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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast, Real parenting solutions every day.

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Speaker 1: This is Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. We're so grateful

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Speaker 1: that you choose to listen. My name's Justin Colson. I'm

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Speaker 1: here with my wife and mum to our six kids.

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Speaker 1: Missus Happy Families, Kylie Colson Kylie. Every Friday on the

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Speaker 1: pod we talk about the stuff that has lit up

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Speaker 1: our world or the mistakes that we've made so that

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Speaker 1: we can do better tomorrow. We literally call our Friday

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Speaker 1: podcast I'll do better tomorrow. And today a little bit

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Speaker 1: of news from me about the latest.

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Speaker 2: Update on my boys book. It's I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: share it all now.

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Speaker 1: I'll share it in a minute, but first we're going

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Speaker 1: to start with you.

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Speaker 2: What has lit you up this week or where have

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Speaker 2: you gone wrong?

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Speaker 1: What can we learn about being better tomorrow from the

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Speaker 1: week that we've had.

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Speaker 3: Well, this week has all been about parental guidance. We've

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Speaker 3: had some very very exciting conversations around viewing from Monday night.

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Speaker 1: Can I just talk about viewing for a sec. We've

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Speaker 1: had about a million people watch that show across Australia

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Speaker 1: this week.

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Speaker 2: It's booming.

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Speaker 1: Channel nine is stoked. Everyone's happy with it. It's been

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Speaker 1: a big thing. If you haven't watched it, you've got

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Speaker 1: to catch up online now now okay, sorry, back to you.

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Speaker 3: And over the last two seasons, we've actually never opened

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Speaker 3: our home up and invited people to come and watch

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Speaker 3: it with us. It's always been a family thing and

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Speaker 3: we've loved doing that. The kids absolutely love being together

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Speaker 3: to watch it. But this time we decided to do

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Speaker 3: something a little bit different and we spent a lot

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Speaker 3: of time with kids between eighteen and thirty.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, so our responsibility at church we look after

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Speaker 1: We're involved with young single adults aged eighteen to thirty,

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Speaker 1: and we just love spending time with them and serving

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Speaker 1: them and helping them and being being useful in whatever

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Speaker 1: way we can.

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Speaker 2: So we invited them over to our place.

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Speaker 3: And it's kind of crazy when you think about it,

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Speaker 3: it's a parenting show. All of these singles who are

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Speaker 3: not parents yet to join us, but they came. They

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Speaker 3: came in hoards. Actually, we had nearly nearly thirty people.

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Speaker 4: And we have a very small hab We do have

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Speaker 4: a very small really small.

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Speaker 3: And I guess if I could just round out the experience,

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Speaker 3: it was beautiful to have them here, and it was

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Speaker 3: beautiful to just be able to share that experience with them.

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Speaker 3: And my take home from that experience is if we

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Speaker 3: want to have good communities, and if we want to

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Speaker 3: build a village around our children, then we need to

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Speaker 3: be intentional about the experiences that we provide for not

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Speaker 3: only our own families, but the community that we're striving

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Speaker 3: to build. And over the years, we've done a really

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Speaker 3: good job of that to provide opportunities for people to

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Speaker 3: come together, because it's only in coming together that we

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Speaker 3: experience the kind of connection that safeguards us from all

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Speaker 3: of the nasty things that you're going to explore over

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Speaker 3: the next few weeks on the TV, but we're experiencing

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Speaker 3: it here in real life. Yeah, families are probably more

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Speaker 3: segregated than they have ever been in the history of life.

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Speaker 3: We live busier lives, and as a result, we become

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Speaker 3: very insular in our vision and the time that we

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Speaker 3: choose to spend outside of our family unit. And I

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Speaker 3: think that that's where our biggest downfall is time together

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Speaker 3: connecting with people. We love people, we want to love people,

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Speaker 3: we want to get to know. That's what makes our

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Speaker 3: life rich. And full.

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Speaker 1: I just think about growing up. We always had people

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Speaker 1: in a home when I was a kid, my grandma,

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Speaker 1: I remember none and pop used to always have people

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Speaker 1: over for drinks and card games and backyard barbecues and that.

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Speaker 2: Kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: And it's a lot of people they're anxious about it

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Speaker 1: that I want to go to the hassle.

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Speaker 2: It's worth it. It's so worth it.

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Speaker 1: Like it cost us some money and it took a

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Speaker 1: huge amount of time and there was a hassle, like

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Speaker 1: it was genuinely a big deal, and yet it was

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Speaker 1: so worth it was so worth it. My take home

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Speaker 1: message is worth spending some time. Hey, I'm just on

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Speaker 1: the parental guidance before we take a quick break and

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Speaker 1: then talk about my older better tomorrow. There was a

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Speaker 1: bit of criticism about the AI chatbot friend on social media,

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Speaker 1: some people saying, oh, AI ethics wouldn't allow that to happen,

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Speaker 1: Like when has a tech company ever done anything trustworthy?

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Speaker 1: Like they are completely untrustworthy. But there are people who

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Speaker 1: really believe that they're out there doing the right thing.

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Speaker 3: It's amazing me because there's actually real life anecdotes shared

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Speaker 3: in the show of people who have literally lost their

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Speaker 3: lives as a result of interacting with these chat lines,

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Speaker 3: and you can't refute that.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 1: I mean it doesn't happen often, fortunately, but that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that there is not other harm occurring. You can

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Speaker 1: go to the most extreme and say, well, it could happen,

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Speaker 1: and it has, but that doesn't mean that it's okay.

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Speaker 1: I came across this clip from Tristan Harris. Tristan Harris

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Speaker 1: runs the Center for Humane Technology. He's a former Google

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Speaker 1: whistleblower who stepped out and just said, as tech companies,

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Speaker 1: we are doing the wrong thing. And the mendacious lies

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Speaker 1: that are being told by tech CEOs about how they

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Speaker 1: really are employing world leading technology to keep people safe,

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Speaker 1: it's just crap. And so he's been on Fox News

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Speaker 1: recently talking about AI chatbots literally the things that we

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Speaker 1: were doing on Monday night on Parental Guidance, and I

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Speaker 1: grabbed this clip. I've got to play it to you

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Speaker 1: because it says to all the nasayers and the people

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Speaker 1: who are saying, oh, we're being exploitative or we're seeking

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Speaker 1: clickbait extreme examples at highlights, that we're actually right and

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Speaker 1: raising a warning flag on this needs to be done.

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Speaker 5: Here's what he said, it diagnoses that kids are lonely.

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Speaker 5: But it's like saying the answer to loneliness is social media.

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Speaker 5: You know what is the last thing we should have

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Speaker 5: learned from social media? That these companies' business models are

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Speaker 5: to get more and more engagement and users. That means

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Speaker 5: more addiction. And we're now seeing us repeat the same

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Speaker 5: mistake of we're releasing these AI chatbots to children, and

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Speaker 5: there's this research in the Wall Street Journal that the

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Speaker 5: conversation with the kids are being sexualized or doing romantic roleplay.

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Speaker 5: The AI that Mark Zuckerberg is releasing says it's a

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Speaker 5: licensed mental health therapist. You'll say where it got its

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Speaker 5: degree and its license number, and this is a but

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Speaker 5: this is a B.

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Speaker 2: This is an AI.

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Speaker 5: That's impossible and it's illegal to do that.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: So I've got some big reactions here, but I'd love

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Speaker 1: to get yours first.

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Speaker 3: I think it's very challenging for families, who for the

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Speaker 3: most part, live and protect their children in very intentional ways,

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Speaker 3: to understand the dynamics of the big wide world out

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Speaker 3: there when their kids aren't specifically being exposed to this

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Speaker 3: kind of stuff. It just seems so far fetched. For

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Speaker 3: someone who's not experiencing it. And I know that over

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Speaker 3: the years, as you have shared lots of different things,

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Speaker 3: I've been like, what the heck does that even exist?

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Speaker 3: And when I talk to our children, they've never heard

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Speaker 3: of it, or they've never experienced or they don't know

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Speaker 3: someone who has. So Yes, you could very easily fall

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Speaker 3: into the trap of suggesting that this is just, you know,

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Speaker 3: overreaching on your part as a professional, sharing this stuff

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Speaker 3: in an effort to scare people into, you know what,

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Speaker 3: doing something good for their children. I don't know. I

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Speaker 3: don't understand the mentality behind their reactions.

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Speaker 1: Oh, we need to protect the AI companies.

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Speaker 3: But we can't. We can't put our heads in the

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Speaker 3: sand and think that just because we're not experiencing it

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Speaker 3: that this is not a problem. This is all about

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Speaker 3: pre arming. Like literally, this whole conversation is about pre arming.

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Speaker 3: Hopefully your kids never come across this ever, but the

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Speaker 3: reality is if they don't, somebody else might.

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Speaker 1: Based on numbers that doctor Raf shared on the show,

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Speaker 1: it's highly probable that your children are going to have

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Speaker 1: some kind of experience with these kinds of friendship bots.

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Speaker 3: And as a result, pre arming our kids to understand

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Speaker 3: and know what's happening, why it's happening, and how they

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Speaker 3: can protect themselves is imperative. It's imperative. It's not just

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Speaker 3: a nice wish. It's imperative.

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Speaker 1: Here's my twenty second take on what Tristan Harris had

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Speaker 1: to say and this issue of AI Chatbot Friends.

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Speaker 2: Number one.

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Speaker 1: We saw in the show the sexualized conversation in one

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Speaker 1: of the four instances.

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Speaker 3: The our and outright lies and the lies.

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Speaker 1: But I want to talk specifically about that. He's highlighted

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Speaker 1: that the bots know that to addict somebody, you've got

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Speaker 1: to do and say things that are outrageous, that push

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Speaker 1: against or over the boundary lines, and sexualized conversations are

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Speaker 1: exactly the way to do that. And what kid isn't

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Speaker 1: at least a little bit curious. Now, we had four

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Speaker 1: children playing on these chatbots, but the reality is one

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Speaker 1: didn't do anything at all. She just was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: not interested, and another one was also generally not interested.

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Speaker 1: A third one had a bit of fun with it,

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Speaker 1: but it didn't go anywhere. The one child who really

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Speaker 1: did get involved was there for thirty five forty forty

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Speaker 1: five fifty minutes, and that's the one where the chatbots

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Speaker 1: started to share content that was explicit and sexual in nature.

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Speaker 1: The second thing that concerns me outside of romantic role play,

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Speaker 1: is that the bots are literally lying and saying, Ah,

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Speaker 1: they're human and b that they're licensed mental health practitioners.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is frightening. I've spoken to a couple

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Speaker 1: of people in recent times who are using AI as

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Speaker 1: a mental health care.

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Speaker 3: That is that I had to say the same thing that.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to go and see a psychologist. Too

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Speaker 1: hard to get in, cost too much money, and you

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Speaker 1: often don't find somebody who's going to be the right

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Speaker 1: match for you anyway, and so they're using chat, GPT

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Speaker 1: and other similar resources as a psychologist.

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Speaker 2: It's just a terrible idea.

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Speaker 1: This thing is not qualified in any way, shape or

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Speaker 1: form to be giving any kind of mental health advice,

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Speaker 1: not a person, and it's bad. So that's my that's

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Speaker 1: my I said twenty seconds, that's my two minute take

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Speaker 1: on the wrap up of what happened there After the break,

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Speaker 1: we're going to get your take home message on your

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Speaker 1: older Better Tomorrow story. I didn't actually ask you explicitly

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Speaker 1: what you take our message was, and I'll share my

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Speaker 1: older better Tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: For this week as well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Kylie, are you shared about having thirty people in

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Speaker 1: the house and watching a parenting show with a whole

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Speaker 1: bunch of people who are not parents as your older

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Speaker 1: better Tomorrow?

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Speaker 2: What was you take home message?

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Speaker 3: One of the biggest predictors for mental well being is connection,

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Speaker 3: and if we want to pre arm and protect our

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Speaker 3: children in the best possible ways, being intentional about creating

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Speaker 3: and building a village and a community around them is imperative.

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Speaker 3: It takes intention, it takes energy, it takes time, It

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Speaker 3: takes effort.

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Speaker 1: Bring people into your orbit though, right, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: love it, love it? Okay, my odder bedit tomorrow. It's

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Speaker 1: really short, it's really simple, It's really sweet. I've been

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Speaker 1: working on a book about raising boys for three years now,

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Speaker 1: three years, and I finished the second draft this week.

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Speaker 1: I know, I know, and like I mean, I've been

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Speaker 1: working this year particularly, I've been doing twelve to fifteen

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Speaker 1: our days consistently to try to get this thing done.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know who's happy about me having the

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Speaker 1: second draft, rest few or me, but boys. The book

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Speaker 1: about raising tween and teen boys is it's progressing. It's

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Speaker 1: going to the publisher soon. Second draft done this week.

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Speaker 3: So let's just be completely upfront here. This is still

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Speaker 3: not finished. I am still holding my breath.

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Speaker 1: Has been This has been an odyssey, hasn't it. There's

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Speaker 1: been a saga, Yes.

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Speaker 3: It really really has, and I cannot wait to see

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Speaker 3: the end of this project.

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Speaker 1: I've never worked on a book the way that I

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Speaker 1: have this time. It's been so hard.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know if anyone else wants to know this,

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Speaker 3: but just take us through the process, because it has

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Speaker 3: been a process.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so draft number one. What I basically did was

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Speaker 1: I got a whole lot of index cards, hundreds of

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Speaker 1: index cards, you know those three by five. I actually

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Speaker 1: got five by sevens because I've liked more space.

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Speaker 3: Because you're going blind.

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Speaker 4: And every time I had a thought, every time I

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Speaker 4: read something, every time I found a resource, every time

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Speaker 4: I had a conversation with someone that sparked something for me,

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Speaker 4: every time something popped up on social media, I jot

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Speaker 4: it down on my five x seven card and put

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Speaker 4: it into the file.

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Speaker 1: And then at the start of the year, I decided

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Speaker 1: that I'd collected enough information. I had about five or

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Speaker 1: six hundred of these things. I clearly number one can't

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Speaker 1: include five or six hundred ideas but number two. But

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you tried number two. That would be a

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Speaker 1: five or six hundred page book. By the time you

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Speaker 1: get the idea and you flesh it out, that's a

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Speaker 1: lot of content. So I got all those index cards,

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Speaker 1: I put them into piles themes. Basically, this is this theme,

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Speaker 1: this theme, this theme. And then from those themes I

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Speaker 1: divided into chapters and worked out that I was going

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Speaker 1: to have a fifteen chapter book.

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Speaker 2: And that also pretty much.

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Speaker 1: Gave me the structure. So the structure of the book

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Speaker 1: is as follows. Here's the situation. That's Part one, five

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Speaker 1: chapters talking about all of the challenges that we're facing.

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Speaker 1: This is where most people are really strong and solid,

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Speaker 1: but then they peter out from there. I can't peter

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Speaker 1: out after just talking about the problems. So Part two

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Speaker 1: is the blueprint. That's where I talk about how understanding

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Speaker 1: what we need to understand about boys and their motivations.

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Speaker 1: Then well being if we can put together a blueprint,

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Speaker 1: now we know what we're supposed to do. And then

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Speaker 1: Part three it's another five chapters on the playbook. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so we've got the situation. Then we've got the blueprint

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Speaker 1: for moving forward. Then we've got the playbook, the actual

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Speaker 1: how to guide. I wrote the first draft. It took me,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, four or five months to get the

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Speaker 1: draft done after spending two years of collecting data and

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Speaker 1: putting it all together. And I thought so good, and

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Speaker 1: I was so excited. I was like, oh, draft number

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Speaker 1: two is going to be a breeze. I'll get it

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Speaker 1: done in two weeks. I've spent three months on draft

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Speaker 1: number two as well, because just there's so much to do.

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Speaker 1: So now I'm going through draft number three. That's what

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Speaker 1: I'm up to as of next week. Draft three is

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Speaker 1: the fact checking. It's putting all the references in. It's

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Speaker 1: cutting out a thousand words here, five hundred words there

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Speaker 1: are two hundred words there, so that I can get

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Speaker 1: the chapters to be the right length, because right now

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Speaker 1: it's about ninety thousand words, and no one's going to

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Speaker 1: read a book that long. And I think that it'll

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Speaker 1: take me about a month to get draft three done

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Speaker 1: or thereabouts, and then I'm going to send it out

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Speaker 1: to five or six people who have generously said that

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Speaker 1: they will preread the book. And I want them to

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Speaker 1: tear it apart. I just want them to say, that's

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Speaker 1: a bad example, or you haven't talked about this, or

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Speaker 1: I've got a really left leaning philosophy, or I've got

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Speaker 1: a really conservative leaning philosophy and I don't feel like

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Speaker 1: you're serving my ideals here. Or I've got a child

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Speaker 1: who's got this preference or that tendency and I don't

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Speaker 1: feel like they're seen in the pages of this book.

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Speaker 1: So that I can get as much negative feedback as

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Speaker 1: possible before I finished the drafting.

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Speaker 3: You know that you are literally like one of a kind,

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Speaker 3: don't you, And most people are not asking for negative feedback.

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Speaker 1: So I'll finish draft three and then draft four, and

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Speaker 1: then I'm going to send it to the publisher and then

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Speaker 1: they'll have their editors go over it, and that'll be

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Speaker 1: draft five and six. So hopefully towards the end of

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Speaker 1: the year, this book will be behind us and it'll

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Speaker 1: be done, and then it just goes through the publication

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Speaker 1: machinations so that early next year people can buy my

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Speaker 1: book about boys.

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Speaker 3: And then I'm having a holiday for a week.

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Speaker 2: I think we need a holiday for a year.

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Speaker 3: No me, I need a holiday.

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Speaker 2: What I'm actually hoping.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when you write a book, you tend to

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Speaker 1: get a lot of phone calls and emails from people

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Speaker 1: who say, will you please come and speak about your

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Speaker 1: book at our school or our business or whatever. So

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Speaker 1: I probably won't get a holiday for a couple of

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Speaker 1: years once the.

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Speaker 2: Book comes out.

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Speaker 1: But I think, in all honesty, this Boy's Book is

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Speaker 1: It's the most significant.

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Speaker 2: Book that I've ever written.

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Speaker 1: It's the book that I've worked harder on than any

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Speaker 1: book we've ever talked about before, and it's the book

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Speaker 1: that has taken more from me than anything I've ever done.

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Speaker 1: Like I'm just I'm so proud of where it already is,

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Speaker 1: and I can't wait to see where it goes by

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Speaker 1: the time it goes through the last four edits that

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be doing now that I've done my

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Speaker 1: second edit.

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Speaker 3: So I'm curious, now that you've shared all of this,

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Speaker 3: what your take home message is.

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Speaker 1: No, don't write a book. That's my message.

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Speaker 2: The cost I'm probably.

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Speaker 1: Being far too transparent here, but the cost to me

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Speaker 1: and to our family for me to get this book written,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how we calculate. It's just been staggering.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting you talk about this, you talk about the process,

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Speaker 3: and you talk about I guess the cost, and that's

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Speaker 3: not even you know, kind of financial costs, the emotional, mental,

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Speaker 3: and physical costs that has It's the time have been

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Speaker 3: required of you and as a result of ours when

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Speaker 3: you sit down you read a book. I don't think

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Speaker 3: it ever crosses anybody's mind what it took for those

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Speaker 3: pages to be in front of you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and.

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Speaker 3: You know, depending on the style of book you're reading, Like,

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Speaker 3: there is just so much that goes into this process,

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Speaker 3: and for a lot of people it is literally their

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Speaker 3: life's work.

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Speaker 2: It's been three or four years.

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Speaker 1: I've torture. As you're saying it, I'm almost weeping because

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Speaker 1: it has been an enormous toll. It's taken enormous toll

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Speaker 1: to bring it, and obviously I've still got six months

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Speaker 1: to go. I think this is like this is number ten, right, Yes,

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Speaker 1: this is my tenth book. This is my tenth time around.

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Speaker 3: So it's not like you don't know how to write

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Speaker 3: a book number one, number two. It's not like you

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Speaker 3: don't understand or know the cost that's required. But this

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Speaker 3: specific book has pretty much pushed you to the edge

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Speaker 3: in just about every year.

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Speaker 1: I think it's pushed me over the edge a couple

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Speaker 1: of times.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Is that just because you're getting old?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: No, I mean I've been invested in every book that

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Speaker 1: I've written, but I don't know that I've ever had

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Speaker 1: this level of investment before. I look at what's happening

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Speaker 1: in the eyes of parents who come up to me

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Speaker 1: after my sessions and say, I've got a son and

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Speaker 1: I'm worried, and I'm writing this book for them. I'm

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Speaker 1: not writing this book to have another book on the shelves.

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Speaker 1: I don't need any more books on shelves. I'm writting

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Speaker 1: this book because they need it, and I'm writing it

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Speaker 1: because when I offer support to these parents, they come

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Speaker 1: back to me and they say, you saved my son,

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Speaker 1: or you save my family, or you change my relationships forever.

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Speaker 1: And therefore I know that while we don't raise suns ourselves,

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Speaker 1: we have six daughters. I know that this book is

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Speaker 1: going to change lives. And I know that if there's

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Speaker 1: a group of young people today who need help, it's

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Speaker 1: our teenage boys. So that took a turn that I

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Speaker 1: didn't expect, but yeah, that's my id. A better tomorrow

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Speaker 1: I've finished the second draft, and the drafts get easier

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Speaker 1: from this point, like they actually do get easier. I've

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Speaker 1: done the heavy lifting now, the fact checking and the

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Speaker 1: tiding up and chucking words out. That's only a that's

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Speaker 1: only a three to four week project. I can get

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Speaker 1: that done, honey, I promise. And then reading other people's comments,

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Speaker 1: that's only a couple of week project.

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Speaker 2: I can get that done, and then it goes to

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Speaker 2: the publisher. I have to think about it for a while.

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Speaker 2: So we're getting there.

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Speaker 1: The book is coming out, so no, we're going to

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Speaker 1: throw in a link into the show notes. If you've

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Speaker 1: listened this long and you're still with us, we're going

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Speaker 1: to throw a link into the show notes if you'd

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Speaker 1: like to pre register your interests so that when the

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Speaker 1: book is ready, you can hear about it first and

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Speaker 1: get the goodies that I'm promising to chuck in as well.

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Speaker 1: When you buy the book, Jump onto our show notes,

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Speaker 1: Jump onto the website Happy Families dot com dot au

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00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:48,160
Speaker 1: and register your interest in boys the new book by

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Speaker 1: me coming out sometime in the next I reckon nine

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Speaker 1: months and it'll be on the shelves.

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Speaker 2: I think, fingers crossed.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening the Happy Families podcast. We really hope

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Speaker 1: you have a great weekend and that this makes your

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Speaker 1: family have The Happy Family's podcast is produced by.

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Speaker 2: Justin Roland from Bridge Media.

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00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 1: Mim Hammonds does research and admin and provides all the

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Speaker 1: support to make the podcast get to you. If you'd

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Speaker 1: like more information and resources about making your family happier,

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Speaker 1: you'll find it at happy families dot com dot you