1 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,319 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: Hello, how's your summer going. Are you on a road trip, 8 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 2: are you recovering from a big party in the sun, 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 2: or are you just taking a quiet walk, whatever the 10 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 2: case is, You are listening to a special summer series 11 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 2: of the TDA Podcast. Now, the whole idea here is 12 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 2: that every day we're going to throw back to a 13 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 2: different episode from last year. We've sat down and chosen 14 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 2: some of the most listens to stories of twenty twenty two, 15 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 2: but we've also thrown in some of the stories that 16 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: may have gotten left behind in the news cycle, and 17 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 2: we think they want a bit of an update. In August, 18 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 2: we brought you a story about the national teacher shortage. 19 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 2: Education ministers from around the country were meeting in Canberra 20 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 2: to talk about how to address this issue. But we 21 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 2: want us to take a different angle to it. We 22 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 2: wanted us to talk to someone who is living through 23 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 2: the shortage on the ground, in the actual classroom. You're 24 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,199 Speaker 2: going to hear that deep dive now, but do stick 25 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 2: around until the end of the deep dive for an 26 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 2: update on the outcome of that August meeting as well. 27 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 3: Educators across the country will be looking to Canberra today 28 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 3: as education ministers gather to try address a national teacher shortage. Now, 29 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 3: the context for this is that the Federal Education Minister, 30 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 3: Jason clare He released an issues paper this week which 31 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 3: one that Australia is facing a shortage of around four 32 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 3: one hundred secondary school teachers in the next few years. 33 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 2: What can we take out of that issues paper as 34 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 2: the main reasons for this? 35 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 3: So what we found from this government report that first 36 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 3: of all, enrollments arising at primary schools they're expected to 37 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 3: grow by eleven percent between twenty twenty one and twenty 38 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 3: thirty one, and secondary enrollments are also projected to grow 39 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 3: by ten percent. This is also then coupled by an 40 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 3: aging teaching population and according to this report, as teachers retire, 41 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 3: they aren't actually being replaced fast enough because teacher graduate 42 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 3: numbers are also declining, so that, according to the government, 43 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 3: is where this shortage lies. And then of course things 44 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 3: like COVID and illness has then exacerbated the issue. 45 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 2: More students, less teachers, and a pandemic gets cleared, the 46 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 2: systems under stress. When we were having a chat about 47 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 2: this in the newsroom yesterday, we were really keen to 48 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 2: understand how the teachers in our audience were really experiencing 49 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 2: the system firsthand. You put up a poll on our Instagram. 50 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 2: What kind of responses did you get? 51 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 3: Well, we got hundreds of messages, and they were really 52 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 3: filled with emotion. It was quite hard to read some 53 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 3: of them, so I'll read out a couple that are 54 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 3: at the top. One person said they were weren't coping 55 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 3: very well. She said, I mean my first year out 56 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 3: of UNI and already looking to change careers. Another said 57 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 3: we recently had to hire four unsuitable teachers because literally 58 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 3: no one else applied. Someone else posited that it's awful 59 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 3: not to mention the workload is absolutely out of control 60 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,959 Speaker 3: and there's a severe lack of permanent positions. One other 61 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 3: added that we're not coping at all. It's extremely hard 62 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 3: We're all burnt out but have nothing left to turn to. 63 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 3: People with years and years of experience were reflecting that 64 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,119 Speaker 3: they'd never seen anything like it, and one person said, 65 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 3: the shortage is having such an impact that in my 66 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 3: fourteen years, I've legitimately never seen this before. This burnout 67 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 3: and frustration and exhaustion seems to be quite consistent across 68 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 3: the board in the people that we spoke to. 69 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 2: It's some pretty overwhelming qualitative responses we got on our poll. 70 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 2: Is there any research that compliments what we found yesterday? 71 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 3: What we heard on Instagram is very much mirrored in 72 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 3: what the research has been telling us. Can point to 73 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 3: a study from Monash University in May which interviewed over 74 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 3: two thousand Ossie primary school and secondary school teachers. It 75 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 3: found the fifty nine percent of them said that they 76 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,839 Speaker 3: wanted to quit. And one of the messages we got 77 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 3: on Instagram was from a woman named Nadia who said, 78 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 3: and I quote, I'm one of the teachers that left 79 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 3: and contributed to the shortage. 80 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 4: My name is Nadia. I am a teacher with ten 81 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 4: years experience combined. I love the classroom. It was a 82 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 4: safe space for the kids. It was a sanctuary for them. 83 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 4: It wasn't my classroom, it was our classroom. Honestly, if 84 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 4: it wasn't for everything else making the actual teaching part 85 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 4: really difficult, I'd still be there. So I worked across 86 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 4: government schools, solic public funded schools. As the years progressed, 87 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 4: I guess class size has got really unmanageable. We don't 88 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 4: get to leave at three point thirty. There's an audio 89 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 4: clip that you can use over and over and over again. 90 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 4: You know, we stayed back for meetings and planning and 91 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 4: like I never used to leave before seven. I frequently 92 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 4: get kicked out of school because I just didn't have 93 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 4: the time and I didn't want to take my work 94 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 4: home because you need to keep that separate. It can 95 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 4: become really taxing and frustrating. And then still turn up 96 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 4: every day and be like, hi, guys, like we're going 97 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 4: to have an awesome day when you're literally your eyeballs 98 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 4: are falling out of your head. 99 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: And then the. 100 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 4: Curriculum changed twice, so that was really difficult to navigate, 101 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 4: and then of course COVID happened, so the expectation to 102 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 4: take what we do day in and day out to 103 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 4: our own homes and still do it well kind of 104 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 4: was the nail in the coffin of just the slowly 105 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 4: embedded bureaucracy and just little changes that were really making 106 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 4: the teaching part of it really hard. So it was 107 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 4: something so I am in the middle of last year, 108 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 4: so twenty twenty one just couldn't take it anymore. I 109 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 4: decided I came first, and as devastating as it was 110 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 4: to leave a group of grade sixers about to go 111 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 4: to high school, I was not able to be there 112 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 4: for them the way that I needed to be. So 113 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 4: I just left. I cried a lot. I cried so much, 114 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 4: Trust me, it broke my heart. I didn't work for 115 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 4: a bit deliberately. If I'm honest, I basically had a 116 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 4: mental breakdown. I couldn't function. I was just like, my 117 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 4: whole life now means nothing. Everything that I love and 118 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 4: everything that I work towards. I don't know what to 119 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 4: do with that anymore. And as teachers we really pigeonhole 120 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 4: ourselves very quickly that that's all we can do. 121 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 3: So Nadia now works for an organization called Barry Street. 122 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 3: She's working as a teacher again, but directly with kids 123 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 3: from vulnerable families that don't actually go to school. And 124 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 3: that means that even though Nadia has technically left schools herself, 125 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 3: she's still been there to witness the teacher shortage play out. 126 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 4: So I'm regional as well. I'm in Gippsland, so their 127 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 4: pool of teachers is already was all pretty low. And 128 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 4: what's happening when they can't fill an emergency role is 129 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:10,239 Speaker 4: they'll merge the classrooms, which is horrible when the class 130 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 4: sizes are already really big. Leadership is stepping in, teacher 131 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 4: aids are having to step up, so a lot of 132 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 4: them are staying back and doing the role of a 133 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 4: teacher and not getting paid for it, which is causing 134 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 4: a cascade of like negative emotions and negative environments. 135 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 2: Nadia's painting a pretty dire picture. What's the solution to 136 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 2: all of this? Do we know what's going to come 137 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 2: out of the meeting in Canberra today. 138 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 3: We'll have to wait and see exactly what will come 139 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 3: out of the meeting. But there was one suggestion in 140 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 3: New South Wales that new higher paid jobs could be 141 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 3: created for outstanding teachers, with salaries up to one hundred 142 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 3: and thirty thousand a year. We put this to Nadia 143 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 3: to see what she thought of that, and she wasn't 144 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 3: a big fan. 145 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 4: What do you consider high performing? You know, my philosophy 146 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 4: on teaching wasn't about academics. It was about the kids 147 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 4: feeling ready to learn. You know. So what are we 148 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 4: being measured by the quality or the quantity of the work. 149 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 2: What else is on the table? 150 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 3: Well, there have been reports that ministers will discuss lowering 151 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 3: UNI fees for teaching degrees and the use of employment 152 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 3: based degrees where teaching students would work in schools and 153 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 3: earn while they were studying. 154 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 4: I think working while studying would be a big one, 155 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 4: because when we're on placement, we don't get paid and 156 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 4: that's a big chunk of time that we take off 157 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 4: to then basically be a teacher. 158 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 2: And what does Nadia think is actually going to work? 159 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: Here? Ah? 160 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 4: Here? It is. The disconnect is government tells us this 161 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 4: we're on the ground, and we don't get listened to 162 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 4: the people on the ground. So I would just be like, 163 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 4: please have a forum where we can actively tell you 164 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 4: what desperately needs to be done and you actually action it. 165 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 4: We need more resources, we need more well it's not 166 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 4: even about the money. We need more space. We need 167 00:08:53,640 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 4: you know, more time, to be effective teachers. Let us teach, 168 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 4: don't make us report about our teaching. 169 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 2: In that deep dive, we said we'd have to wait 170 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 2: and see what came out of that Canber meeting in August, 171 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 2: and we now have a draft plan based on what 172 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 2: education department heads, schools and union leaders have suggested as 173 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 2: solutions to this crisis. The big headline here is a 174 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 2: three hundred and twenty eight million dollar figure, some of 175 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 2: which was announced in October's federal budget. This plan proposes 176 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,079 Speaker 2: a twenty five million dollar workload reduction pilot to try 177 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 2: and maximize the value of teacher's time, particularly in government 178 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 2: schools facing systemic disadvantage. There's also a ten million dollar 179 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 2: plan to raise the status of teachers. We'll be watching 180 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 2: as different state and territory governments continue to work on 181 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 2: addressing this shortage and spend the money allocated to them. 182 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 2: To all the teachers listening to this pod, I hope 183 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 2: that the year ahead is a better one with less 184 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: interruptions and more resources. Thanks for listening to this episode 185 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 2: of our special TDA summer series. We'll be back to 186 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 2: normal programming on the sixteenth of January, but if you 187 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 2: want some more breaking news. In the meantime, open your 188 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 2: phone and find us on Instagram. It's currently where over 189 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 2: four hundred and ten thousand Australians get their news, and 190 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 2: we are on even though you're on holiday.