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Speaker 1: Now, yesterday there were some pretty serious claims made by

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Speaker 1: the union, which represents Northern Territory firefighters on the show

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Speaker 1: that the Commissioner for Northern Territory Police, Fire and Emergency

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Speaker 1: Services allegedly told new recruits on their second day of

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Speaker 1: training well that firefighters are greedy and that he was

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Speaker 1: coming after one senior fire officer who's also a union delegate. Now,

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Speaker 1: the comments were allegedly made to about twelve n fire

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Speaker 1: recruits on April twenty, when there was roughly twenty people

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Speaker 1: in the room. Now, if you missed that interview yesterday

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Speaker 1: with erin Early, take a bit of a listen to

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Speaker 1: what she'd had to say to us yesterday on the show.

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Speaker 2: On the second day of the recruitquad training that were

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Speaker 2: the twentieth of April, the CEO for the Fire service,

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Speaker 2: Jamie Chalker, was invited to make him the address.

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Speaker 3: To the new recruits. During his address, he said that

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Speaker 3: the union was a bully, He's not going to tolerate

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Speaker 3: bullying behavior within his fire service, and that there's a

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Speaker 3: senior fire officer who's also a union delegate and that

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Speaker 3: he was coming after him. He then started talking about

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of overtime in the fire service and

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Speaker 3: that firefighters are greedy. He's said that don't follow that

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Speaker 3: same pathway with the greedy firefighters continuing a pathway.

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Speaker 1: So, like I said, there's some pretty serious claims which

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Speaker 1: were made yesterday on the show, and the union head

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Speaker 1: not only backed those claims, but is also called for

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Speaker 1: the Commissioner to stand down as the CEO of NT

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Speaker 1: Fire and Rescue, calling for the fire service to be

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Speaker 1: separated from the Northern Territory Police. Now joining me on

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Speaker 1: the show this morning is a person who I understand

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Speaker 1: was in the room when the comments were allegedly made.

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Speaker 1: It is the Northern Territory's Chief Fire Officer, Mark Spain.

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Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Mark.

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Speaker 4: Good morning, Katie, Good morning listeners.

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Speaker 1: We really appreciate your time this morning. Now, Well, firstly,

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Speaker 1: they were obviously some pretty serious claims. Were you in

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Speaker 1: the room that day?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely? I was.

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Speaker 5: Is a very important day as day two of the

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Speaker 5: recruit program. I think it's important that the CEO for

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Speaker 5: Forign and Rescue addressed the troops, as did I, and

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Speaker 5: as did the assistant chief. The Deputy chief was away

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Speaker 5: on leave at the time, so he wasn't there. It's

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Speaker 5: a great opportunity. You've got to remember, these recruits there

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Speaker 5: are like deers and headlights. They've just joined one of

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Speaker 5: the greatest jobs there is to join. And then it

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Speaker 5: was an opportunity for us to float our future directions

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Speaker 5: where the norther Territory Fire and Rescue Service needs to go.

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Speaker 1: So did the police commissioner or did the commissioner, I

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Speaker 1: should say for police and the CEO of Fire and

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Speaker 1: Emergency Services say that firefighters are greedy.

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Speaker 5: Not to my recollection, that happened six to eight weeks ago.

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Speaker 5: I've just come back off two weeks leave when i

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Speaker 5: was confronted with this. But I'll put it on record

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Speaker 5: that I've come in here under my own riscient as

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Speaker 5: the chief officer, I protect the brand. I cannot recall

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Speaker 5: those words. I can recall that the CEO covered off

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Speaker 5: on a lot of valuable commentary to the recruits. Remember

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Speaker 5: aythings starting their career, they're going to have a long career.

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Speaker 5: And we talked about yes, there is a lot of

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Speaker 5: overtime being run to meet the obligations to the community

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Speaker 5: under our minimum staffing arrangements. But that's a side issue

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Speaker 5: that I'm meeting with the new Minister today we'll discuss

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Speaker 5: those sort of.

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Speaker 4: Where we are at the moment.

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Speaker 5: So the Commissioner spoke very calmly, he's spoken and he

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Speaker 5: simply did not identify any senior officer. He did not

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Speaker 5: point out an make any reference to a senior officer.

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Speaker 5: Also being a delegate, that person's probably exposed themselves through

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Speaker 5: the representation of ARENA. Now Arena is only representing her

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Speaker 5: members of what they were told. Now, I had to

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Speaker 5: recruit fire fighters that weren't even there.

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Speaker 4: On the day.

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Speaker 5: They are actually COVID leave straight up on the recruit course.

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Speaker 5: They're on COVID break so that the numbers don't add up.

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Speaker 4: I was there.

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Speaker 5: I'll stand by the CEO on the presentation he gave.

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Speaker 5: He talked about a whole lot of things, health and

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Speaker 5: well being. The fire fighters will be exposed to a

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Speaker 5: lot of carnage, whether it be through structure fires, death

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Speaker 5: and fires, road crash rescues has matt. He spoke about

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Speaker 5: the future of the fire service where it needs to go.

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Speaker 5: And I've been working very closely with the CEO since

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Speaker 5: the formation of the Northern Territory Fire and Rescue Service

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Speaker 5: back in twenty twenty of where the fire Service is

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Speaker 5: now and where it needs to go.

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Speaker 4: What is pleasing with the CEO is that he listens.

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Speaker 1: And so from your recollection, so from what you're saying,

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Speaker 1: the CEO did not say that firefighters are greedy.

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Speaker 5: My recollections, he did not. He raised the issue about

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Speaker 5: overtime and what he clearly said was don't bank your

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Speaker 5: finances around the reliance on overtime. Overtime is privileged, not

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Speaker 5: a right, and it's one of those things we've got

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Speaker 5: to work through. There are a number of factors why

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Speaker 5: there is a lot of overtime in the fire Service

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Speaker 5: and that we've clearly done that body of work under

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Speaker 5: my role as the Chief FIREFFS under and as the

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Speaker 5: director under the Act. My role is to review the

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Speaker 5: fire service regularly with the team that I've got a

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Speaker 5: very good executive team. We've done that, we've unpacked where

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Speaker 5: the fire Service needs to go and what the shortfalls

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Speaker 5: are and as I said, we'll meet with the new

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Speaker 5: Minister today and we'll have the opportunity to lay our concerns.

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Speaker 1: So he did say don't bank your finances on your overtime.

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Speaker 1: It is a privilege, not a right.

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Speaker 4: That's correct.

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Speaker 1: Could some have taken that in a derogatory way.

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Speaker 5: I think if you listen to every word that said,

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Speaker 5: some people will pick up a certain word and turn

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Speaker 5: it into what they believes may be directed at them

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Speaker 5: or whatever. The reality is a lot of my firefighters

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Speaker 5: have had exposure to a lot of overtime over a

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Speaker 5: period of time and they have basically finances on that

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Speaker 5: and they've written to us saying, you know, we owe us,

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Speaker 5: well we don't.

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Speaker 4: Over time is a privilege.

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Speaker 5: Same with the thing that the CEO pointed out on

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Speaker 5: our patch, and my my job is to protect the brand,

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Speaker 5: not the individual, and it's to serve and protect the community.

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Speaker 4: We serve and protect the community.

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Speaker 5: You know, I have two hundred and fifty volunteers as

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Speaker 5: well to turn up day in, day out to serve

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Speaker 5: their communities across twenty seven locations across the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 5: So we've got a broad spectrum of firefighters to do that.

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Speaker 5: So if they've took it, taken it the wrong way,

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Speaker 5: I totally disagree with those statements. I was there, the

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Speaker 5: instructors that were there, I've got higher regard for those instructors.

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Speaker 5: They are all positive. We met after full morning tea.

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Speaker 5: They're all positive, everyone's excited about moving on for it

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Speaker 5: and it's such a great job Spain.

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Speaker 1: Have you spoken to any of the other people that

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Speaker 1: were in the room since this has all come out.

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Speaker 5: No, it was the news to me. I've just come

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Speaker 5: back from leave two weeks leave. It was news to

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Speaker 5: me that it came out in this format. What I

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Speaker 5: am concerned about is they've replaced the recruits in a

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Speaker 5: very awkward position. They want to get on with a career,

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Speaker 5: a great career within fire industry. They're in an awkward

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Speaker 5: position being referenced like this. The union will want to

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Speaker 5: sign them up as soon as they can. That's fair

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Speaker 5: enough for them.

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Speaker 4: The union have.

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Speaker 5: Their obligations to do that. But all I want to

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Speaker 5: focus on is the recruit course is fair, firm, and

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Speaker 5: enjoyable and there's a lot to learn.

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Speaker 1: Now. Did the CEO say that he was going to

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Speaker 1: go after one union delegate?

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Speaker 5: Absolutely not. I'll say that he never identified anyone. He

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Speaker 5: referenced the union and he also said to the recruits

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Speaker 5: put up your hand if you accept bullying in the workplace.

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Speaker 5: There was a general statement he said, if you want

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Speaker 5: to work in this workplace, I will tolerate no bullying.

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Speaker 5: I have the same view internally. We can't expose everything,

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Speaker 5: but we will take it to task anyone that shows

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Speaker 5: any signs of bullying it no matter what level, what rack.

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Speaker 5: The CEO did not point out any senior officer, and

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Speaker 5: he also did not point out that he was after

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Speaker 5: a delegate or you.

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Speaker 1: Now, was there a situation in any case where management

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Speaker 1: or anybody on that day then had to call the

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Speaker 1: delegate or call anybody afterwards to make sure that they

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Speaker 1: were okay based on any of the comments made by

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Speaker 1: the CEO.

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Speaker 5: It didn't warrant it, Katie. There was no comments to

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Speaker 5: pinpointed to any individual. The CEO spoke holistically, and when

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Speaker 5: you talk about senior officers, you can talk about officers

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Speaker 5: that have been in for a long time. Whoe a

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Speaker 5: senior position are very influential, doesn't matter what rank they

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Speaker 5: are at. And that's the whole issue there. The fire

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Speaker 5: Service is such a small service. Everyone knows everyone.

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Speaker 4: They are very.

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Speaker 5: They can be very guarded, or they can be very

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Speaker 5: protected if and take it the wrong way, if they

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Speaker 5: assure tailed on them.

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Speaker 1: There is definitely going to be people listening this morning

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Speaker 1: who are thinking to themselves. You know, of course you're

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Speaker 1: going to of course you are going to support the

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Speaker 1: CEO of Foreign Emergency Services because presumably your job could

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Speaker 1: depend on it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm looking. I'm at that great stage. I've had

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Speaker 5: thirty six years as in the fire industry. I love

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Speaker 5: this industry. If I will, I'm my own person. I'm

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Speaker 5: not a fluent public speaker, as you can ascertain, but

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Speaker 5: I will stand up and I'll say what is right

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Speaker 5: under my own credentials. I have chosen to come in

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Speaker 5: here by myself, no enticement for anyone, and I will

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Speaker 5: speak what I observed and what I can recall from

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Speaker 5: that conversation.

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Speaker 1: Spiny, is this mudslinging because there is you know, pay

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Speaker 1: negotiations underway at the moment.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, look, we're in eb negotiations.

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Speaker 5: But that, as Arena correctly said, it's nothing to do

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Speaker 5: with the CEO for Police Foreign Meergen Services. It's with

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Speaker 5: the Commissioner of Public Employment. I can't link those two

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Speaker 5: with it. That's an ongoing process. That's just part of

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Speaker 5: the enterprise bargaining process.

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Speaker 1: Now, I do want to ask as well, though, are

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Speaker 1: fireries there are some fireries concerned they are the poor

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Speaker 1: cousin of police.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Look, I've been one of those fires up coming through

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Speaker 5: the ranks. I've come through the ranks. You know, we've

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Speaker 5: played in that space. We'll being the poor cousins or

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Speaker 5: the little brother and the entest being the poor cousins.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 5: But when you really unpack and you listen to what

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Speaker 5: community are asking. Police have a big portfolio to cover,

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Speaker 5: but so do we. So it's myself as the executive

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Speaker 5: and my executive team is to fight through that, get

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Speaker 5: through the white noise and actually sell to ministers why

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Speaker 5: the antifrus needs to exist. And you only have to

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Speaker 5: look at the high rise increased in minerals exploration. You've

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Speaker 5: got heavy road usage, You've got the gray name ads

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Speaker 5: come up. Tourism is really doing the big push. You've

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Speaker 5: got the middle arm projects. So my focus is not

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Speaker 5: really around the enterprise agreement. My focus is where do

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Speaker 5: we take the fire service to be a contemporary fire

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Speaker 5: service into the next eight ten years. And that's part

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Speaker 5: of the twenty thirty project back to basics that the

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Speaker 5: CEO has put into place. We've been working titlessly on

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Speaker 5: that for the last eight ten months and we've got

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Speaker 5: some really good evidence based stuff to say where we

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Speaker 5: need to be and where.

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Speaker 4: We need to go.

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Speaker 1: Spany I know that Erin really did say on the

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Speaker 1: show yesterday that there is a video. Are you confident

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Speaker 1: that should a video be presented in or released in

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Speaker 1: some way, that there is nothing to indicate disrespect towards Safaris?

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Speaker 4: No, there's nothing. The boss spoke very calmly.

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Speaker 5: He spoke off a number of points once again, their

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Speaker 5: own welfare, he spoke about. He did mentionine unions. Unions

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Speaker 5: play a role in the fire service. Also, let's talk

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Speaker 5: about the big elephant the room, bullying in the workplace.

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Speaker 5: Bullying can work up, bullying can work down. There are

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Speaker 5: the type of things that we continue to address and

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Speaker 5: work towards. Working with the union is to making a

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Speaker 5: coherent workforce and by doing that, we're looking for a

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Speaker 5: diverse workforce as well.

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Speaker 4: So we've got a lot of work to do, but

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Speaker 4: positive work.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: Look, I will ask you. I know that this is

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Speaker 1: something that you probably can't really weigh in on, but

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Speaker 1: there has been some discussion about whether the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: Fire and Rescue needs to separated from the police portfolio.

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Speaker 1: As I say, I know it's not a decision that

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Speaker 1: would be made by you. It's obviously a decision that

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Speaker 1: would be made by our politicians. But is that something

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Speaker 1: that's you know, that people talk to you about.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a common common talk arena covered a little

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Speaker 5: bit often. Yesterday she explained her position on it, But

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Speaker 5: I think a lot more work would need to go

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Speaker 5: in it. Under my act, under the Fire Emergency Act

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Speaker 5: is that the Police Commissioner is our CEO.

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Speaker 4: So it's in the act. That's where it is at

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Speaker 4: the moment.

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Speaker 5: Have to be a lot more consultation with government and

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Speaker 5: all the appropriate other groups as to their their involvement,

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Speaker 5: their thought processes.

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Speaker 4: Is to is there need for a change?

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Speaker 1: Hey, another topic that we actually spoke about yesterday. This

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Speaker 1: is quite separate, but we had Jerry Wood on the show.

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Speaker 1: I know some people out in the rural area do

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Speaker 1: not want the Palmerston fire Station name the Palmeston fire

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Speaker 1: Station or Palmeston and Region all. They want it to

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Speaker 1: be Palmeston and rural.

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Speaker 5: Where is this at A good question? Cartie sort of

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Speaker 5: try to step out of that a little bit. Look,

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Speaker 5: I'm all for my personal opinion, and this is my

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Speaker 5: personal opinion. Is the Palmston Regional Fire Rescuing and Regions

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Speaker 5: Services Complex very similar to the Berrima one that opened

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Speaker 5: up in twenty twelve. And yes, I understand that individuals

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Speaker 5: I have certain naming rights and conventions what it should be.

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Speaker 5: At the end of the day, the big picture is

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Speaker 5: the fire stations don't put out fires, and the fire

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Speaker 5: stations don't put out I rescue people from cars. It's

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Speaker 5: the firefighters within those stations. If you haven't look the

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Speaker 5: expansion of Palmston, it's expanded thirty three percent, so I've

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Speaker 5: got about thirty eight thousand people in Palmston alone.

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Speaker 4: Then you look at the.

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Speaker 5: Lichville shi that's increased by about thirty percent in population.

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Speaker 4: So we're broadening. You've got to look at Cooler Linga.

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Speaker 4: You look at that.

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Speaker 5: So the idea and I have to do a big

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Speaker 5: shout out to the former Minister Nicole Madison. She sat

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Speaker 5: there around the table with the firefighters in Palmston many

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Speaker 5: years ago and saying what would you like?

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Speaker 4: What do we need?

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Speaker 5: She has come up and her Minister Law have come

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Speaker 5: up with this beautiful station that is built for the future.

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Speaker 5: It will take extra growth and that we can respond

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Speaker 5: to the growing population in the rural area. As for

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Speaker 5: the name and convention, I don't really want to get

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Speaker 5: into that. All I want to do is be able

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Speaker 5: to provide a service to the community of Palmerston and beyond.

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Speaker 1: Before I let you go, how are things looking when

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Speaker 1: it comes to this fire season and most people getting

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Speaker 1: their firebreaks organized and doing everything that they need to do.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'd dec like to take this opportunity for those

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Speaker 5: rule members. Please be considered of your other rural neighbors.

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Speaker 5: Put your four meter minimum firebreaks around your block, get

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Speaker 5: them done now before it's too late.

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Speaker 1: Mark Spain, the Chief fire Officer with the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: Fire and Rescue Service. I appreciate you coming in this

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Speaker 1: morning and having that extensive discussion with us. Thank you

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Speaker 1: very much for your time.

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Speaker 4: Thanks Coatie, Thank you,