1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: What we learned was a connection wasn't built by sporadic 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: office attendance. 3 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 2: For years, we've been told that culture is built in 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 2: the office in coffee runs, water cooler chats, those random 5 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 2: corridor moments. But Alassian's Chief People Officer, Avanni pruber Car 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 2: has found the opposite. Real connection happens when you intentionally 7 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 2: bring people together. 8 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 3: With a purpose. 9 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 2: In this chat, Avanni takes us inside at Lassian's Team 10 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 2: Anywhere model, which is redefined how thirteen thousand people were globally. 11 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 2: We dig into the experiments that help them discover what 12 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 2: really drives connection, how to structure your day so it's 13 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 2: not just zoom, fatigue and repeat, and why Alassian ditched 14 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 2: PowerPoint all together. If you've ever wondered what the future 15 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 2: of work looks like in practice, this episode is a 16 00:00:55,320 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 2: rare behind the scenes look. Welcome to How I Work, 17 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 2: a show about habits, rituals, and strategies. 18 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 3: For optimizing your day. 19 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:17,919 Speaker 2: I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imba. One of the things 20 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 2: that at Lassian is most famous for is it's team 21 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:22,759 Speaker 2: Anywhere model. 22 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 3: For what I think is twelve thousand employees. Have I 23 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 3: got that right? 24 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 1: It's we're turning towards thirteen thousand plus. Now, yes, so 25 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 1: little over thirteen. 26 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 2: Thousand, thirty thousand. Okay, my numbers are slightly off. 27 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 3: Okay. 28 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 2: For those that haven't heard of the team Anywhere model, 29 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 2: can you just describe briefly what that is all about? 30 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: All right? So for us Team Anywhere, we call it 31 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,559 Speaker 1: team Anywhere intentionally because it's distributed work, it's not remote work. 32 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: And the highest order I would say is we have 33 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: removed their various variant of the work factor in terms 34 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: of where, how who are So we've kind of removed 35 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: where we work in completely out of the equation, which 36 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: means you can work from anywhere. And because at last 37 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: and stands for team, we wanted it to be team Anywhere, 38 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: what it means is you have the choice. It's more 39 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 1: about choice. It's not about working from home. Does this 40 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: mean working from home? Does this mean remote work? And 41 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: be like no, it's about choice. So you have the choice. 42 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: You can work from office so we have one of 43 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: the most world class, fantastic offices, or you can work 44 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: from home, so whatever works for you. So that's Team Anywhere. 45 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: And yeah, I can talk a lot about more you 46 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: know it, but that's their sense of team anywhere, and 47 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: so what's. 48 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:38,519 Speaker 2: The difference between remote first versus a distributed first model. 49 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 1: So, a we believe that the future of work is 50 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: going to be distributed, and even as we speak, teams 51 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: are fairly distributed in the world. How the work is 52 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: coming together. It's no longer the office concept, same people 53 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 1: working in the same office, working on the same thing. 54 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: It's fairly distributed. So that's the difference remote. Often people 55 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: associate remote means work from home. You know, a remote 56 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: means like you're not coming into office, and distributed means 57 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: you can come into office or you can work from home, 58 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: so it can actually be wherever you want it to be. 59 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: That's the clear differentiation. What we mean by distributed first though, 60 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: means I'll make it real with an example. So for example, 61 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: there are four people in a team. Three of them 62 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: are in office whatever like you know, they all decided 63 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: to go into office one day and the fourth person 64 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: is logging in from Melbourne. They're not in Sydney for example. 65 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 1: The three people who are sitting in office will have 66 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: to go in three different pods or meeting rooms to 67 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: make sure they optimize for distributed first experience, which is 68 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: the person who's logging in from home. You optimize for that. 69 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: So you know, where you have one person on zoom 70 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: and three people sitting in a meeting room, you're not 71 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: optimizing for a remote distributed first mindset. That's what we 72 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: mean by that. 73 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's really helpful. 74 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 2: I would love to know when you first moved to 75 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 2: the team Anywhere model, what with some of the more 76 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 2: unusual challenges that you had to overcome, things that you 77 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 2: didn't even think would be a challenge. 78 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: So I would say this was all and maybe I'll 79 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: zoom back. Because everyone associates the ways of working model 80 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: post COVID and pre COVID, post pandemic, pre pandemic. I 81 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: think for us, as at Last and as a company, 82 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: we were experimenting heavily in the future of work being 83 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: remote at that point in time, with small teams. So 84 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: we had about eight percent of our teams already working 85 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 1: wherever they wanted to work that time. You used to 86 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: call it remote. When pandemic happened, for us, it was 87 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 1: like we had enough data points to say like this 88 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: in this works at scale, it works for everyone, so 89 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: we are going ahead and doing it. So I think 90 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: for us, the approach was like we put our stakes 91 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: in the ground, this is what we believe, and we 92 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: just go from there. So it was pretty much a 93 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: one way door decision, and we knew we are taking 94 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 1: a one way door decision. What it means is like, 95 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: once you make it, there's no coming back from it. 96 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: So when you make decisions like that with that premise, 97 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: I think it's much easier to solve for it what 98 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: we learned, and I can tell you, being a HR 99 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: person like it was, it wasn't part of my DNA 100 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: to say like, hey, let's just roll with it and 101 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: then we'll figure it out. I'm like, we're talking about people, 102 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: like we need to put some policies in place, we 103 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: need to put some checks and balances. What will we 104 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 1: tell employees? And this was the first time where I 105 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: think it tested my I would say DNA as well 106 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: as HI to say no, we're doing it now, we'll 107 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 1: figure it out, which meant at every stage had to 108 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,280 Speaker 1: go back and tell people we don't know about this. 109 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: So I don't have an answer for what happens to 110 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: your internal mobility if you move from here to here. 111 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: I do not know what is the tax implication. I 112 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: do not know what will happen, but hang in there. 113 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,359 Speaker 1: We are working through it. So I think that approach 114 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: itself is very important to call out because it's very different. Otherwise, 115 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 1: most of the other companies were like, let's write down 116 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: all of that, put it to tea and then we 117 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 1: take it versus this was like, we're doing it. So 118 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: I think what it helped us was we did a 119 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: lot of experimentation. So I'll give you an example in 120 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: terms of we are figuring it out, things like collabse zones. 121 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: We call them collaboration zones. In terms of what I 122 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: book work can happen across different time zones. What is 123 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: a good amount of overlap? Is four hours overlap between 124 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 1: Sydney and West Coast California. Is that a good amount 125 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: of collaboration time zone for people to work on the 126 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: same thing? Right? Does it make sense for somebody in 127 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: Sydney to work with somebody in London? Maybe not? The 128 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: overlap is not there. So I think when we were 129 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: kind of listing it down, it gave us a clear 130 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: framework in terms of the what are the real pillars 131 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: that we'll have to really establish as we think through it. 132 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: So one was that how distributed the work can be 133 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: how do you solve for productivity? Like everyone wanted to 134 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: make sure that we are not burning people out and 135 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: we are making sure that we are doing the right thing. 136 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: Third thing was about connection, and I think connection was 137 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: the most interesting I would say part that we unpacked 138 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: during this learning in terms of there's so much, so 139 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: many myths around connection, starting from the fact that, hey, 140 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: you build connection when you're sitting next to each other 141 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: in office. So I can talk a bit about more, 142 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: but that was one of the most interesting parts. 143 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 2: I would love to know more about connection because I 144 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 2: think it's one of the biggest challenges that leaders grapple with. 145 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 3: So how have you solved the connection? 146 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: So what we learned, and again I will always emphasize 147 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,119 Speaker 1: that this is our learning and our journey and probably 148 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: each organization has their own experiences. What we learned was 149 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: a connection wasn't built by sporadic office attendants where people 150 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: just show up and you know, you assume, like the 151 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: water cooler chat and like going out for a coffee 152 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: is when you build connection. What we found out was 153 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: when you bring people intentionally together. We call them intentional togetherness. 154 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: That's our framework. It's called itg so we every once 155 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: every quarter. If you bring teams together, and it can 156 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: be cross functional teams, not like your hierarchical teams. You 157 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: bring the teams that are trying to solve a particular problem. 158 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: So you bring them together, give them a strategic problem 159 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: to solve. It could be an ideation, sprint, it could 160 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: be a strategic brainstorm, whatever it is. But you bring 161 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: together teams for a purpose to solve something, and that's 162 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: when you build real connection. Most of the time people remember, 163 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: like you know each other, like hey, remember we were 164 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: doing that project together and it was socialty. But they 165 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: build the most amount of connection with each other. So 166 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: the way we have solved for connection is really doing 167 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: once every quarter. Itgs and every team can decide what 168 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: framework works for them once every quarter, once every three 169 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: months based on the nature of the work the cross 170 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: functional team is working on. They come together, they spend 171 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: two three days together on doing a particular thing, doing 172 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: some connection you know, team building stuff, and then they 173 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: go back and then that connection lasts for like another 174 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 1: two three months and then you come back again. So 175 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: you don't need an in office attendance to build connection. 176 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: It is more in terms of you bring people together 177 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: for purpose to solve something at a cadence that work 178 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: for the team, and then you go back and solve it. 179 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:51,319 Speaker 2: So I'd love to know how you think about workday 180 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 2: design at Lassian. 181 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: Designing the workday around you know, work is very important, 182 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: so not sitting in meetings like three fourth of your 183 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: work day because then it's happening to you. So we 184 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: have we did a research again internally and we said 185 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: your work has to be divided into three blocks. One, 186 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 1: of course, there is meeting blocks, so if you want 187 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: to be in the critical mission critical meetings, you put 188 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: twenty to thirty percent time for that. Then you keep 189 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: thirty forty percent in doing deep work. And deep work 190 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: has to be just with yourself. That's when you are 191 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: actually writing a page or thinking about a strategy, whatever 192 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: it is. So I think have make sure that you 193 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:29,719 Speaker 1: know thirty forty percent of your time is dedicated there. 194 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: And then you have collaboration windows. This is where you 195 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: spend another thirty percent time with your colleagues who are 196 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: in different time zone, so you know in your collapse 197 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: zone you will chime in with another colleague who you 198 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: need to work with. So I think being very intentional 199 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: about how you structure your day kind of really helps 200 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: you being more successful in a distributed environment. Otherwise you 201 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: don't change that, and then you keep rolling from one 202 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: meeting to another and everyone feels the zoom fatigue and 203 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: so on and so forth. So I would say, if 204 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: you as a company or as a team you're thinking 205 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 1: about moving into more distributed ways of working, you have 206 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: to really focus on how you structure your days, how 207 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 1: you structure your meetings. What are the asynchronous ways of 208 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: working in terms of writing, culture, doing loom. I think 209 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,079 Speaker 1: all of those things needs to be thought through. And 210 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: then the fourth pillar is around connection, how often you 211 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: bring teams together and then collaboration. 212 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 2: Zonesvannie, I would love to know how do you personally 213 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 2: structure your day as a leader. 214 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 1: I do this without any default every single day. I 215 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: start my day with intentionality and with a lot of gratitude. 216 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: So I will step out with my dog early in 217 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: the morning, I will pay my gratitude to the universe, 218 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: to sun farizing for everything that is around me. I 219 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: do my meditation that helps me anchor for first fifteen 220 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: minutes of my day, and then I do sit down 221 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: and just prioritize in terms of at any given point 222 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: in time, no matter what role you're doing, I can 223 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: tell you they'll always be only top three things. Rest 224 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: there'll be a long tail. Don't make that tail. You 225 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: know a list of top five priorities, just pick top three. 226 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: And I do run very flat and lean in terms 227 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 1: of my organization. The reason I do it is my 228 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,439 Speaker 1: team knows that I'll pick up three things and I'll 229 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: go very deep in it. So make sure that you 230 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: are one of those leaders who's t shaped. But you 231 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,599 Speaker 1: have three top priorities and you can go deep in it, 232 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: which also means that you're not doing your regular one 233 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: in months. With all people on your team or all 234 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: your direct reports, they know like, if you fall into 235 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 1: those three priorities, you will get to work with me 236 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: in e which ways and I'll be in the trenches. 237 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: So that I do that, and in terms of communication 238 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 1: is most important. And I think as you scale, most 239 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: of the leaders struggle with like, hey, how do I 240 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: make sure I'm giving the right direction and people are 241 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: following in. For me, I feel like the biggest unlock 242 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: has been asynchronous communication. So I do my looms, I 243 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: do my voice notes, i'd write my this thing and 244 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: make sure that if I am traveling, which I do 245 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: a lot, I send comms and everything from my team 246 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: on looms and everything thatever I am. So that's how 247 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: I manage my day but also manage my COUNTRYMIT and. 248 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:04,719 Speaker 2: Annie, I'd love to know how this works for you, 249 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 2: Like what does a typical work week look. 250 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 3: Like for you in terms of where you're working from? 251 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 2: And then with these intentional togetherness gatherings, like what's an 252 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 2: example of one of those that you've attended, I'll. 253 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: Give an example. Maybe it's for people team, right, and 254 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: every team does it differently, but for the people organization 255 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: that I lead, what I realized was like, so you 256 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: have regional itgs where you can bring region together. So 257 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,599 Speaker 1: what I do right now is I do travel to 258 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: each of my regions and then I bring the regional 259 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: teams together. So I was in India last week. We 260 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: pulled together the entire India region together. I was in 261 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 1: Amsterdam a couple of weeks ago we built the Wholy 262 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: Media team together. So that's what it looks like for 263 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: my team. And then once every two years, you know 264 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: or whatever, this thing that I I have organized, I 265 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: bring the entire team together, like the full people team 266 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: together at one location. You know what is to everyone. 267 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: So that's how it looks like for people team. In 268 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: terms of talking about connection and what does it mean 269 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: for me, I would say I overemphasize on what we 270 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: call is asynchronous ways of working. So there is synchronous 271 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: ways of working, which is in a meeting, but there 272 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 1: is a separate works team which is asynchronous where the 273 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 1: work happens in its own time. And what I mean 274 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: by that is I don't need a meeting for every 275 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: decision that I need to make. I don't need a 276 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: meeting to communicate everything that I need to do with 277 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: my team. I do asynchronous communication, so that happens through 278 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: a confluence page that happens through Loom, which is one 279 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,839 Speaker 1: of our own tools that we use, where I share 280 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,719 Speaker 1: the content and then teams starts chiming in on it 281 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: at their own time, and then that's when the richer 282 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: conversation starts on that. So I can talk a little 283 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: bit more about the asynchronous ways of working, but I 284 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: personally kind of dwell heavily on asynchronous ways of working 285 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 1: in this distributed work. 286 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 3: I would love to talk about that. 287 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 2: When I was preparing for this, I read a statistic 288 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:07,959 Speaker 2: that video messaging tools like LOOM has helped eliminate close 289 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 2: to half a million hours of meetings across at lassion, 290 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 2: which blew my mind. I would love to know your 291 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 2: work life what it looked like before Loom and after Loom, 292 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 2: Like I'd love to know an example of what is 293 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 2: something that you were previously doing synchronously that then you 294 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 2: shifted to doing asynchronously using a tool like LOLOM. 295 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: So I would say in Atlas and our tool good 296 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: looks very different. So no emails. Your meetings are the 297 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: last resorts, so we start with recording looms where possible. 298 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: So I'll give you an example my team meetings, like 299 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: there was a rhythm to say like, hey, we'll do 300 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: it every week and then we'll bring decisions from each 301 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: of my team to say like hey, we need to 302 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: approve this particular decision, and then everyone's far on it 303 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: and then we go from there. Right now, my frequency 304 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: of my team meetings is not a weekly cadence, right 305 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: it is based on it's once every two weeks, so 306 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: there's not even a cadence. It's always based on what 307 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: decisions we need to make. Most of the time, if 308 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: there's a decision that needs to be made. Anyone from 309 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: my team will make a loom. They'll drop it in 310 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: my slack channel team slack channel to say like, hey, team, 311 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: we are making these changes to our benefits policy, right 312 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: and these are the two three options. ABNI has looked 313 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: at it asynchronously already on a page, and we need 314 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: your inputs. And this is a decision meeting like decision loom, 315 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: so you need to put a tick against it, each 316 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: one of you who say yes to it. So we 317 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 1: drop the loom. Everyone on the team will listen it 318 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:39,359 Speaker 1: to it. Because my team is fairly distributed US Emia, India, Australia, 319 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: and I would say in twenty four hours loop time, 320 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: I can go back and then see in terms of 321 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: what my team had to say, and then after that 322 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: I will go and make a decision to say, you 323 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: know what, I've heard everyone's voice, this is done, and 324 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: then we go from there. So I've kind of avoided 325 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: like a full meeting, which everyone would in my previous 326 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: life would have said, we need this meeting because we 327 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: need to make an important decision to using loom to 328 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: make some of those decisions. 329 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 2: So I wonder with that example that you've just described 330 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 2: about sharing looms and making decisions and doing that all 331 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 2: by a combination of posting things on the Slack channel 332 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 2: and watching looms. I wonder, are you missing out on 333 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 2: something when you choose not to gather people synchronously? 334 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, do you ever wonder? 335 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 2: You know, is the debate that would have been had 336 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 2: were it not for this default to asynchronous communication. 337 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: It's interesting you asked that. So what I have seen 338 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: on loom is the composition is actually much more rich. 339 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: So there's less posturing that's happening. There's less you know, 340 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: stakeholder management that happens in a live setting. There's less 341 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: body language, like people are trying to manage and read 342 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: the room and say, oh fine, if this person has 343 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: made this point, then maybe I should say it then 344 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: this way. I think it is just kind of it 345 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: removes all of that and the real conversation takes place 346 00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: in loom setting because then I'm not managing any of that. 347 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: So I think, if you ask me, the conversation is 348 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: more inclusive. People usually who would have never had the 349 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 1: chance to speak or like give their point of view 350 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: in loom setting. It's much more like they can write 351 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: it well it's much more articulate. People have given it 352 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 1: some thought before putting some you know. So I feel 353 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 1: like this way of brainstorming gives me much more richer, broader, 354 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: more thoughtful, and deeper interaction, and it kind of removes 355 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: all the other variabilities of who's an introvert, who's an extrovert, 356 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: who's the louder voice, so on and so forth. 357 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 2: One of the things I know about it, Lassion, is 358 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 2: that you have a no PowerPoint culture. 359 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 3: Can you tell me, like, what does this mean? 360 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 2: And how do people who are maybe used to producing 361 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 2: slide decks, how do you adapt to that? 362 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: Okay, I'll give my example. Maybe when I joined at Lastian, 363 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: like my entire toolkit changed. I had an Apple laptop, 364 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,479 Speaker 1: I did not have, you know, my Dell. I did 365 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: not have my Microsoft tool kit in terms of PowerPoint, 366 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: Excel and everything. So it took me a while and 367 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 1: I'll be honest in terms of to switch gears into this. 368 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,640 Speaker 1: But once you do that, I can tell you it's 369 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: like you can't go back to what you know, go 370 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 1: back to a power point culture. So what we mean 371 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: is like a there are no presentations, it doesn't matter 372 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: PowerPoint keynote so you don't come and start presenting in 373 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: a meeting. Right, we believe that the real conversation is 374 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: you write your thoughts. It's a written culture. In acyncluded world, 375 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: we do believe like what you write it becomes very important. 376 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 1: And I think with AI coming and it's even more 377 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 1: important things write it down. Companies who have got enough 378 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:44,360 Speaker 1: good documentation will have much richer intervention with AI. Engagement 379 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: with AIM maybe not intervention. So no powerpunk culture means 380 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 1: that you don't come and present in meetings. You write 381 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 1: down your thoughts on a page. We start a meeting 382 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: by sharing a page. Everyone takes goes off camera for 383 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,400 Speaker 1: five or ten minutes, whatever the retime is for the page. 384 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 1: We read it, we comment on it. Person who has 385 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 1: written the page will read the comments and they know 386 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: by then okay, fine, this is where the conversation is 387 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: going to go. And then for the actual meeting that 388 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: we are in, we have a real conversation about it. Right, 389 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: Because when you're presenting, it's like one person is presenting, 390 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: you go slide by slide, asking question or you go 391 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 1: through the well. It doesn't really provide rich conversation, whereas 392 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 1: when you do it in this format, people have had 393 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: the time to read it, react to it, and then 394 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: for whatever twenty minutes that meeting is for is where 395 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 1: the real conversation starts. So that's how we do it. 396 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: We don't do any presentations, so it has kind of 397 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,439 Speaker 1: helped us. I would say remove all the talk, if 398 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: that makes sense, because when you're trying to present, you're 399 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: trying to really present, You're trying to present yourself. You're 400 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: trying to present your ideas in a different way, whereas 401 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: when you write it down, when you talk about it, 402 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:51,360 Speaker 1: then you're talking about the real shit, like okay, fine. 403 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: And it also helps us simplify. So you're saying this 404 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: or this, you're saying this, Okay, let's move to the 405 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: next point. 406 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 3: So how did you adapt to that? 407 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 2: And I guess on that question, how do you think 408 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 2: about what to write in one of those papers that 409 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 2: people read at the start of the meeting where you're 410 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 2: trying to get your point of view across. 411 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: I would say it the focus is on substance over style, 412 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: so it creates a single source of truth that everyone 413 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,199 Speaker 1: can anchor and access upon. When you're writing, you are 414 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: also creating a culture of more openness because everything that 415 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 1: you write on a conference page is default open, so 416 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: you open and you collaborate. So I feel like with that, 417 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: the collaboration also happens much easier. How do you think 418 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 1: about writing? I think at first you'll feel like, oh 419 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: am I writing a formal document. Should I be reusing 420 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: a more strategic language here? But I think once you 421 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 1: get used to it, you will see that you are 422 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: just writing your thoughts down. Scrappy is good. I think 423 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 1: it promotes being scrappy. Hey, Amantha, I think I'm going 424 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: to speak to you about this. This is the podcast, 425 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: this is what I want to know, and then I'll 426 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 1: just type it out so then it doesn't have to 427 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: flow through in a certain way, and it's how your 428 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: brain things, is what you're writing on a page, which 429 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: is more authentic. 430 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 2: Also, don't go away because coming up a Vanni shares 431 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 2: how Atlasian's HR team, most of them non technical, built 432 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 2: their own AI agents from scratch. We get into what 433 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 2: it means to drive the AI wave rather than just 434 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 2: write it, how humans and AI can become true collaborators, 435 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 2: and why the richest conversations sometimes happen outside live meetings. 436 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 2: If you're looking for more tips to improve the way 437 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 2: you work can live. I write a short weekly newsletter 438 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 2: that contains tactics I've discovered that have helped me personally. 439 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 2: You can sign up for that at Amantha dot com. 440 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 2: That's Amantha dot com. Something I have heard about you 441 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 2: is that you advocate for hr to drive the AI 442 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 2: wave and not just write it. Just driving the AI 443 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 2: wave actually look like in practice. For the people team 444 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 2: at it Lessian. 445 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: We have certain beliefs at a company level. First of all, 446 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: we are saying AI is has to be led by 447 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: doing a culture transformation. It's not a technology transformation like 448 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 1: the previous waves where you just drive, implement tools, technology 449 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: and change ways of working. And here is a transformation 450 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 1: I think AI. We are very clear it has to 451 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 1: be led by culture transformation. What I mean by culture 452 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: is we believe organizations who will create faster learning loops 453 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: which means you learn fast, you fail fast, learn fast, 454 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: you fail fast that loop are the ones who will 455 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: move in a very different direction than others. So we 456 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 1: are kind of really overemphasizing on creating a culture of experimentation. 457 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: Second key focus area for us is that the upskilling 458 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: loop has to be built really fast. In that process, 459 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: so you know, you learn by actually tinkering with it, 460 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: not by you know, saying hey, here's tool and you 461 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: start using it. The third belief we also have is 462 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: like we are not leading AI with a cost and 463 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: efficiency as the end goal. I think the organization who 464 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: will lead with efficiency, cost and all of that with 465 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: the end goal, they're going to miss out because where 466 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 1: they will stop the moment AI gives you X number 467 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: of hours of saving, they will stop and they will 468 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,360 Speaker 1: start celebrating. Whereas we feel the organization who will get 469 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: the real benefit out of it, who will unlock those 470 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 1: extra many hours in a week to do something more innovating, 471 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: going after a new business opportunity. I think that's where 472 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: the real magic of AI happens, the creativity and innovation part. 473 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 1: So I think that's our second belief. Third one is 474 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: we do believe that you need to do all of 475 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 1: this responsibily. So we have a responsible tech framework. We 476 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: create sandbox kind of environment for our employees to play 477 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 1: with it. So there's a studio where non tech person 478 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 1: can build their own agent, and I can share more 479 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 1: examples of how my team has built their own agents 480 00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,400 Speaker 1: in HR with no supporter of tech and that's when 481 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 1: you drive the real benefits of AI at the real 482 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: adoption rather than saying, hey, use Copilot, CHATCHI or whatever 483 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: you have rolled out in your organization and start tracking 484 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 1: that adoption. 485 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 2: I would love to hear more about the agents that 486 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 2: your HR team, your non technical team. 487 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 3: Take me through a couple of examples. 488 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: So Nora is, I'll probably start with our first use case, 489 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: which was onboarding. I told my talent team, what is 490 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,640 Speaker 1: the most number one important problem you're trying to solve, 491 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: and they said, be optimizing for employee experience and number 492 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 1: one employe experience has to be onboarding. So they created 493 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: this onboarding agent. It's called Nora, a new hire onboarding, 494 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: a robo agent, er a lassan. My talent team they 495 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: built it out in the studio all by themselves. They 496 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: didn't need any support from anyone from tech, so which 497 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: there was a sense of fright that non tech folks 498 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: are creating building their own agent. They knew the pain points, 499 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 1: so the way they designed it, the way they created it, 500 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: agent had a lot more personality because it was almost 501 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: like somebody from here h was addressing on new hires. Currently, 502 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: Norah has got the highest use it so seventy percent 503 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: of our new hires they have Nora day one and 504 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 1: it is a personalized version for each one of them, 505 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 1: so they interact with Nora. Nora has got its personality 506 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: based on whatever team you're joining. It's marketing, HR finance. 507 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: You can ask anything to Norah and it will give 508 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: you a response in terms of helping you in your 509 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 1: on boarding. So that's one use case. We had another 510 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:29,360 Speaker 1: one it's called Coco. It's basically for helping managers doing 511 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: conversation with the team in terms of when you're delivering 512 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: the comp outcomes. Those are the most sensitive ones. So 513 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: we have something that we created where managers can ask like, hey, 514 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: based on what you know, how do you think I 515 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 1: should position this conversation. It's just you know. So we 516 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: have quite a few use cases, and the good part 517 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: in all of this is our teams have created it 518 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: and so hence there's a lot of cride. Adoption is 519 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: not an issue. It's some more bottom step motion. 520 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 2: And so given your HR teams are non technical, what 521 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,679 Speaker 2: tools did they use and how did they learn how 522 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 2: to use those tools to create these agents? 523 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: It depends so based on whatever is the AI stack 524 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: you're using, so for us, we use our own homegrown 525 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: Drovo studio. So it's a agent studio. You go in 526 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 1: and you can start building. It's fairly interitive. So you 527 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: tell Rovero to say like, hey, I want to create 528 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: an agent, and then you give some prompts there and 529 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,239 Speaker 1: then you start refining and keep working on it, keep 530 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: working on it, and then you start playing with the 531 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,160 Speaker 1: agent and it becomes much smarter. It is fairly easy 532 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 1: and simple as you think, like anyone else listening, they'll 533 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: be like, oh my god, I need to learn whipe coding. 534 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: I need to do that now, like we didn't do 535 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: any of that. I think the best way is to 536 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: just start command writing commands, see what comes out of it, 537 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: keep it aating, give second command and then that's how 538 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,120 Speaker 1: you learn. And once you put that agent into motion 539 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: is when you learn. Oh my god, I asked this 540 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: person to So, for example, I created an agent for myself. 541 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: It's called Angel. It takes after my dog's name. And 542 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: because the agent is called Angel, and it helped me 543 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: prior to my week because it knows what work is 544 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: happening in my space. I say, hey, can you help 545 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 1: me tell me what are my top three priorities, What 546 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: should I be focusing on? What trade offs do I 547 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: need to make? And then it gives me I would 548 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: say sixty seventy percent, you know, good information and then 549 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: I can build on it. Yeah, and this is something 550 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,479 Speaker 1: I created myself in the studio. 551 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 3: How did you create that? What inputs are you giving it? 552 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: Like? 553 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 2: Is it accessing your calendar, your inbox? Have you given 554 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 2: it like a briefing document around your role and the company? 555 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 2: What actually went into producing that agent? 556 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,160 Speaker 1: So, because it has got connectors built. So if you're 557 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: using Jobo, which is our AI tool that we use 558 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: our AI agent, it has connector built to my calendar, 559 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: to my emails, not to my Slack, but it can 560 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: see what confluence pass am I reading, so based on 561 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,719 Speaker 1: you know, it knows my workspace really well in my ecosystem, 562 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: so it kind of pulls all this information out to say, 563 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: like these other five things you've been working on or 564 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,400 Speaker 1: you've been engaging on. So that's how it pulls that information. 565 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: The connectors are in build. To answer your question, I 566 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 1: don't need to build any connection. 567 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 2: And I would love to know your views on you know, 568 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 2: we've got human workmates, but we've now got these AI workmates. 569 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 2: How do you see that relationship between the humans and 570 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 2: the AI, whether they be agents or some other form 571 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 2: of AI, Like, how do you see that that collaboration 572 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 2: evolving over the next couple of years. 573 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,959 Speaker 1: So we surveyed close to about five thousand knowledge workers 574 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,640 Speaker 1: when we were working on an AI Collaboration report, because 575 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: we always want to learn in terms of how others 576 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: are doing it. What we found out was that there 577 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: are different stages of you know, your AI journey. So 578 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 1: I'll probably give you a quick snapshot. Stage one is 579 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: you're sending an email to a stakeholder and you asked 580 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: AI to summarize it or chain the tone to be 581 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: more business ing and so on and so forth. I 582 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: think that's a lot of people are tinkering and working 583 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: with AI and that and they're super happy. They're like, wow, 584 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: like AIS made my life easy. Stage two is when 585 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: you use AI to search for information within your company 586 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: to add relevant context to your email. So you go 587 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: and you do an enterprise search and AI to say like, hey, 588 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 1: I'm writing this update, can you give me more data points? 589 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: So that's I would say, and then you move to 590 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: stage two right. Stage three and four is where you 591 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: actually move into being a more strategic user. Right, So 592 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: I think stage one into a you're a basic user. 593 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: Stage three is when you are working on a project 594 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: and so you're a market researcher. You need to pull 595 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: a research, you go into deep research and you pull 596 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: out you ask AI to give that information to you. Right, 597 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: I would say that's stage three where you are asking 598 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: AI to analyze data, identify patterns, provide recommendation to help 599 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: you make some decision making. I would say the fourth 600 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: one to your point in terms of when do you 601 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: think the human AI collaboration becomes really real is at 602 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: stage four when you are working with AI as your 603 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: teammate and you are building hypothesis. So you've got a 604 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: work product in front of you, half done by AI 605 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: with your inputs. Now you start running hypothesis to say, like, 606 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: so what if I do this? Like what makes you 607 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: think that this market is? You know, if I pull 608 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: these two variables, what is going to happen? Why do 609 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: you think this product research will be successful? 610 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 3: Like? 611 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: Once you start sparring like you would spa with any 612 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: other human is when I feel like you moved to 613 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: the more strategic user of AI. At stage four and 614 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: that's where the real collaboration begins. I think until then 615 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: you are asking question, its responding to you, it's fixing 616 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 1: some basic things for you. But I think until you 617 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: do not move to be a strategic user. That's what 618 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: we gathered in our report is when you start building 619 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 1: real collaboration. What we also found out people who are 620 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: study users the amount of time they are saving, so 621 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: they say close about one hundred and five minutes, you know, 622 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: per week if you want to become a strategic user. 623 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 1: So we did some analysis also in terms of what 624 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: is that amount of time they're saving when they're using 625 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: AI in that space. We also saw in terms of 626 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: their creative output and innovative output is ten x more 627 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: than some of the other teammates because they're able to 628 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: use the headspace very differently. So if you ask me, 629 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: I think at this point, I'm how I see human 630 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: AI collaboration. I feel like everyone will be going through 631 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: these phases the sooner you get to that top, you know, 632 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: the strategic user phase is where you start unlocking the 633 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: real benefits of AI. 634 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 3: And how does that work at it Lassian? Do you 635 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 3: grade people on where they're at in. 636 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 2: Terms of those four stages or do you measure that 637 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 2: so that you're looking at what AI adoption looks like? 638 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 3: What does that look like? 639 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: So at this point in time, I think we are 640 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: focusing more in terms of driving the culture of experimentation. 641 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: You're not starting from measuring because right now we're like, okay, fine, 642 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: let's just have an AI community. We have AAR champions 643 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: assigned to each and every team. Sixty percent of our 644 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: workforce is fairly tech, so we don't have an AI 645 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: adoption challenge because they anyways are breathing and working in 646 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: the AI space day and in dr It is for 647 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: our non tech folks and they're We're doing all these 648 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: things in terms of driving the AI culture, creating the 649 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 1: sandbox environment like I said, we did for the HR 650 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 1: team to create their own agents. I'm giving examples of onboarding, 651 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: helping managers have conversations during performance cycle. So we're building 652 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: some of those grounds up. How are we measuring it 653 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: at this point in time? Like I said, we're still 654 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: tinkering with it. If I'm being absolutely honest, and we 655 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: don't give any badges, we're not giving any this thing 656 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: to the employees as yet, but yes, we are thinking 657 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: about it. In terms of how do you create That 658 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: we I'd love. 659 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 2: To finish is thinking about the future of work, because 660 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 2: you're obviously someone that thinks very deeply about this space, 661 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 2: and I would love to know what are two or 662 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 2: three things that you are predicting to really change about 663 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 2: the world of work Over the next couple of. 664 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: Years, I believe more leaders will start to focus on 665 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: how we work and not where we work. I know 666 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: people are still figuring out the journey, but I feel 667 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: like though where we work variable will completely go off. 668 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: You know, it won't be a thing. That's my belief. 669 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: That's the future of work. Asynchronous communication will become foundation 670 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: of modern team work. That's my second belief, which means 671 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: that the traditionally in person businesses that already work in 672 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: a distributed way spread out across office floor building or cities, 673 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: will rely more and more on asynchronous communication. So it's 674 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: not going to be about zoom meetings or having a 675 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,239 Speaker 1: live meeting. I think the world will move to more 676 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: asynchronous ways of working because the work needs to happen 677 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 1: in its own time, and AI will help us make 678 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: that too faster. Third one is the human AI collaboration 679 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: will become the is I should say future of work. 680 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: It is the presence, but it will become the future 681 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: of work. Companies who can really nail the human AI 682 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: collaboration AI will move from being a tool we use 683 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: occasionally to an integral part of our daily workflow. So 684 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: I think those are my three core belief system in 685 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: terms of when I look at what will hold true 686 00:33:58,520 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 1: in for future of work. 687 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 2: Those predictions for the future of work of Arnie and 688 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 2: I got to say, I am so grateful that we 689 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 2: finally got to get this scheduled in the diary. It 690 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 2: has been just so brilliant just diving into a Lassian's 691 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 2: really interesting and unique ways of working. 692 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 3: And thank you for sharing so generously with me today. 693 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me, Amanda. 694 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 2: Here's the thought that I keep coming back to after 695 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 2: this conversation with Avarne. Connection doesn't just happen, it is designed. 696 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 2: Avarni joke that when you bring people together intentionally, even 697 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 2: just once a quarter, the bonds last far longer than 698 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 2: a handful of. 699 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 3: Offers catchups ever could. 700 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 2: So the next time you're tempted to cram your calendar 701 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:51,800 Speaker 2: with more meetings, try instead asking what's one purposeful gathering 702 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 2: that I could organize that could strengthen my team for months. 703 00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 2: And if you want to keep exploring new ways of working, 704 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,320 Speaker 2: check u my conversation with Tim Dukan, the ex CEO 705 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 2: who works three days a week and lives on a beach. 706 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 2: And if you found this episode useful, share it with 707 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 2: someone else who might be wrestling how to make hybrid 708 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,919 Speaker 2: or distributed work actually work. If you like today's show, 709 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 2: make sure you get follow on your podcast app to 710 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 2: be alerted when new episodes drop. 711 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 3: How I Work was recorded on 712 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 2: The traditional land of the Warrangery people, part of the 713 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:27,399 Speaker 2: cool And Nation.