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Speaker 1: Now, as I mentioned on the show on Friday, Thoroughbred

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Speaker 1: Racing NT and the Darwin Turf Club have declared their

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Speaker 1: outright opposition to the Northern Territory government's decision to recall

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Speaker 1: the twelve million dollar grant for the construction of the

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Speaker 1: Darwin Turf Club grand Stand.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: Thoroughbred Racing NT chairman Sid Sterling said that the twelve

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Speaker 1: million dollars was spent and acquitted on the grand stand,

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Speaker 1: which stands on Crown Land and has improved racegirals amenities

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Speaker 1: at the track, and went on to say that it

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Speaker 1: is a productive investment and is already fully booked for

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Speaker 1: the upcoming twenty twenty two Darwin Cup Carnival, more than

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Speaker 1: proving it's worth Now, I know the Northern Territory Government

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Speaker 1: is obviously seeking to recover these funds after an investigation

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Speaker 1: by the Independent Commission against Corruption made findings of misconduct

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Speaker 1: in relation to the awarding of the grant of will

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Speaker 1: to the Darwin Turf Club. So should the Turf Club

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Speaker 1: have to pay this money back? Well, you can let

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Speaker 1: us know what you think. But joining me in the

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Speaker 1: stud is Richard O'Sullivan, the new Darwin Turf Club chair

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Speaker 1: Good morning to you Richard.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie Richard.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate you coming in this morning. Why shouldn't the

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Speaker 1: turf club pay this money back?

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Speaker 3: If I can just step you through the process. Initially,

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Speaker 3: the government invested twelve million dollars in a grandstand at

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Speaker 3: the Darwin Turf Club. Allegedly the Chief Minister was the

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Speaker 3: proponent in Cabinet of that grant money. The money was

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Speaker 3: a grant and the gran grandstand was built. All twelve

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Speaker 3: million in funds allocated by the government were acquitted following audit.

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Speaker 3: The Darwin Turf Club doesn't have the ability to pay

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Speaker 3: twelve million. The industry itself. This is the jockeys, the trainers,

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Speaker 3: the strappers and all those people connected with the industry,

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Speaker 3: and it's a big industry. It injects one hundred and

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Speaker 3: forty million into economy. That industry hadn't seen an increase

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Speaker 3: in funding for five years. They've absorbed increases in cost

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Speaker 3: of training horses in running stables of around thirty percent.

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Speaker 3: Those people are vulnerable. The klawback demand by government is

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Speaker 3: hurting that industry. And these are battlers. People at live

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Speaker 3: in caravans. These aren't well off trainers and jockeys and strappers.

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Speaker 3: The money from Silks is the government initially thought isn't

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Speaker 3: available for repayment of this money. Silk's money is tied

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Speaker 3: up for further four years. So we're claiming that the

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Speaker 3: government's clawback claim is hurting industry, hurting morale, hurting morale

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Speaker 3: even at the Darwin Turf Club with its personnel and

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Speaker 3: its recruitment.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned then Silks because I know that a lot

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Speaker 1: of people listening will be thinking to themselves, well, why

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Speaker 1: can't the dar And Turf Club pay this money back?

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Speaker 1: They must be making a fortune at Silks.

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Speaker 3: The arrangement at Silks, that's your net because the governments

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Speaker 3: are guar and taught for part of this funding. So

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Speaker 3: the government should be very aware the governments are going

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Speaker 3: tour for three and a half minion of that funding.

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Speaker 3: The arrangement is that the Darwen Turf Club and to

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Speaker 3: a lesser extent, the Ella Springs Turf Club, who are

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Speaker 3: investors in Silks, don't get their money back or don't

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Speaker 3: claim back money until the loan is repaid in full.

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Speaker 3: That's four years.

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Speaker 1: Time, okay, So in four years time, the reality is

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Speaker 1: that that loan will hopefully be all paid back. But

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Speaker 1: until then there's no capacity really for that payment to

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Speaker 1: come out.

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Speaker 2: All the money's made.

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Speaker 3: There, Katie, there's no ability of the Darwin Turf Club

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Speaker 3: to pay money. As I've said, the industry has suffered

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Speaker 3: for five years, no increase in funding and prize money,

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Speaker 3: in money generally to train as jockey strappers. One point

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Speaker 3: to me is beyond our scape of ability.

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Speaker 1: So what impact would repaying this money have on racing

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Speaker 1: in the Northern territory.

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Speaker 3: That's a very very good question because racing in the

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Speaker 3: Northern Territory isn't isn't Darwin, isn't Alis, isn't Tenan Kraig,

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Speaker 3: isn't Catherine, isn't The jockeys, the trainers move their horses

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Speaker 3: around the territory. So any impact on racing in Darwin

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Speaker 3: impacts Alice. Just this weekend we had seven Darwin jockeys

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Speaker 3: in Alice Springs, the trainers in Alice Springs for the

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Speaker 3: Cup Carnival coming up, and none of them are from Darwin.

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Speaker 3: Those people support racing throughout the charity, so it's indivisible.

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Speaker 3: Any impact on Darwin impacts on Adelaide River, Catherine, Tanan Creek,

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Speaker 3: Alice Springs.

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Speaker 1: I mean, does the Darwin Turf Club right now feel

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Speaker 1: as though they've been hung out to dry by some

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Speaker 1: degree by the Northern Territory government. The fact is whether

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Speaker 1: people agree or disagree with the grant being.

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Speaker 4: Awarded, it was awarded.

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Speaker 1: You guys have said, you know that you've gone through

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Speaker 1: all the acquittal shift, it's been audited by an external

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Speaker 1: accountancy firm.

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Speaker 2: Do you feel as though you being hung out to

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Speaker 2: dry here?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, Katie. We've gone through a process of governance renewal

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Speaker 3: at the turf Club. We've gone through a governance audit

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Speaker 3: required by the Into government. We've tightened up controls. We

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Speaker 3: also feel that the legitimacy of the clawback is not there.

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Speaker 3: But we've sustained our element of the agreement with the government.

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Speaker 3: We've done a government a government's order. We've complied with that.

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Speaker 3: We've come out with a reasonably clean sheet.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you accept though, and I'm assuming that

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Speaker 1: you do that the Independent Commission against Corruption the IKAK

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Speaker 1: did make findings of misconduct in relation to the awarding

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Speaker 1: of the grant.

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Speaker 3: You know, I can't possibly comment there because I wasn't there, Kadi.

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Speaker 3: I'm new on the board. I'm a new chairman. I

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Speaker 3: wasn't around. I've read the IQQ report and there are

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Speaker 3: appeals against that IQAQ report. Now, if those appeals are upheld,

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Speaker 3: that puts the government in a pretty invidious position.

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Speaker 2: I guess.

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Speaker 1: So the government, on the other hand, would be thinking,

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Speaker 1: or they'd be feeling to themselves, well, these twelve million

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Speaker 1: dollars has you know, has indeed been awarded. What we

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Speaker 1: thought was going on behind the scenes wasn't going home

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Speaker 1: behind the scenes, according to that IKAC report, and we

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Speaker 1: want the money back.

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Speaker 3: This is my view. To my view, it's a bit petulant.

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Speaker 3: You make the decision, you grant the money, the money

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Speaker 3: is acquitted, it's expended as required, and then you want

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Speaker 3: it back. Tennis NT had a tennis court built. I

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Speaker 3: think there was a contribution of around seventeen million there

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Speaker 3: and the gradings of the service wasn't right. The government

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Speaker 3: hasn't called for that money back.

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Speaker 1: So do you feel as though this is opening a

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Speaker 1: bit of a can of worms If they're asking for

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Speaker 1: this grant money back, well, are they going to do

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Speaker 1: the same If you know, other sporting organizations or others

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Speaker 1: maybe don't fulfill their end of the bargain in the

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Speaker 1: way that they hope or expect.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly the point. The ability of a government to

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Speaker 3: change the parameters of grant money must be of concern

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Speaker 3: to all bodies that receive all not for profit bodies,

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Speaker 3: which the dun Turf Club is all not for profit

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Speaker 3: profit bodies who receive money. If the government can petantly

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Speaker 3: turn around say we want to back this is something

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Speaker 3: I've never heard of. I'm a bit staggered. In my past,

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Speaker 3: I was in charge of the associations at which is

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Speaker 3: all the incorporated associations not for profit bodies in the

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Speaker 3: Northern Charity. I have never heard of this being done

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Speaker 3: in the past.

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Speaker 2: Richard.

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Speaker 1: Look, there will definitely be people listening this morning who

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Speaker 1: are thinking to themselves, I'll come on, the turf Club

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Speaker 1: can afford to pay this back? You know, to say

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Speaker 1: that there are people living in caravans and that it's

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Speaker 1: not a wealthy sporting organization surely isn't right.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: They might turn up to the races a few times

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Speaker 1: a year and see what is a pretty extraordinary event

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Speaker 1: that gets put on and think, how can you not

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Speaker 1: pay the money back? It's taxpayers money, but from what

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Speaker 1: you're saying there is not that capacity.

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Speaker 3: Now, look, we've just formulated a budget going forward. There's

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Speaker 3: a contingency of around eighty thousand dollars in the darw

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Speaker 3: And Turf Club budget that can't accommodate one point to

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Speaker 3: mellion paybacklutely cannot.

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Speaker 1: And so right now, is the government suggesting that you

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Speaker 1: pay this off like a payment plan or what are

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Speaker 1: they suggesting.

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Speaker 3: The correspondence, and the correspondence has been through Thoroughbred Racing

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Speaker 3: in ta is that the payback be effected over a

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Speaker 3: period of time. The latest I've seen was a payback

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Speaker 3: of one point two million dollars over ten years, which

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Speaker 3: then amounts to twelve million. We can't afford a cent

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Speaker 3: right now?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, where is this all going to land?

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Speaker 1: Because if they force this upon Thoroughbred Racing in Tea

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Speaker 1: and the Darwin Turf Club, which like I say, some

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Speaker 1: people out there listening will agree that they need to.

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Speaker 1: If they force this upon those two organizations, what's going

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Speaker 1: to happen.

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Speaker 3: I can't really comment on that, Katie. The duty of

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Speaker 3: a board member of a director is to make sure

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Speaker 3: you have an ongoing concern. Solvency is a critical issue.

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Speaker 3: If the clawback of one point two million jeopardized as

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Speaker 3: the solvency of the dar and Turf Club, that Doe

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Speaker 3: and Turf Club doesn't exist.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean for the Northern territory when you

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Speaker 1: talk about tourism, when you talk about visitation, all of

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Speaker 1: those things that really went into that initial proposal. I

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Speaker 1: would suspect to get the grant money for the Grand

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Speaker 1: stat Well, what it.

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Speaker 3: Means is we've got the best We've got the best

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Speaker 3: bookings to my knowledge ever for the darm And Cup Cardinal.

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Speaker 3: There were thirteen days feature days on the Carnal we

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Speaker 3: bring in last year. A year before with COVID we

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Speaker 3: brought in one hundred and forty million. We've got the

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Speaker 3: capacity to bring in far, far greater revenue to the government.

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Speaker 3: The government gets gst out of that. The industry wide, hospitality, hotels, etc.

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Speaker 3: All benefit. The government is jeopardizing this industry by claiming

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Speaker 3: the clawback of twelve million dollars.

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Speaker 4: So what are your next steps?

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Speaker 1: What is the Turf Club going to do and what's

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Speaker 1: thoroughbred racing going to do here? Because it seems as

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Speaker 1: though the government's digging their heels in and it seems

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Speaker 1: as though both the two organizations are saying we're not

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Speaker 1: going to be able to do this, so we're next.

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Speaker 3: Our advice, Katie is legally there is no legal requirement

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Speaker 3: of the Darwin Turf Club to pay back the grant money.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: The Darwin Turf Club has executed the agreement with the

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Speaker 3: Northern Territory government. It's built the grandstand, the funds that

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Speaker 3: the twelve men have been acquitted, and there's been an

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Speaker 3: audit following that which has cleared the Turf Club. We've

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Speaker 3: built what were required to build. I wasn't there. What's

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Speaker 3: upsetting to the current board is they're a new board

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Speaker 3: voted in last year as clean skins to help repair

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Speaker 3: the situation. We thought we'd gone a long way to

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Speaker 3: do that and we're now being held to account by

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Speaker 3: a government insisting on the claim back of a grant.

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Speaker 2: And I understand that you've got a petition as well.

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Speaker 1: The Turf Club and all the Thoroughbread Racing is going

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Speaker 1: to be starting a petition over the next couple of

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Speaker 1: days to that effect.

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Speaker 3: It will I've got that right in front of me, Katie,

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Speaker 3: and if you would like to sign, I'll be the

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Speaker 3: first person to go.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to say a political I reckon and look

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Speaker 1: you right at the time when it all happened, I

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Speaker 1: questioned the government's motivation behind awarding that twelve million dollars

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Speaker 1: right from the get go. I could see, based on

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Speaker 1: what was going on around the territory that there were

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Speaker 1: concerns when it came to the health system and other

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Speaker 1: issues at that point in time. But the fact of

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Speaker 1: the matter is they did indeed award that twelve million

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Speaker 1: dollar grant.

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Speaker 4: The turf Club has built.

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Speaker 1: The grandstand, as you've said, it's on Crown Land, and

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Speaker 1: I do wonder what kind of impact this is going

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Speaker 1: to have on the broader racing community.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think the points you make a valid The

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Speaker 3: day and Turf Club board is a voluntary board. No

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Speaker 3: one gets paid. My time is my time. It's volunteered.

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Speaker 3: I've got the best of goodwill, I had meetings, a

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Speaker 3: meeting with Michael Gunner with the best of goodwill, and

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Speaker 3: it's come to this. I'm very disappointed. I feel as

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Speaker 3: if I've been let down and the government in its

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Speaker 3: clawback claim, to my mind, has been petul I don't

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Speaker 3: know what the reason is. It doesn't think it's got

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Speaker 3: value for money. It needs to provide that reason well.

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Speaker 1: Richard O'Sullivan the new Turf Club, the New Darwin Turf

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Speaker 1: Club Chairman.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate your time this morning. Thanks so much for

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Speaker 2: coming in.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, K