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Speaker 1: On a very serious note, we know that the calls

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Speaker 1: to strengthen youth bail laws are getting louder around the

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Speaker 1: nation and the Northern Territory Police Association has thrown their

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Speaker 1: support around the Queensland Police Union who are calling for

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Speaker 1: action around youth crime, including a national summit on youth crime. Now,

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Speaker 1: the president of the Police Association, Paul mchuue, joins me

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Speaker 1: on the line right now. Good morning, Paul, Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Not too bad. You and I have spoken on so

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Speaker 1: many occasions about this very issue, and yesterday I was

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Speaker 1: talking on air about the Queensland Police obviously their union,

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Speaker 1: saying that there are five things which should change in

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Speaker 1: Queensland to reduce youth crime now. They include legislation strengthening

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Speaker 1: youth bail laws and having longer prison sentences for juveniles,

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Speaker 1: as well as technology including GPS resourcing, so more resources

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Speaker 1: for police and child safety officers targeting the juvenile offended demographic. Ie.

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Speaker 1: Juvenile offenders are predominantly Indigenous, it says in this report,

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Speaker 1: so let's work with elders to tackle these social issues

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Speaker 1: and finally, a national summit on youth crime, not just

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Speaker 1: a talk fest. And they're saying there must be real

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Speaker 1: commitment to real action. Paul, Should we be looking at

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Speaker 1: the same thing here in the territory.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, obviously my counterpart there in Queensland responding to

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Speaker 2: that horrendous incident that occurred recently over there, and of

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Speaker 2: course we've experienced something similarly here, sadly down in our

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Speaker 2: springs not too long ago, and I think the community

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Speaker 2: is starting to really I guess, turn up the Bunsen burner,

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Speaker 2: if you like, in terms of our current legislation, our

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Speaker 2: framework around youth crime and whether that's appropriate at the moment,

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Speaker 2: and whether the amendment's made you last year are actually working,

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Speaker 2: and whether the government's doing enough outside of police resourcing

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Speaker 2: and police requirements to actually tackle the bigger problem and

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Speaker 2: some of those points you've listed there. Obviously the legislation

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Speaker 2: and we talk about the youth bail laws quite regularly,

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Speaker 2: and what's required for our police officers there, and what's

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Speaker 2: I guess, what's available in terms of outside of police resourcing.

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Speaker 2: Obviously technology we talk about the ankle bracelets and the

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Speaker 2: GPS tracking and that technology actually it exists here and

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Speaker 2: it'd be interesting to find out from government just you know,

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Speaker 2: how much of that's being undertaken and the success rate

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Speaker 2: for example, and then of course those other points around

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Speaker 2: resourcing and the demographic and the national summit. I mean,

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Speaker 2: these are things that need to be talked about and

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Speaker 2: put on the table given the seriousness of what's going

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Speaker 2: on now.

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Speaker 1: In terms of those bail laws, let's talk about those

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Speaker 1: again briefly. Can I ask who called for the government

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Speaker 1: to change those bail laws? So there was not the

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Speaker 1: presumption against bail.

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Speaker 2: Look, I know that obviously it was a government initiative

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Speaker 2: and the Police Commissioner at the time Rees curse Or

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Speaker 2: made a brief submission relation to that in terms of

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Speaker 2: supporting not having you know, youths in custody unnecessarily, but

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Speaker 2: in terms of the actual amendments. So obviously that's through

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Speaker 2: government and other bodies that would have made significant submissions

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Speaker 2: in relation to those proposed amendments at the time. But

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Speaker 2: what we've got now is a situation where you know,

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Speaker 2: a bail undertaking is still an offense. So if a

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Speaker 2: person promises, obviously to be at court at a certain

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Speaker 2: data and they don't turn up, that's still an offense

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Speaker 2: and a warrant gets issued, but the conditions around bail,

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Speaker 2: such as a curfew or a certain address they must

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Speaker 2: reside at and who they must be with. They're no

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Speaker 2: longer an offense and so there is no real consequence

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Speaker 2: if that youth reaches those conditions whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: So just to go back to that, because there's been

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Speaker 1: some real sort of backwards and forwards confusion, I think

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Speaker 1: you'd say about who indeed wanted this change to come

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Speaker 1: into play when it comes to there, you know, so

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Speaker 1: that there was of course not a presumption against bail.

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Speaker 1: Now we had been told on air by the government

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Speaker 1: this it was something that the police had wanted. But

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Speaker 1: the more that I ask, the more I'm finding that

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Speaker 1: it doesn't seem as though that was actually the case.

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Speaker 2: No, the correspondence I've seen and the discussions I've had

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Speaker 2: is certainly the Commissioner at the time supported the fact

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Speaker 2: that we want to try and provide options where people

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Speaker 2: are not in custody. But of course I don't know

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Speaker 2: there was whole heart support in terms of amending the

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Speaker 2: bail condition breach as it was as it was put up.

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Speaker 2: So I think there needs to be you know, I

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Speaker 2: guess let's get that out and let's see how that

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Speaker 2: came about. But the fact of the matter is it's

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Speaker 2: in place now and we need to look and we've

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Speaker 2: had some you know, we've had quite a bit of

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Speaker 2: time now with this new new legislation in place, and

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Speaker 2: we need to sit down and say is it actually working?

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Speaker 2: Is it achieving what that amendment was hoping to it

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Speaker 2: even if it's not, and we're creating a situation where

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Speaker 2: we've got police running around twenty four to seven conveying

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Speaker 2: news back and forth trying to find responsible adults, Well

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Speaker 2: that's just not a great use of resources and the

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Speaker 2: community still at risk from further offending.

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Speaker 1: So from your perspective, was it a political decision or

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Speaker 1: a policing decision?

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Speaker 2: Well, obviously, the legislation gets amended through the political framework.

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Speaker 2: I mean that's how it all comes about, so the

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Speaker 2: decisions are made at that level. Certainly from our point

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Speaker 2: of view, we would you know, we would like to

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Speaker 2: know you know, who essentially wanted the amendments as they

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Speaker 2: have been written, how they were written, and you know

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Speaker 2: why they were actually put in place in the first place,

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Speaker 2: and what measures are being put in place, so we're

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Speaker 2: getting real data to say this actual amendment working. Are

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Speaker 2: we speaking to the people on the ground to see

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Speaker 2: if it's actually appropriate right now, because if it's not,

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Speaker 2: we need to have a look at it again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's a really valid point, that one

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Speaker 1: where you know, we've got to make sure that the

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Speaker 1: data actually fits the changes that it's working. Otherwise you

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Speaker 1: sort of need to question whether we've got to look

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Speaker 1: at different, different initiatives. And that's the whole discussion I

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Speaker 1: guess that Territorians are having at the moment. I know

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Speaker 1: that the Northern Territory Police Association has said that this

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Speaker 1: national issue has been high on the agenda here in

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Speaker 1: the territory, with fifty percent of youths reoffending after being released.

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Speaker 1: Have changes gone too far in terms of protecting the

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Speaker 1: offender rather than the victim?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think if you asked the general public offer,

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Speaker 2: you answer is absolutely. I mean, we know that we

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Speaker 2: don't want youth in custody. We know that we know

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Speaker 2: there's a bigger concern or a bigger issue out there

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Speaker 2: as to why we've got so many youths not in

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Speaker 2: a safe environment, out on the streets at night at all,

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Speaker 2: out of the night, roaming the streets and ultimately committing crime.

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Speaker 2: That is the bigger issue. But of course the actual

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Speaker 2: victim seems to be getting forgotten too much in this

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Speaker 2: discussion when we talk about you know, we're all talking

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Speaker 2: about what we need to do for the offender and

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Speaker 2: making sure they're looked after and they're safe. Yet fifty

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Speaker 2: percent of the time those young offenders have released on

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Speaker 2: these weak bail conditions. You know, another victim is waiting

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Speaker 2: to be broken into, have the car stolen, or be assaulted.

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Speaker 2: That's not good enough.

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Speaker 1: Do you think this idea of a national youth summrs

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Speaker 1: is a good one? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Look, I think obviously we experience youth crime across the

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Speaker 2: country and I think, you know, there's some obviously unique

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Speaker 2: circumstances in our community and obviously in Queensland, Western Australia,

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Speaker 2: all parts of the country, and it will be interesting

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Speaker 2: to get together and around the country and have a

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Speaker 2: look at exactly what laws are in place, put it

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Speaker 2: all on the table, and see what issues are being

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Speaker 2: raised in those jurisdictions, to say, well, maybe this is

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Speaker 2: a bigger national issue than what people think it is.

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Speaker 1: It's obviously something that your counterparts around the nation are

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Speaker 1: dealing with as well. I'm assuming.

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Speaker 2: One of the cow aspects is too often it's always

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Speaker 2: falls under the police shoulders to pick up the pieces

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Speaker 2: of this broken system. And you know that's across the country.

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Speaker 2: And when we talk about the impact and the time

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Speaker 2: that it takes the police to deal with this matter,

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Speaker 2: that is critical time they're not doing other proactive work

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Speaker 2: in our community. And I know that's frustration for our

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Speaker 2: members and I know you know, whilst we have all

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Speaker 2: those further offenses being committed, it's more crime. It's more

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Speaker 2: police hours are being tied up on crimes that might

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Speaker 2: be able to be prevented if we've got better laws

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Speaker 2: in place.

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Speaker 1: Well, Paul MCUE, Police Association President, always appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having a chat with us this morning.

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Speaker 2: Good on you. Thanks Gatie, thank you