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Speaker 1: The Northern Territory Firearms Council.

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Speaker 2: They've gotten in contact with me raising concerns that Police

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Speaker 2: Minister Brent Potter has refused to meet with them on

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Speaker 2: multiple occasions about a number of changes to gun laws

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Speaker 2: which have been introduced without what they say, any consultation.

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Speaker 2: The Council represents the interests of all firearm owners, including businesses,

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Speaker 2: which equates to about seventeen thousand territories or one in

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Speaker 2: four households. Now joining me on the line to explain

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Speaker 2: the situation is their president, Andy Armstrong.

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Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Andy, Good morning Gadi.

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Speaker 3: How are you yeah, really.

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Speaker 2: Good mate, Thanks so much for your time. Now, firstly,

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Speaker 2: can you tell me a little bit about the changes

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Speaker 2: to the gun laws and your concerns around those changes.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think most people, regardless of their affiliation with

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Speaker 4: the Act and the regulations, whether they be police members

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Speaker 4: or the general public, if they understand the Act and

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Speaker 4: the rigs, they are very outdated and difficult to deal with.

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Speaker 3: However, in recent times, as in the last feur months,

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Speaker 3: we've seen a number of changes come through that are

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Speaker 3: basically for us, feels like death by a thousand cuts.

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Speaker 3: Due to the fact that it's worked well, it's been

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Speaker 3: workable since nineteen ninety seven since these were brought in,

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Speaker 3: and now there seems to be a number of changes

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Speaker 3: that have been made with regard to little things like

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Speaker 3: interstate tutors acquiring ammunition, waiting periods for firearms permits, and

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Speaker 3: the biggest one of all is there has been no

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Speaker 3: consultation whatsoever with the peak body, which is the Firearms

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Speaker 3: Council and the Minister has an appointed advisor as well,

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Speaker 3: who he hasn't consulted with since October last year when

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Speaker 3: the Minister was appointed in that position and trying to

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Speaker 3: get an audience, yeah, there's mean two cancelations with no

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Speaker 3: intent to reconvene. And to be honest, Firearms Councilors does

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Speaker 3: not generally go public with anything. We tend to try

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Speaker 3: and get things resolved in a plot and communicative way.

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Speaker 3: But we're basically at the end of our tether and

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Speaker 3: we need to represent our people, so we need.

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Speaker 1: Talk us through Who do you represent?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 2: I know that there's like there is actually a lot

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Speaker 2: of territories that have firearms, isn't there?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there is, it's outside of Tasmania. We are the

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Speaker 3: number one as far as per capita goes for firearms ownership,

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Speaker 3: Tazzy is number one. We're number two. And obviously this

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Speaker 3: is very broad reaching with regard to not just recreational

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Speaker 3: shooters and hunters, the security industry, the safari industry, obviously dealers,

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Speaker 3: and several other organizations that have to deal with firearms,

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Speaker 3: including government, you know, the likes of water resources, aquus,

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Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. I mean, they've all got access

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Speaker 3: to and utilized firearms, and they need to obviously keep

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Speaker 3: up to date with their training and their their qualifications

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Speaker 3: and being competent.

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Speaker 2: And so in terms of not being able to meet

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Speaker 2: with the minister, so it actually it falls under the

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Speaker 2: Police Minister Brent Potter, and you've not been able to

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Speaker 2: have a meeting with him about these changes.

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Speaker 3: No, no, we haven't. I understand he has made other

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Speaker 3: people who aren't members of the Firearms Counselor and basically

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Speaker 3: at paddling their own canoe with regards to their own interests.

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Speaker 3: But he is basically not fronted up and wanted to

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Speaker 3: have a chat with us. And under the Act we

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Speaker 3: are written into and constituted by that into Firearms Act

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Speaker 3: on in ninety seven, So I do not understand why

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Speaker 3: he will not engage with us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, look, it seems it seems so.

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Speaker 2: Odd that he wouldn't just meet with you guys when

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Speaker 2: it's you know, like the changes obviously, any legislative changes

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Speaker 2: and no doubt going to have a big impact.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. And a lot of the changes that

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Speaker 3: have happened has happened on the basis of legal advice,

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Speaker 3: and I've got to say, a lot of the legal

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Speaker 3: advice it seems to be forthcoming, doesn't seem to be

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Speaker 3: particularly consistent with what's happened in the last twenty six

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Speaker 3: or eight years. All of a sudden, everything's turned ups or down.

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Speaker 3: And as I said at the start, everyone will agree

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Speaker 3: that it's not the greatest act in the world with

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Speaker 3: regard to the way it's written, in the way it's

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Speaker 3: got to be administered, and I feel sorry for the

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Speaker 3: the AU for having to deal with it the way

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Speaker 3: it is. It could certainly be a lot better for

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Speaker 3: both both police to administer and for the general public,

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Speaker 3: but it is what we've all got to live with,

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Speaker 3: and that's what we need to I guess that's that's

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Speaker 3: what we're.

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Speaker 4: Going to work with.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so andy, when do these changes come into effect.

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Speaker 3: Well, over the last four of months, they've sort of

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Speaker 3: just been sprung upon most of us, like all of

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Speaker 3: a sudden, we get a a notice basically saying, oh,

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Speaker 3: from here on, you need to do this, or from

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Speaker 3: here on you need to do that, And there's been

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Speaker 3: no prior discussion with regard to that type of thing.

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Speaker 3: I'm an example in hand was a perfect example, and

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Speaker 3: was the sale of ammunition to license. Interstate visitors were

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Speaker 3: coming up here to either go hunting or shoot a competition. Now,

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Speaker 3: if you fly up to the territory, you are limited

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Speaker 3: to five kilas of ammunition, which, if you're shooting a

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Speaker 3: serious pistol comp five kilos isn't going to get you

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Speaker 3: very far. If you're shooting a big game rifle comp,

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Speaker 3: five kilos is going to get you nowhere. So you

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Speaker 3: need to be able to access ammunition. So the fact

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Speaker 3: that they can bring their firearm here, the fact that

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Speaker 3: they can drive up here, yeah right, But it's a

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Speaker 3: bit like saying that please come to the territory, but

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Speaker 3: the minute you cross the border, we're not going to

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Speaker 3: sell the any patrol to put in your car.

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Speaker 4: It's that ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I just don't, like, I just can't wrap

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Speaker 2: my head around why the government's not prepared to just

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Speaker 2: meet with you guys, to meet with the Northern Territory

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Speaker 2: Firearms Counsel about this is you know, particularly if, as

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Speaker 2: you've said, you know, you're literally written into the legislation.

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Speaker 2: So has there been any movement whatsoever?

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Speaker 1: Andy?

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Speaker 3: No, not really?

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Speaker 1: So where too from here?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I understand that the Firearms Council had a

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Speaker 2: meeting with the police. Did anything come out of that meeting?

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Speaker 3: We had a meeting which covered clubs and dealers, and

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Speaker 3: there was an agreement basically that the Act and the

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Speaker 3: eggs are in tatters and things need to be done.

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Speaker 3: But the simple solution to that, realistically is we've been

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Speaker 3: doing the same thing for twenty six years. Haven't put

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Speaker 3: a freeze on instead of making band aid changes, put

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Speaker 3: a freeze on what's being done, a moratorium on the

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Speaker 3: current Act in rags and basically do business as usual

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Speaker 3: because it has worked. There has not. I mean, there

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Speaker 3: has not been a a disaster regarding firearms with licensed

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Speaker 3: people in the last twenty six years in the territory.

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Speaker 3: I mean, obviously we've we've had. We've had a couple

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Speaker 3: of incidents, but they were illicit incidents, not licensed people.

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Speaker 3: And basically, let's all put our heads down and get

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Speaker 3: a new act written which has got some sensible outcounts now.

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Speaker 2: And I am told that there has been somewhat appointed

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Speaker 2: by the government whose role it is to advise the

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Speaker 2: police minister in relation to firearms. Have you had productive

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Speaker 2: discussions with them around your concerns?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely, yep, yep. And they're getting ignored as well.

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Speaker 3: It depends on which person you're talking about. Okay, mister

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Speaker 3: Potter has an advisor within his own office. I know that,

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Speaker 3: and yeah, she's a very nonable person. I have not

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Speaker 3: met with her since her appointment, but yeah, I know

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Speaker 3: her from her previous experience in anti belief. And he

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Speaker 3: does also have an appointed independent member as well. Outside

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Speaker 3: of that, I.

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Speaker 2: Can't so andy, I suppose, Look, if you know people

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Speaker 2: listening this morning, if they're not firearm owners, or they're

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Speaker 2: not sort of part of the firearms, you know, like

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Speaker 2: part of you know, different like you'd said, sort of

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Speaker 2: shooting groups or competition shooting or hunting, or you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe they don't work in a role where they actually

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Speaker 2: require a firearm. They're probably listening this morning and thinking, oh, look,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what these regulatory changes are going to mean,

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Speaker 2: or I don't know how it's going to impact territorians

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Speaker 2: on a day to day basis. But I suppose the

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Speaker 2: concern here is the big concern is that you know

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Speaker 2: that these changes being made, but you know that the

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Speaker 2: Firearms Council haven't been consulted with at all about those changes.

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Speaker 1: From what you're saying, no, they haven't.

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Speaker 3: And essentially what these changes a lot of them mean

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Speaker 3: is it's words on paper. It's not actually going to

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Speaker 3: make the community safer. It's not going to and I

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Speaker 3: guess that is that should be the single focus point

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Speaker 3: for anything to do with firearms. Obviously. I mean, firearms

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Speaker 3: are a.

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Speaker 4: Very divisive.

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Speaker 3: Subject for politicians. They they any resort they're talking about

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Speaker 3: firearms when they think they can get some votes out

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Speaker 3: of it. And basically, the changes we're talking about aren't

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Speaker 3: going to make the community safer, aren't going to remove

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Speaker 3: illicit firearms from the community, aren't going to do anything

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Speaker 3: other than inconvenience law abiding, decent people. And you would

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Speaker 3: be very surprised the number of people out there in

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Speaker 3: the community who own a firearm, and you wouldn't have

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Speaker 3: a clue that they did. And that's what they're into,

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Speaker 3: because I mean, we just get on with what we do.

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Speaker 3: We're not we're not criminal people. We're just decent, decent people,

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Speaker 3: hard working people from various backgrounds. I mean, we've got doctors,

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Speaker 3: we've got lawyers, we've got yeah, phrase people, we've got

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Speaker 3: you name it, ye where from where? From every aspect.

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Speaker 2: And the thing is, you know, I suppose to those

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Speaker 2: out there listening that maybe don't have firearms, A guy don't.

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Speaker 2: But it's not an easy process really to just get

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Speaker 2: them registered. You know, you actually have to go through

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Speaker 2: your criminal check. You've got to make sure that you're

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Speaker 2: doing the correct things to be able to own a

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Speaker 2: firearm in the first place, don't you, Andy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, it's a national criminal

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Speaker 3: history check, and basically, if you've done something wrong, the

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Speaker 3: police should be knocking on your door really quick. If

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Speaker 3: you if you've got a firearm, which is that a

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Speaker 3: bit backward up here with regard to the checks they

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Speaker 3: expect you to do every time you if you want

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Speaker 3: to buy a new firearm, you know, if I want

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Speaker 3: to go out and buy a new firearm tomorrow. The

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Speaker 3: number of checks that they've got to do, and they

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Speaker 3: can do it in a very quick manner. You know,

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Speaker 3: if would have done something wrong, they should have already

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Speaker 3: been on my doorsteps.

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Speaker 2: Well, Andy, I really appreciate your time this morning. I mean,

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Speaker 2: if the police minister is listening this morning, what's your

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Speaker 2: message to him.

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Speaker 3: It'd be nice to catch up and have a frank

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Speaker 3: discussion on the things that aren't really going so well

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Speaker 3: for the average person in the community who owns a firearm.

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Speaker 3: We are not the problem in our community. In fact,

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Speaker 3: we're the dead officite. We're very Laura binding. We're very

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Speaker 3: conscious of the fact that we need to protect our

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Speaker 3: sport and grow it, and it would be nice to

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Speaker 3: have a bit of a chat and see if we

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Speaker 3: can basically make some improvements that work for both sides

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Speaker 3: of the counter with regard to the way that the

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Speaker 3: police administer the Firearms Act and the way that we

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Speaker 3: have to deal with the Firearms Act. And a lot

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Speaker 3: of people think that we're on opposing sides because they

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Speaker 3: have a preconceived idea about firearms, but in actual fact,

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Speaker 3: we side with justice. We side with the police. We

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Speaker 3: understand that they are the tough job to do and

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Speaker 3: we don't want to see anything bad in our community.

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Speaker 2: Well, Andy Armstrong, I really appreciate your time this morning.

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Speaker 3: Mate.

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Speaker 2: I know that it's not really you know, speaking out

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Speaker 2: and having this discussion in the media is not really

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Speaker 2: the path that you guys are wanting to take you

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Speaker 2: or really wanting to be in a situation where you

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Speaker 2: could just meet with the police minister to discuss these concerns.

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Speaker 2: So I appreciate you talking to us this morning. Please

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Speaker 2: keep keep us in the loop and let us know

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Speaker 2: whether you do get that meeting with the minister, and

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Speaker 2: we'll be in contact with his office as well to

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Speaker 2: find out why they haven't met with you.

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Speaker 1: At this point.

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Speaker 3: It's been good to come on. At least we've got

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Speaker 3: to express our thought of it, and hopefully Minister Potter

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Speaker 3: is happy to meet with us and we can have

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Speaker 3: a discussion.

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Speaker 4: And we're all about progress. We're all about let's.

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Speaker 3: Do something positive for everyone, not you know, it's not

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Speaker 3: all about us, it's about about the wider and broader view.

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Speaker 2: Andy, thank you so much for chatting with us this morning,

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Speaker 2: and we'll talk to you again very soon