 as much if I didn't know that it was a 1:25:03.080 --> 1:25:03.960 true Yeah. 1:25:03.960 --> 1:25:06.160 Whereas I don't know. I can't answer that because I 1:25:06.280 --> 1:25:07.599 know that I read it knowing. 1:25:08.080 --> 1:25:08.800 I even knew. 1:25:09.120 --> 1:25:11.920 I knew about the fact that people thought, well, not 1:25:12.000 --> 1:25:15.080 the fact of the speculation he was in love with 1:25:16.439 --> 1:25:19.120 Perry Smith. I knew all of that going into That's 1:25:19.120 --> 1:25:20.519 why I read it. I knew about that. 1:25:20.720 --> 1:25:21.519 Yeah, So I don't know. 1:25:21.600 --> 1:25:23.200 How I would have found it otherwise, But I just 1:25:23.280 --> 1:25:25.040 I love his writing so beautiful. 1:25:25.240 --> 1:25:28.160 Yeah, yeah, no, it is. It's fascinating just to think 1:25:28.320 --> 1:25:31.000 of would it be as well known if it wasn't 1:25:31.120 --> 1:25:35.800 for no, I don't think no. But then also the 1:25:35.920 --> 1:25:38.719 horror of you know, the surviving members of that family 1:25:38.800 --> 1:25:40.160 that had to live through that and be like, oh 1:25:40.160 --> 1:25:42.120 my god, in cold blood, like they would bring that 1:25:42.320 --> 1:25:44.479 up as a point of reference for the murder that 1:25:44.520 --> 1:25:45.639 took place of their families. 1:25:45.760 --> 1:25:47.679 Yeah, what is it eighty years ago? 1:25:48.000 --> 1:25:52.320 Yeah, maths, maths, and it's still like a really well 1:25:52.400 --> 1:25:53.920 known story today. 1:25:54.160 --> 1:25:56.120 Well there you go, now you know it even better 1:25:56.160 --> 1:25:56.720 than you may have. 1:25:57.120 --> 1:25:59.920 Yeah. Yeah, I didn't know several facts from that after reading, 1:26:00.320 --> 1:26:03.479 So it's like it's interesting, I think for me hearing 1:26:03.600 --> 1:26:08.000 the story as a standalone interesting because it's a lot 1:26:08.080 --> 1:26:09.120 harder think yeah. 1:26:09.280 --> 1:26:10.920 I think all the facts that I've said in. 1:26:11.000 --> 1:26:14.639 This are in the book, but the yeah, they're spread out, yes, yeah. 1:26:14.560 --> 1:26:18.040 They're mixed up and diluted with so many other stories 1:26:18.040 --> 1:26:20.479 and things as well. Yeah, just hearing it is like, 1:26:20.560 --> 1:26:22.080 this is the true crime story, and. 1:26:22.120 --> 1:26:24.000 Of course you know, you also have hearsay, and you 1:26:24.120 --> 1:26:26.280 have people commenting on it, and you have you know, 1:26:26.400 --> 1:26:28.479 three different means. So that's a really interesting part of 1:26:28.520 --> 1:26:30.800 it as well, where I think when you just look 1:26:30.840 --> 1:26:35.559 at a murder as it is a callous, awful, inhuman thing, 1:26:36.040 --> 1:26:37.519 you go, oh, no, this is a this was a 1:26:37.600 --> 1:26:39.000 murder of a family. Yep. 1:26:39.240 --> 1:26:41.880 Yeah, let's not spend five years in a cell with 1:26:42.439 --> 1:26:45.200 turkey sandwiches with the crust cut off. Yes, one of 1:26:45.240 --> 1:26:47.080 the murderers and starts to feel sorry for him, Let's 1:26:47.120 --> 1:26:47.840 talk about the murder. 1:26:48.320 --> 1:26:52.040 Yeah, yeah, which is absolutely fascinating. So do you love? 1:26:52.520 --> 1:26:53.880 Thank you for telling me that the. 1:26:53.960 --> 1:26:55.880 Air condition has been on this whole time, and I 1:26:55.960 --> 1:26:57.840 feel like my blood is a bit cold. 1:27:00.160 --> 1:27:01.320 What in cold blood? 1:27:02.720 --> 1:27:02.840 Oh? 1:27:02.880 --> 1:27:05.639 I thought you said your bladder is a bit cold. Yeah, 1:27:08.479 --> 1:27:12.679 bucket the mop for your bladder. You're leaking bladder. That's 1:27:12.720 --> 1:27:16.280 a funny thing. To say we're back in a moment. 1:27:16.160 --> 1:27:17.080 With the. 1:27:19.800 --> 1:27:22.080 Thank you gee for doing the story this week. Are 1:27:22.120 --> 1:27:24.120 you ready for some letters you don't know? 1:27:24.200 --> 1:27:26.439 I just jumped to when you were a little bit scared. 1:27:26.560 --> 1:27:29.599 This comes from Susie, Hi, Sammy, and Georgia. I am 1:27:29.680 --> 1:27:32.959 a road nurse and listen to your episodes driving between clients. 1:27:33.640 --> 1:27:37.599 My favorite episode was with Elizabeth from Beths Dead. It's 1:27:37.680 --> 1:27:40.000 not a crime, but I had a Thursday Treat suggestion. 1:27:40.720 --> 1:27:45.600 It's in Georgia's fave placed Tasmania and is the disappearance 1:27:45.760 --> 1:27:47.200 of Selene Kremer. 1:27:47.760 --> 1:27:49.320 Oh hang on, I know the name, but I can't 1:27:49.320 --> 1:27:50.160 think of the case. 1:27:50.320 --> 1:27:52.960 The community rallied to find answers for a family when 1:27:52.960 --> 1:27:57.360 the officials didn't. This case is as neat as a resolution. 1:28:00.479 --> 1:28:03.439 This case is at near resolution. 1:28:03.600 --> 1:28:06.840 I'm not sure that nearly at its resolution nearly. 1:28:06.600 --> 1:28:09.880 At a resolution. Rob Parsons YouTube is a great place 1:28:09.920 --> 1:28:12.759 to start. Keep up the good work, Susie. 1:28:13.120 --> 1:28:14.040 Oh thanks Susan. 1:28:14.600 --> 1:28:19.519 You have to look into that love that was cool. 1:28:20.200 --> 1:28:24.560 Made it up that was really cool. This is a voicemail, 1:28:24.560 --> 1:28:27.120 as we call them, a speak pipe from. 1:28:27.280 --> 1:28:32.320 Ali, Hi, Sammy and Georgia. My name's Emma. 1:28:33.200 --> 1:28:38.040 No, just kidding as Allie long timelesseners, second time Cooler, 1:28:39.479 --> 1:28:42.479 calling to say how much I've been loving the pod 1:28:42.880 --> 1:28:44.840 and loving the longer episodes. 1:28:44.960 --> 1:28:48.479 They are really enjoyable and they're perfect for me for 1:28:48.600 --> 1:28:50.800 my drive to work. I managed to finish one on 1:28:50.920 --> 1:28:56.000 the way to and from each day. That's fantastic, Definitely. 1:28:56.400 --> 1:28:58.160 I think the girls are loving when I come in 1:28:58.360 --> 1:29:01.360 in the morning and say, oh my god, guys, guess 1:29:01.479 --> 1:29:03.720 what's just happened on my podcast that I listened to? 1:29:03.960 --> 1:29:04.880 And I tell them all. 1:29:04.800 --> 1:29:07.599 About it, and the first thing they say is, who's died? 1:29:07.720 --> 1:29:07.880 Now? 1:29:09.439 --> 1:29:11.600 What's happened now? What terrible things are you about to 1:29:11.640 --> 1:29:16.680 tell us? So that's really fun but loving it. And 1:29:17.400 --> 1:29:20.200 next thing is, I have a case for you. I 1:29:20.880 --> 1:29:23.639 would really love to hear your take on the Rochelle 1:29:23.800 --> 1:29:27.000 Child's case. What's the one that I heard of and 1:29:27.360 --> 1:29:30.800 stumbled across, I guess and have become really invested in 1:29:31.040 --> 1:29:33.880 and it's just one that really sits close to home 1:29:34.240 --> 1:29:36.800 and would love to hear your take on it. Say 1:29:37.120 --> 1:29:40.560 hi to Paud's and Digs and I can't wait to 1:29:40.640 --> 1:29:42.840 hear more from you both soon. 1:29:43.479 --> 1:29:50.640 Oh thank you, Ali Emma, Emma and Jemma seemed to 1:29:50.720 --> 1:29:53.720 be the big one, so Jemma both g E M 1:29:53.920 --> 1:29:57.040 m A and j E M m A. It mixes 1:29:57.040 --> 1:29:58.200 it up every time. And I love that. 1:30:00.120 --> 1:30:03.160 One. I just I love that as well. I love 1:30:03.240 --> 1:30:05.599 hear you say that when you go into work and say, 1:30:06.000 --> 1:30:08.200 guess what happened on my podcast? I love that. 1:30:08.400 --> 1:30:12.160 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that. This one comes from Emily. 1:30:13.080 --> 1:30:17.080 You're going to say, Emma, Hi, Sammy and Georgia. 1:30:17.640 --> 1:30:20.519 Big fan of the podcast here, and I'm a fellow 1:30:21.040 --> 1:30:25.080 Sea Change Tragic as well. In the day, coming to 1:30:25.120 --> 1:30:28.920 you this morning from the Inn the West, from glorious Williamstown, 1:30:28.960 --> 1:30:33.240 where it's a beautiful world for an absolute scorch yesterday. 1:30:34.320 --> 1:30:38.040 And I'm sending you this message because I listened to 1:30:38.120 --> 1:30:41.360 your podcast last week and I thought you might be 1:30:41.479 --> 1:30:45.360 interested to know that the Pearl Bay Courthouse in the 1:30:45.439 --> 1:30:49.400 TV series Sea Change is actually the Surf Life Saving 1:30:49.479 --> 1:30:54.040 Clubhouse here at Williamstown, and there's a little Clark memorializing 1:30:54.080 --> 1:30:56.120 it with a little bit of information, so I'll send 1:30:56.200 --> 1:30:59.360 you some pics. Who would have thought that the glorious 1:31:00.080 --> 1:31:02.280 Albay Courthouse. 1:31:02.040 --> 1:31:05.519 It's right here in city of oh my god. 1:31:06.520 --> 1:31:09.600 In Williamstown. I walk past it every day with my 1:31:09.720 --> 1:31:13.719 dog and we have very fond memories of sea change. 1:31:13.720 --> 1:31:18.360 Will I do, my dog doesn't. So keep up the 1:31:18.439 --> 1:31:21.080 great work on the podcast. It gives me a good 1:31:21.160 --> 1:31:24.160 laugh every twice a week. I don't know how you 1:31:24.240 --> 1:31:24.400 do it. 1:31:25.640 --> 1:31:29.200 Thank you, Oh my god, Emily, that's amazing. Okay, that 1:31:29.360 --> 1:31:32.559 is blowing our minds. Williams add is like, like, twenty 1:31:32.600 --> 1:31:34.599 minute drive from here is Emmy, we could go there 1:31:34.680 --> 1:31:35.519 right now if we want to do. 1:31:35.960 --> 1:31:40.400 There's votes atach photos. So as promised, here are some 1:31:40.520 --> 1:31:43.200 pics of Earl Bay Courthouse from my walk to Willie 1:31:43.200 --> 1:31:46.320 Beach this morning to accompany my voice message. And yeah, 1:31:46.320 --> 1:31:48.759 there's a plaque that says the sea change. 1:31:49.160 --> 1:31:52.600 I can't I believe the locations were like out in 1:31:52.800 --> 1:31:53.559 regional Victoria. 1:31:54.120 --> 1:31:57.719 Yeah, isn't that why there Williamstown and right there? Because 1:31:57.800 --> 1:32:01.240 I was wondering how a court has. 1:32:01.479 --> 1:32:03.920 On the beach but you're actually caught out No I know, 1:32:04.040 --> 1:32:06.200 but in the Sholds Court what is this? 1:32:06.320 --> 1:32:07.960 Do they film it separately? Like what is going on? 1:32:08.560 --> 1:32:09.719 That's so cool? 1:32:10.200 --> 1:32:15.760 We should do a little expedition. Yeah, absolutely, I was 1:32:15.840 --> 1:32:19.240 thinking excursion expedition, but then I remembered I'm an excursion. 1:32:19.320 --> 1:32:23.439 Well, Emily can show us around for the next one. 1:32:23.960 --> 1:32:30.240 This is another speak pipe that comes from Hannah, Hi. 1:32:30.200 --> 1:32:31.400 Georgia Love, and Sammy P. 1:32:31.840 --> 1:32:32.599 This is Hannah. 1:32:33.120 --> 1:32:36.280 I love listening to your podcast every week till multiple 1:32:36.320 --> 1:32:39.439 times a week. It feels like I'm just listening to 1:32:39.520 --> 1:32:42.320 all the latest cross with Friends throwing a good dose 1:32:42.400 --> 1:32:46.559 of crime. It's just really makes my week so funny. 1:32:46.600 --> 1:32:50.600 Story back in twenty thirteen, I went to LA and 1:32:50.680 --> 1:32:53.599 I was meeting one of my friends there. She got 1:32:53.640 --> 1:32:56.679 me to book the accommodation brokeun new student wanted something 1:32:56.760 --> 1:33:00.160 budget friendly and near to where my Kiki too was 1:33:00.240 --> 1:33:04.680 leading from books stay on me. I arrived to date 1:33:04.720 --> 1:33:08.360 Billy than she did, and I barely slept the first 1:33:08.479 --> 1:33:12.320 night because I was so creeped out. I couldn't understand why. 1:33:12.400 --> 1:33:15.400 I just got the egg feeling right from the God. 1:33:16.040 --> 1:33:19.120 My friend felt the same thing when she remarked, anyway, 1:33:19.479 --> 1:33:23.760 many manuyears later, I just happened to be flipping through 1:33:23.800 --> 1:33:27.679 the Prime documentaries on Netflix and actually found the Cecil 1:33:27.760 --> 1:33:33.599 Hotel documentary and dispatch myself lasting that I'd actually stayed there. 1:33:33.680 --> 1:33:37.960 For a few days. Anyway, keep up the good work. Hi. 1:33:38.360 --> 1:33:44.560 Oh my god, Yeah, it's amazing. 1:33:44.680 --> 1:33:45.600 It's incredible. 1:33:46.520 --> 1:33:49.080 We're talking about the ellixa laand episode you speaking about 1:33:49.080 --> 1:33:52.120 the Cesel hotel. Also, I did a continue to out 1:33:52.200 --> 1:33:55.280 starting in La in twenty twelve, did you. Yeah, so Hannah, 1:33:55.320 --> 1:33:56.759 we nearly could have met Hannah. 1:33:56.880 --> 1:33:57.519 What the hell? 1:33:58.240 --> 1:33:58.559 What the. 1:34:00.320 --> 1:34:01.440 Day at the Staleman? 1:34:01.720 --> 1:34:04.439 Oh well, that's incredible, isn't it? 1:34:04.880 --> 1:34:06.439 Oh my god? That doesn't that amazing? 1:34:06.920 --> 1:34:07.720 I stayed there. 1:34:08.080 --> 1:34:10.080 I love that she said that she got the creeps 1:34:10.080 --> 1:34:12.759 from it and didn't know why because of the portal. 1:34:13.479 --> 1:34:17.120 The portal, which we all believe in. Definitely the portal. 1:34:17.720 --> 1:34:22.479 Let's leave on a beautiful letter, okay from Leah, Hey, 1:34:22.520 --> 1:34:24.920 Sammy and Georgia love the pod. I have to say 1:34:24.960 --> 1:34:26.040 I'm a little obsessed. 1:34:26.240 --> 1:34:26.719 Oh yeah. 1:34:27.439 --> 1:34:30.360 I only discovered you guys this year SOW twenty six, 1:34:30.880 --> 1:34:34.439 and I've already listened to every single episode. I just 1:34:34.520 --> 1:34:36.479 wanted to send it in a case suggestion you might 1:34:36.600 --> 1:34:40.240 be interested in. I'd love to hear some Australians cover 1:34:40.360 --> 1:34:44.000 this one because I'm only ever found American podcast talking 1:34:44.040 --> 1:34:47.240 about it, which feels pretty strange given it happened here. 1:34:48.200 --> 1:34:50.920 It was around two thousand and six. I was living 1:34:51.040 --> 1:34:53.639 in nar A Hill at the time and one day 1:34:53.840 --> 1:34:57.800 there were helicopters everywhere over our street. Later that day 1:34:57.840 --> 1:34:59.880 we found out via the news that murders had taken 1:35:00.040 --> 1:35:03.720 place in our street. The case is more commonly known 1:35:03.800 --> 1:35:06.519 as the Bodies in the Barrel's murders in now. 1:35:06.680 --> 1:35:08.639 Ah because the bodies in the barrels snow. 1:35:09.400 --> 1:35:12.559 Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think it would be really compelling, 1:35:12.680 --> 1:35:15.439 a really compelling case for you guys to cover, especially 1:35:15.600 --> 1:35:18.120 since there wasn't a lot of coverage out there. And 1:35:18.200 --> 1:35:21.000 it's always stuck with me because I was actually there 1:35:21.160 --> 1:35:23.920 at the time. Anyway, love your work, Keep doing what 1:35:24.040 --> 1:35:27.240 you do, by Leah, And she's a little yellow. 1:35:27.160 --> 1:35:30.040 Love hump Oh Leah, that's great. 1:35:30.200 --> 1:35:30.519 I know. 1:35:32.080 --> 1:35:34.519 That is like I know the story but not well so. 1:35:35.720 --> 1:35:38.280 And yeah, let's be the first Australiums to do that. 1:35:38.760 --> 1:35:40.400 That also reminds me of story. I should have said 1:35:40.400 --> 1:35:44.800 this at the start. A friend of mine did some 1:35:45.080 --> 1:35:50.320 work for someone who hosts another crime podcast. Yes this 1:35:50.479 --> 1:35:53.760 is not another crime podcast, they are an actual one. 1:35:54.880 --> 1:36:00.800 At anyway, she said. My friend said to me, I 1:36:00.800 --> 1:36:03.320 don't know if this person was having a direct dig 1:36:03.400 --> 1:36:05.280 at you, or if I just thought they were because 1:36:05.320 --> 1:36:08.880 I'm your friend. But this person said, I hate when 1:36:09.000 --> 1:36:13.880 crime podcasts try to be funny. Green is not your color. 1:36:14.120 --> 1:36:15.919 Yeah, exactly, We're not trying. 1:36:15.720 --> 1:36:18.200 To be funny about the crimes. Yeah, and actually we 1:36:18.240 --> 1:36:19.960 don't try to be funny at all. Right, we're just. 1:36:20.000 --> 1:36:22.920 Actually, I'm going to get end. Actually on two quick 1:36:22.960 --> 1:36:25.639 out Spotify comments because I absolutely love reading Spotify comments. 1:36:25.680 --> 1:36:27.280 Yeah, because they're about a specific episode. 1:36:27.320 --> 1:36:29.360 They are. It's so good. We love that, so please 1:36:29.960 --> 1:36:32.479 keep doing that. This is from Emma, Hey, Sammy and 1:36:33.000 --> 1:36:36.320 love Emma here once again, which one. Thank you so 1:36:36.479 --> 1:36:38.800 much for reading my email on the podcast. I just 1:36:38.880 --> 1:36:40.880 wanted to say. I put the time stamps in my 1:36:40.960 --> 1:36:43.320 email so the audio clips could be played on the episode. 1:36:43.400 --> 1:36:46.479 Lave face. Look, you just read out the time. I 1:36:46.600 --> 1:36:49.360 just read a time Look, Emma, I'll be honest. We 1:36:49.640 --> 1:36:52.799 sometimes record on a Sunday, which means that the amount 1:36:52.800 --> 1:36:54.479 of editing I had to do for the episodes is 1:36:54.520 --> 1:36:56.800 quite big. So I'm sorry I didn't actually go back 1:36:56.840 --> 1:36:59.120 and put the actual clips in there as well. 1:36:59.080 --> 1:36:59.880 But they'll do it now. 1:37:01.120 --> 1:37:03.800 Non late again. 1:37:03.880 --> 1:37:05.120 You look so upset. 1:37:05.240 --> 1:37:08.519 We always say we're going to get ahead on this podcast, 1:37:08.640 --> 1:37:11.760 we never really have. And this one, which is one 1:37:11.760 --> 1:37:16.320 of my absolute favorites so far, it comes from and 1:37:17.080 --> 1:37:20.479 I think your name is Clara Lanise. I think it 1:37:20.560 --> 1:37:22.720 might be two words, or if your whole, if your 1:37:22.760 --> 1:37:28.200 first name is Clara Clarinese, Clarini. Maybe congrats making it 1:37:28.280 --> 1:37:31.560 to a year, such a great podcast. Bring on the 1:37:31.640 --> 1:37:35.599 Feathers McGraw episode. And then Penguin emoji, penguin emoj penguin emoji, 1:37:36.000 --> 1:37:38.760 which is actually correct because it's not a chook, it's 1:37:38.840 --> 1:37:45.840 not a Now we have amazing, amazing voicemails, and we've 1:37:45.880 --> 1:37:48.599 got so many internet letters as well that keep coming through. 1:37:48.720 --> 1:37:50.560 We will read them all and we will get to 1:37:50.640 --> 1:37:53.479 them all. We absolutely love it. Gee, how can people 1:37:53.800 --> 1:37:54.360 leave these? 1:37:54.439 --> 1:37:56.439 If they want to leave us, they can email us 1:37:56.840 --> 1:38:00.320 Sammy at just another company dot com dot au. They 1:38:00.360 --> 1:38:05.200 can leave us a voice note. Yeah, via website called 1:38:05.240 --> 1:38:06.800 speak Pipe, and the link to that is in the 1:38:06.840 --> 1:38:08.760 show notes of the episode and in the link tree 1:38:08.800 --> 1:38:11.280 on our Instagram, which I'm so glad you asked. The 1:38:11.400 --> 1:38:13.920 handle is not another crime podcast. Guess what. It's the 1:38:14.000 --> 1:38:16.560 same on TikTok and guess what, it's the same. On 1:38:16.640 --> 1:38:21.840 YouTube full episode, you can see my life of a show, 1:38:21.880 --> 1:38:23.880 got Miss Piggy t shirt and you can at the 1:38:23.960 --> 1:38:28.120 moment I did spit take out and I hadn't had 1:38:28.160 --> 1:38:29.519 any thing to drink, so it was just. 1:38:29.560 --> 1:38:31.240 You could see my address. I think at the start 1:38:31.560 --> 1:38:31.960 you can. 1:38:31.840 --> 1:38:34.360 See said it's your address. 1:38:34.360 --> 1:38:36.679 We should you can see the office address. 1:38:36.680 --> 1:38:40.760 It's definitely see Sammy staring down the barrel while trying 1:38:40.760 --> 1:38:42.000 to flirt with Helen Ghana. 1:38:42.160 --> 1:38:43.200 Yes, through the lens. 1:38:43.800 --> 1:38:50.200 You can also leave us a poetry peep. Oh yeah, yeah, 1:38:50.200 --> 1:38:52.920 I gotta look up. I keep it listed. If they 1:38:52.920 --> 1:38:54.360 don't just like come to mind. 1:38:54.760 --> 1:38:57.280 Well, yeah, I'm going to talk about my special little 1:38:57.280 --> 1:38:58.880 bit more before you actually because I want to tell 1:38:58.920 --> 1:39:01.439 you to go and check it out. I actually it 1:39:01.520 --> 1:39:03.240 has started to write down poor dry peas. 1:39:03.400 --> 1:39:06.000 Oh yeah, okay, I've got mine. Are you ready for mine? 1:39:06.240 --> 1:39:06.439 Yep? 1:39:07.439 --> 1:39:10.120 That you have to fill out. Oh I feel good 1:39:10.200 --> 1:39:13.519 saying this makes me so angry. When you arrive, if 1:39:13.520 --> 1:39:16.120 you've been lunky enough to travel overseas then your eyes 1:39:16.200 --> 1:39:19.000 back into Australia, you still have to fill out a 1:39:19.240 --> 1:39:21.719 physical arrivals. 1:39:21.240 --> 1:39:24.160 Card with a pen and paper, Oh yes. 1:39:25.320 --> 1:39:28.000 To go through customs. It is the only country that 1:39:28.160 --> 1:39:32.440 I've been to that you still need to physically handwrite 1:39:32.479 --> 1:39:35.360 these things. And it's so annoying. And it makes it 1:39:35.439 --> 1:39:37.560 even more annoying that the paper is on it's like 1:39:37.640 --> 1:39:40.599 a really light orange color, so you can't really see 1:39:40.680 --> 1:39:42.439 the white boxes that you meant to put the letters 1:39:42.479 --> 1:39:44.640 in it. And I just it's just become like a 1:39:44.760 --> 1:39:47.759 proper pet Peeve to me that like there's nothing. It's fine, 1:39:47.760 --> 1:39:49.479 I can write the things, but I just when I 1:39:49.520 --> 1:39:51.280 see them handing them around, I'm like, God, damn, I 1:39:51.360 --> 1:39:52.679 update your freaking system. 1:39:52.960 --> 1:39:55.120 It should be a QR code by now, for God's sake. 1:39:56.000 --> 1:39:59.160 Mine is when you heat food on a plate and 1:39:59.240 --> 1:40:02.760 the plate is absolute lava, G love, the food is 1:40:02.840 --> 1:40:07.599 emotionally very cold, emotionally emotionally very cold. So that's mine 1:40:08.000 --> 1:40:10.320 for this week. That is my god, damn, poor Drey Peeve. 1:40:10.640 --> 1:40:12.880 And can I say, G love. What I'm gonna do 1:40:13.000 --> 1:40:15.880 now is I'm going to do a live look at 1:40:15.920 --> 1:40:17.880 how many people have watched my specials. Oh my god, 1:40:18.439 --> 1:40:20.679 my god, because this is at the moment it came 1:40:20.800 --> 1:40:24.080 out on four hours ago. Now, twenty four hours ago. 1:40:24.200 --> 1:40:26.160 I'm going to do a live look see ifeople are 1:40:26.160 --> 1:40:27.960 watching it. It's gonna it's gonna play, It's gonna play it. 1:40:28.760 --> 1:40:31.600 I'm on sixteen thousand views. Fuck off, i am on 1:40:31.800 --> 1:40:35.280 sixteen thousand views, so you can check. 1:40:35.120 --> 1:40:38.160 That out, one long face, sixteen thousand. 1:40:38.320 --> 1:40:45.640 I'm on sixteen thousand views, sixteen thousand views. Oh my goodenough, Like, 1:40:46.080 --> 1:40:48.439 oh my goodness. 1:40:48.400 --> 1:40:51.280 The proudest friend in the who damn world? Oh you 1:40:51.320 --> 1:40:52.800 said I can sing a Timmy Jit song? 1:40:53.360 --> 1:40:56.719 Oh yeah, course, but yeah, I would love it. Like honestly, 1:40:57.800 --> 1:41:00.439 what happens is, I've done this show for a very 1:41:00.520 --> 1:41:02.080 very long time. This is the last time that I 1:41:02.160 --> 1:41:05.360 did it. And it costs a lot to film a special, 1:41:05.640 --> 1:41:07.679 it costs a lot to do all of that. That's 1:41:07.760 --> 1:41:08.960 just me out of pocket. I'm not going to make 1:41:08.960 --> 1:41:10.839 any money out of this. This is just on YouTube 1:41:10.880 --> 1:41:14.840 dot com free, famously free, and the Comedy Club Comedy 1:41:14.840 --> 1:41:18.560 Republic put this up. So I would bloody love it. 1:41:18.840 --> 1:41:21.960 If you would just would just watch it, share it 1:41:22.040 --> 1:41:24.160 with a friend, put it on social media and tag 1:41:24.240 --> 1:41:26.840 me and all reshare it because I absolutely love that. 1:41:27.200 --> 1:41:28.479 If got it out there to me. 1:41:28.560 --> 1:41:31.559 More importantly, you guys will love it like it's therefore 1:41:31.600 --> 1:41:36.200 you're entertainment. Yeah, make anything from watching it, but you 1:41:36.560 --> 1:41:39.719 will make your night by watching it. It's so beautiful. 1:41:39.840 --> 1:41:43.280 My friend messaged me she watched it last night afterwards 1:41:43.320 --> 1:41:46.720 and said Sam's comedy special words dot dot dot beautiful. 1:41:47.920 --> 1:41:51.799 I was not expecting that it was really beautiful. 1:41:52.760 --> 1:41:56.760 Who's your friend, Taylor? I thank you, Taylor, Love you Taylor. Yeah. 1:41:57.040 --> 1:42:01.560 I have also been sweet several podcasts. I've been on 1:42:02.000 --> 1:42:05.880 the Moment with myth Warhurst. I have been on Plumbing 1:42:06.040 --> 1:42:08.439 the Death Star, So if you want to listen to those, 1:42:08.800 --> 1:42:11.880 I'm on all those and Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Zepps 1:42:12.160 --> 1:42:15.439 to promote my special. So yeah, I'd love it if 1:42:15.479 --> 1:42:17.920 you actually and we talk about this podcast a lot 1:42:17.960 --> 1:42:21.240 on myth Warhurst podcast right about true crime quite a 1:42:21.280 --> 1:42:21.760 lot as well. 1:42:22.000 --> 1:42:25.120 The only thing I have to promote this week is 1:42:25.200 --> 1:42:26.880 my voice in the start of Tim. 1:42:26.760 --> 1:42:29.240 Mintionin Fantastic No Shoes Girly do it? 1:42:29.439 --> 1:42:30.920 Do you want me to sing a Tim mintionon song 1:42:31.040 --> 1:42:32.960 or do you want me to do a Jeez Christ 1:42:32.960 --> 1:42:34.519 Superstar song that Tim mentioned? 1:42:34.920 --> 1:42:36.519 I would like you to do a Tim mention song 1:42:36.880 --> 1:42:38.880 you go, girlfriend, wanted to start? 1:42:38.920 --> 1:42:46.479 Okay, come home, Cardinal pell I know you're not feeling well. 1:42:47.000 --> 1:42:49.599 I don't remembered the odd words. 1:42:51.200 --> 1:42:52.479 Do you have a song that you know of his 1:42:52.600 --> 1:42:53.760 that you maybe you could see. I just want to 1:42:53.760 --> 1:42:54.439 sing a song. 1:42:54.520 --> 1:42:58.439 Just on this podcasts Grist Superstars. Well, give me another one. 1:42:59.200 --> 1:43:06.280 Okay, Ducks go, Okay, canvas bags Okay, it's as good 1:43:06.280 --> 1:43:06.559 as well. 1:43:08.720 --> 1:43:10.160 Now we're blanking because all. 1:43:11.000 --> 1:43:14.320 We are going to end today on a song by 1:43:14.720 --> 1:43:25.280 Richard Richard Cheese Cheese. He's a Vegas performer. In the house. 1:43:27.680 --> 1:43:36.960 There's some wores in the house. STI fried free, make 1:43:37.040 --> 1:43:47.240 that week wet ass pussy, make that pull out game. 1:43:47.479 --> 1:43:59.280 We beat it up, baby nice, extra large, extra hard. 1:44:01.760 --> 1:44:06.080 Ride in your face, swife your nose. 1:44:06.320 --> 1:44:13.600 Like a credit card. I want enough, I want to go. 1:44:13.840 --> 1:44:22.960 I do a kigg Whoa, it's inside Okay, okay, anyway, everybody, 1:44:23.160 --> 1:44:26.559 Thank you was always for listening. We'll see you on Thursday. 1:44:26.640 --> 1:44:28.559 Leave the five star rating leg of five star review. 1:44:28.600 --> 1:44:29.519 You simply must do that. 1:44:30.479 --> 1:44:30.519 You. 1:44:30.680 --> 1:44:32.599 Thank you to Tams and Hayes is always doing the artwork. 1:44:32.640 --> 1:44:35.040 Thank you to Oliver Clark for doing the music and 1:44:35.120 --> 1:44:35.639 the theme. 1:44:35.520 --> 1:44:39.120 Song Sammy Special. Go onto his instagram Sammy Peterson Unofficial 1:44:39.160 --> 1:44:41.680 and find it her pig Power. 1:44:41.600 --> 1:44:45.760 How watch us on YouTube, Support us as much as 1:44:45.800 --> 1:44:47.720 you can, Share this podcast with a friend and tag 1:44:47.800 --> 1:44:48.599 us on social media. 1:44:48.680 --> 1:44:49.680 And I love you, I. 1:44:50.040 --> 1:44:53.800 Love you, Bye everybody. TikTok Book Talk Star