WEBVTT - SARAH WALKER - THE TWELVE s2 - FOXTEL 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:01.720 It's in the news today, but it was actually on 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.920 TV Reload, the podcast Last Deep Their Life. Hey guys, 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:07.200 welcome back to TV Reload. I want to thank you, 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:10.440 of course for clicking and downloading on today's episode with 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:14.360 Sarah Walker, one of the executive producers and writers of 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:16.840 The Twelve, which is on series two on Foxtel at 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:19.799 the moment it's kind of mid season. I have to 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:21.960 say that I'm a big fan of Sarah's work over 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:24.840 the years, and in a past podcast contract that I 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:28.320 had before I did TV Reload, I featured LGBT I 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:32.120 Guess that talked about their backstory and in some ways 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:35.080 it was my chat with Sarah that made me think 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:38.279 about my passion of television, that made me think I 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:41.280 was better suited to talking about television. So you know, look, 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:43.040 there's a bit of trivia there for those who have 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:46.280 been listening to this podcast since the start. Sarah is 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:50.600 a highly experienced Austrayan author, screenwriter and script producer. She 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:53.680 was the lead writer on Lingo BBC one's ratings hit 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:56.560 thriller The Secret that She Keeps, which played out here 0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:00.840 on Foxtel. She co created Network Ten's one and was 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:04.800 this script executive on the prison drama Wentworth, which I 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:08.080 absolutely loved. I will ask her today about the future 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:10.720 of The twelve and how important Sam Neil is in 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:13.640 the continuation of this story. I will ask about the 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:16.840 nature of Fox Tell's productions and how Brian Walsh's legacy 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:20.480 has played a part in making scripted drama moving forward. 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:23.679 This season of The Twelve feels a little easier to follow, 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:26.560 and it's rare that a second series is better than 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:28.800 the first, So I will ask about the notes that 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:31.440 we're given before they went back into the writer's room 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:34.400 to create this series. We will even get an update 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:37.280 on the work that Sarah has been doing with Charlie's 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:40.039 thereon Oh My God, amazing. She's been working with her 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:41.920 for quite a few years on a few projects that 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:44.760 haven't quite seen the light of day, but I believe 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:48.320 when they do will be quite amazing. There's actually so 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:51.240 much to talk about with Sarah, and I absolutely love 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:53.400 talking to her. You can hear that in the chat. 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:56.760 She's very passionate about television. Guys, sit back and relax 0:01:56.840 --> 0:02:00.120 as we delve deeper into the production of how they 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:02.440 made The twelve series two. When Yeah, I really hope 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:03.840 you enjoy this chat. 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:05.760 How are you, Ben? Are you good? 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:08.160 I'm so excited to talk to you because, as you 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:10.440 would know, I've been in your audience for so long, 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:14.080 and I actually had you as a guest in a 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:17.000 podcast that I previously did five years ago where we 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:22.240 talked about your LGBTI legendary status amongst the media. But 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:24.080 here we are, five years later talking again. 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:27.520 Yes, I think legendary is probably pushing it, but I'm 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:29.640 very glad that you can say that. 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:32.840 What a great opportunity to talk today about the twelve 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:37.400 Just so amazing. You've obviously been kicking some serious goals 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:38.400 since we last spoke. 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:40.959 Yes, we've had the wonderful opportunity to come on to 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:44.800 a show that stars Sam Neil and is super elite. 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:49.120 I think in terms of Australian television, it's a huge show. 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:53.320 It's got so many characters and so many storylines and threads, 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.440 so it's a real challenge. But I was invited on 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:59.120 season one as a writer and a kind of co 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:05.040 producer with Brad Winters, and then ultimately in production. I 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:07.720 took over the second half of the production to see 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:11.760 it through. And we're talking about season three, which is great. 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:14.440 Well, this is the thing about the show. It really 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:16.959 does lend itself. I mean, the idea is genius because 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:20.080 we can just come back and see Samuel back there 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:23.000 in that role and get twelve new characters for us 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.400 to win best our time in. It's fantastic. 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:28.840 I mean, it's kind of like an anthology series in 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:33.720 that respect. We've got our lead, wonderful, cheeky criminal barrister 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:37.880 in Sam Neil's so charming, and as you say, each 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:41.400 series is a new crime and twelve new people that 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:44.440 we're exploring. You know, because of that, it's actually quite 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:47.920 challenging because most series, now, you know, when you open 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:50.960 up for the first episode, you've got usually a single 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:54.640 protagonist or maybe two, and all you're doing is setting 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:58.200 up those two people and their journey how it's going 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:00.600 to go. But on this one, we've got you know, 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:05.240 at least four core durors plus eight more, and then 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:08.960 we've got the crime and all the people associated with it, 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:13.120 and Sam's character and whoever his rival is. So you know, 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:15.360 it's a really tricky to kind of get it out 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:18.040 of the gates fast and set everything up. But it's 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:19.279 a challenge that I'm enjoying. 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:22.200 I did feel like this time around, for me, it 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:24.719 felt a little bit more succinct. There wasn't as much 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:28.200 left unanswered for the audience to try and interpret. So 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:32.080 I'm curious about what notes will passed down from series 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:33.000 one to series two. 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.880 Well, it's a good question. I think there were notes 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:39.880 passed down from series one to series two in that 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:43.520 we should reduce the number of core Duror stories, So 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.920 rather than trying to follow all twelve to a kind 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:50.880 of even or close, we should choose maybe four major 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:55.600 storylines and use that, and the other jurors become not 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:58.679 invisible at all because they've all got opinions about the case, 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:03.120 and they also become engaged with those core characters that 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:06.320 we're following, and I think that's why it felt much 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:10.279 more manageable to both write and watch. But I also think, 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:13.839 you know, we were basing our first season on the 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:18.120 twelve from Belgium, the original creators, so we were kind 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:20.839 of guided by the model that they'd used and the 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:24.440 way they'd done it, and in season two I was 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:27.640 able to take over. We haven't based anything in season 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:31.280 two on anything from the original creators except for the 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:34.080 model of the show and how it comes, so I 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:39.719 was able. I felt more comfortable taking I guess agency 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:43.720 with that and making decisions made it a lot easier. 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.120 I think I remember talking to Penny when about this, 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:49.719 about not treating the audience though as though they're stupid, 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:52.640 always remembering to treat the audience like they are intelligent, 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:56.120 and I think that's what this drama feels like for me. 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.600 We don't know exactly where it's going to go, and 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:03.800 it's that's how it maintains your engagement level is by 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:07.280 not giving away everything and setting so many things up 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:09.360 that your brain can has to process. 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:14.159 I've been extremely heartened by the response to both season 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:16.880 one and season two because you have it beaten into 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:19.039 you that the audience you have to come out of 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:21.480 the gates really fast, give the audience a lot of information, 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:24.080 hook them up and tell the story so they don't 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:29.080 get bored. And I really believed, I have always believed 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:33.600 that Australian audiences and audiences everywhere are intelligent and if 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:38.839 you give them something that's genuinely solid and good, that 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:42.040 it's just like having a nourishing meal, they'll take their 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:45.000 time and they'll allow you the time to do that 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:48.080 instead of having this fast food model where you kind 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:50.159 of shove it in your mouth and stick it down 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:52.560 and it gives you all of those great kind of 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:55.239 feelings in the first ten minutes and then you're hungry later. 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:59.520 I really feel like happy that audiences will sit with 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:01.600 these and we'll sit with the show, and we'll sit 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:04.000 with the crime and it's more of a slow burn 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:07.120 in terms of storytelling, but I really believe people are 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:10.520 more hooked than they are by the other version. 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:12.840 I think you're right. What you have been able to 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:14.440 do is really make it our own and make it 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.800 very Australian, which I think is great. How does that 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:21.920 work in terms of global appeal outside of Australia. What's 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:24.880 the reaction been to other countries watching the series? 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.560 Well, you know, we don't get a lot of information 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:31.440 about the international viewership, but I understand that in the 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:35.600 UK it's gone through the roof, and I think everybody 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:39.720 in the industry at the moment is really interested in 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:44.640 getting becificity around characters and places. It's what intrigues people. 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:48.440 So people watching from overseas may not have seen these 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:52.720 kind of areas portrayed in Australia like this, is suburbia. 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:56.200 These are real people's houses. They're not all beautiful harbor 0:07:56.280 --> 0:08:00.720 views or beaches, and so I feel like there's a 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:04.840 real interest in what it is to live in Australia 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.760 or be in Australian that we're presenting in a way 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:09.640 that it hasn't often been presented before. 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:14.400 I think you've captivated that community spirit really well. There's 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:17.440 something quite fascinating about slowing it down and taking it 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:19.880 out of a metro environment and putting it into this 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:23.880 rural setting, because it does feel a little bit more contained. 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:26.160 With that a conversation that you're having, you're like, Okay, 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:27.920 well we want to slow this down so audiences can 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:31.080 keep up with us. Let's take them to this smaller setting. 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:33.920 It wasn't so much about slowing it down. It was 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:37.000 more about what would happen if you had a big trial. 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:39.040 You know, we were intrigued by the fact that the 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:42.959 juries are peaked from your peer group, But what happens 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.959 in a small town, a very small town when courts, 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:48.920 the Supreme Court has what they call the circuit and 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.120 all of the lawyers and the judge go on a 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:56.720 little trip around the regional areas and all of the 0:08:56.880 --> 0:09:00.600 main cases that are too big for local courts there 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:05.440 are heard in this traveling Supreme Court. It's called the circuit, 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.040 but as we refer to in the show, they call 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:11.400 it the circus the lawyers themselves because it is really 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:15.679 like a rolling show. And I think we all found 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:19.000 it intriguing. These people are supposed to be judged by 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:21.600 a jury of their peers, but their peers are from 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:23.960 the same small town or that same region, and so 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:27.160 how can you be judged both fairly by people who 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.760 probably haven't an idea of a view or have heard 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:34.240 the stories, but also if the jury knows each other 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:37.080 as well, that was kind of intriguing, whereas in the 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:40.720 city scape we can't have, you know that the jury, 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:42.840 none of the jury members would know each other. But 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:45.360 we felt like it added a whole new layer and 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:47.720 texture to the jury room. 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:50.720 It does, and I think I like the overall question 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:54.640 can the twelve really be impartial when they come from 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:58.880 such that tight rural community, And that's what's fascinating about 0:09:58.880 --> 0:09:59.319 this series. 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:03.959 Yeah, can anyone? Though, I mean, it's one thing we 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:07.800 all ask about juries. They're human beings, you know, dealing 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:11.240 with things outside our workplace and in this case, they're 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:13.640 kind of contained in a workplace that is the jury. 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:16.200 You know, when things are going wrong in your home life, 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:19.000 or if things are triggered by you know, things that 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:22.800 you're hearing in the trial, you're triggering personal things. You know, 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:26.080 You're all bringing your preconceptions and your own ethics and 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:30.480 your own life story to this case. And I guess 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:33.319 that's one of the things that we always want to explore, 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:37.440 is how the case is affecting the jury's current life 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:41.439 and vice versa. How is the juror's current life affecting 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:44.280 their perception of the trial. I think that's one of 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:45.520 the fascinating questions. 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:47.600 What about Sam Neil we were talking about, you know, 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:49.880 this series could do series three, you could do series ten, 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:52.640 like could go for a long time. What do you thought, Well, 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:54.679 do we have to always have Sam Neil? Do you 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:57.440 think it's imperative? Did you wait to hear that Sam 0:10:57.480 --> 0:10:59.920 Neil was going to do it before going ahead with 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:02.200 series two? Was that a crucial element? 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.840 I'm going to say, from a personal place, what is 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:09.840 anything without Sam? Now? I love I mean, I love 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:13.160 this man. I you know, I could honestly sit and 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:17.760 listen to him reading anything and just be fascinated because 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:21.839 he's so charming and such a wonderful screen presence. Technically, no, 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:25.200 we could have. When we first started the plans for 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:27.959 season two, we didn't think Sam would come back. Wow, 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:30.240 it never you know, we just didn't have that on 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:34.240 the radar, and so you know, we were questioning, are 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:36.120 there any characters that we want to have back from 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.400 season one? Or could you just start fresh? And I 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:42.400 think we all agreed that you could have started fresh 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:45.439 in the second season. I think now that we've had 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:48.360 Sam back, and thankfully he did come back, because he 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:50.760 adds so much to it, I would hate to go 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:54.160 forward without him. I mean, technically it's possible, because you 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:57.800 could obviously, since it isn't that anthology sense, you could 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:01.080 find yourself in and another season and with another group 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:05.040 of lawyers or even you know, perhaps a prosecutor instead. 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:07.679 But I would hope that we don't it doesn't come 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.760 to that, because I think he would be a loss. 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:14.079 You can't set up sort of Kabakova or whatever it 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:17.199 was from Murder she wrote, and not have Angela Lansbury back. 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:22.559 You know what I mean, right, Yeah, he's definitely a 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:26.040 crucial piece of the puzzle for me anyway, then let's 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:26.880 see how we roll. 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:29.040 You know, I had a lot of conversations to with 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:31.960 Brian Walsh while the first season of the twelve was 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:34.680 going into production, and I heard about his passion for 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.959 this series. He really believed in this series. I would 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:39.400 like to know from you, because I know you've got 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:41.360 to work with him. What was one of some of 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:43.960 your memories about working with Brian Walsh with getting this 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:45.480 series together that you cherish? 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:49.280 I guess, oh, look specifically, I mean, God love Brian. 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:53.680 He was really such an amazing part of our industry 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:57.920 and he's still sadly missed. So yeah, look, he was 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:01.720 just enthusiastic. I think when you've got Brian's enthusiasm, you 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:04.320 feel like you're just on the right path and you 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:07.200 can't you know, you feel very supported and buoyed by that. 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:11.400 I can remember pitching him the Crime for the second season, 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:15.320 and that was on a zoom and obviously with other 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:20.520 members of the team, including Penny Win, but he listened. 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:23.720 There was just silence, as there often is when I'm 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:26.440 talking about a story and you kind of don't know 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:28.360 how it's going down so well when it's on a 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.280 pitch because you know, seeing people's faces, there's often like 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:34.240 six seven people all in little boxes on the screen. 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:39.440 But I remember him saying something like I can't remember 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:44.000 the exact words, but he was like, this is fantastic, 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:47.440 this is amazing, And so your heart just goes through 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.480 the roof because you know that you've got Brian's support 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:53.880 and you know that he feels safe that you're going 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:57.440 to deliver something that he's going to enjoy. And all 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:00.960 I remember is the enthusiasm and very few notes, which 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:05.360 is also fantastic When that happens, that's a compliment within itself. 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.440 What does a Foxtel look like though now without Brian? 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:11.400 Like Allison Hubert Burns is there and well she'd been 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:13.920 there working with Brian for quite a few years at 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:17.760 that point. How has Foxtel changed making a show? Have 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:21.080 you noticed his absence? I look, it's hard to take 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:24.240 Brian out of a situation and not feel there's some 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:27.200 kind of whole. But I think it's more about, you know, 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:32.280 genuinely missing him as a person. And he had incredible 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:37.480 energy and the kind of thrusting energy around the projects 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:42.200 and around people, and he would grab new talent and 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.240 kind of say we need something for this person, and 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.480 so there was a lot of development kind of push 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:51.760 around Brian that I'm not sure whether that is still 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:54.480 the case there, but I know that from my experience 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:59.280 on this season, they're incredibly involved. Penny Winners is a 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:03.760 wonderful consultant for them, and you know, she gives us 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:08.480 thoughts that I think would echo what Brian's were and 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:13.040 her own of course, and Ali Herbert Burns came with 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:16.920 us on ARECI recently, so we all spent like three 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:21.080 days down in a regional area of Western Australia and 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:23.760 it was wonderful to have her there because you really 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:27.160 felt like she was bringing the same kind of support, 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:31.960 interest and passion to the project that Brian bought. And 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:35.080 I really don't think there's been any change to the 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:40.440 level of expertise or interest that there's still you know, 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:42.280 a wonderful team absolutely. 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:46.760 You know, it's interesting our contribution to scripted drama here 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:49.560 in Australia has just really leveled up in the last 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:52.720 couple of years. You know, we side settle HBO dramas 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:56.280 and you can see the level of our achievement has 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:59.200 just is matching that. What do you think the biggest 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:02.120 difference is in all the biggest change in the way 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:04.440 we approach storytelling here in Australia. 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:06.640 I think part of it is the fact that we're 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:11.720 now as an industry having to rely on co productions 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:15.880 with America and the UK much more than we ever had. Therefore, 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:19.160 our storytelling needs to be much more globle because people, 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:23.000 even though we're telling specific Australian's stories, the way we 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:26.240 tell them has to be more sophisticated at a global level. 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:30.800 I think there's been an understanding that some of the 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:35.280 more conventional, older ways of telling stories in Australian TV 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:37.800 are no longer going to fly globally. You've got a 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:41.680 whole bunch of new emerging voices coming through who are 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:46.600 very literate to how stories can be told in ways 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:50.240 that aren't conventional, or their personal stories so that you 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:53.200 know they have a personal spin on the way they're told. 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:57.760 I think all these factors are changing our storytelling for 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:00.560 the better. I think I felt like a lot of 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:04.560 my career I was boxed into the conventions according to 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:08.800 Australian TV, and now you know we're able to go, well, 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:12.399 how about we just tell the story well let's not 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.240 do it by a formula, and I think that's an 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:17.240 incredibly good thing for the industry. 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:19.640 Do you think that that can be then adopted by 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:21.560 some of those long running soaps that you've worked on, 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:23.359 you know, at different times you've worked on Home and 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:25.679 Away and Neighbors at different points of your career. Do 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:28.560 you think that sort of learning in telling stories will 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:30.840 be adopted by them or do you think that those 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:33.119 sorts of soaps are still stuck in that sort of 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:35.240 formula that they know that works. 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:39.240 Home and Away and Neighbors are their own animal and 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:43.880 they're very, very, very successful. So what they're doing has 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:48.280 always worked and possibly will always work. I think the 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:52.159 way that those the production demands on those shows, I mean, 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:54.720 it's almost impossible to do it any other way. You know, 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:59.160 they're putting out so much material, and I don't think 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:02.800 they're really need change. They are successful as themselves. I 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:06.160 admire everybody who's working on that kind of show that's 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:08.560 turning out like two and a half hours of television 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:09.000 a week. 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:11.680 You know, when we spoke last time, you were talking 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:14.760 to me about a project you're working on, and all 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:17.560 you told me was Charlie's thereon. That's all I think 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:20.919 we touched upon and you couldn't say anything more. But 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:23.240 I've dug something up on the internet. So like I 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:27.320 found Charlie's Barn's production company Denver and Delilah on a 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:30.560 pilot for HBO. Is what you're working with them to 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:32.440 get this project up and running. What can you tell 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.120 me about this project? Is this still happening? 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.520 It is notionally still happening, or we've had a couple 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:40.840 of things. I was working with her on another project 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:44.360 some years ago, like five or six years ago, and 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:48.600 actually this was set up at Netflix and we you know, 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.400 COVID hit and that show was to be shot in 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:55.480 four different countries, so that obviously had to go on 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.200 the back burner. And then of course post COVID, which 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:00.159 you know, it was there for two years, and then 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:03.200 post COVID, the option on the book could run out 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:07.560 and things had changed, and so I think that that's 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:09.919 now on the back burner. And then she asked me 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:13.560 to be part of another fantastic project, which was an 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:17.399 HBO pilot which I wrote, and then we had the 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:22.040 writer's strike and so I feel like and then by 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.240 the time that came back again, the option had run 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:28.760 out on the book, and there'd been a documentary series 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:32.320 of the same project put out and had run all 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:36.080 through the writer's strike. And I think it was felt 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:39.679 by HBO that the audience for that, even though it 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:42.920 was really good, it wasn't high enough to warrant doing 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:49.560 a period drama series. But you know, Charlie's is fierce, 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:54.720 and she's you know, an incredible producer, and she'll no 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:57.080 doubt take it elsewhere and it will have its day. 0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:01.160 But at the moment, we're just in a little what would. 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:04.080 I say, Well, we really suddenly seeing the real effects 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:05.960 of what that righter stroke is at the moment, you 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:08.080 know what I mean. Funny, you can go to the cinemas. 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:09.960 I was only at the movies the other night. And 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.880 I worked at the cinemas as growing up, so even 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:14.680 on a weeknight, people went to the movies. And you 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:16.199 know what I mean. Was that the movies the other day? 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:17.879 And I said to the guy that was serving as, 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:19.720 I said, you know, is it quiet at the moment? 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.280 He said, it's really quiet. You know, because back in 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.560 the day, we would have a Gladiator coming out every week. 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:28.480 You know, we would have Wicked coming out every week, 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:30.399 which is two big movies that are about to happen. 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:32.600 And it's sad that, you know, we're in the midst 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:35.800 of that. But I guess there's also so much of 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:38.280 our viewers and our attendance to go to see the 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:40.679 movies and now watching television. You know, there's also a 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:41.320 big element. 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:46.560 It's it is demoralizing what's happened to cinema. And I 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:50.200 mean as a person who has an incredibly long term 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:53.960 film buff and my you know, my goals and dreams 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:57.760 are around film, like the ultimate is you know, winning 0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:00.800 an Academy Award. That's still the ultimate for me. But 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:04.520 in this environment where films are no longer being made 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.119 in the same amount, people aren't going to the cinema. 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:10.800 Even myself. I used to go once or twice a 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:13.520 week because there'd always been a new film out on 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:15.879 the Thursday, and whether that was at an Arthouse film 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:18.080 and I was off to the Palace Cinema or I 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:21.359 was going to you know, Hoitts, I would be there 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:24.200 at least once a week. And now I can't remember 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:26.240 the last time I went to a film at the cinema. 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:30.000