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Speaker 1: We know the Northern Territory Police Association is once again

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Speaker 1: raising concerns about police watchhouses being at full capacity, impacting officers'

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Speaker 1: ability to do their jobs. We've known for quite some

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Speaker 1: time that corrections are indeed understrained, but it's understood that

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Speaker 1: the Darwin Watchhouse is solely being used for corrections prisoners

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Speaker 1: at the moment, with the Palmerston Watchhouse used by both

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Speaker 1: corrections and police. Now the Association president Nathan Finn joins

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Speaker 1: me in the studio right now.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Finny, Good morning Kattie, Good morning to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us today. Now tell me

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Speaker 1: what is the situation with the watch houses at this

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Speaker 1: point in time.

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Speaker 2: So the situation is currently on Monday, I was contacted

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Speaker 2: by members of the police force saying that they had

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Speaker 2: inability to lodge our prisoners into our custody facility due

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Speaker 2: to the demands being placed on that facility by the

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Speaker 2: correction's overflow prisoners.

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Speaker 1: So does that mean the Darwin watch House or both

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Speaker 1: watch houses that is.

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Speaker 2: The Parmeston watchess are were only operating the Parmeston Watchause

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Speaker 2: for the whole of Darwen area at the moment.

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Speaker 1: And we can't get people in there at the moment,

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Speaker 1: that's correct.

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Speaker 2: So we had police prisoners we had to wait till

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Speaker 2: other people had been released before we could release them

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Speaker 2: and put them into our custody. We're at capacity, Katie,

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Speaker 2: and this is putting great strain on our members of

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Speaker 2: the police force that obviously working in that environment to

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Speaker 2: start with. But as of this morning, we had ninety

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Speaker 2: eight corrections prisoners in that watchhouse. It's not built for

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Speaker 2: a permanent facility for the corrections prisoners. There's no where

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Speaker 2: to exercise, there's no where to move. That's placing severe

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Speaker 2: risk on the operational staffing and that in that capacity.

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Speaker 1: So Finny, let me get this really clear in my head.

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Speaker 1: So ninety eight corrections, you know, like prisoners in the

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Speaker 1: Palmerston Watchhouse.

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Speaker 2: Talk of our prisoners as well that we've got in custody.

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Speaker 2: So we've got a situation where we're running out of space.

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Speaker 2: So any arrests that we have are potentially going to

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Speaker 2: be turned away if we don't actually do something about

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Speaker 2: this now. Going to the government and speaking to the

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Speaker 2: Chief Minister on Monday night and speaking to the Minister

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Speaker 2: for Corrections mister Mayley. As of recently this morning again

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Speaker 2: and trying to find solutions. I understand that the CLP

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Speaker 2: have inherited this problem. I understand that this has been

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Speaker 2: a problem for a number of years that they've been

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Speaker 2: passed on to. They are doing everything they possibly can

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Speaker 2: to make sure expediate the openings of beds, but they

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Speaker 2: also need staff corrections. Are feeling sorry for corrections because

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Speaker 2: they've got this influx of numbers. I believe it's up

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Speaker 2: around two hundred prisoners since the CLP where all the

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Speaker 2: bail laws actually come into place and the great awareness

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Speaker 2: is being placed on these people into custody.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is the thing we are expecting that there's

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Speaker 1: going to be more people going into prison. Can I

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Speaker 1: just so there are a lot of our listeners are

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Speaker 1: going to probably be feeling like I am at the

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Speaker 1: moment where I'm going, Okay, I remember that you know

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Speaker 1: that our watch houses were quite full with corrections, you know,

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Speaker 1: with corrections prisoners. But so we're in a situation right

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Speaker 1: now where the watch house in Darwin is not being

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Speaker 1: used by police at all.

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Speaker 2: It's not being used by police, Katie. That's correct. There's

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Speaker 2: from what I'm being told this morning, and I've spoken

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Speaker 2: to Ken Middlebrook as well from the Minister's office again

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Speaker 2: this morning. Who can is around fifty in the day

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Speaker 2: on watchhouse that's solely operated by correction stuff, that's no

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Speaker 2: police footprint whatsoever. The only one with the joint facility

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Speaker 2: is the Parmesan Watchhouse. They currently have ninety eight prisoners

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Speaker 2: there on top of our prisons as well. We had

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Speaker 2: one hundred and thirteen people in custody there this morning

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Speaker 2: and we got limited sALS to put any new people into.

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Speaker 1: What kind of strain is this placing then on the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police if you're in a situation like we

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Speaker 1: were in. So from what you've said earlier in the week,

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police couldn't actually take prisoners then to

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Speaker 1: the Palmiston or couldn't take you know, those that had

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Speaker 1: broken the law to the watchouse on Monday.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So when it starts affecting our police operations, I

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Speaker 2: have to step in and I have to say something.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to work with the government to expediate additional beds.

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Speaker 2: They've promised me an initial thirty six beds at the

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Speaker 2: bar correctional facility by the end of the week to

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Speaker 2: alleviate some further pressures. But this is going to escalate

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Speaker 2: as we move into Christmas and we move into legislation

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Speaker 2: changes coming forward. The moment is that correct and I'm

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Speaker 2: feeling sorry for corrections. They haven't got the staff to

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Speaker 2: maintain this level of prisoners either. Then it's something needs

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Speaker 2: to actually change and needs to change now for the

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Speaker 2: positive to make sure that we can do what we

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Speaker 2: need to do as police because the community expects that,

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Speaker 2: and the community's got that expectation that if someone is

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Speaker 2: doing something wrong, we can lock them up absolutely before

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Speaker 2: the court.

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Speaker 1: So finny what happens in a situation like the one

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Speaker 1: that we were in earlier in the week where there

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Speaker 1: wasn't capacity to then take them to the Palmerston Watchhouse?

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Speaker 1: Where are they being taken?

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Speaker 2: So a lot of the issues and a lot of

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Speaker 2: the delays are with the digital program and the judicial services.

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Speaker 2: I've been advised that we're looking at extra hours for

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Speaker 2: running courts, extra courts, et cetera. We've got a huge

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Speaker 2: backlog of a remand prisoners they're they're they're maintained when

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Speaker 2: they are in remand they're placed at a medium or

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Speaker 2: high risk in the prison system. Which corrections can obviously

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Speaker 2: go into that further, but we're running out of beds

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Speaker 2: in that medium to high section. We've got plenty of

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Speaker 2: low beds available in those in those in the in

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Speaker 2: the in the correction facilities, but that's where're at. The

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Speaker 2: remand prisons automatically go to that because they're not assessed.

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Speaker 2: They're not actually they're on remand so we need to

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Speaker 2: get these people before court.

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Speaker 1: So just on on the situation where where police weren't

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Speaker 1: able to take them to the watchhouse on Monday in Palmerston,

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Speaker 1: where are they then going if someone's broken the law.

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Speaker 2: That they weren't actually turned away Katie, they are actually

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Speaker 2: they waited there until they cared it right people from

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Speaker 2: the watchouse to the courts.

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Speaker 1: So then that's a strain I would imagine on the police.

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Speaker 1: So what are you doing keeping them in the back

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Speaker 1: of a paddywagon or keeping them somewhere inside that's not actually.

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Speaker 2: And we're to the point where we're placing holding where

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Speaker 2: we have holding cells where their process while we bring

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Speaker 2: them into custody and process them into the watchhouse, they're

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Speaker 2: actually being held in there permanently.

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Speaker 1: So that's the level of what kind of stress is

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Speaker 1: this placing. It's clear to me it's a huge stress

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Speaker 1: on Corrections and look, I've spoken to Corrections about that.

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Speaker 1: We'll make sure that we catch up with Matthew Valley.

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Speaker 1: But from a policing perspective, what kind of stress is

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Speaker 1: that then placing on police? When the watch house is

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Speaker 1: at capacity, it's a huge risk.

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Speaker 2: Katie, and our members are identifying that a number of

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Speaker 2: them actually can't actually deal with the problem. They're actually

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Speaker 2: booking off from there, coming quite unwell because of the

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Speaker 2: stress that's being placed on them to look after these facilities.

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Speaker 2: I'm not condoning this, but again, everyone gets to their

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Speaker 2: breaking point, and unfortunately, our members are at their breaking point.

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Speaker 2: We need to have that ability to lock up who

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Speaker 2: we need to lock up and make sure we keep

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Speaker 2: the community safe, and that's what our members join for.

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Speaker 1: Finny, like, do you think that the reason why the

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Speaker 1: watch houses are so full, you know, not only in

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Speaker 1: terms of prisoners, but also in terms of those being arrested,

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Speaker 1: is much of that because the police have really been

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Speaker 1: targeting things like domestic violence. They've been doing you know,

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Speaker 1: what the community wants and expects.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, Katie, and we've been asked to do this for

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Speaker 2: a long long time. So I make no apologies to

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Speaker 2: anyone that there's more people in custody. Again, if they

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Speaker 2: weren't committing these offenses, they wouldn't be in custody. Our

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Speaker 2: police are there to do their job and make sure

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Speaker 2: the community is protected. And if people are committing offenses,

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Speaker 2: the community expects that they're locked up. Katie.

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Speaker 1: So to our listeners this morning that are hearing this,

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Speaker 1: and they're going, goodness mate, like a wee in a

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Speaker 1: situation we you know, we cannot get people into the

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Speaker 1: watch house because it's bursting at the steam.

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Speaker 2: We are getting them into the watchaut that's good that

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Speaker 2: and we're making sure that that's available with the additional

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Speaker 2: beds coming online. And then I'll reassure that the additional

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Speaker 2: beds and Alice Springs are becoming online. There's a few

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Speaker 2: moves that they need to do in respect to the

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Speaker 2: Youth facility and Alice Springs and moving the remainder of

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Speaker 2: the youths out of there up to Darwin Present enter

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Speaker 2: the Youth facility and now the women prison down and

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Speaker 2: Alice Springs to create that extra bed and extra backload

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 1: So you know, look, it's so clear to me, and

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Speaker 1: even after the discussions that we've been having over the

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Speaker 1: last few months, you know, Corrections are doing all that

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Speaker 1: they can to try to move you know, move prisoners

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Speaker 1: around and move things around. It's clear that you know

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Speaker 1: that they if we could have more staff that I'm

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Speaker 1: sure they would want more stuff. It's clear that we

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Speaker 1: need more police as well. But the police and Corrections

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Speaker 1: are doing the jobs that community you know that the

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Speaker 1: Territorians expect, and.

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Speaker 2: We'll continue to do that. Katie and the government are

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Speaker 2: providing as much support as they can without magically appearing

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Speaker 2: in new custody facility. They are trying to do and

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Speaker 2: they're trying to work with us to make sure that

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Speaker 2: this pressures alleviated as soon as possible. This is unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: there's something they've inherited and that that's well known. Katie

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Speaker 2: and I feel sorry for the current Corrections Commissioner and

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Speaker 2: the current Corrections Minister about this taking place. But the

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Speaker 2: mess when it starts affecting our police operations, we need

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Speaker 2: to say something. We need to say something and support

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Speaker 2: our membership to make sure that they can do the

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Speaker 2: job that they need to do.

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Speaker 1: Finny, I do want to move along because there is

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Speaker 1: quite a bit going on in terms of police being assaulted. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: so we've seen a situation where things appear to have

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Speaker 1: flared up again in Alice Springs. One incident on the weekend,

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Speaker 1: a group of views allegedly threw rocks at a police

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Speaker 1: and tried to ram police vehicles in stolen cars. Are

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Speaker 1: those police okay?

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Speaker 2: Those police are They're obviously traumatized by the events. And

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Speaker 2: further to that, Katie, they were actually driven at when

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Speaker 2: they were trying to deploy the tie deflation devisors to

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Speaker 2: the point.

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Speaker 1: Where so they're out of the car to put those times, yes.

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Speaker 2: And they've driven at the person. He's had to remove

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Speaker 2: his firearm and point of firearm in the direction because

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Speaker 2: he was in fear of his life and he's safety

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Speaker 2: at that point in time.

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Speaker 1: So this was on the weekend.

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Speaker 2: This is just on the weekend Allie Springs, and unfortunately

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Speaker 2: we talk about this time and time again. The youths

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Speaker 2: are out of control there in Elie Springs. We're trying

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Speaker 2: to do everything we possibly can. We've got more police

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Speaker 2: on the road and Alice Springs what we do in

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Speaker 2: daw and so that gives you an example of the

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Speaker 2: level of crime we're dealing within Elie Springs and the

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Speaker 2: surrounding communities.

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Speaker 1: How side deflation device, someone's driving at you to the

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Speaker 1: point where you're feeling as though you've got to pull

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Speaker 1: the firearm out because that's your only option.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, And that plays on your mind as well, Cardie,

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Speaker 2: if you do have to pull that trigger. Having been

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Speaker 2: in that situation a few times as well across my career,

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Speaker 2: it's something that plays on your mind for a long

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Speaker 2: long time and the danger that you're potentially you're going

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Speaker 2: to be placed in simply doing your job and protecting

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Speaker 2: the community. But that alone, that assault in Elie Springs

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Speaker 2: was only obviously the tip of the iceberg. The one

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Speaker 2: and Melocarpey the week before, where the behavior towards police

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Speaker 2: was animal like behavior. Biding an officer and kicking you

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Speaker 2: into his unconscious is not exceptplicating in anyone's mind. We

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Speaker 2: also had that hasn't been released just yet. We had

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Speaker 2: earlier to sold at Timber Creek earlier this week, where

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Speaker 2: the two officers went to a resturant offender. At that

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Speaker 2: point in time, they're thrown a hot cup of tea

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Speaker 2: in the members' faces and cause burns to their faces

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Speaker 2: and receive treatment from those burns as well. Are they okay,

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Speaker 2: They're okay. We're in contact with them. That hasn't been

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Speaker 2: released to the media just yet.

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Speaker 1: Are they What kind of burns are we talking here?

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Speaker 1: Are they severe burns?

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Speaker 2: The severe enough for cause redness to the face area.

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Speaker 2: He's lucky he had to see sunglasses on at the time,

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Speaker 2: so it hasn't gone into his eyes around his eyes area.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, not a good situation. They're just trying to

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Speaker 2: do their job, but our guys need to be protected

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Speaker 2: and these people placed before the courts.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty horrifying when you look at some of what

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Speaker 1: is going on, some of the behavior towards the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory Police. I mean, what do you think is going

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Speaker 1: on here? Finny? Like, do you think that we've got

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Speaker 1: a generation of young people who've got no respect for

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Speaker 1: the police. What do you think is happening?

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Speaker 2: Just no respect for the police, Curti, it's respect for anyone, anyone.

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Speaker 2: We've seen the administ x administrator in Alice Springs House

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Speaker 2: get broken into last week as well. Any's fearful situation

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Speaker 2: that's been reported through the many yeares today. There's no

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Speaker 2: respect for anyone. There's no respect for their elders, there's

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Speaker 2: no respect even for their fellow friends or their mates.

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Speaker 2: There's no respect whatsoever. They show their total disregard for

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Speaker 2: anyone in society, and they feel free to do whatever

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Speaker 2: they feel like they don't want to do.

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Speaker 1: What are the members in Alice Springs saying to you

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Speaker 1: at the moment, all right across the board? I mean,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about something happening there in Timber Creek, You're

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Speaker 1: talking about an incident in Milicarpady. You're then talking about

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Speaker 1: that incident in Alice Springs. All of those are on

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Speaker 1: I would imagine what would be considered quite a severe

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Speaker 1: scale in terms of what's unfolded. How are they.

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Speaker 2: They the members struggle and the members. As soon as

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Speaker 2: you are assaulted, there's a lot of things that go

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Speaker 2: through your mind, Cadie, in the mental anguish that this

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Speaker 2: places you in, especially if it's contamination, it's blood tests,

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Speaker 2: et cetera, if you are bitten, the results for waiting

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Speaker 2: for that, the pressure that it places on you, and

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Speaker 2: the doubt it places on you in your mind when

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Speaker 2: you go to arrest the next person, whether you think

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Speaker 2: that's going to happen again is unacceptable, Codie, and these

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Speaker 2: people need to be held to response responsible for that.

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Speaker 2: Our members struggle with it and have continued to struggle

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Speaker 2: and will continue to struggle. But unfortunately Allie Springs does

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Speaker 2: get a fair bit of media attention. Just say this

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Speaker 2: is right across the Northern Territory and you'll see, as

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Speaker 2: we said, timber Creek, Miller Carpady, these are communities that

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Speaker 2: well known for their community harmony, their community, their good

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Speaker 2: community spirit towards police. Unfortunately, we're seeing this target of

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Speaker 2: police right across the Northern Territory and it's totally unacceptable.

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Speaker 2: Our members aren't going to put up with this.

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Speaker 1: Nathan Finn, president of the Northern Territory Police Association. We

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Speaker 1: will have to leave it there. Really appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: We'll probably talk to you before Christmas, so I won't

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Speaker 1: say Merry Christmas just maybe I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Sure we shouldn't just yet. We'll leave that. I'm sure

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Speaker 2: there'll be something else that comes up, or there are

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Speaker 2: be extensions of what we've spoken about today spoken about

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Speaker 2: again in the media. But i'd like to think think

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Speaker 2: obviously you guys and your support of our police officers

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Speaker 2: for a long long time now, Katie and I like

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Speaker 2: to thank our members out in the street as well

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Speaker 2: that that's absolutely the best possible job that they can

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Speaker 2: best possibly do right across the Northern Territory to make

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Speaker 2: sure our community is safe and to make sure that

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Speaker 2: the new government is supported in the legislation changes they're

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Speaker 2: making and we're trying to do the best we possibly can,

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Speaker 2: so please community bear with us. We will get there.

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Speaker 2: The police force are thinking about how could they live

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Speaker 2: in the community coating. They want to be supported and

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Speaker 2: they want to see it safer community as well for

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Speaker 2: their families.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, in a lot of these situations we're

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Speaker 1: talking about, like a lot of the police officers that

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Speaker 1: I know, mums and dads, the sports that I go to,

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Speaker 1: you know, they are genuine part, a genuine part of

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory community. They want this place to thrive.

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Speaker 2: Right definitely, and that's what we're here to do and

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Speaker 2: to make sure that happens is we need to make

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Speaker 2: sure that the decisions being made by the people in

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Speaker 2: power are the right decisions being made for all of

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Speaker 2: the Territorians. And I believe they are or were moving

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Speaker 2: in that direction.

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Speaker 1: Nathan Finn, we'll talk to you against So thanks Matte,

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Speaker 1: thank you