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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, even children who are struggling, you know, families that

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Speaker 2: are struggling and don't have the resources. The way that

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Speaker 2: schools cater for children's needs and strengths and development and

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Speaker 2: gifts and talents, they can do so many things.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson, the author of six

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Speaker 2: books about raising happy families. And I'm here with my

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Speaker 2: wife and co host and the mum to our six daughters, Kylie,

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Speaker 2: missus Happy Families. Kylie. We've had what we're getting more

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Speaker 2: and more emails to the podcast podcasts at Happyfamilies dot

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Speaker 2: com dot au.

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Speaker 3: And we actually have Maria on the phone with us

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Speaker 3: right now.

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Speaker 2: She has a question shopping on the Gold Coasts. Maria,

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Speaker 2: what's troubling you? Why did you email us? Hi?

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Speaker 4: Guys, yep.

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Speaker 5: I emailed because I had questions about after school and

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Speaker 5: extracurricular activities and just how to juggle them. I've just

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Speaker 5: I've got three kids. They all want to go in

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Speaker 5: different directions. They all want to do music.

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Speaker 4: And sport and all kinds of things and in the afternoons,

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Speaker 4: and I just just so much time and so much

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Speaker 4: fun available for all three of them.

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Speaker 2: I was going to say, that's actually the big thing,

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Speaker 2: isn't it. If only they all had licenses and could

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Speaker 2: get themselves where they wanted to go, then you'd only

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Speaker 2: have to worry about the money. But the extra stuff

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Speaker 2: costs a fortune.

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Speaker 5: That's right. And there's only one of me to take

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Speaker 5: them everywhere.

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Speaker 3: I used to think that if I just limited it

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Speaker 3: to two extracurricular activities per children, that I could manage

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Speaker 3: it all.

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Speaker 2: And we had six kids.

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Speaker 3: Six of them, and it's just it's such a.

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Speaker 5: Juggle, isn't there at twelve?

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right?

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Speaker 3: So then I started dictating.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we're all doing swimming. So Maria, do you do

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Speaker 2: your kids all want to do the same activities or

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Speaker 2: do they literally all want to do different things?

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Speaker 4: No, they all want to do different things, And I

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Speaker 4: think they've all got their little alone personalities, and so

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Speaker 4: I want them to.

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Speaker 5: Explore what they like. But yeah, it's just challenging getting

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Speaker 5: them to everything.

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Speaker 2: And so one last question for you before we try

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Speaker 2: to find some answers to help, how many activities do

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Speaker 2: you currently have those three children doing.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 5: There's basketball, there's gymnastics, there's music lessons.

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Speaker 2: Are they all doing the same music lessons?

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Speaker 5: Them has culture groups? No, they all have three different instruments.

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Speaker 2: They have three different instruments each.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, oh no, three of them have an instrument each,

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Speaker 5: and there at different times, different different times.

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Speaker 2: And then you your top school on top of that

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Speaker 2: with their activities for school and other commitments and I'm

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Speaker 2: sure that.

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Speaker 5: That's right, and friends and yeah, family time and friends

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Speaker 5: time and yeah, it's.

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Speaker 2: Just it's so exhausting. This conversation exhausts me. But you know,

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Speaker 2: the other thing, just before we even talk about trying

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Speaker 2: to work out the strategy here the best way forward.

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Speaker 2: I talk to so many parents who feel like they're

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Speaker 2: not being good enough parents if they don't have their

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Speaker 2: children involved in all of these extra curricular activities. Like

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Speaker 2: we feel like our children are going to be missing out,

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Speaker 2: like we're doing them a disservice if they don't get

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Speaker 2: to do swing, or don't learn that musical instrument, or

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Speaker 2: don't do all of these things. And I just want

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Speaker 2: to at the very outset say I don't necessarily think

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Speaker 2: that that's being fair to you to say that.

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Speaker 3: I think about this whole thing, and the reality is

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Speaker 3: that our children live in the most privileged society that.

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Speaker 2: Probably in the history of humanity. Like what even children

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Speaker 2: who are struggling, you know, families that are struggling and

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Speaker 2: don't have the resources. The way that schools cater for

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Speaker 2: children's needs and strengths and development and gifts and talents,

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Speaker 2: they can do so many things and.

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Speaker 3: Programs that are available at our schools for free that

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Speaker 3: allow our children to try new things and learn new

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Speaker 3: skills that they can add to as they grow is phenomenal.

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Speaker 2: There's community groups, and you know, if you can't afford,

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Speaker 2: let's say, a musical instrument for your child, there's that

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Speaker 2: thing called Facebook marketplace where you get stuff so cheap.

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Speaker 2: People are constantly selling stuff and you can pick it

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Speaker 2: up for next to nothing. Stick them in front of

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Speaker 2: YouTube and they'll learn how to play the guitar, they'll

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Speaker 2: learn how to play the piano. Likes It's incredible, just

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Speaker 2: how extraordinary the opportunities are for our children today if

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Speaker 2: we can be a little bit creative, even if our

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Speaker 2: resources are limited. So I just want to put that

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Speaker 2: out there as a parent, you're not obligated, you don't

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Speaker 2: have to, it's not essential, and that your children can

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Speaker 2: still live really delightful lives and make a contribution and

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Speaker 2: learn and develop. I think that it's really important that

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Speaker 2: we take the pressure off ourselves.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think the other thing about it is

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Speaker 3: really important. Just like I had to put my decision

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Speaker 3: with whether or not I go to tape through my

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Speaker 3: own values filter, I think that this whole scenario around

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Speaker 3: how many extracurricular activities we allow our children to do,

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Speaker 3: what we allow them to be involved in, and how

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Speaker 3: much time it takes us away from other things that

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Speaker 3: we value, it needs to be able to go through

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Speaker 3: that filter.

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Speaker 2: So one decision we've made is children, you all swim

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Speaker 2: for a couple of reasons. Number one, we don't have

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Speaker 2: time to take you to four or five or six

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Speaker 2: different sports because we've got that many children. They could

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Speaker 2: all choose their own sport, but we just don't have

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Speaker 2: the capacity to take them all to different sports. So

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Speaker 2: swimming compulsory. And we live near the beach and we've

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Speaker 2: got a swimming pool, so you're going to learn to swim.

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Speaker 2: And we value fitness and we run it through that

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Speaker 2: filter of time together, capacity and logistics and safety and fitness,

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Speaker 2: and they're things that we care about. And so they're

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Speaker 2: all swimming, Job done. What's the other activity you're going

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Speaker 2: to do? And then you know, if the children want

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Speaker 2: to do other sports, they can do it through school,

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Speaker 2: they can do it in other ways that I go

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Speaker 2: to have an impact on our family in those significant ways.

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Speaker 2: Now that's not always the case. If we've got a

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Speaker 2: child who has a specific talent or capacity that they've

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Speaker 2: developed through school or through trying a sport with somebody else,

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Speaker 2: then we will look for ways that they can leverage

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Speaker 2: that and take advantage of that. But it's not something

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Speaker 2: that we are pushing really hard because there's just only

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Speaker 2: so much that we can do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and we watched this with our kids when they

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Speaker 3: attended a school where there was a lot of extra

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Speaker 3: activities available to them, and we jumped on the bandwagon

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Speaker 3: because we wanted them to be able to experience these things,

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Speaker 3: and what we actually saw was that our kids burnt out.

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Speaker 2: And nearly killed us as well. Yeah, not to mention

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Speaker 2: the cost. So let's talk some more about how we

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Speaker 2: can get this balance right right after the break.

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Speaker 1: It's their Happy Famili's podcat.

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Speaker 2: For a happier family. Try a Happy Families membership, because

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Speaker 2: a happy family doesn't just happen. Details at happy families

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Speaker 2: dot com dot au.

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Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 3: a poor parent who just wants answers now. And today

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Speaker 3: we were talking with Maria about how to juggle the

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Speaker 3: choice and the time restraints around extracurricula with our children.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so Maria's on the goldie. The kids are one

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Speaker 2: who spend time at the beach. They've got nippers, they've

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Speaker 2: got their different sports interests, they've got their cultural activities,

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Speaker 2: they've got musical interests. And Maria's kind of saying I

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Speaker 2: can't do it all. So there's two things too, I

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Speaker 2: guess filters that I usually consider when it comes to

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Speaker 2: this filter. Number one is how much time have I got? Like,

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Speaker 2: you've just got to have the capacity to run the

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Speaker 2: kids from place to place to place. I remember, years

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Speaker 2: and years and years ago, I was doing this PR

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Speaker 2: campaign for a major organization. I was on the TV

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Speaker 2: doing interviews and they had another person who was also involved,

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Speaker 2: and the other person was just a kid. He was

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Speaker 2: about ten years old and his mum had him involved in.

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Speaker 2: I think she told me it was eight different extracurricular

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Speaker 2: activities per week. Eight. I don't know how they afforded it.

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Speaker 2: But more than that, I don't know how the time, Like,

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Speaker 2: how do you stretch yourself that thinner make everything happen?

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Speaker 2: And the second field I've got other than just making

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Speaker 2: sure that timing works and that you're not spreading yourself

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Speaker 2: thinner than you possibly can manage, is dollars, Like you've

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Speaker 2: actually got to have the resources you need. You need

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Speaker 2: to be able to pay for the cost of registration

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Speaker 2: for the sport, or the cost of the music practice

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Speaker 2: and lessons, or the cost of the instruments or whatever

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Speaker 2: it might be. No matter what extracurricular activity you do,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be dollars involved, and you want to

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Speaker 2: make sure that you can actually well not give yourself

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Speaker 2: a heart attack every term when another bill arrives.

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Speaker 3: So I reckon there's a lot of research around this,

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Speaker 3: because this is a dilemma that parents have had for

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Speaker 3: a long time. Can you talk us through some of that,

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Speaker 3: Like what does the research actually tell us.

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Speaker 2: On average, children who are involved in sports or music

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Speaker 2: do seem to do better socially and academically.

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Speaker 3: Well, they're learning a skill that kind of sets them

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Speaker 3: apart a little bit, aren't they. They gain confidence in

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Speaker 3: ball skills and you know, handling themselves and eye hand

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Speaker 3: coordination and all of those things, which means that they

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Speaker 3: feel competent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, and so self esteem usually goes up

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Speaker 2: a little bit. They tend to just on average, little

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Speaker 2: bit better. But they're also let's take music for example,

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Speaker 2: or chess, you're developing your brain. You're learning how to

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Speaker 2: think differently, you're learning new patterns and new ways of

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Speaker 2: doing things, and so academically you're using your memory more,

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Speaker 2: and so academically you do tend to do a little

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Speaker 2: bit better as well. And I think there's also a

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Speaker 2: time management issue. If I've got to get my school

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Speaker 2: work done and I've got to get all these tasks done,

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Speaker 2: I'm probably going to do better. But perhaps one of

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Speaker 2: the main reasons that children tend to do better is

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Speaker 2: because they've got parents who are I guess pushing them

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Speaker 2: or getting them to do extra stuff. And if you're

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Speaker 2: going to push the children, yeah, you're going to invest

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Speaker 2: that way, especially often with families, a great sacrifice. You're

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Speaker 2: probably going to also expect some return on your investment.

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Speaker 2: From an academic point of view, whether they're in a

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Speaker 2: state school or a private school or whatever it might be,

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Speaker 2: the children do tend to do better. There's one more thing, though,

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Speaker 2: that I think we need to talk about, and it's

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Speaker 2: probably the most important filter or consideration of all, and

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Speaker 2: that is that so often I bump into parents who

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Speaker 2: are telling me that their children are not motivated to

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Speaker 2: participate in the extra curricular activities that they're investing in.

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Speaker 2: I'm sacrificing, I'm driving them here, I'm spending all that

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Speaker 2: money I've bought the I bought the harp, or I

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Speaker 2: bought the piano, or I've got them in the cricket

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Speaker 2: team or the netball team or whatever it is, and

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Speaker 2: they just won't do it. They want to quit. They've

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Speaker 2: got no levels of motivation. And it's so so important

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Speaker 2: that your children actually have some saying what they're doing.

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Speaker 2: They're not just doing it because that's what you did

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Speaker 2: as a kid, and you are excellent at it, so

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Speaker 2: therefore they have to be excellent at it. Or you

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Speaker 2: didn't quite make the national team, but by golly, your

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Speaker 2: kids are going to get there. I know, it sounds

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Speaker 2: so obvious when I say that, but it's not fair

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Speaker 2: to heap expectations on our children and their extracurricular performance

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Speaker 2: if they don't want to do it, if they don't

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Speaker 2: have the passion, the drive, the desire. The word passion

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Speaker 2: means to suffer, and if a child is truly passionate

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Speaker 2: about a particular extracurricular activity, they'll be willing to suffer.

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Speaker 2: If they're not willing to suffer for it, then they

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Speaker 2: don't really want to do it that much, So don't

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Speaker 2: force them to do it.

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Speaker 3: So we have one of our children who plays the piano,

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Speaker 3: and I don't think we've actually ever had to ask

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Speaker 3: her to practice because she is so passionate about it.

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Speaker 3: She will literally sit down at that piano for half

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Speaker 3: an hour at a time, for for.

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Speaker 2: Three hours at a time. She's so conscientious.

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Speaker 3: Lay Yeah, So, yeah, as you were talking and I

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Speaker 3: was listening and just thinking about again another filter that

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Speaker 3: we can run this through. Why are we doing this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: You know, if we ask ourselves why are we going

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Speaker 3: through this? We're putting all of this extra stress, strain,

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Speaker 3: financial obligation on our shoulders. Why is it? Because this

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Speaker 3: our child really really wants to do it. Or is

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Speaker 3: it because we think it's really important for them?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? And you know what, both of those are right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it is important for them, and we do

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Speaker 2: want to give them opportunities, and we do want to

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Speaker 2: see them exceed and excel and fulfill their potential and

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Speaker 2: all those things that parents say. And I think that's

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Speaker 2: fair enough, But they've got to be tapping into their

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Speaker 2: strengths their interests. Just because I love cycling, I mean

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Speaker 2: we've tried this. I love cycling. My kids they have

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Speaker 2: not fallen in love with cycling like I have. We

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Speaker 2: think it's the licra. You don't think they like looking

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Speaker 2: at my silky smooth legs. That's not working for them. No,

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Speaker 2: I don't think they like wearing lycra. Oh I thought

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Speaker 2: you meant writing with that in his life. Now, well

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Speaker 2: that's pretty bad too. I'm just overshared, haven't I. I've

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Speaker 2: gone too far.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 2: There's one other thing that I want to highlight very

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Speaker 2: quickly as well, and that is that it's not great

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Speaker 2: to get your kids involved in this stuff too early.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't be encouraging parents to have their children involved

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Speaker 2: in any organized sport or any organized musical lessons before

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Speaker 2: on average somewhere around seven or eight, maybe even nine

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Speaker 2: or ten. They can have fun, they can do playdates,

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Speaker 2: but you want to really minimize the pressure. Don't get

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Speaker 2: them involved in competition. The competitive stuff. It's not good

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Speaker 2: for them while they're young, and it's going to be

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Speaker 2: so much better for them if they can naturally develop

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Speaker 2: competencies and relationships without the pressure of competition and without

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Speaker 2: the pressure of having to look good and be amazing

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Speaker 2: and start young. You know what, there's plenty of people

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Speaker 2: who have won Olympic gold that didn't even pick up

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Speaker 2: their sports until they were in their late teens or

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Speaker 2: even their early twenties. They'll be okay. They don't have

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Speaker 2: to specialize from a young age. Starting later is just fine.

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Speaker 3: Well, hopefully these tips have been helpful as you try

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Speaker 3: to navigate the world of extracurricula with your family.

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Speaker 2: Maria, thanks so much for sending through your email. Podcasts

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Speaker 2: at happy Families dot com dot au is how you

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Speaker 2: can get in touch and let us know what your

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Speaker 2: questions are. Would do our best to help your family

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Speaker 2: be happier If you find the podcast helpful, we would

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Speaker 2: be so grateful if you take a minute or so

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Speaker 2: and go to Apple Podcasts, lead a rating and review.

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Speaker 2: When you do that, people find out about the show

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Speaker 2: and they get to make their families happier as well,

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Speaker 2: which is why we're here. That's what we love. So please,

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Speaker 2: if you're enjoying it, feel free to dive in and

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Speaker 2: do that. We're really grateful, by the way to Justin

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Speaker 2: rule On from Bridge Media. He's our producer. He makes

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Speaker 2: us sound great, and Craig Bruce is our executive producer.

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Speaker 2: He asks us all the hard questions. If you'd like

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Speaker 2: more information on how we can help your family to flourish,

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Speaker 2: particularly if you'd like to have monthly ongoing support via

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Speaker 2: our Happy Families memberships, you can get all the details

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Speaker 2: at happy families dot com dot au