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Speaker 1: As we learned yesterday, obviously those borders opened, and I

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Speaker 1: would suspect there's been a bit of an increase in

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Speaker 1: the number of people wanting to be tested as a

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Speaker 1: result of the requirements that the Northern Territory Government has

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Speaker 1: put in for all of those arrivals. And joining me

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Speaker 1: on the line is the Palmerston GP Superclinic CEO Robin Karl.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Good morning Katie. Robin.

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Speaker 1: Has there been an increase in the number of people

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Speaker 1: needing to be tested since yesterday?

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Speaker 3: Well, there's certainly been an increase in the number of

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Speaker 3: people needing to be tested over the last couple of weeks,

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Speaker 3: and my tips to the lab show me that there

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Speaker 3: is definitely an increase of the number of tests being

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Speaker 3: done and yesterday I think will start to see the

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Speaker 3: impact of that in the coming days.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we heard from the airport about two thousand arrivals

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Speaker 1: yesterday in Darwin and Alice Springs through the airport around

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Speaker 1: thirteen flights. Robin, I know that there are obviously those

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Government testing clinics, but the Superclinic does that

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Speaker 1: testing too. Are you seeing quite a large volume of

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Speaker 1: people needing to come in and what kind of numbers

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Speaker 1: are you talking.

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Speaker 3: So basically there's really only one testing service that the

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Speaker 3: government has put up and that's the Marara drive through,

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Speaker 3: and we have offered to assist with that testing. We

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Speaker 3: unfortunately have had to hold off implementing our entry testing

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Speaker 3: because there are still some logistics that we need to

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Speaker 3: resolve in terms of operability between systems and being able

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Speaker 3: to have people who do come to us for a

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Speaker 3: test have their tests uploaded into the compliance system for

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Speaker 3: the Northern Territory government. So I'm really hopeful that we

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Speaker 3: can see that resolves in the not too distant future.

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Speaker 3: So what we've done in the interim is offered to

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Speaker 3: the Department of Health that we will focus on the

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Speaker 3: exit testing because there's also a huge increase in people

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Speaker 3: requiring exit testing because just the same for US people

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Speaker 3: coming in here, people are requiring to have tests when

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Speaker 3: they're traveling to other states and territories within the nor

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Speaker 3: Australia not probably as onerous because most of the other

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Speaker 3: states and territories are focusing on people coming from Red Zone.

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Speaker 3: So for example, if people have decided to have a

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Speaker 3: driving holiday to Queensland and they have to drive to

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Speaker 3: the red zone that is the Catherine or the Barkley region,

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Speaker 3: then they must have a test within seventy two hours

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Speaker 3: of arrival to the Queensland border. A couple of the

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Speaker 3: other states and territories are requiring tests no matter where

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Speaker 3: you're coming from, and West Australia being the most obvious one.

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Speaker 3: They've pretty well had the requirement for testing to entry

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Speaker 3: to Western Australia since the whole pandemic started. So just

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Speaker 3: as an example, we probably would do maybe one hundred

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Speaker 3: and fifty exit tests a week. In the last two

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Speaker 3: weeks that's increased to six to seven hundred.

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Speaker 1: Wow, six to seven hundred exit tests a week at

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Speaker 1: this point.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So it's been an interesting, an interesting cust of

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Speaker 3: weeks as people are madly scrambling to get their tests

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Speaker 3: done before Christmas. One of the things that we have

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Speaker 3: seen is an increase in testing turnaround time. And I

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Speaker 3: have to say, the guys at the pathology lab are

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Speaker 3: working so so hard, and every time I go in there,

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Speaker 3: I just feel so much for them because they are

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Speaker 3: literally swimming in swabs and they are working around the

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Speaker 3: clock to try and get these results through the people,

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Speaker 3: and I just think they're the people that we don't see.

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Speaker 3: We don't see them on the front line because they

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Speaker 3: are literally buried in the lower depth of the hospital

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Speaker 3: at Rozalwin, and they just are doing such a fantastic job.

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Speaker 3: And I think people need to when they get a

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Speaker 3: little bit frustrated about how long it's taking for results

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Speaker 3: to come in, they just do need to keep in

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Speaker 3: mind that they are working around the clock for them.

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Speaker 1: How long do those tests usually take to be returned?

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Speaker 3: Before the border entry changes started to come into play

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Speaker 3: in the last two to three weeks across the country,

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Speaker 3: we were usually getting results within the twenty four to

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Speaker 3: thirty six hours. We're now finding that it's much closer

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Speaker 3: to the forty eight and sometimes seventy six hours. And

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Speaker 3: some advice we've had from people who've had testing at

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Speaker 3: both outside and the Malorit testing facility is that sometimes

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Speaker 3: it's taking even longer longer, with some people saying that

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Speaker 3: they've been waiting three to four days for those results

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Speaker 3: to come through because the volumes testing is such that

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Speaker 3: it really is creating that backlog in terms of process,

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Speaker 3: and we're seeing the same thing across the country. I

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Speaker 3: think that's the same people need to realize as well.

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Speaker 3: So literally everybody who leaves near South Wales a Victorian,

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Speaker 3: no matter where they're going to, they must get a

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Speaker 3: test before they leave. And if you think of the

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Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands of people that are being tested there,

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Speaker 3: we're seeing a risk of our pathology system collapsing. Everybody's

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Speaker 3: been worried about the hospital system not coping, but what

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Speaker 3: we're actually seeing now is our pathology testing system on

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Speaker 3: the the just collapse because there are so many tests

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Speaker 3: being done for lots and lots of reasons, not just

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Speaker 3: because people are feeling unwell.

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Speaker 1: And do you think, Robin, that that's a concern nation

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Speaker 1: wide or is that a concern for us here in

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory as well?

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Speaker 2: When you talk about pathology collapsing.

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Speaker 3: I think it's definitely a concern, not just for the

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Speaker 3: territory and nationwide, because the more that you need to

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Speaker 3: do the testing, you've still only got the same resources

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Speaker 3: that we've had in place for the last few months.

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Speaker 3: There's certainly been an increase in resourcing for all. Dullen

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Speaker 3: and the Department of Health worked hard to increase that,

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Speaker 3: but at the end of the day, you can only

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Speaker 3: do as much as your machine reallows as the number

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Speaker 3: of people you have on staff can do, and certainly

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Speaker 3: was seen in New South Wales and Victorian in particular,

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Speaker 3: where the systems are really growning under the strain. And

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Speaker 3: I think I heard a report today in some cases

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Speaker 3: people are waiting, even with appointments up to eight hours

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Speaker 3: in line in the other states and territories to have

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Speaker 3: that test done. And most of the testing that seems

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Speaker 3: to be being does seem to be that exit pace,

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Speaker 3: think from their home state and the entry requirements into

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Speaker 3: other states and territories. So you know, maybe we should

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Speaker 3: be using rapid answer to more. I don't know, I

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Speaker 3: think that, or maybe we really need to sort of

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Speaker 3: take a step back and go, well, you know, we're

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Speaker 3: at that ninety two percent, that magic number the vaccination rate.

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Speaker 3: I know there's concern around omicron, but the reality is

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Speaker 3: that this virus is progressing the way we need it to.

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Speaker 3: It's becoming less virulent, more transmissible, but less people getting

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Speaker 3: really unwell. So maybe we just really need to rethink

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Speaker 3: the whole strategy. And there are certainly some experts in

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Speaker 3: the health arena who are saying we probably need to

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Speaker 3: stop focusing on the testing and we're in the numbers

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Speaker 3: of people being tested and even the numbers of positive cases,

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Speaker 3: and really start focusing on the number of hospitalizations and

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Speaker 3: the people who are unwell rather than it's kind of like,

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Speaker 3: do we still count how many people get the common cold?

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Speaker 3: We don't talk about how many people get influenza. We

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Speaker 3: really maybe have to start thinking about we're at that

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Speaker 3: point now where we have to make that next transmission

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Speaker 3: as we manage the pandemic from the pandemic to an endemic,

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Speaker 3: and maybe stop publishing the numbers every day that seem

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Speaker 3: to stress people out so much and just really focus

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Speaker 3: on is our system able to cope with the people

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Speaker 3: who are unwell and require hospitalization? And that needs to

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Speaker 3: be what we look at.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, certainly a discussion I reckon that that more and

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Speaker 1: more people are starting to have and starting to wonder

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Speaker 1: if we need to move down that path. And I

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Speaker 1: tell you what, you know, when you look at all

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Speaker 1: the number of tests that need to be done, even

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Speaker 1: for people when they arrive here in the Northern Territory,

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Speaker 1: you do wonder exactly how pathology is going to be

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Speaker 1: able to cope with such a high volume of tests.

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Speaker 1: Can I just ask Rob, and I know that there's

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Speaker 1: lots of people listening this morning who've got some.

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Speaker 2: Real kind of operational questions.

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Speaker 1: And the Health Minister had said on the show a

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Speaker 1: little bit earlier that no, you don't have to pay

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Speaker 1: to get the tests if you are leaving the territory

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Speaker 1: or if you're coming back in you and I've spoken

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Speaker 1: about this before, can you just talk us through what

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Speaker 1: the situation is that your clinic if people do need

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Speaker 1: to have a test done if they're exiting the territory.

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Speaker 3: So if they're exiting the territory and they need documentation,

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Speaker 3: then there is a fee, and that's primarily because of

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Speaker 3: the documentation that they need. So anybody who's traveling internationally,

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Speaker 3: they absolutely need documentation. An SMS text message for a

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Speaker 3: result is not accepted by other countries or at the

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Speaker 3: airport if they're traveling internationally, so we charge fifty dollars

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Speaker 3: to that. I'm aware of some other facility providers around

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Speaker 3: who are charging upwards of three hundreds to six hundred

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Speaker 3: dollars success, which quite frankly, I think is outrages and

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Speaker 3: an absolute example of profiteering that really should be called out.

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Speaker 3: And I guess that's what I'm doing. We charge a

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Speaker 3: small fee just to cover the time that it takes

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Speaker 3: to process the documentation, get them out to people and

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Speaker 3: make sure that we can get them on their way.

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Speaker 3: Some stafey territories are requiring of documentations for some people.

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Speaker 3: So for example, some truck drivers need more than just

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Speaker 3: the SMS that we send, so they might need to

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Speaker 3: get some documentation and we do charge a small fee

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Speaker 3: for that. But I am pleased to say that where

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Speaker 3: people are happy just to have the SMS text and

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Speaker 3: where that's all that they require to cross their border

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Speaker 3: or to get where they're going, than the Northern Territory

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Speaker 3: government and we're working with them to be able to

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Speaker 3: provide that service to people at no charge.

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Speaker 1: And Robin in most other states within Australia, is the

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Speaker 1: SMS enough?

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Speaker 3: I think so. I think from what people have said

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Speaker 3: to us, that's generally been sufficient. I think one of

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Speaker 3: the challenges is that, particularly when they're crossing borders by road,

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Speaker 3: it really does depend on who they get on the

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Speaker 3: border crossing. So some people on border crossings appear to

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Speaker 3: be quite happy to accept the text message, whilst others

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Speaker 3: are demanding and requiring us far more detailed written evidence

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Speaker 3: of the tests. So for that reason, what we found

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Speaker 3: is there are a lot of people who come in

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Speaker 3: and say, look, I don't really think I need this,

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Speaker 3: but I just don't want to take the risks, so

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Speaker 3: I've decided to come and have it done and get

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Speaker 3: my documentation. So there's absolutely no question that I've had

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Speaker 3: this test done and that I've tisted negative. And maybe

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Speaker 3: I know it's been really frustrating to people that every

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Speaker 3: state and territory has had a different set of reals,

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Speaker 3: and I have to tell you the change is so

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Speaker 3: often for us we find that quite frustrating as well.

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Speaker 3: Maybe we really need the states and territories to really

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Speaker 3: once and for all get together, take a decision and

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Speaker 3: stick to it and all be doing the same thing.

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Speaker 3: That would just make life so much easier, not just

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Speaker 3: for our population, but also for our testing providers, because

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Speaker 3: then they would know that they're not doing tests that

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Speaker 3: don't need to be done. So people would have confidence

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Speaker 3: that no matter where they went, if this was the rule,

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Speaker 3: that's what they'd be asked to provide and supply. Yes,

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Speaker 3: at the moment, with the different different requirements across different borders,

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Speaker 3: people just don't want to take the risk. So if

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Speaker 3: you've packed your family into the car and you're thinking

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Speaker 3: you're going to Grandma's for Christmas, the last thing they

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Speaker 3: want to do is when they hit the border be told, oh, sorry,

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Speaker 3: that's not good enough, We're not going to let you in.

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Speaker 3: But if we could just get some consistency, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: it would just make life so much easier for.

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Speaker 2: Everybody, wouldn't it just?

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Speaker 1: And I think that it would make such a difference

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Speaker 1: for so many Aussies, particularly at this time of the year,

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Speaker 1: as everybody's looking at traveling and there is still so

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Speaker 1: much confusion, I know, Robin. One of the other things

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Speaker 1: that you just touched on is, obviously are those rapid

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Speaker 1: antigen tests. The acting Chief Minister had said that in

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Speaker 1: some cases a rapid antigen test rather than a PCR

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Speaker 1: could be an option. It seems to be for people

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Speaker 1: who would find it harder to maybe access one of

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Speaker 1: those PCR tests.

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Speaker 2: Have you had many questions around this.

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Speaker 3: We've had quite a few people coming in asking for

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Speaker 3: rapid engine and I'm really pleased to say that the

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Speaker 3: Department of Field has provided us with a supply so

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Speaker 3: we can do those for people. Again, if they're happy,

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Speaker 3: just there's a lot there's lots of ways you can

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Speaker 3: do it, so they can just take a screenshot from

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Speaker 3: their phone so they've had it done and it was negative.

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Speaker 3: Other places are demanding that some documentation be provided and

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Speaker 3: we're happy to assist with that as well as a

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Speaker 3: small fee for the preparation of that. But generically, if

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Speaker 3: they come into a rapid engine, they can take them away.

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Speaker 3: They can We're able to hand them out to people,

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Speaker 3: so they could potentially go where they're going and stand

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Speaker 3: on the border and do their rapid engage in the

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Speaker 3: wait fifteen minutes improved that their COVID around And that's

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Speaker 3: a great way to maybe look at some of these

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Speaker 3: things because the rapid engine will tell you if you've

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Speaker 3: got that initial infection, and there is a small risk

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Speaker 3: of a false positive. From everything I've seen in the

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Speaker 3: research I've done, there's not a risk of a false negative.

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Speaker 3: So that's the most important thing. And if someone does

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Speaker 3: get a positive, the first thing they do then is

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Speaker 3: do a full PCR and they'll allow to go, oh,

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Speaker 3: that was a false positive. You've got COVID. We need

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Speaker 3: to get your sorted. So I think we probably could

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Speaker 3: be using those a little more frequently and more effectively

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Speaker 3: than there. I know that that was the initial plan

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Speaker 3: for people entering the territory to do a rapid eergine

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Speaker 3: at the airport. Obviously when you've got hundreds of people

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Speaker 3: coming in having to waite system, and that was always

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Speaker 3: going to be problematic. But maybe there's another way of

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Speaker 3: doing that that it doesn't become doesn't clog up the

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Speaker 3: system the way that initially did, and maybe we could

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Speaker 3: use them a little bit more frequently so that we

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Speaker 3: do ease the pressure on our pathology labs and so

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Speaker 3: we can just really focus on the high risk groups.

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Speaker 3: So you know, I know, maybe we could be a

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Speaker 3: bit radical and go I know the territory decided they

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Speaker 3: didn't want to do green zones and red zones, but

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Speaker 3: maybe we should be just saying if you're from a

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Speaker 3: red zone, you have to have a full piecer, and

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Speaker 3: if you're from a green zone, we'll do a rapid

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Speaker 3: agin test before you know, when you come in and

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Speaker 3: get somewhere for people to go just to do it

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Speaker 3: to take system and it takes.

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Speaker 2: That long for your bags to come out, Well that's

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Speaker 2: exactly alright.

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Speaker 3: You could do it well yeah, exactly, just do this

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Speaker 3: while you're waiting. I just think that we need to

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Speaker 3: get a little more creative. We need to make it

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Speaker 3: a little less scary for people, that's the other thing.

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Speaker 3: And we need to actually start sending the message that

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Speaker 3: this virus isn't go anywhere. It's part of our daily life. Yes,

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Speaker 3: we've still got a little waste to go before we

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Speaker 3: can go, park it in a corner and go. We're

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Speaker 3: not worried about you anymore, COVID because we've got it covered.

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Speaker 3: But I think if we just take a more practical,

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Speaker 3: calm approach, we can get there in a less problematic way.

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Speaker 1: Well, Robin Carl, I always appreciate your time, and we

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Speaker 1: really appreciate you raising quite a few different things here

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Speaker 1: that we can have a bit of a think about.

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Speaker 2: I hope you have a lovely Christmas and New Year,

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Speaker 2: and no doubt we'll talk to you again in the

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Speaker 2: new year.

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Speaker 3: I'm the same to you, Katie, and the same to

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Speaker 3: all your lists. It's been quite the year for the territory,

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Speaker 3: so onward and upwards.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's hope, Robin, thanks so much for your time

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Speaker 1: this morning and all throughout the year.

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Speaker 2: We really appreciate it.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Katie, Thanks