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Speaker 1: Before we get into today's show, we just wanted to

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Speaker 1: issue a trigger warning in one of our segments we

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Speaker 1: do touch on issues about sexual assault. Hello, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to Outspoken.

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Speaker 2: You're dose of the hottest influencer and pop culture news

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Speaker 2: twice a week. I'm Sophie Torbert and I'm joined by

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Speaker 2: my sisters and journalists Kate and Amy. On today's show,

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Speaker 2: we set the record straight on the Carl and JACKIEO

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Speaker 2: debacle and the latest on Love Island UK. But first,

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Speaker 2: it has been quite a week in the podcasting world.

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Speaker 2: We have been dragged into quite the scandal involving the

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Speaker 2: Kyl and JACKIEO Show and the Shameless podcast. Kay, can

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Speaker 2: you take us back to where it began?

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Speaker 1: Yes? I can, because it is all quite complex and convoluted.

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Speaker 1: So it all started when Shameless released an episode in

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Speaker 1: late May entitled Ladies Please Remember Balls Empty Now. In

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Speaker 1: the episode, they discussed a segment from the Kyle and

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Speaker 1: Jackie O Show where Kyle said women should get intimate

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Speaker 1: with their male partners before they go out so their

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Speaker 1: balls are empty and they don't cheat. Shameless's segment was

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Speaker 1: only a couple of minutes long, with Zara saying it

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Speaker 1: didn't deserve their critical feminist analysis. Now, this ignited a

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Speaker 1: back and forth between the shows. The following Monday, the

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Speaker 1: Carl and JACKIEO Show responded to Shameless's segment, which Shameless

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Speaker 1: then discussed in depth on their Thursday episode. Shameless entitled

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Speaker 1: the episode this One's for Bruno and explain that they

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Speaker 1: had been notified by a wealth of dms that Carl

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Speaker 1: and JACKIEO had spoken about them.

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Speaker 3: Let's throw to what they said.

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Speaker 4: It was an interesting week. Did anyone else listen to

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Speaker 4: the Kyle and Jackie O Show on Monday?

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Speaker 3: I can't say that I did.

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Speaker 2: I did see a wealth of dms about it, and

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Speaker 2: I thought that seems like something I'm going to ignore

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Speaker 2: is delicious.

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Speaker 4: Well, clearly not so for me, because as soon as

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Speaker 4: I got a DM about this, I was like, well,

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Speaker 4: obviously I'm going to check that out.

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Speaker 2: Which speaks to our personalities because if you hear like

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Speaker 2: a little bit of something, you're like, dig dig dig

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Speaker 2: dig dig?

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Speaker 3: What else am I gonna find? I am like, oh,

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Speaker 3: what else can I have with?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Exactly? So I went deep. And by going deep, I'm

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Speaker 4: I just listened to the segment that they did on us.

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Speaker 1: So during the discussion, Michelle threw to two clips from

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Speaker 1: the show where Kyle Jackie O and producer Bruno mocked

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Speaker 1: the girls, which they giggled along with. In the last clip,

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Speaker 1: it was revealed that Bruno had a problem with Shameless

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Speaker 1: because they created a list about the best chocolates, which

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Speaker 1: is apparently his thing, as he's known as the list king. Now,

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Speaker 1: Michelle responded saying this, I.

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Speaker 4: Need to tell the world we have been framed. This

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Speaker 4: is like a case of mistaken or stolen identity. Bruno

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Speaker 4: hates us. Producer Bruno from Kyle and JACKIEYO did a

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Speaker 4: seven minute segment on us and hates us because we

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Speaker 4: stole his list idea and apparently ranked chocolates recently, which

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Speaker 4: we just never did. And now I'm very confused.

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Speaker 2: I just want.

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Speaker 4: Bruno to address the chocolate list thing. Where did you

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Speaker 4: see that? I know we did one maybe in twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 4: but we haven't in the last four years. So I

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Speaker 4: just love to know who's mistaken us for Yeah.

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Speaker 3: He's a case of mistaken identity.

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Speaker 2: So after Shameless's segment aired, we received a lot of

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Speaker 2: dms from our listeners saying Bruno had confused us with Shameless,

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Speaker 2: and we all thought this was a bit of a laugh,

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Speaker 2: so we contacted Zara and Michelle to tell them it

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Speaker 2: was actually us that Bruno had mistaken them for. So

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Speaker 2: we also contacted Bruno and she had an Instagram story

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Speaker 2: saying a mystery solved and tagged both Shameless and Bruno.

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Speaker 2: We did receive a short DM from the Shameless account

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Speaker 2: saying oh my gosh, and that was essentially it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So fast forward to Monday last week and The

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Speaker 1: Kyle and Jackie O Show recorded another lengthy segment about

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Speaker 1: what they dubbed Shameless Gait, and this time the segment

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Speaker 1: went for almost eleven minutes and we were included.

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Speaker 3: In the narrative.

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Speaker 1: So, after recapping the past events, Bruno admitted that he

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Speaker 1: had gotten Shameless and Outspoken mixed up. He then said

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Speaker 1: he guessed he owed Shameless an apology. He then proceeded

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Speaker 1: to say that he now liked Zara and Michelle because

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Speaker 1: they were hot. He said he watched their videos and

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Speaker 1: found them very attractive and hoped they could be friends

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Speaker 1: and go out for drinks. Kyle suggested perhaps Bruno could

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Speaker 1: be a guest on Shameless's podcast during Mental Health Week

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Speaker 1: to which Bruno agreed and said maybe he could forget

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Speaker 1: to take his tablets. Our podcast then received a roasting.

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Speaker 1: They mocked the tagline on our website, which reads issues

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Speaker 1: facing women and the fun stuff. Kyle said, we speak

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Speaker 1: about discharge and stealing lists. They also said our podcast

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Speaker 1: must be super woke because there's three female hosts. Now,

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Speaker 1: if this all wasn't bad enough, they finished with this, Yeah, Shameless,

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Speaker 1: sorry time, and I'm sorry to the hot girls from

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Speaker 1: Shameless and the ugly girls from Outspoken.

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Speaker 4: Better watch yourself, Better watch.

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Speaker 1: Yourself when the big dog comes barking, better watch yourself.

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Speaker 2: Now. We only found out that this segment existed on

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Speaker 2: Thursday through our best friend, who messaged us asking if

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Speaker 2: we were okay. And it was really mortifying, to say

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Speaker 2: the least, finding out through a friend that you'd been

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Speaker 2: called ugly on the biggest radio show in Australia. And

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Speaker 2: we then remembered that Shameless had released an episode that day,

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Speaker 2: so assume they would have called out the segment. So

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Speaker 2: to say that we were shocked when we listened to

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Speaker 2: their discussion about it is an understatement.

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Speaker 3: This is what they said.

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Speaker 4: I also, of course listened to our apology on Carl

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Speaker 4: and Jackie O. Don't know if you guys heard it.

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Speaker 4: It was an interesting apology as far as apologies go,

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Speaker 4: but we got it. So thank you for the extra

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Speaker 4: minutes on the biggest radio show on the world, Kyl

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Speaker 4: and Jackie Oote.

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Speaker 2: Kay. We will take any public good publicity there, yay.

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Speaker 1: Now, it is important to point out that the following day,

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Speaker 1: Shameless updated their Instagram followers on their stance on the matter,

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Speaker 1: which we'll go into a little bit later. Now, there

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Speaker 1: is just so much to unpack here, but I wanted

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Speaker 1: to start by explaining who Bruno is because he is

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Speaker 1: getting a lot of airtime, and I was surprised to

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Speaker 1: learn that he is thirty six years old, even though

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's quite young to have these sorts of

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Speaker 1: sexist views. He's married and has a three year old

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Speaker 1: daughter called Juliet.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 1: Bruno is the former executive producer of the Kyl and

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Speaker 1: Jackie O Show. He actually left the show in twenty

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Speaker 1: eighteen to become Kyle's manager and the managing direct of

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Speaker 1: his company, King Kyle.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: It's not the first time Bruno has caused controversy on air.

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Speaker 1: In twenty eleven, listeners called for his sacking following comments

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Speaker 1: he made about organ donation and the fact that he

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Speaker 1: would never consider donating his own. In twenty twelve, he

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Speaker 1: was fired from the show as a guest and talent

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Speaker 1: producer after making jokes on Twitter about the twenty twelve Aurora,

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Speaker 1: Colorado shooting. The content on Bruno's website has also come

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Speaker 1: into question. Bruno's website allegedly featured a video of a

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Speaker 1: man apparently beating up a woman in front of her child.

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Speaker 1: It also featured an anti Obama sticker on a car

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Speaker 1: with the phrase do not renig. In twenty twelve, content

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Speaker 1: on his website also included Bruno loves boobs and an

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Speaker 1: image of a man dressed in a fancy dress costume

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Speaker 1: made to look like a sanitary pad.

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Speaker 2: It's quite clear that Bruno is cut from the same

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Speaker 2: cloth as Kyl Sanderlans and he has based his radio

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Speaker 2: career off being very controversial. Now. Bruno did reach out

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Speaker 2: and apologize to us via an Instagram DM, but in

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Speaker 2: the same breath he asked if he could appear on

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Speaker 2: our podcast to explain himself. He also did so when

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Speaker 2: he was discussing shameless He said how desperate he was

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Speaker 2: to get on their podcast, and we explained that we

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Speaker 2: were disgusted by his comments and asked him to provide

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Speaker 2: more detail about what went down on the show, which

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Speaker 2: he never responded to, and we simply refuse to give

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Speaker 2: any more airtime to a thirty six year old man

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Speaker 2: who chooses to objectify, bully, under grade women based on

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Speaker 2: their appearance, who already has the biggest platform in Australian radio.

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Speaker 2: Over the weekend, I was reading this really good article

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Speaker 2: in the Washington Post which gave me an insight into

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Speaker 2: Bruno's behavior. So the article, written by Meredith Simmons, was

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Speaker 2: entitled don't like what a woman is saying?

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Speaker 3: Call her ugly?

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Speaker 1: And in the article, the journalists discussed how the response

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Speaker 1: is a time honored tradition and a technique Trump employed

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Speaker 1: a lot. The journalists explained, no matter what field women

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Speaker 1: work in, whether it's politics, journalism, or sport, women face

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Speaker 1: criticism of their appearance that is totally unrelated to their

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Speaker 1: job description. Gee that sounds familiar, the journalist wrote. It

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Speaker 1: seems that any woman who has the audacity to speak

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Speaker 1: in a public forum will be evaluated not only on

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Speaker 1: the substance of what she says or how well she

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Speaker 1: does her job, but what she weighs, what she's wearing,

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Speaker 1: and what her hairstyle says about her. Needless to say,

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Speaker 1: men hardly face similar critiques. So essentially, this article was

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Speaker 1: saying that discussing a woman's appearance is a way of

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Speaker 1: undermining their credibility. And you notice that this happens a

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Speaker 1: lot in politics. So as soon as a woman's ideas

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Speaker 1: or power becomes threatening, you often see them referred to

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Speaker 1: in terms of their appearance and as used as a

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Speaker 1: way to distract, to trivialize, and to divert attention from

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Speaker 1: the important things women are saying and doing, and making

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Speaker 1: fun of someone's appearance also puts that person below you,

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Speaker 1: whereas if you then choose to engage with someone based

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Speaker 1: on their ideas, it's a level playing field. So it's

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Speaker 1: just a bit of an insight into why men decide

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Speaker 1: to call women ugly or comment on their appearance when

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Speaker 1: they feel threatened. And clearly Bruno is feeling threatened that

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Speaker 1: these two female led podcasts are doing something amazing in

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Speaker 1: that space and oh god forbid, doing a chocolate hierarchy

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Speaker 1: over him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and podcaster Meghan Pissetto. She made a really good

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Speaker 2: point following all the backlash about Bruno's comments, and she said,

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Speaker 2: how does a comment like this make the cut from

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Speaker 2: the radio show then to be put out on a podcast,

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Speaker 2: because there were so many people who would have had

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Speaker 2: to listen to that audio for them to be placed

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Speaker 2: on the Carl and JACKIEO Show podcast. And it is

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Speaker 2: a comment that could have been easily edited out of

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Speaker 2: the podcast. And while it's not women's job to pull

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Speaker 2: up men for their misogynistic behavior, it doesn't make it

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Speaker 2: any less disappointing that JACKIEO and the other females didn't

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Speaker 2: do this. I think I was so taken aback by

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Speaker 2: the ugly comment that I originally didn't even notice Bruno's

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Speaker 2: threatening tone, And it wasn't until Meghan Pisetto pointed it

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Speaker 2: out on her Instagram story that I realized. So to

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Speaker 2: remind you, he said, and to the ugly girls from Outspoken,

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Speaker 2: watch yourself when the big dog comes barking. Now, the

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Speaker 2: fact who deem this an appropriate way to behave in

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Speaker 2: public on the country's biggest radio station makes me feel

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Speaker 2: very uneasy. How is he acting behind closed doors? And

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Speaker 2: to remind everyone. This is over the fact that three

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Speaker 2: women dared to do an Easter food hierarchy because that's

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Speaker 2: his thing, not that he did it this year or

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Speaker 2: hasn't done it for a couple of years, but he

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Speaker 2: used to make lists. Is it wrong that it makes

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Speaker 2: me want to create a list even more? Because I

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Speaker 2: think it's just ridiculous that this guy who works in

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Speaker 2: radio claims that lists are his thing. I mean, there's

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Speaker 2: countless radio stations that put out this type of content,

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Speaker 2: not just him. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, I did see one of our lovely listeners suggested

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Speaker 1: that we should do a hierarchy of the biggest dicks

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Speaker 1: on radio, and he commit at them number one.

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Speaker 2: Now jokes aside, because this really hasn't been a pleasant

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Speaker 2: time for us, I do want to talk about how

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Speaker 2: we felt on Thursday night, because it was incredibly tough

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Speaker 2: for us, and it did feel like two of the

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Speaker 2: biggest podcasts in the country were ganging up on us

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Speaker 2: and it even affected our family. Many of them are,

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Speaker 2: of course, really upset and offended by the comments. It

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Speaker 2: honestly just felt like we were back at high school.

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Speaker 2: It was really humiliating and degrading to be spoken about

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Speaker 2: like that on the country's biggest stage, and.

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Speaker 1: To originally hear Michelle Andrews thank Bruno for his apology

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Speaker 1: and be excited about getting more minutes on the Kyle

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Speaker 1: and Jackie Oh Show was really hard to stomach. So

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Speaker 1: we just couldn't sit back and not say something about

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Speaker 1: the matter on our socials, and we were really pleased

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Speaker 1: to see that Shameless updated their stance on Bruno's apology

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Speaker 1: Following our Instagram post, now Shameless posted a lengthy statement

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Speaker 1: on their feed, which we will link in the show notes.

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Speaker 1: They started by saying, last night, it was brought to

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Speaker 1: our attention by Outspoken the podcast that after Bruno Bouchet

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Speaker 1: from The Kyl and Jackie Oh Show wrapped up his

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Speaker 1: apology to us, he made some awful remarks about Sophie

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Speaker 1: Amy and Kate Torber. We were mortified to have learnt this,

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Speaker 1: and we don't stand by that for a second. We

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Speaker 1: had only listened to a screen recording of the radio

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Speaker 1: show sent to us by a listener and truly believed,

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Speaker 1: given the two two minute snipet ended with what sounded

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Speaker 1: like a conclusion of the segment, that there was nothing

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Speaker 1: more to hear. We now know that there were further

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Speaker 1: comments made on the radio after we were spoken about,

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Speaker 1: and we want to address them publicly. They went on

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Speaker 1: to say two groups of women, both ourselves and Outspoken,

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Speaker 1: were objectified on live radio. They explained that they didn't

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Speaker 1: want to address the comments in their episode because the

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Speaker 1: show had firstly sexualized them in their workplace and insinuated

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Speaker 1: the only reason men would engage with their content is

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Speaker 1: because of their appearance. Secondly, the comments made them feel

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Speaker 1: deeply uncomfortable and exposed. Michelle and Zara went on to

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Speaker 1: say that dropping the topic altogether was not an option either,

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Speaker 1: as the debacle had been a title of their previous episode.

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Speaker 1: They said they couldn't ignore the apology they had asked

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Speaker 1: for seven days prior, as it would have confused thousands

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Speaker 1: of listeners now. Seamler said that they only listened to

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Speaker 1: two minutes of the eleven minute topic and missed the

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Speaker 1: part of the apology where Bruno objectified us. They said

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Speaker 1: that they were blown away by how gross Bruno was

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Speaker 1: and that his comments were sex and degrading, and they

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Speaker 1: back us one hundred percent for calling it out. They

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Speaker 1: went on to say what they will never do, though,

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Speaker 1: is be sucked into some kind of feuding women narrative,

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Speaker 1: and pointed out that the comments were made by a

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Speaker 1: man about two sets of women, and it was Bruno

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Speaker 1: and Bruno alone who made the comment.

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Speaker 2: We do really want to thank Shameless for changing their

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Speaker 2: public stance on the issue and condemning Bruno's comments. It

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Speaker 2: really did meet a lot to us, and I think

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Speaker 2: that they summarize things really well. I think the saddest

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Speaker 2: thing for me is how much this whole debacle showed

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Speaker 2: that the patriarchy is still well and truly in power.

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Speaker 2: The fact that arguably the most powerful women in Australian

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Speaker 2: podcasting felt pressured enough to originally stay silent when Bruno's

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Speaker 2: comments had made them feel so uncomfortable speaks volumes to

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Speaker 2: how powerful this radio show is. Yeah, and I think

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Speaker 2: we've all been in situations when men in power have

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Speaker 2: made comments to us in the workplace or even in

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Speaker 2: social situations, and we felt like the only option is

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Speaker 2: to laugh off those comments, which I feel like is

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Speaker 2: what Zara and Michelle did here. And sometimes you feel

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Speaker 2: like it's the only way to make these comments stop,

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Speaker 2: or perhaps you feel intimidated or frankly just don't know

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Speaker 2: what to say and it can be very hard sometimes

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Speaker 2: to find the courage to call out this type of

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Speaker 2: behavior and not play into these powerful figures games And

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Speaker 2: for any new listeners who may not know, in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 2: Amy and I both lost our jobs in news media

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Speaker 2: because we stood up to someone who sexually harassed Amy

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Speaker 2: and making that complaint ultimately lost us our jobs, but

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Speaker 2: we fought it, so Amy took legal action against the

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Speaker 2: organization and it was settled out of court. If you

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Speaker 2: are interested to find out more, we will put a

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Speaker 2: link to a great piece that the seven thirty report

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Speaker 2: did on the whole debarcle. I thought it was important

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Speaker 2: to share this because the day that story aired, the

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Speaker 2: media organization in question their shares actually dropped dramatically on

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Speaker 2: the market, and there were so many think pieces questioning

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Speaker 2: the misogyny in workplaces like this, And I think when

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Speaker 2: women find the courage to stand up and speak out,

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Speaker 2: amazing things can happen, and that's when change occurs. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I know it's not fair that women have to be

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Speaker 2: the ones to do it, but we do need to

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Speaker 2: be able to back each other and be there to

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Speaker 2: support one another when these sorts of things happen.

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Speaker 3: I totally agree.

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Speaker 1: And the thing is, whilst it's incredibly hurtful to be

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Speaker 1: called ugly, being called hot can be equally as problematic

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Speaker 1: because while some people may think it's a compliment, it

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Speaker 1: actually just sexualizes women and makes it all about how

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Speaker 1: they look. And with the Shameless girls, Bruno only seemed

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Speaker 1: to see their worth once he saw a photo of them.

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Speaker 1: It didn't matter to him how articulate and clever and

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Speaker 1: funny and hard working or successful they are. It all

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Speaker 1: came down to how they looked.

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Speaker 2: That being said, I do really wish that Shameless had

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Speaker 2: given the time to seek out Bruno's whole apology initially

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Speaker 2: before thanking them publicly on their platform. We have such

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Speaker 2: respect for the girls and to feel like both podcasts

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Speaker 2: we're in on some sort of joke about our show,

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Speaker 2: or that Shameless agreed with the sentiment, it really hurts.

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Speaker 2: And of course now the girls have cleared the air

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Speaker 2: with their very articulate apology, but we sort of wanted

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Speaker 2: to explain why we thought it was necessary to ask

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Speaker 2: them to rethink their acceptance of the first apology.

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Speaker 1: And the thing is, as we touched on before, you

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Speaker 1: can see how intimidating it would have been for them

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Speaker 1: to actually call them out originally without any other backing

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Speaker 1: from females because the Kyle and Jackie O show has

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Speaker 1: caused so much controversy over the years. In an interview

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Speaker 1: with sixty Minutes in twenty twenty, Jackie O said she

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Speaker 1: was worried that one day Kyle will say something that

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Speaker 1: will end his career.

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Speaker 3: She said that probably.

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Speaker 1: The hardest part when working with Kyle is that he

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Speaker 1: has this really beautiful side, and then with that comes

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Speaker 1: this other side that you think, oh no, why do

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Speaker 1: you have to say that?

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Speaker 4: Why?

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Speaker 1: I don't know why. I get nervous for him. She

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Speaker 1: then turned to Kyle in the interview and said, I'm

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Speaker 1: always worried you're going to say something that will one

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Speaker 1: day just ruin you.

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Speaker 2: In an interview on Mea Friedman's No Filter podcast, Kyle

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Speaker 2: revealed he has a clause in his contract that at

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Speaker 2: actually prevents him from being fired. He explained, I have

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Speaker 2: to deal with crisis PR people and they've always got

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Speaker 2: the wrong ideas, and I say, you really don't know

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Speaker 2: what you're doing. He continued, saying, I work for myself.

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Speaker 2: I don't really work for anyone. I don't have to

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Speaker 2: do anything that they say. He then reiterated that he

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Speaker 2: wasn't scared of losing his job because he's protected in

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Speaker 2: his contract. And whilst Kyl appears to be untouchable on radio,

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Speaker 2: in two thousand and nine, he was acts from the

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Speaker 2: judging panel of Australian Idol following an on air controversy.

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Speaker 2: So a teenage girl became emotional during a lie detective

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Speaker 2: segment on Kyle and Jackie Oh's Today AFM breakfast show

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Speaker 2: and reluctantly admitted she had been raped when she was

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Speaker 2: twelve years old. Kyle then replied, right, is that the

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Speaker 2: only experience you've had? At that moment, Jackie swiftly cut

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Speaker 2: off the segment and announced the show's host and producer

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Speaker 2: had no prior knowledge of the rape.

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Speaker 1: It is so baffling to me that Kyle is so

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Speaker 1: untouchable in twenty twenty two, But then when you think

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Speaker 1: about it, he and Jackie O reportedly each earn an

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Speaker 1: estimated eight million.

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Speaker 3: Dollars a year.

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Speaker 1: They are the highest paid media personalities in the country.

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Speaker 1: Now they take that money home because they have more

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Speaker 1: listeners than any other breakfast show in Australia, and they

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Speaker 1: made history last year, when the show took out its

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Speaker 1: nineteenth consecutive number one FM spot with a twelve point

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Speaker 1: nine percent share of the Sydney audience.

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Speaker 2: Well for the KRL and Jackie O Show, controversy sends

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Speaker 2: ratings through the roof. I feel like a lot of

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Speaker 2: us live in this little bubble on the Internet where

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Speaker 2: we follow people who uplift us and people who we

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Speaker 2: share similar values with, and we feel like the majority

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Speaker 2: of people think like us, that have moved away from

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Speaker 2: these sort of archaic sexist views. But sadly, the Carl

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Speaker 2: and Jackie O Show is evidence that so many people

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two still think so differently to us,

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Speaker 2: and we still have so far to come. I mean,

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Speaker 2: every day on the Internet, young women are canceled for

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Speaker 2: the slightest of things, from old tweet surfacing or pulling

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Speaker 2: an expression that we don't like, or for not standing

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Speaker 2: up against fast fashion brands. And we hold these women

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Speaker 2: to such a higher account than we do these shock

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Speaker 2: jobs because sadly, we don't expect much more from them,

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Speaker 2: and it's not really surprising to us when these sort

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Speaker 2: of comments come out of their mouths. However, I feel

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Speaker 2: like we really need to push back on this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Apby Chatfield did a great segment on her podcast

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Speaker 1: yesterday about this. She was saying, how when a controversy

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Speaker 1: like this happens, we're all compelled to go and listen

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Speaker 1: to the segment on the radio show or on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: and at the end of the day, that only bumps

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Speaker 1: up that podcast ratings. So executives see that controversies sell,

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Speaker 1: so then they continue the cycle. And it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like the influencer world. There's influences that you might not

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Speaker 1: agree with, but by continuing to hate, follow them, or

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Speaker 1: engage with their content, it only benefits them. So if

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Speaker 1: you take anything away from this segment, just remember your view, download,

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Speaker 1: or click actually matters, So don't engage with the content

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Speaker 1: that doesn't fulfill you or that you don't agree with.

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Speaker 2: It's important to point out that Bruno appeared on Tuesday's

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Speaker 2: episode of The Carl and Jackie You Show and they

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Speaker 2: did touch on the segment. However, there was absolutely no

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Speaker 2: apology towards our show or Shameless's show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Bruno seemed more concerned about apologizing for bringing Jackie

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Speaker 1: and Kyle into disrepute. It's like, hey, how about you

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Speaker 1: fucking apologize to the people that you hurt instead of

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Speaker 1: sending us a pathetic DM that you didn't clearly stand by.

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Speaker 1: How about you apologize on your platform rather than begging

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Speaker 1: us to get onto ours.

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Speaker 2: I feel like that's a bit unfortunate. Last name Besh

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Speaker 2: Love Island UK has been heating up our screen since

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Speaker 2: the premiered last week, but it's one of Islander's former

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Speaker 2: flame that's got everyone talking amy what has gone down?

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 2: Late last week news broke that fan favorite Luca Bish,

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Speaker 2: who's the twenty three year old fishmonger from Brighton It

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Speaker 2: previously dated at UK influence at Saffron Barker. And what

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Speaker 2: makes this story even more juicy is allegations of what

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Speaker 2: I like to call a love square.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: Prior to dating Saffron, Luca dated another well known influencer

440
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,639
Speaker 2: called Sophie Rimmer. Now she's known as Sophie Floyd on

441
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,880
Speaker 2: social media and they dated for four years. So it's

442
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,960
Speaker 2: claimed that Luca left his ex to be with Saffron

443
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 2: Baker last year. And to add salt to the wound, Luca,

444
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 2: Sophie and Saffron all went to school together in Brighton

445
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:32,200
Speaker 2: and Sophie and Saffron were friends. So Sophie addresses split

446
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,119
Speaker 2: last year on her YouTube channel, saying, it just feels

447
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,480
Speaker 2: like I've kind of lost a best friend, which is

448
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 2: fucking horrible, and it does like really hurt now. Before

449
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,880
Speaker 2: entering the villa, Luca did some media interviews and told

450
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,879
Speaker 2: a number of publications about his romance with Saffron. He

451
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,879
Speaker 2: confirmed they dated a few months last year after meeting

452
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,400
Speaker 2: through friends. He said, I think she had just come

453
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,120
Speaker 2: out of a relationship that year.

454
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 3: That was it.

455
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 2: We just kind of hit the ground running a bit.

456
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 2: We still remain real good mates.

457
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 3: He said.

458
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,159
Speaker 2: The reason for their split was because she had a

459
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 2: very busy lifestyle and he has to work nights. I

460
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,679
Speaker 2: actually can see them getting along really well because I

461
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 2: feel like they've both got great band to big personalities.

462
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 3: See.

463
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,640
Speaker 1: I am a keen follower of Saffron Baker, but I

464
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 1: never knew that this relationship even happened, and that's because

465
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 1: she never posted about Luca or discussed him on her

466
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 1: YouTube channel. However, Luca did share as cheeky inst story

467
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 1: of the two cuddling in bed, which is now doing

468
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 1: the rounds on TikTok, of course, and this led many

469
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 1: to question Luca's motivation for hooking up with Saffron. Now

470
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,640
Speaker 1: there's been even more rumors swirling around on TikTok. There's

471
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 1: been a number of unsubstantiated claims that Saffron and Luca

472
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:45,120
Speaker 1: got together during Saffron's girls trip to Dubai, and Saffron

473
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 1: actually documented this holiday on her YouTube channel. There was

474
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 1: also another rumour doing the rounds that so Floyd found

475
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 1: out about Saffron and Luca because Luca got sent a

476
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: speeding fine which was sent to their house and Saffron

477
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 1: was pictured in the car. Now, at the time, Saffron

478
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 1: was still publicly together with her then boyfriend Tyler, and interestingly,

479
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 1: Saffron and Tyler split not long after the fateful Dubai trip,

480
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,160
Speaker 1: and following this trip, Sophie Floyd stopped following Saffron on Instagram.

481
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 3: So read into that what you want to now.

482
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 2: Saffron's representatives have responded to the media reports by simply

483
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 2: saying Saffron didn't do anything wrong.

484
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 3: There has been.

485
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 2: No official word though, from Saffron, despite followers flooding her

486
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 2: comments and Instagram lives with questions about Luca. I would

487
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,160
Speaker 2: love to know, though, how Saffron's ex, Tyler feels about

488
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,400
Speaker 2: it all because they split in November twenty twenty one,

489
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 2: and I remember at the time thinking that it was

490
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,919
Speaker 2: all a bit strange because Saffron recently had taken Tyler

491
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,120
Speaker 2: on a holiday with her and a family, and when

492
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 2: they did announce their split, Saffron told her followers during

493
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 2: an Instagram Q and A that there was no bad

494
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 2: blood between her and Tyler and they will always stay friends.

495
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 2: But since then, the pair have unfollowed each other and

496
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,200
Speaker 2: Tyler has deleted all of his photos with Saffron. It's

497
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 2: all coming out though now so because a few months ago,

498
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 2: Tyler did a Q and A on his Instagram where

499
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 2: he said something along the lines of the truth always

500
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 2: comes out.

501
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 3: Do you guys think Luca will talk about Saffron and

502
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 3: the Villa?

503
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 2: I reckon he's already spoken about her to the other Islanders.

504
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,360
Speaker 2: All the guys seem to show off about people they've

505
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 2: dated as soon as they get in there. I do

506
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 2: think the ITV might choose not to play those sections

507
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 2: where he discusses her, because Saffron did appear on ITV's

508
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 2: Strictly Borroom, as well as a number of other shows,

509
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 2: so they might be trying to protect her. But don't

510
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 2: you think it's weird that there's quotes from Luca from

511
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 2: before he was in the Love Island villa, almost promoting

512
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 2: the fact he's on Love Island where he's talking about Saffron.

513
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 2: I wonder if they have purposely timed the release of

514
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 2: these quotes, and will Saffron Barker pop up in the

515
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 2: Love Island villa.

516
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,120
Speaker 3: That could be true because I was talking to Reece.

517
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: We actually caught up on all of the Love Islands

518
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,679
Speaker 1: on Saturday night. It was a wild night, and I

519
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 1: noticed that in the start of the show they obviously

520
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: let the viewers pick who got coupled up with, and

521
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: I sort of thought they were starting to try and

522
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 1: shake things up a bit and bring in elements of

523
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 1: other reality TV shows. So I kind of thought having

524
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 1: the couple's pre matched was a little bit Maths esque,

525
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: because I know Math's Australia is really popular in the UK.

526
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: And then I saw a promo that Jemma's ex is

527
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: being brought into the villa tonight, and that's very X

528
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 1: on the Beach esque, so perhaps they will be bringing

529
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 1: his ex Lucas X Saffron Barker into the villa. How

530
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: amazing would that be? Particularly love of Saffron has stayed

531
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 1: quiet on it.

532
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 3: Or maybe they're going to bring in Sophie Floyd.

533
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 2: Now, kay, you touched on Jemma Owens and much of

534
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 2: the show has so far focused around the nineteen year

535
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 2: old contestant. Now she is the daughter of English soccer

536
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,479
Speaker 2: player Michael Owens, who played for Liverpool and Manchester, and

537
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 2: he is worth an estimated sixty eight million dollars. No

538
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 2: wonder she can afford to have twelve horses. I love

539
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 2: how she casually dropped that into conversationshilarious, You've just got

540
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 2: twelve horses?

541
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: Yes, if it was so normal, Yeah, I've got twelve

542
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: horses at my house.

543
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 2: And Jemma is yet to reveal that Michael Owens is

544
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 2: her father, but it's safe to say that a lot

545
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 2: of the drama has been around her. She was one

546
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 2: of the first contestants to generate headlines when she was

547
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 2: coupled up with twenty seven year old Dava Day. Now.

548
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 3: Dave Day had the.

549
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 2: Opportunity to pick from any of the female contestants in

550
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 2: the villa, and he chose the nineteen year old, and

551
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 2: many were surprised considering the large age gap, and there

552
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 2: were plenty of think pieces saying there was a huge

553
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 2: maturity gap and also an unbalanced power dynamic.

554
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 3: And it was quite awkward because.

555
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 2: During Gemma and daver Day's date, Jemma revealed to him

556
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 2: that she still lived at home, and this was then

557
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 2: followed by dover Day saying that he moved into his

558
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 2: own place when he was eighteen. Now, that was almost

559
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 2: a decade ago, so let's put this into perspective. Jemma

560
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 2: would have only been nine years old when he moved

561
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 2: into his new apartment. Now, one online user wrote, I

562
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 2: cannot imagine being twenty seven and keen to share a

563
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 2: bed with a nineteen year old. None of this is

564
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 2: sitting right with me? Anote, doesn't Jemma need a permission

565
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 2: slip before leaving the villa with dub Day. Now that

566
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 2: being said, anyone who has watched this show intently will

567
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 2: know that Jemma isn't your average nineteen year old.

568
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 3: She comes across as really.

569
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 2: Confident and strong and upfront, and she seems to be

570
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 2: able to handle herself and she knows what she wants. Now,

571
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 2: she's since been coupled up with someone closer in age,

572
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 2: and that is, of course Luca, who's been causing all

573
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 2: of this controversy.

574
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 3: To be honest, I was.

575
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 1: Really surprised by the whole backlash about the age gap.

576
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: I didn't think it was a big enough age gap

577
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 1: for people to be complaining about, considering that Jemma is

578
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: over eighteen, and I mean, we talk about power and balance,

579
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: but they're both on the show. They both have the

580
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: opportunity to choose yes or no.

581
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 2: Well, her dad, Michael Owens, has responded to those who

582
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 2: were saying she was too young to go on the show,

583
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 2: and he pointed out that he joined Liverpool when he

584
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 2: was seventeen and she's had two more years than he

585
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 2: has to get ready for life in the public eye.

586
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 2: He also continued by saying she's a mature nineteen. She's

587
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 2: a bit like me in that regard. I was playing

588
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 2: for Liverpool when I was seventeen and having to make

589
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 2: friends with twenty three, twenty four to twenty five year olds.

590
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 2: The bottom line is she's an adult and I have

591
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 2: to trust her to make sensible decisions now. My dad

592
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 2: also called out a tweet written by a football coach

593
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 2: which said can't wait to see her getting smashed alongside

594
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 2: a series of laughing emojis. Michael Owen wrote, what a

595
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,719
Speaker 2: fine example to set from a man in your responsible position.

596
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 2: Anytime I watch Love Island, I actually do think about

597
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 2: all their parents, because when you watch it, it's easy

598
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 2: to forget that these are people's children. And can you

599
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 2: imagine your parents watching your Love.

600
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 3: Island kissing people and they would just be horrendous.

601
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 2: Well, he did joke earlier that it's a father's worst

602
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 2: nightmare for their daughter to enter the villa, but he

603
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 2: seems to be handling it quite well. What did bring

604
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 2: me back to her young age though, was her dad

605
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 2: also said that one of the things he wasn't happy

606
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 2: about on the show was the amount of swearing, because

607
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 2: Jemma isn't allowed to swear at home.

608
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: Now back to Jemma's ex boyfriend who is entering the villa.

609
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: He is a professional rugby player called Jack O'Neill and

610
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: his club Castleford Tigers has released him from his contract

611
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: to allow him to pursue the show, so he and

612
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: Jemma apparently split because he spent too much time on

613
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: his rugby and not enough time on her now apparently

614
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: in the episode which does air tonight, so sorry if

615
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: anyone's actually already seen it, But apparently Jemma runs off

616
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: to put her makeup on after she realizes her ex

617
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: boyfriend has entered the villa. So in the preview that

618
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: we've seen, Jack sits in the villa garden while the

619
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: girls are on the balcony, and the remaining girls wondered

620
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: who he could be before a shocked Jemma realized it's

621
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: her ex boyfriend, so she quickly ran into the bathroom

622
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 1: put her makeup on, and she said to Tash that

623
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,239
Speaker 1: she hasn't seen Jack since they broke up.

624
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 2: I didn't see an issue with her running to put

625
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 2: makeup on it all. I don't know why she was

626
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 2: copping heat for that. That's probably the first thing I

627
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 2: would do if my ex boyfriend came into the villain.

628
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: I wonder if this is the ex boyfriend that's meant

629
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: to look like dover Day, because she did say, oh, yeah,

630
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: I've dated some that looks he is.

631
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 2: He actually does look like him. They have very similar features. Now,

632
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 2: I don't think you guys are going to believe this

633
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 2: because there's also rumors swirling that Gemma's other ex maybe

634
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 2: entering the villa, and this time it is a footballer

635
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 2: called Cameron Green. Now. Producers have denied that there's any

636
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 2: prior romantic connection between Gemma and Cameron, saying they're just

637
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 2: close friends. Now, Cameron reportedly spent time at the Owen

638
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 2: family home and appears in a promotional post on Jemma's

639
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 2: dad's Instagram account. I mean, what have their producers done.

640
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 2: They've just trolled through anyone that Jemma has had any

641
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 2: sort of relationship with and invited into the vill It's really.

642
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 3: Becoming the Gemma Show, and I'm going to call it.

643
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 2: I think she's going to come out of the villa

644
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 2: and arguably be just as big as Molly may Well.

645
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: I think that's all we've got time for today. Thank

646
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: you so much for listening to another episode of Outspoken,

647
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: and if you did enjoy the show, please leave us

648
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: a five star review. Don't forget to join in on

649
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: all the conversations in our Facebook group, which is Outspoken

650
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: the podcast community, and please give us a follow over

651
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: on TikTok and Instagram.

652
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 3: Our handle is Outspoken

653
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: Underscore, the Underscore Podcast