1
00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,560
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

2
00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:09,560
Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

3
00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,639
Speaker 2: Now, the secret really came down to fit every one

4
00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:15,320
Speaker 2: of us. Our individuality matters.

5
00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,280
Speaker 3: And whether or not you can succeed or not is.

6
00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:20,840
Speaker 2: As much about finding that fit between who you are

7
00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:22,080
Speaker 2: and the environment.

8
00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,520
Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mom

9
00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:26,000
Speaker 1: and dad.

10
00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:28,560
Speaker 4: Hello, this is doctor Justin Coilson and as usual I'm

11
00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,080
Speaker 4: joined by my co host, missus Happy Families, my wife

12
00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:33,080
Speaker 4: Kylie where the parents of six girls. I've written six

13
00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,360
Speaker 4: books about raising happy families, and today's podcast and absolutely

14
00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:38,479
Speaker 4: must listen if you've got kids at school who are

15
00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,120
Speaker 4: struggling around standardization and education, which is pretty much all

16
00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:42,440
Speaker 4: of them.

17
00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,479
Speaker 5: Todd Rose is our guest on the podcast today. Todd

18
00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,000
Speaker 5: is the co founder and president of Populace, which is

19
00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,960
Speaker 5: a think tank dedicated to transforming how we learn, work,

20
00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,080
Speaker 5: and live basically so we can all live a fulfilling

21
00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:57,480
Speaker 5: life in a thriving society.

22
00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:59,680
Speaker 4: Until recently, Todd was also a professor at the Harvard

23
00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,200
Speaker 4: Graduate School of Education. He's the author of two best

24
00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:06,160
Speaker 4: selling books, Dark Horse and The End of Average. Both

25
00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:08,160
Speaker 4: of those books over the last few years have been

26
00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,400
Speaker 4: at the top of my favorite books lists. In twenty eighteen,

27
00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:13,880
Speaker 4: The End of Average just blew my mind, and in

28
00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,440
Speaker 4: twenty nineteen I said dark Horse was my book of

29
00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:18,919
Speaker 4: the year. He's got a fantastic story about his journey

30
00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,480
Speaker 4: to becoming a professor at one of the world's most

31
00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,000
Speaker 4: prestigious universities.

32
00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,520
Speaker 5: Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast, Todd, and thanks for

33
00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,319
Speaker 5: joining us. I have to admit I am I'm really

34
00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,119
Speaker 5: excited about today's interview. I have picked up dark Horse

35
00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:35,679
Speaker 5: because you told me how good it was, and I've

36
00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,320
Speaker 5: been reading it and I'm really really getting a lot

37
00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,160
Speaker 5: out of what I'm reading. But this is actually the

38
00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,320
Speaker 5: first time I've ever done an interview, and I'm a

39
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:44,120
Speaker 5: little bit nervous about how it's going to go.

40
00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,240
Speaker 6: So welcome Todd. It's great to have you along.

41
00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:47,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm really excited.

42
00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,680
Speaker 4: So, Todd, I a couple of years ago came across

43
00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,800
Speaker 4: your book The End of Average when I read it

44
00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,440
Speaker 4: and I heard about it from a fellow academic called

45
00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:01,560
Speaker 4: Todd Kashton on his annual book review. He said, this

46
00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:03,280
Speaker 4: was one of the best books I read all year,

47
00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,400
Speaker 4: and for me. It was one of the best books

48
00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,560
Speaker 4: that I'd read all year. And then I came across

49
00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,639
Speaker 4: your book Dark Horse, which you've only released much more recently,

50
00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,280
Speaker 4: and I just thought, this is something that every person

51
00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:16,760
Speaker 4: needs to know. Everyone needs to read this book, everyone

52
00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,720
Speaker 4: needs to understand it. The information in here is so valuable,

53
00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:22,160
Speaker 4: and I want to talk about it with Kylie and you.

54
00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,000
Speaker 4: But before we do that, can you just tell us

55
00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:28,240
Speaker 4: a bit about your story, because you've got this really

56
00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,040
Speaker 4: compelling story that I think would give any parent who's

57
00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,240
Speaker 4: worried about their child's future success just that little bit

58
00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:36,560
Speaker 4: of reassurance and comfort that no matter how bad it is,

59
00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:37,840
Speaker 4: it could still be Okay.

60
00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:40,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, you know.

61
00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,840
Speaker 2: Today I run a think take and I have, you know,

62
00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,040
Speaker 2: another business, and I used to be a Harvard professor.

63
00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:51,119
Speaker 2: But but before that, I was also a high school dropout.

64
00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,400
Speaker 2: And it actually, it's funny, it actually is kind of

65
00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,480
Speaker 2: worse than that, right, Like I actually I say drop out,

66
00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,000
Speaker 2: they actually kicked me out, but I feel like it's

67
00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:00,600
Speaker 2: sounds better.

68
00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:05,160
Speaker 3: It was like mutually agreed upon.

69
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,839
Speaker 2: But I ended up filling out with a zero point

70
00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,720
Speaker 2: nine GPA, So I don't know how the grades work

71
00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,840
Speaker 2: in Australia. But this is pretty bad. This is like

72
00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,800
Speaker 2: a D minus F average right across all things.

73
00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,160
Speaker 5: And so I think you and Justin have something in common.

74
00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I finished high school, but the grade

75
00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:25,400
Speaker 4: that they gave me was you scored on the bottom

76
00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:26,520
Speaker 4: fifteen percent of the state.

77
00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,160
Speaker 6: Good luck with the rest of your life.

78
00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,000
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right. And so it was.

79
00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,080
Speaker 2: It was the beginning of my senior year and I

80
00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:38,120
Speaker 2: suddenly found myself, you know, having to go to work.

81
00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:43,480
Speaker 2: But really, just a couple months later, my girlfriend she

82
00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,320
Speaker 2: was pregnant. Now I have to say flash forward still

83
00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:52,000
Speaker 2: my wife today twenty five years later, and.

84
00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:52,920
Speaker 3: So that was that was actually the best mistake.

85
00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,680
Speaker 2: But but you know, we had two kids within the

86
00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,640
Speaker 2: span of I was twenty one and found I was

87
00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,040
Speaker 2: working minimum wage jobs and we actually ended up on

88
00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,280
Speaker 2: welfare and it.

89
00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,920
Speaker 3: Just wasn't working. And so the short version is.

90
00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,760
Speaker 2: My dad told me, hey, look, there are plenty of

91
00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,720
Speaker 2: great jobs that he felt like I could be really

92
00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:21,680
Speaker 2: I could excel at, but I couldn't get there from

93
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,760
Speaker 2: where I was, And weirdly I ended up because of

94
00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:28,240
Speaker 2: his example, I ended up going to college. I took

95
00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,480
Speaker 2: my GED which is like the equivalent of the high

96
00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,320
Speaker 2: school diploma in the States, and enrolled in this open

97
00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,080
Speaker 2: enrollment commuter school called Weaper State University, was just right

98
00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:43,839
Speaker 2: up the road from where I lived, and slowly started

99
00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,680
Speaker 2: to chip away at this out of just sheer like

100
00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,680
Speaker 2: couldn't go back to what it was. And I learned

101
00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:51,400
Speaker 2: a lot about myself along the way, and I'm happy

102
00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,560
Speaker 2: to give more examples of that. But weirdly, I ended

103
00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:57,760
Speaker 2: up graduating as the honor student of the year with

104
00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,560
Speaker 2: a three point nine to seven GPAs and premad and

105
00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,440
Speaker 2: got into Harvard for my doctorate.

106
00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,919
Speaker 4: I'd wear twins. I mean, this is so much like

107
00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,400
Speaker 4: my story. You know, I barely scraped through high school.

108
00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:13,960
Speaker 4: I'm working at some minimage jobs, and now I get

109
00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,440
Speaker 4: this radio career. But then I go back to school

110
00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:18,880
Speaker 4: in my late twenties with the.

111
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:20,680
Speaker 5: Belief at that point that you were actually a high

112
00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:21,960
Speaker 5: school dropout.

113
00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,080
Speaker 6: And had no capacity to didn't belong there.

114
00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,120
Speaker 4: But ended up doing a psychology degree and graduated with

115
00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,799
Speaker 4: first class honors and went on to do a doctorate

116
00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,600
Speaker 4: in psychology. I'm hearing that maybe this way, I like

117
00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,400
Speaker 4: books so much so you end up at Harvard and

118
00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,159
Speaker 4: then I mean, the career just keeps on going. You

119
00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,160
Speaker 4: went up as a professor at Harvard University, one of

120
00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,400
Speaker 4: the most prestigious universities in the world, high school drop out,

121
00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,760
Speaker 4: a couple of kids, and all of a sudden, how

122
00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:49,520
Speaker 4: does that happen?

123
00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:50,560
Speaker 3: It's funny.

124
00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:52,919
Speaker 2: A lot of people like I was just trying to

125
00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,600
Speaker 2: get through, right, I was trying to survive, and it

126
00:05:55,720 --> 00:06:01,159
Speaker 2: was only I remember the first press interview I ever

127
00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,320
Speaker 2: did when I got into Harvard, and it was like

128
00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,120
Speaker 2: the local newspaper, and they were like, wait, what, like

129
00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,440
Speaker 2: how And what I realized is and they said, oh,

130
00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,800
Speaker 2: you must have just buckled down and started working harder.

131
00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,360
Speaker 2: And when I thought about it, I realized that really

132
00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,760
Speaker 2: wasn't true. Like I really did work hard. I mean

133
00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,160
Speaker 2: the you know, there were some gaps in that where

134
00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,880
Speaker 2: I've kind of given up. But like, what I realized

135
00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,240
Speaker 2: is the secret really came down to fit every one

136
00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,800
Speaker 2: of us. Our individuality matters, and whether or not you

137
00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:33,240
Speaker 2: can succeed or not is as much about finding that

138
00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,039
Speaker 2: fit between who you are and the environment. And so

139
00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:40,240
Speaker 2: even in the context of a reasonably standardized college experience,

140
00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,719
Speaker 2: there was enough wiggle room where I was able to

141
00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,720
Speaker 2: make some pretty meaningful choices. Some of them were like

142
00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,600
Speaker 2: really counterintuitive, to the point where the university was like,

143
00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,880
Speaker 2: I don't think you're supposed to do this, and like

144
00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,320
Speaker 2: literally made me sign a paper saying like I knew

145
00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,080
Speaker 2: what I was doing, but it was about fit over

146
00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:02,360
Speaker 2: like standardized sequences. And the more I learned about that

147
00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,840
Speaker 2: and realized, as long as I was in my element

148
00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,680
Speaker 2: and I had created that good fit, I was as

149
00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,360
Speaker 2: good as anybody. And when I got outside of that fit,

150
00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,720
Speaker 2: it was it was a slog. And so that carried

151
00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,640
Speaker 2: with me all the way into my academic research and

152
00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:16,400
Speaker 2: even the work I do.

153
00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,880
Speaker 4: Now this is the Happy Families Podcast. We'll continue our

154
00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:20,520
Speaker 4: discussion with Todd in just a Mine for.

155
00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:24,200
Speaker 3: A happier family. Try a Happy Families membership, because a

156
00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,119
Speaker 3: happy family doesn't just happen.

157
00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,480
Speaker 4: Details at happy families dot com dot au.

158
00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,320
Speaker 5: This is the Happy Families Podcast, and today we're talking

159
00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,280
Speaker 5: to Todd Rose, a Harvard professor, author and founder of

160
00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,960
Speaker 5: the think tank Populace. In your book The End of Average,

161
00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,520
Speaker 5: you unpack the idea of standardization in schools, and one

162
00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,560
Speaker 5: of the points you make is that standardization actually has

163
00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:48,600
Speaker 5: its place. Can you tell us a bit more about that.

164
00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I mean, you know, societies don't function if

165
00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:54,800
Speaker 2: it's a free for all. And like, you know, there's

166
00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,240
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff that as human beings we have

167
00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,680
Speaker 2: in common, and sometimes even when it's not the best,

168
00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,840
Speaker 2: you end up finding the best possible way on average

169
00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,200
Speaker 2: to do something in the name of efficiency. And so

170
00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,840
Speaker 2: even though I'm I believe we're quite a bit down

171
00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,240
Speaker 2: the road from needing a lot of that, I do

172
00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:21,520
Speaker 2: appreciate that. Like when standardization really became a thing, you know,

173
00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:25,080
Speaker 2: about one hundred years ago, we were living across the

174
00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,720
Speaker 2: world in a very different time and you know, so

175
00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,440
Speaker 2: the role for it, as I see it is twofold.

176
00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,160
Speaker 2: So one anything outside of human beings, I mean, God

177
00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,760
Speaker 2: bless you, I go crazy, right, Like I want my

178
00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,320
Speaker 2: tile and all to be like standardized with every pill, right, Like,

179
00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:44,800
Speaker 2: there's things that I really do want to be true

180
00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,200
Speaker 2: about standardized processes.

181
00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:49,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, so when you're making a cay, you need to

182
00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,160
Speaker 4: be standardized, right, Like you need to know that they're

183
00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,080
Speaker 4: nuts and bolts, they're standardized, and we need to have

184
00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,120
Speaker 4: a standardized system so that things function effectively. That's that's

185
00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,160
Speaker 4: critically important.

186
00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,080
Speaker 2: But when you when it comes to human beings and

187
00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,520
Speaker 2: then particularly how you think about who they are, what

188
00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,760
Speaker 2: they're capable of. That's where it breaks down. That's where

189
00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:12,520
Speaker 2: whatever upside there is to it is swapped by the

190
00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,959
Speaker 2: profound downside in terms of what standardization does to human

191
00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:21,120
Speaker 2: beings with respect to well, it's soul crushing right in

192
00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:25,120
Speaker 2: terms of not really being able to realize your full potential.

193
00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,960
Speaker 2: But the truth is is that as communities and as

194
00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:33,600
Speaker 2: a global society like we lose out on their uniqueness

195
00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,200
Speaker 2: and the things that they have to contribute.

196
00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,240
Speaker 3: So the truth is where we have to get is

197
00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:38,760
Speaker 3: a nice balance when.

198
00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:40,319
Speaker 4: It comes to raising our children and putting them into

199
00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:44,760
Speaker 4: a standardized educational system, the same system that frankly you

200
00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,080
Speaker 4: and I struggled in, and so many tens of thousands,

201
00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,800
Speaker 4: if not hundreds of thousands of kids today are struggling in.

202
00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,760
Speaker 4: We've got a standardized system with standardized high stakes testing,

203
00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,280
Speaker 4: and we've got a standardized process to get into university

204
00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:59,840
Speaker 4: and a standardized career path. I love what you said

205
00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:02,040
Speaker 4: in in Dark Horse. You basically said, from the time

206
00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,600
Speaker 4: our children are born until the time they retire, their

207
00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:05,720
Speaker 4: life is standardized.

208
00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's and the thing is is that it Like

209
00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,760
Speaker 2: I said, it's bad for individuals, it's bad for society.

210
00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,120
Speaker 3: And you think about education, like.

211
00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,760
Speaker 2: We literally have kids all over the world, like depending

212
00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:22,560
Speaker 2: on where you're at, Like if you're in the same country,

213
00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,840
Speaker 2: you are learning basically the same things about the same time,

214
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:30,839
Speaker 2: in the same pace, same sequence, right, And even even

215
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,520
Speaker 2: like in the States, education is the last place that

216
00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,000
Speaker 2: still incentivizes designing on average.

217
00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,800
Speaker 3: So we call it like developmentally appropriate. So you take

218
00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,560
Speaker 3: like a textbook and it's like say sixth grade silence

219
00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,200
Speaker 3: or something, and it's like the reading level is what

220
00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:50,680
Speaker 3: does the average sixth grader know? Right? What can they read? Well,

221
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,800
Speaker 3: there isn't an average sixth grader, right, And so especially

222
00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,760
Speaker 3: with our technologies, now you don't have to do it right.

223
00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,720
Speaker 3: It is dropped dead simple to have incredibly flexible what

224
00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:05,920
Speaker 3: we would call universally designed environments that are far more inclusive.

225
00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,319
Speaker 2: Right, you don't have to have the same fixed sequence.

226
00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,280
Speaker 2: Kids can move at their own pace and it doesn't

227
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,600
Speaker 2: have to be chaos. We can see over and over

228
00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,760
Speaker 2: again that you can actually get more efficient, more effective

229
00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,439
Speaker 2: learning environments with a little bit more flexibility and personalization.

230
00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:26,000
Speaker 5: So as a mum, of six children who literally can

231
00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,640
Speaker 5: see that there is no cookie cutter average in my

232
00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:34,120
Speaker 5: own home, just with my six children. This idea of personalization,

233
00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,520
Speaker 5: you know, kind of living intrigues me.

234
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:37,960
Speaker 3: Heaves.

235
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:40,720
Speaker 5: I've just I've loved listening to what we're talking about today.

236
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:42,800
Speaker 5: I'm wondering, Todd, whether or not we might be able

237
00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,200
Speaker 5: to get you back in a few weeks time to

238
00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,120
Speaker 5: really kind of, I guess, unpack this idea for parents

239
00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,439
Speaker 5: and help them to, you know, kind of be able

240
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,640
Speaker 5: to internalize these messages so that they can help their

241
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:56,839
Speaker 5: children navigate this this world that we live in obstandardization.

242
00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:58,800
Speaker 5: How do we personalize it for them?

243
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,360
Speaker 3: That sounds great? Come me in awesome.

244
00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:06,480
Speaker 4: So the book is called Dark Horse Achieving Success through Fulfillment,

245
00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,080
Speaker 4: and it takes parents through this idea that we've got

246
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,320
Speaker 4: a standardized system that may not be working for every child,

247
00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,320
Speaker 4: and it's changed the way I view so much.

248
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,160
Speaker 6: Todd. Awesome to talk to your can't wait to do

249
00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:19,520
Speaker 6: it again.

250
00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:20,320
Speaker 3: Thank you.

251
00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:22,360
Speaker 4: Well, it's just been so good chatting with Todd Rose

252
00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,800
Speaker 4: on today's Happy Families podcast. I'm really looking forward to

253
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:26,880
Speaker 4: having Todd back on the podcast in the next few weeks.

254
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:28,199
Speaker 6: I'm doctor Justin Coulson.

255
00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,160
Speaker 4: If you would like more info about how we can

256
00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,480
Speaker 4: make your family happier, you can get all the info

257
00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,600
Speaker 4: that you need at happy families dot com dot au

258
00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,440
Speaker 4: where we have our Happy Families memberships Families.

259
00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:39,640
Speaker 6: Getting bigger and happier every day.

260
00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:41,760
Speaker 4: Or you can find more info at my Facebook page,

261
00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,800
Speaker 4: doctor Justin Coulson's Happy Families. If you do enjoy the

262
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:46,439
Speaker 4: podcast as well, we'd love for you to leave a

263
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:47,280
Speaker 4: rating and review.

264
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,079
Speaker 6: You can do that at Apple Podcasts or wherever.

265
00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,920
Speaker 4: You're listening because it helps people to find the podcasts

266
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:53,320
Speaker 4: and have happier families.

267
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,640
Speaker 6: Thanks to Justin rule On from Bridge Media for making

268
00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,400
Speaker 6: this sound great. Our producer and our executive producer is

269
00:12:58,480 --> 00:12:59,280
Speaker 6: Craig Bruce.

270
00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,679
Speaker 4: Once again, all the info you need to make your

271
00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,000
Speaker 4: family happier at happy Families dot com dot Au

272
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:11,440
Speaker 2: M HM