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Speaker 1: Now, as we've been discussing over the last couple of days,

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Speaker 1: we know there were thirty two recommendations handed down as

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Speaker 1: part of the summary of the coroner's twelve chapter, six

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Speaker 1: hundred page findings into the death of komen Ji Walker.

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Armitage recommending the Northern Territory government implement mandatory drug

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Speaker 1: and alcohol testing for police after critical incidents to bring

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory in line with other jurisdictions. She also

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Speaker 1: recommended for the Northern Territory Police well policies for officers

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Speaker 1: to carry AR fifteen semi automatic assault rifles, strengthening their

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Speaker 1: anti racism strategy, tailored cultural training, the development of a

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Speaker 1: debrief and welfare policy for deaths in custody, and all

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Speaker 1: members to do remote postings of four months in their

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Speaker 1: first three years of employment with the force. Now, the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory's Police Acting Commissioner Martin Dole is going to

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Speaker 1: join us on the show a little bit after ten

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Speaker 1: o'clock this morning, so we'll talk in a bit more

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Speaker 1: detail about it with him as well. But me in

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Speaker 1: the studio right now is the president of the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory Police Association, Nathan finn Good morning to.

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Speaker 2: You, Good morning Katy, and good morning to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now, Finny, what was your reaction to the findings the direction?

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Speaker 2: It's been a long awaited The findings have been a

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Speaker 2: long waited event coming out. Our members are still frustrated,

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Speaker 2: our members that have been tainted by a brush that

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Speaker 2: we're all racist and we've got a racist police force.

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Speaker 2: Before we go into that, I'd just like to acknowledge,

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Speaker 2: obviously the findings that have been handed down and obviously

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Speaker 2: the severe impact that's had not only on the family

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Speaker 2: of mister Walker, but also a police force and our members.

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Speaker 2: The effect that's had has been insurmountable on some of

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Speaker 2: these members that they can't continue policing because of it.

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Speaker 2: We've seen this, We've seen the conjecture that's been had

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Speaker 2: in relation to this. All I can say is that

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Speaker 2: we haven't got a racist police force. We have a

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Speaker 2: police force that has pockets of this, and we acknowledge that,

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Speaker 2: and we acknowledge that and the evidence that's been presented.

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Speaker 2: But we want to make sure that we have a

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Speaker 2: police force that's professional, respected and make sure they're supported

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Speaker 2: going forward.

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Speaker 1: So Finny yours that after those findings and the recommendations

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Speaker 1: were handed down earlier in the week that you've got

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Speaker 1: some officers saying they don't feel they can continue to

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Speaker 1: police in the end.

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Speaker 2: T that's correct, Katie, and the comments that have been

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Speaker 2: made are unfairly commented on some of the members and

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Speaker 2: the members that have gone past. We've gone above and

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Speaker 2: beyond in policing in the Northern Territory and the majority

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Speaker 2: of our members do the right thing. Unfortunately, we've seen

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Speaker 2: this and the evidence being presented is indicated there are

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Speaker 2: some members that don't do the wrong thing and they

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Speaker 2: need to be dealt with and they should have been

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Speaker 2: dealt with at the time.

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Speaker 1: So do you feel as though everybody has been sort

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Speaker 1: of painted in the same way when that is not

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Speaker 1: the case.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, And that has an effect, and that has

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Speaker 2: an effect on morale caati. There's an effect on their

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Speaker 2: reasoning to continue the police and put their life on

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Speaker 2: the line and the sacrifices they make to protect the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory community. We're incredibly proud of the men and

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Speaker 2: women of the Northern Territory Police Force who show up

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Speaker 2: every day in some of the toughest and most conference

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Speaker 2: conditions in the country. Katie, their professional and courage commitment

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Speaker 2: to community safety deserve recognition and ongoing support. We work

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Speaker 2: in some of the most challenging vironments within Australia. We

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Speaker 2: see that the disadvantage that we see right across the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory. We're the ones that they call for protection

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Speaker 2: and we want to make sure we're the best place

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Speaker 2: to have that protection and make sure we're resourced appropriate to.

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Speaker 1: Do that well. And as such, you have actually issued

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Speaker 1: a statement saying that, as you've just touched on, police

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Speaker 1: obviously are exposed to trauma and harm and it does

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Speaker 1: take a toll. But you have said to ensure that

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Speaker 1: a high standard of policing is upheld, that the police

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Speaker 1: force needs to implement some changes. What changes do you

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Speaker 1: think that need to be sort of implemented.

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Speaker 2: We need to proactively support our officers. It all takes

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Speaker 2: a toll in your Katie, including through regular rotation out

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Speaker 2: of high stress roles, identifying all risk of members, provide

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Speaker 2: early intervention counseling, fatigue management. Fatigue management is one of

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Speaker 2: the biggest things we see with our members. They are

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Speaker 2: currently being burnt out at an alarming rate, Katie, because

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Speaker 2: of the resourcing issues we've seen over a number and

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Speaker 2: number of years and support services for these members as

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Speaker 2: well when they do identify that they have been broken

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Speaker 2: by what's being going on.

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Speaker 1: Finny, there is no doubt that the Northern Territory Police face,

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Speaker 1: you know, issues that I think people in other states

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Speaker 1: probably can't even put their heads around in a couple,

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Speaker 1: you know, like in quite a few different ways. There's

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Speaker 1: there's a lot that we speak about every day on

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Speaker 1: this show, and I think that you you know that

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Speaker 1: the large majority of Territorians feel as though police do

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Speaker 1: a really good job under very difficult circumstances. But I

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Speaker 1: do know that the coroner has said that she does

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Speaker 1: believe that there is racism within the Alice Springs Police station.

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Speaker 1: She's obviously pointed to, you know, to issues of racism.

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Speaker 1: What do you say to those out there listening that

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Speaker 1: think that the Northern Territory Police Force is racist?

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Speaker 2: Again, Katie, and we see this, the evidence have been presented.

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Speaker 2: We can't deny what the evidence have been presented. And

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Speaker 2: we understand that that is the view of the coroner,

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Speaker 2: that is the view that what's going on, and we

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Speaker 2: see that as well. We're not saying it doesn't doesn't occur,

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Speaker 2: and it probably doesn't occur in every workplace within Australia.

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Speaker 2: We see the Northern Territory Police Force dealing with Indigenous

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Speaker 2: community ninety percent of the time. In relation to all

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Speaker 2: our work we do in the Northern Territory, Unfortunately, we're

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Speaker 2: going to have pockets no matter what we do. In

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Speaker 2: relation to how we react, we need to make sure

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Speaker 2: there's clear policies and guidelines about how we investigate these

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Speaker 2: matters and how people are brought to the attention, make

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Speaker 2: sure they're responsible for what they're doing and what they're saying.

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Speaker 1: I know that the Acting Police Commissioner has announced that

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Speaker 1: there's obviously the anti Racism strategy, the ongoing delivery of

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Speaker 1: cultural awareness and anti racism training. They're just a couple

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Speaker 1: of the measures, as well as the creation of Cultural

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Speaker 1: Reform Command. Do you think that they are good moves?

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Speaker 2: Again, we have to see the details in relation to

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Speaker 2: what's going to occur here. We're happy to work with

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Speaker 2: the Northern Territory Police Force in developing any policies and

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Speaker 2: procedures and any discipute processes that we work through, and

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Speaker 2: we need to make sure that we're fully comprehended and

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Speaker 2: make sure we're up to speed and briefed in relation

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Speaker 2: to what they're planning.

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Speaker 1: Finny. I also know that there's been some you know,

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Speaker 1: there's been some recommendations in terms of one calling on

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Government to introduce amendments to the Police

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Speaker 1: Administration Regulations implementing mandatory drug and alcohol testing of a

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Speaker 1: police member after a critical incident, similar to what other

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Speaker 1: jurisdictions have in Australia. Is that something that you guys

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Speaker 1: would support.

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Speaker 2: That's something we've been discussing for a number of years, Katie,

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Speaker 2: and we've been working through and I've even asked as

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Speaker 2: of probably about six weeks ago, where that's at, where

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Speaker 2: the policy is at. It was initially supported by the

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Speaker 2: Norn Territory Police Association some years ago, and I know

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Speaker 2: this was going to be a topic that comes out

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Speaker 2: of this coronial and to make sure above it, ahead

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Speaker 2: of it, to make sure that the police force is

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Speaker 2: actively looking at.

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Speaker 1: This well one of the I mean so by the

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Speaker 1: sounds of it, it's something that has I mean, I

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Speaker 1: believe you and I have actually spoken about this over

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Speaker 1: the years as well. We haven't indeed, and if not you,

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Speaker 1: I reckon even your predecessor. We've spoken about, you know,

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Speaker 1: the about that sort of drug and alcohol testing. It

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Speaker 1: seems to me like it'd be something that's like it

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Speaker 1: happens if you work out on a mind site and

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Speaker 1: you're driving trucks. You know, it's a fairly reasonable thing

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Speaker 1: across different industries, and again.

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Speaker 2: It's something that public should expect as well of our

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Speaker 2: police officer make sure they're not affected by drugs or

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Speaker 2: alcohol when they're working. It's not unreasonable to have this request.

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Speaker 2: I've made requests through the Northern Churchy Police Force Executive

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Speaker 2: since my time of coming to an Churchy Police Asociation

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Speaker 2: a couple of years ago to progress this. It hasn't

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Speaker 2: been progressed to date. We'll see how quickly it gets

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Speaker 2: progressed now Katie is a part of the recommendation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll wait and see now that I know that.

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Speaker 1: The coroner also noted that the Northern Territory Police Force

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Speaker 1: had recently introduced early intervention policy to identify members whose

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Speaker 1: performance well being all behavior is problematic or raises red flags,

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Speaker 1: and which provides for early intervention conversations and other assistance measures.

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Speaker 1: Is that something that the Association.

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Speaker 2: Supports, Yeah, definitely, and that's something we've worked with the

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Speaker 2: Northern Churchy Police Force too, obviously propose and put out

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Speaker 2: to our membership to make sure that anything's identified at

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Speaker 2: the earliest possible opportunity, so it can be done with

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Speaker 2: an corrective behavior attitude and not to have a disappe

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Speaker 2: outcome attached to that, and to make sure that members

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Speaker 2: behaviors and sort of workplace habits are rectified at the

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Speaker 2: earliest possible opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Finni. One of the other recommendations is that the police

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Speaker 1: establish a policy with James to ensure that members achieve

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Speaker 1: a minimum of four months continuous remote posting in their

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Speaker 1: first three years. Is that something that you support because

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Speaker 1: I thought we used to do that and then we

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Speaker 1: sort of pulled away from it.

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Speaker 2: Away from the Previus Commission to actually drew that from that. It

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Speaker 2: was part of their contracts for any person signing up

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Speaker 2: for the Northern Churchy Police Force they had to do

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Speaker 2: a minimum time of remote service in their first five

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Speaker 2: or six years. We've seen that gone away from now.

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Speaker 2: The recommendation for the current needs to be obviously looked at.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of issues in respect to members all

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Speaker 2: serving remote in their first three years. We simply don't

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Speaker 2: have the resource ands don't have the housing available to

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Speaker 2: resource our communities appropriately at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Well, the other part of it is well, and the

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Speaker 1: other part of it is that you're potentially sending up

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Speaker 1: people that are quite inexperienced into remote locations, and as

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Speaker 1: you and I have discussed on previous occasions, sometime you

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Speaker 1: know there might be one of the more two of

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Speaker 1: them out there.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of complexities when you do work remote,

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Speaker 2: and having work remote myself early in my career, it

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Speaker 2: was a very challenging time, Katie, where you left your

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Speaker 2: own devices, where there's not much support offered and you

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Speaker 2: have to think very quickly on your feet in volatile situations.

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Speaker 2: We see the violence that's paid towards our members that

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Speaker 2: doesn't occur justs in Darwin and what's reported in Alice

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Speaker 2: Springs that refers into our communities each and every day, Catie,

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Speaker 2: our members are placed at severe danger. Their members need

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Speaker 2: to be well equipped to deal with that.

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Speaker 1: Finny, what do you make of the recommendations around firearms

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Speaker 1: in communities? I mean, would you say that police officers

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Speaker 1: need to have firearms in communities.

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Speaker 2: We need every protection we can cody and for an

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Speaker 2: operational decision and for recommendations to make that recommendation, we

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Speaker 2: don't support that. We need to make sure that our

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Speaker 2: members are supported and need to have the appropriate tools

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Speaker 2: and available resource to deal with whatever they need to

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Speaker 2: present it with.

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Speaker 1: The Northern Territory's Aboriginal legal led servers say that the

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Speaker 1: Coroner's not gone far enough in her recommendations. Naja reckon

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Speaker 1: that they're disappointed that the coroner has not recommended an

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Speaker 1: independent oversight body to police the Northern Territory Police Force

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Speaker 1: and drive structural change in the force. Do you think

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Speaker 1: we need an independent to oversight body?

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Speaker 2: How many oversized body do we need? Katie, And that's

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Speaker 2: Narge's comments and Narjas has their comments. They're entitled to

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Speaker 2: their owner comments. But again, we've got nomine an office

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Speaker 2: that overviews our Professional Standards Command and also have an

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Speaker 2: EYECAC as well. How many levels of governance do we need?

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Speaker 2: If there's an identified issue that needs to be dealt with,

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Speaker 2: that should be dealt with in isolation, not putting another

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Speaker 2: level of governance out of the Northern Territory Police.

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Speaker 1: For Finny, we're too from here from the association's perspective,

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Speaker 1: because I mean, you and I have spoken on so

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Speaker 1: many occasions about the issues of crime that we've got

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Speaker 1: in the Northern Territory. We know that we have issues

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Speaker 1: within remote communities when it comes to crime, but we

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Speaker 1: also have issues in terms of not having the volume

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Speaker 1: of police that we might want to have in those

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Speaker 1: remote communities as well as adequate housing. But then on

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Speaker 1: the you know, on the other side of this, obviously,

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Speaker 1: we have got a situation where the coroner is saying

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Speaker 1: that she believes that in some locations racist behavior has

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Speaker 1: been allowed to sort of to fester, I guess for

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Speaker 1: want of a better word. But then you've got so

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Speaker 1: many hard working Northern Territory police officers who go every

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Speaker 1: single day in front up you know, when when when

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Speaker 1: things are really really bad, Like, how do we bridge

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Speaker 1: all of this from this point on and how do

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Speaker 1: we all move forward as a community. Whether you're black, white,

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Speaker 1: or brindle.

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Speaker 2: We need to acknowledge that the incident has had a

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Speaker 2: preferreand effect on not only to the public but also

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Speaker 2: the police force. The morale has been the lowest we've

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Speaker 2: ever seen. We seen a nutrition rate that went through

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Speaker 2: the roof over this period because of the precious being

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Speaker 2: placed on police. No police member wants to go to

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Speaker 2: work and take someone's life. I can guarantee you that, Katie,

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Speaker 2: and I can guarantee that there's no police force or

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Speaker 2: police member that wants to work in a racist police organization.

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Speaker 2: We stand with our police and stand with the good

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Speaker 2: ones that are out there doing the best possible job

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Speaker 2: that they can do under the circumstances they're currently seeing.

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Speaker 2: As I said, office we're exposed to repeat to Truman conflict.

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Speaker 2: This takes a toll, Katie, that leading to empathy, fatigue,

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Speaker 2: we have burnout, we have some case psychological injury because

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Speaker 2: of the pressures that our members face. Majority of them

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Speaker 2: are there to do the right thing and to do

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Speaker 2: the best possible job they canal at the community.

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Speaker 1: It's really not lost on me either that you know

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Speaker 1: there has there and rightly so. There's been a lot

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Speaker 1: of coverage of this coronial inquest over the years and

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Speaker 1: this situation over the years, and rightly so. But there's

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Speaker 1: also a coronial inquest which is still to see those

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Speaker 1: findings handed down, and that is into the the suicide

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Speaker 1: of Michael doutrom Mickey de and you know, to me,

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Speaker 1: I think that we've got some really broad issues here

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Speaker 1: and we need to look at this whole situation as

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Speaker 1: the coroner has done from a really broad ranging, you know,

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Speaker 1: a really broad ranging way, and also understand that the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police do a bloody tough job and it

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Speaker 1: does have a personal toll.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, And we've seen this and the current as mentioned,

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Speaker 2: the coronial investigation currently going on. That's a personal point

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Speaker 2: for me and the personal point for the association as

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Speaker 2: we go through this looking at the dangers that our

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Speaker 2: members face and the current fatigue levels that we're seeing

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Speaker 2: in our remote PlayStations without the need or any ability

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Speaker 2: to have respite, with no additional housing, stations that can't

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Speaker 2: cope with the members we've got out there, the constant

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Speaker 2: calls for police and the constant raising of those calls

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Speaker 2: for police. We deal with domestic violence, We teal entrenched

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Speaker 2: disadvantage every day, and we're the ones that have to

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Speaker 2: respond to that because we're majority of our communities. We're

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Speaker 2: the only ones that have a twenty four hour, seven

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Speaker 2: day a week response and that takes an enormous toll

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Speaker 2: on our members, and our members are struggling, but we

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Speaker 2: need to make sure we're supporting them, and I'm supporting

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Speaker 2: them the best we possibly can to get the resources

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Speaker 2: we need, get the infrastructure changes we need, and for

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Speaker 2: them to have the most best and equipment that they

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Speaker 2: can to respond to these levels of crime across the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: Finny, to anybody listening this morning that feels that there

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Speaker 1: is that racism does exist within the Northern Territory Police,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, is there any tolerance here for racism?

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Speaker 2: There's no tolerance for racism, Katie. And if the police

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Speaker 2: force aren't taking your complaints seriously, if there's complaints being

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Speaker 2: made and aren't taking taken serious, let us know, let

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Speaker 2: us follow it up on your behalf. Because this is

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Speaker 2: not the police force that I want to work for.

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Speaker 2: This is a police force that the people that stand

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Speaker 2: beside me when I'm on the street want to work

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Speaker 2: for either, Katie. And if we're all being tailed with

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Speaker 2: the same brush, why are we even doing what we're

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Speaker 2: doing and the sacrifice that we're making.

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Speaker 1: Well. Police Association President Nathan Finn I always appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much for joining us in the studio.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Katy as has always like to say, is thank

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Speaker 2: you to the men and women in blue out there

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Speaker 2: that do the hard yards and make sure that the

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Speaker 2: community supported and make sure you can do the best

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Speaker 2: possible job you possibly can with what we've got. We've

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Speaker 2: always got your back.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Nathan Finn. Thank you