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Speaker 1: If you're looking for ways to encourage your kids to

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Speaker 1: learn about saving and smart spending, check out Kit, a

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Speaker 1: pocket money app and card built by Combank. It teaches

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Speaker 1: kids about earning money through chores and saving in buckets

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Speaker 1: or what Kit calls stacks. Kit is free for eligible

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Speaker 1: Combank Yellow customers, t's and C supply, or just fifty

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Speaker 1: dollars a year for up to five children. Download the

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Speaker 1: app or visit haykit dot com dot Au. You can

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Speaker 1: also download Kit's free Pocket Money one oh one guide

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Speaker 1: from the Kit website at haykit dot com dot Au.

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Speaker 1: TMD available on the website. Consider it appropriate for you.

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Speaker 1: Teaching children about money is one of those things that

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Speaker 1: feels tricky. Where do you start? What do you talk about?

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Speaker 1: What if the children ask a question that you don't

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Speaker 1: know the answer to. What if it looks like you

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Speaker 1: might start teaching them things about money that aren't going

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Speaker 1: to be in their best interests.

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Speaker 2: Like the stakes feel high if you get it wrong.

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Speaker 1: Or maybe we're just too neurotic about it, and the

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Speaker 1: psychology of money has gotten into our head so much

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Speaker 1: that we don't know what we're doing and we just

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Speaker 1: need to trust our gut Caulday and welcome to the

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Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast, Real Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's

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Speaker 1: most downloaded parenting podcast. My name is doctor Justin Couson today,

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Speaker 1: I'm joined by Nicole Petterson McKinnon. Nicole's a longtime financial

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Speaker 1: literacy campaigner and educator across newspapers, online, on TV, radio,

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Speaker 1: on stages around Australia. She's had a weekly advice column

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Speaker 1: for twenty years in the Cidney Morning Herald, Age, The

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Speaker 1: Brisbane Times and WA Today twenty years.

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Speaker 2: Nicole gives speeches with her.

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Speaker 1: Lived advice to prosper She regularly MC's events, including multiple

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Speaker 1: Canberra Parliamentary breakfasts for asik or is it is it

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Speaker 1: assic or acik? I say acic and I feel like

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Speaker 1: I'm saying it wrong. What do you think, Nicole?

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Speaker 3: I think it might be ethic, but you know, potato Festado,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't really matter.

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Speaker 4: Everyone gets it.

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Speaker 1: I like the sound of acic better, but for some

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Speaker 1: reason it just comes out wrong every time. And the

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Speaker 1: Australian Government Financial Literacy Board updating members of Parliament in

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Speaker 1: Australa's financial literacy progress. A couple of other things, I mean,

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Speaker 1: such a long and impressive bio. Since twenty fourteen, Nicole's

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Speaker 1: delivered her Smart Money Start incursion in schools, and she

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Speaker 1: was recently the guest judge for the ATOS Tax Super

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Speaker 1: and You High Schools competition. Nicole has won the top

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Speaker 1: Award for Money journalism in the UK and Australia. Is

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Speaker 1: the author of How to Get Mortgage Free Like me.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I need more of you in my

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Speaker 1: life and we haven't even properly met you, Nicole, I

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Speaker 1: would like to be mortgage free like you.

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Speaker 3: Well, full disclosure, I now have a small mortgage because

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Speaker 3: that was my first mortgage that I became mortgage free of.

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Speaker 1: But yes see, that's the thing, isn't it. You get

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Speaker 1: mortgage free, but then you buy a bigger house.

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Speaker 3: Well that's exactly what happens right at the time.

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Speaker 4: But that's the process, and that's a good thing. The

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Speaker 4: more equity, the beout it.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, well, I'd love to talk to you

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Speaker 1: about me and make this a special Justine calls in session.

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Speaker 1: But that's not what everyone is listening for. Everyone's listening

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Speaker 1: because they want to know about how to talk to

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Speaker 1: their kids about money. You've been going in and out

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Speaker 1: of schools talking about this and writing these columns for

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Speaker 1: twenty years. Is just before we get into the nitty

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Speaker 1: gritty of the questions. I'd love to know, how do

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Speaker 1: you become the money expert? How do you become the

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Speaker 1: person who writes about this stuff?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think to this point and to this podcast,

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Speaker 3: I think that I was kind of bred for it,

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Speaker 3: which is.

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Speaker 4: A really weird thing.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not sure that my parents realized they were

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Speaker 3: doing it, but I am. I am the daughter of

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Speaker 3: an English teacher and an accountant, so I kind of

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Speaker 3: think that naturally becomes the financial literacy kind of fare.

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Speaker 3: And what I would say is that in my house

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Speaker 3: growing up, money was on the menu.

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Speaker 4: Like, we talked about money all the time.

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Speaker 3: And what's really interesting is a brand new poll out

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Speaker 3: by a finder that says that forty peopercent of families

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Speaker 3: only speak about money with their children. So I do

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Speaker 3: think it's that awareness, you know, because this help is

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Speaker 3: not rocket science. It's actually not like the fundamental though,

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Speaker 3: is attitude not aptitude. It's great parents can give their

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Speaker 3: kids both, but they've got to start with the attitude.

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Speaker 3: And that's sort of about you know, talking the talk.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is not anywhere that I thought the conversation

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Speaker 1: was going to go. But let's stay on this for

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Speaker 1: a second. I think that is really important attitude towards money.

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Speaker 1: Some people's psychology around money is money in, money out.

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Speaker 1: It's just money. It comes, it goes. Other people have

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Speaker 1: got the attitude, what do you think money grows on trees? Well,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't. Our psychology around money can be kind of

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Speaker 1: messed up, right, it can.

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Speaker 4: Be really messed up.

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Speaker 3: And you know, particularly when we're in an environment where

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Speaker 3: families have been stretched and stressed for at least the

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Speaker 3: past three years. Wow, And we do need to be

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Speaker 3: really careful about you know, there's a lot of talk

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Speaker 3: about eco anxiety now among children. I believe economic anxiety

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Speaker 3: is something that we can pass on to our kids

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Speaker 3: if we sort of convey too much of that the

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Speaker 3: pressure that's around us, and they're not being able to

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Speaker 3: avoid things, et cetera, without the empowerment to go. You

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Speaker 3: know what, kids, We're going to make concrete decisions today.

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Speaker 3: We're going to save money there, we're going to cut

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Speaker 3: back on that here, we're going to target this long

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Speaker 3: term thing, going to really really enjoy and we're all

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Speaker 3: going to get to achieve together, just giving them those

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Speaker 3: little little teeny crumbs of input that makes them feel

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Speaker 3: empowered and in control and set them lot for a

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Speaker 3: better life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is really interesting.

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Speaker 1: As you're saying that, I'm reflecting on one of my

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Speaker 1: mates that I grew up with. His dad was Scottish.

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Speaker 1: Obviously there's a pretty strong stereotype around the Scots and money.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's true, but the stereotypes are there

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Speaker 1: for a reason anyway, the territory. Yeah, so my friend Richard,

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Speaker 1: his dad was Scottish, his mum was English, and they

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Speaker 1: were tight. Like one day they were taken into the

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Speaker 1: bathroom and told how many squares of toilet paper they

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Speaker 1: were allowed to use when they went to the toilet.

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Speaker 1: It was like that super super super tight. But we

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Speaker 1: used to mock our friend Richard because if we were

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Speaker 1: going to buy takeout after we'd been surfing as teenagers,

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Speaker 1: he would choose KFC over Yuck Donald's because the straws

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Speaker 1: were skinnier and therefore the drinks lasted longer.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Well that's amazing, isn't it. And luck we've all

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Speaker 4: got those friends. You know. I've got a friend who

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Speaker 4: at university, lived on Maggie noodles and vitament tablets.

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Speaker 3: Very financially secure right now, because that was okay with her.

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Speaker 3: I'm not, you know, not financial advice. It's also not

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Speaker 3: nutritional advice.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you know.

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Speaker 3: And you know that person who took their own banana

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Speaker 3: and wanted to discount for the banana smoovie, because you know,

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Speaker 3: that's how that's where their mindset was at with money.

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Speaker 3: I am not like, I'm notoriously stingedpied. I'm not that tiped,

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Speaker 3: do you know what I mean? Because I do think

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Speaker 3: the money is for enjoying along the way, and particularly

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Speaker 3: as parents, when we've got these small people, we do

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Speaker 3: want to give them those experiences that they're going to remember.

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Speaker 3: So there is a line where maybe not the counting

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Speaker 3: out the toilet paper. Maybe that's something that's going to

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Speaker 3: stick with you in a negative way through your life perhaps,

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Speaker 3: but you do want to give them that sort of

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Speaker 3: enjoyment without the indulgence and the appreciation where the money

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Speaker 3: is coming from and where it's going, what it's getting you.

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Speaker 1: So you go into schools and give talks. Let me

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Speaker 1: make a provocative statement to you. The stuff that you

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Speaker 1: share with kids in schools is probably going to have

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Speaker 1: a fairly small impact on the way they approach money

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Speaker 1: in comparison to what they're learning day in day out,

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Speaker 1: breathing in in the environment. With what their parents are

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Speaker 1: saying about money fair one.

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Speaker 3: Hundred percent accurate. And I mean, you know, I do

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Speaker 3: what I can, and what I do in schools is

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Speaker 3: more at that very last, you know, exit from the

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Speaker 3: school gate. Hey, guys, be really careful. I do a

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Speaker 3: lot of he's what you haven't learned in school. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's an incursion right at the very end. The sort

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Speaker 3: of exams are done and dastard and it's like you're

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Speaker 3: going to have a credit score US style very very soon.

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Speaker 3: You need to protect that with your life, because your

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Speaker 3: life really does you know, really affects your life. You

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Speaker 3: need to be really careful about debt. You need to

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Speaker 3: be really careful about putting your name on leases and

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Speaker 3: about the liability of that. You are going to get

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Speaker 3: targeted by funky fintech companies because that's your generation who

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Speaker 3: are going to want to clip your ticket. They're going

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Speaker 3: to offer you all this liberation of spending, all these

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Speaker 3: ways that we didn't have of getting money that we

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Speaker 3: haven't earned.

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Speaker 4: Right there.

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Speaker 3: Used to be one needs to be bank guard introduced

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Speaker 3: in the nineteen eighties. Now there's about twenty different ways.

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Speaker 4: Of getting it.

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Speaker 3: So I think it kids, you just got to be

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Speaker 3: really aware that all this kind of free money is

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Speaker 3: not free at all. And the impact of interest rates

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Speaker 3: that's another one, but just really really key to your

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Speaker 3: future life. You know, you pay too much on your

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Speaker 3: mortgage and you go way backwards.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about kids from let's say eight and up,

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Speaker 1: maybe ten and up somewhere around there. Okay, so they're

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Speaker 1: old enough now that they're earning some pocket money, they've

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Speaker 1: got access to perhaps their parents' credit card when they

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Speaker 1: jump online and they're playing Roblocks or something like that

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Speaker 1: and Fortnite, or they've got a part time job perhaps

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Speaker 1: and they're starting to earn money.

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Speaker 2: What are the biggest.

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Speaker 1: Money traps that parents don't usually talk to their kids about,

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Speaker 1: but the kids definitely get caught up in.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 3: I think what it is is not getting that broader

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Speaker 3: picture of what money can do for you. I think

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Speaker 3: that's the key thing that parents need to pass on

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Speaker 3: very quotely entwined with that is the idea about being

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Speaker 3: able to delay gratification. That's a really key lenny, and

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Speaker 3: every parent knows that, you know, as beings, we arrive

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Speaker 3: hardwired at some level of being able to delay gratification,

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Speaker 3: either wear a consumer or wear a delayer, and that's

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Speaker 3: kind of been built to us with us. And it's

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Speaker 3: a parent's responsibility to kind of show their children just

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Speaker 3: what they can achieve if they just delay that. Food

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Speaker 3: is the fantastic proxy for money in small children. So

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Speaker 3: you can kind of start getting these attitudes across to

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Speaker 3: your children very very early, and you know, talk about

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Speaker 3: the concept of future. You may you eat that all

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Speaker 3: that chocolate bar right now, you're going to be super

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Speaker 3: sad this afternoon.

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Speaker 4: Won there's a chocolate bar left.

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Speaker 3: If you have half a hour and half later, imagine

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Speaker 3: you'll be double happy. And you know that idea of

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Speaker 3: you know, justin knows that I'm a bit of deputy

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Speaker 3: of chocolate. So I actually hearing these tools to get

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Speaker 3: across these messages is really really great.

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Speaker 4: And then it's about the goal targeting.

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Speaker 3: You know, no matter what the money is, if you

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Speaker 3: grow as the kids have ten, what are they going

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Speaker 3: to do with it? What is the magic money slit

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Speaker 3: that means that they're going to enjoy it as much

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Speaker 3: as possible, rather than just fresher it and have it disappear.

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Speaker 1: We've always done this thing with our kids, where we've

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Speaker 1: had them set a goal. They look at how much

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Speaker 1: income they have. I mean, when they're getting pocket money,

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Speaker 1: it's very very clear. But even once they get their

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Speaker 1: part time jobs, they've got a pretty decent sense of

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Speaker 1: how much money they're going to earn on a week

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Speaker 1: tweek basis. And we'll set like a three month or

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Speaker 1: a six month or even a twelve month goal with them,

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Speaker 1: what are you working towards? How much you think you

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Speaker 1: can put away? And they'll give us that number, and

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Speaker 1: then we'll say, all right, what would a stretch goal

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Speaker 1: look like? And so they might add an extra hundred

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Speaker 1: bucks or an extra five hundred bucks, again depending on

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Speaker 1: their age and what their income is. And then we'll

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Speaker 1: say to them, here's the thing. If you hit that

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Speaker 1: stretch goal, we'll bonus you by this amount. Sometimes we'll

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Speaker 1: match it, other times we'll give them a percentage of

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Speaker 1: it. It just depends on how big that goal is. Now

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Speaker 1: we're going ourselves, but the idea there is to teach

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Speaker 1: them that if they can delay that gratification for the

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Speaker 1: three months or the six months, if they can think

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Speaker 1: about future to me rather than present me, that the

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Speaker 1: benefit to them down the track is going to be

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Speaker 1: a really significant payoff. What's your take on that? And

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Speaker 1: do you have any other strategies that can help to

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Speaker 1: teach these principles.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, I love the idea of the stretch goal.

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Speaker 3: I think that's really good branding. It's all about the

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Speaker 3: brandings of kids, all about the gearick and like the

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Speaker 3: cut through to to make that really land. A love

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Speaker 3: idea with stretch goal. So what you're embodying there is

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Speaker 3: this thing of pain in the game. So as humans, adults, children, whatever,

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Speaker 3: we know that something that's given to us is just

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Speaker 3: not appreciated as much as something that we strive for

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Speaker 3: and earn, write anything, right, you know, bars goods, whatever.

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Speaker 3: So the idea of pain in the game and a

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Speaker 3: stretch goal of hey is my fifty percent here?

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Speaker 4: Is your fifty percent here?

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Speaker 3: And that being expandable based on incentivizing spending up and

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Speaker 3: up and up is a really great mechanism of again

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Speaker 3: and powering children to show them that they can make

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Speaker 3: a real, real difference.

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Speaker 4: One of the things that I do.

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Speaker 3: Is, you know, I tell to you a little bit

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Speaker 3: about interest and the implication of that. A lot of

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Speaker 3: the kids that I talk to in schools, you know,

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Speaker 3: these sort of seventeen eighteen year old, you know, adults,

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Speaker 3: they feel really disempowered. They feel like property prices are

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Speaker 3: out of their reach. They feel like they're going to

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Speaker 3: give up before they try, because you know, the economy

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Speaker 3: is such that they're not going to succeed anyway, which

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Speaker 3: is a really super dangerous set. And so I say

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Speaker 3: to them, you know what the thing is that you

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Speaker 3: have an asset that is so powerful on your side

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Speaker 3: that your parents don't have, that no other adult has.

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Speaker 3: And of course that act is time, right, So the

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Speaker 3: earlier you start saving and investing, the cheaper and easier

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Speaker 3: it is, the more powerful that is.

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Speaker 4: And the time to start is today.

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Speaker 3: So I just give them a really straight up example,

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Speaker 3: which I you know, I would tremend to parents. If

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Speaker 3: you start saving six dollars a day from the day

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Speaker 3: you finish school, and you get an eight percent investment

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Speaker 3: return under standard, you know, over the long term you'll

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Speaker 3: be a millionaire by sixty to six bucks a day.

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Speaker 3: You wait till fifty you're going to have to save.

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Speaker 3: With apologies to everyone at the other end of this scale,

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Speaker 3: one hundred and seventy nine dollars a day. Wow, So

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Speaker 3: that you speaks to the amazing impact that time has

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Speaker 3: and the earlier they start, the cheaper. It is like

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Speaker 3: we're talking micro savings that can make an absolute maximum difference.

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Speaker 3: And if you put numbers on it like that. Here's

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Speaker 3: another one for parents. Right of that million dollars, a

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Speaker 3: child who starts saving the minute they leave school gets

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Speaker 3: nine hundred thousand dollars for free. They only save one

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Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars of it themselves, and that's where that

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Speaker 3: magical compound interest comes in. That's the beautiful thing about it.

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Speaker 3: Whereabout a literally poor fifty year old has had to

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Speaker 3: save six hundred and fifty thousand bucks or thereabouts themselves.

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Speaker 3: So you know, it's really incredible. If we can just

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Speaker 3: incentivize our children and stretch them by matching to show

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Speaker 3: them just how far they could go with whatever money

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Speaker 3: and limited resources they have, then that's future changing.

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Speaker 4: It really is.

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Speaker 2: It's to get rich slow strategy.

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Speaker 4: Line, and they can do it because they've got the

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Speaker 4: time to do it.

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Speaker 1: I turned fifty this year and I'm currently me too,

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Speaker 1: trying to work out how I'm going to put away

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Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty dollars a day for the next

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Speaker 1: ten years. I know, I know, it's the kind of

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Speaker 1: is now you mention it right, kids, It'll be fine.

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Speaker 1: I did go and have six children, which certainly made

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Speaker 1: it hard to put.

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Speaker 2: Them anyway well to look after you. Just hopefully they'll

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Speaker 2: be able to do that.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for the yeah, the good news. It can be

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Speaker 1: helpful for kids to learn the basics of how finances work,

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Speaker 1: especially in this digital age of invisible money. Kit is

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Speaker 1: a pocket money app and card built by Combank. It

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Speaker 1: helps kids learn about money through earning, saving, and spending

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Speaker 1: pocket money, as well as by playing fun games and quizzes.

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Speaker 2: Kit is free for.

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Speaker 1: Eligible Combank Yellow customers, t's and c supply, or just

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Speaker 1: fifty dollars a year for up to five children. Download

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Speaker 1: the app or visit haykit dot com dot Au. You

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Speaker 1: can also download kits free pocket Money one O one

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Speaker 1: guide from the kit website at Heykit dot com dot

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Speaker 1: Au TMD available on the website. Consider it appropriate for you, Nicole,

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you a couple other questions as

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Speaker 1: a parent who sometimes feels a little bit lost when

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Speaker 1: it comes to financial conversations and so many parents do

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Speaker 1: are any Are there any tools that you think are

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Speaker 1: really useful that are available online to help them, maybe

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Speaker 1: even yours? And for what it's worth, this is not

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Speaker 1: a setup question, like I'm asking out of genuine interest.

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Speaker 1: I don't know where you're going to go with this,

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Speaker 1: so I just want to be really clear about that.

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Speaker 1: We haven't planned this ahead of time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and look, don't feel like you're alone. You know.

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Speaker 3: They're studied by the Extra Foundation, which does not for

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Speaker 3: profit financial literacy in schools, which involves the amazing Paul Clitho,

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Speaker 3: who was involved in the governmental financial literacy push as well.

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Speaker 3: A recent study of THEIRS shows that all parents understand

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Speaker 3: that money smarts is a really important lesson for their kids.

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Speaker 3: Twenty four percent of them feel like they don't have

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Speaker 3: the head around it themselves, you know, might one in

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Speaker 3: five don't know where to start teaching kids about money.

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Speaker 4: So it's a really really common thing.

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Speaker 3: So in terms of tools to help, there's actually a

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Speaker 3: lot out there for parents. So in terms of skilling

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Speaker 3: up yourself, take take a look at the moneysmart dot

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Speaker 3: gov dot AU website. Lots of really small, targeted, factually

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Speaker 3: correct information on there to just lift your own aptitude

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Speaker 3: just that little bit. And then there's a couple of

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Speaker 3: great pocket money apps that are available in Australia, which

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Speaker 3: I like, we have migrated between a few. You know,

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Speaker 3: money is earned, not bestowed. I believe that kids need

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Speaker 3: to work for their pocket money. I think that's really important,

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Speaker 3: and these apps let you kind of set those criteria

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Speaker 3: for your kids and tick them off and then show

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Speaker 3: them when and why they're getting their money delivered. And

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Speaker 3: they have kidtastic celebrations around the fact that go, you

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Speaker 3: look what you've achieved. You've done this yourself, and now

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Speaker 3: how are you going to split this money to make

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Speaker 3: it maximum enjoyment from you to reap the rewards of

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Speaker 3: what you do. So the couple here there's Spriggy, which

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Speaker 3: is good. It's got some really great interfacing features for

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Speaker 3: children to give them that goal targeting which is just

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Speaker 3: so important. No interest earned on that one, which is

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Speaker 3: a problem. Then you've got kit which is backed by

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Speaker 3: the Commonwealth Bank. Now let me just stay upfront that

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Speaker 3: I was a very vocal critic of the previous Commonwealth

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Speaker 3: Bank you know, school banking, et cetera, which.

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Speaker 4: Was banned several years ago. Now this new iteration is

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Speaker 4: very good.

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Speaker 3: So it does the kid tactic celebrations, It split the

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Speaker 3: money automatically into the goals, and then it's got a

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Speaker 3: bank account hooked to it where the money goes directly

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Speaker 3: in and earns interest for your children. So rather than

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Speaker 3: kind of paying for the app and paying to let

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Speaker 3: someone keep your money, which is sort of a bad

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Speaker 3: adult lesson, you actually earn the interest straight away. And

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of merits to that particular app. I'm

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Speaker 3: just migrating my kids to that one. And the other

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Speaker 3: thing is just you know, his bank accounts is a

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Speaker 3: really big deal for a lot of institutions, and just

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Speaker 3: quietly that's because they're a great customer acquisition final That's

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Speaker 3: why I think they had been so big in this

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Speaker 3: state for such a long time.

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Speaker 1: I've got to just say, like we've received some pushback

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Speaker 1: because we've had some CBA advertising, and I get it,

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Speaker 1: like everyone's going to have to have a bank account, right,

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Speaker 1: so it's in every financial institution's best interest to do

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Speaker 1: what they can to acquire people to do their banking.

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Speaker 1: So I just have to push back against the people

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Speaker 1: that are saying, well, that's not okay, because hello, it's

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Speaker 1: like where.

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Speaker 2: You're going to put your money, you need to have

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Speaker 2: an account anyway.

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Speaker 4: Go on, you do need to have a bank account.

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Speaker 3: And again that comes back to my point about you know,

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Speaker 3: parents teaching your children the importance of interest, because you

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Speaker 3: want to be saving into a bank account that has

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Speaker 3: the very highest amount of interest, that.

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Speaker 2: Might not be able take as much money as you

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Speaker 2: can from the banks.

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Speaker 3: Is what is yeah, one d per like why would

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Speaker 3: you donate it to them? Do you mean like they're

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00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,359
Speaker 3: just like us paying too much on our mortgage? Why

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Speaker 3: would we be giving an institution money? And you know,

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Speaker 3: again another message of parents can get across on this

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Speaker 3: one is that no two banks has the best of

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Speaker 3: two products in my experience ever, So you know, tell

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Speaker 3: your kids you should have probably a different bank for

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Speaker 3: your savings account, a different bank for a credit card

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Speaker 3: if you want to get one, a different bank for

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Speaker 3: your mortgage. The one institution is not going to take

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Speaker 3: all of your boxes. So that's a really another important

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Speaker 3: thing to get across. But here there are a lot

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Speaker 3: of amazing tools, and there is a lot of resources

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Speaker 3: being spent by a lot of banks that really bring

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Speaker 3: their kids savings accoun to life and principle among them

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Speaker 3: is that goal targeting, which is really life changing.

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Speaker 4: For a chile.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Love that.

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Speaker 1: The only tool that I've been looking at financially is

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Speaker 1: superannuation calculators lately. But again that's it fifty thing. It's

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Speaker 1: a different podcast and different conversation. All right, let's wrap

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Speaker 1: this up, Nicole. I've really enjoyed chatting with you and

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Speaker 1: this has been quite insightful and a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: One last question for you. If you were just to

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Speaker 1: give one piece of advice for parents to make financial

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Speaker 1: lessons stick, what would your most valuable idea be for

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Speaker 1: parents to go, Okay, yeah, I need to have the

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00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:38,920
Speaker 1: financial chat with my kids and this is the thing

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00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,359
Speaker 1: that I need to say. Would it be don't sign

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00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,600
Speaker 1: up for months to month plans? Would it be stay

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00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 1: away from Netflix and the gaming apps and gambling?

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00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:48,480
Speaker 2: Where would you go? What would you say?

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00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 3: I'd say the key thing is for parents to talk

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00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,359
Speaker 3: the talk, right. So the difficulty in you know, you

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00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 3: have the chats, you have chats with kids, you can

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00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,400
Speaker 3: have them about the money. You can have the theoretical

448
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 3: aspect to it. They're less likely to land than watching

449
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 3: you every single time you transact, especially digitally, right going

450
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,159
Speaker 3: hey kids, I know you know the tap trap. I

451
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 3: know I'm tapping this card, but that's because the money

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00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 3: is coming out, the money is actually in there, and

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00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,160
Speaker 3: I'm spending money I already have and I've been careful

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00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 3: about how I've spent that money. I've spent the less

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00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 3: the leaks I can possibly do. I've bought something that

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00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 3: I wanted to buy in the first place. I haven't

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00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 3: given into impulse, and I'm responsibly spending.

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00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,200
Speaker 4: I think if they if.

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00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,359
Speaker 3: They see you doing that, if you model being that

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00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,200
Speaker 3: model money citizen, then that's going to get that biggest

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00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,080
Speaker 3: cut through. You know, you've started off saying, you know

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00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 3: what difference am I really going to make? Going to

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00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 3: schools and having that one talk with kids Equally, you know,

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00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:52,879
Speaker 3: a couple of talks from parents may not have the

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00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 3: same power and impact as watching you do the right

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00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,440
Speaker 3: thing and say the right words, even if just quietly

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00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 3: the money is not there and you're spending on credit

468
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 3: or whatever.

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00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 4: Just talk about the fact that you've earned it.

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00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 3: You've carefully allocated it and you're going to use it

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00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 3: for the maximum enjoyment for you and your family. And

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00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,199
Speaker 3: that could be a long term thing that might not

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00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 3: be today, that might be in a year's time when

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00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 3: you're going to take a holiday, or in five years

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00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 3: time where you're going to stretch stay with them so

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00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 3: that they can buy their first card.

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00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,439
Speaker 1: Love that you've just talked about the tap trap, and

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00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,120
Speaker 1: you remind me of something that I would really love

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00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,159
Speaker 1: to know. This is a quick fact check question. I

480
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 1: read recently that inserting your card means that you generally

481
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 1: don't pay fees, whereas tapping you do pay fees.

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00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:37,120
Speaker 2: Is that right?

483
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 3: That can be true, yes, because that can swing it

484
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,719
Speaker 3: to the savings part of your card rather than the

485
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,199
Speaker 3: debit or credit part of your card. So yes, it

486
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 3: can be true, depending on the institution and depending on

487
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 3: the merchant. O.

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00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 1: All right, so again, just one of those things to

489
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: teach the kids. It's better to wat to it.

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00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's it.

491
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,919
Speaker 3: And legally, if you can't pay by cash, then emerging

492
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 3: is not supposed to be able to charge you that

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00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 3: explicit fee. They've got to wear that themselves. So and look,

494
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:08,919
Speaker 3: cash is another thing we should probably quickly touch on.

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00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 3: I love the use of cash for kids. It's just

496
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 3: really good to bring that sailings to something that is disappearing,

497
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 3: really really quickly. Because the lesson to get at Christ

498
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,120
Speaker 3: is it just because you can't see something, it still

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00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:21,200
Speaker 3: runs out.

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00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 4: That's really really key, so valuable.

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00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 2: Such a great conversation.

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00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 1: Nicole Peterson McKinnon is a long time financial literacy campaigner

503
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: and educator the in schools, in the media and even

504
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 1: with Parliament. Great to chat with you, and thanks for

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00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 1: giving up some time to help us be more financially literate. Nicole.

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00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 4: Lovely to chat with you. Justin.

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00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:42,959
Speaker 3: I'm going to take my kids dropping and I'm going

508
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 3: to walk my talk.

509
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: Have fun, don't buy too much, set a budget, be careful,

510
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 1: use cash, don't tap good fun.

511
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:51,360
Speaker 2: Thanks so much.

512
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Roland for

513
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,719
Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Mem Hammonds provides research and additional admin support.

514
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: If you'd like more information about making your family happy,

515
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: check out the show notes for more info and visit

516
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:03,360
Speaker 1: Happy Families dot com.

517
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 3: A you.

518
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 1: Kit is a pocket money app and card built by Combank.

519
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: Kit helps kids learn all about money from earning, saving

520
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521
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522
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523
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