1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Daniel Flynn doesn't see the world the same way most 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: people do. Sure, he's as sickened as anyone else by 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: the amount of plastic water bottles we buy as consumers, 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: But instead of bemoaning that fact or even trying to 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: stop it from happening, he decided to leave Ridget for good. 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: As the co founder of thank You, He's on a 7 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: mission to make products that will end poverty, to direct 8 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: our consumerist habits to a better cause, and his company's 9 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:35,319 Speaker 1: profits to people who really need help. But how does 10 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 1: a company founded on ambitious, people centered ideas operate when 11 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: everyone starts working from home? And how does Daniel make 12 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: time to keep dreaming up these big ideas instead of 13 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: getting stuck in the weeds of day to day operations. 14 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: My name is doctor amanthe Imbat. I'm an organizational psychogist 15 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: and the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium. And this 16 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: is how I work, a show about how to help 17 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: you do your best work. Thank You. Daniel's company was 18 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: early on the remote work bandwagon. They became remote first 19 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 1: back in twenty eighteen, much to Daniel's resistance. 20 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 2: I was the office guy, Like it was all about 21 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: the office the culture, the vibe in the office, and 22 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 2: I met people that worked remote and I'd laugh, I 23 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 2: think you've just missed it. So it was a big 24 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 2: thing in twenty eighteen for me my other co founder, Justine, 25 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 2: we're also married. And then a bunch of us were 26 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 2: working on all about global expansion and future direction of 27 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 2: the business. We went to a remote working setup and 28 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 2: I thought this is going to be terrible, but it wasn't. 29 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 2: We found ways to make it remarkable and actually, on reflection, 30 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 2: it was like, this shoe fits the future of thank 31 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 2: you and the future of work for us. And it 32 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 2: was a journey to take the rest of the team on. Hey, 33 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 2: let's get to a trial of sort of half half 34 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 2: half in the office, half from home. And by the 35 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 2: time we got everyone on board with that, our first 36 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: week of trial for the part remote working ended up 37 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 2: being the first week of lockdown for the pandemic in Melbourne, 38 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 2: and so it was five days from home, you know, wow, 39 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 2: from day one. Yeah, And we were weirdly prepared, at 40 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 2: least at a leadership level. We were ready for something. 41 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: Certainly no one knew what was coming, but it helped 42 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 2: get the rest of the team on board. 43 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: So given how important you think the office culture was 44 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: or is, how have you fostered that same culture when 45 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: everyone works from different locations? 46 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 2: Okay, so for us working remote and fully flexible, there's 47 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 2: an interesting piece of the puzzle that I think without it, 48 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 2: the whole thing falls apart. So we haven't gone into 49 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 2: this going how do we save money on rent? You know, 50 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 2: all the office expenses, which which add up. I mean, 51 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 2: even if you think it's just rent, which we did 52 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: at one point, when you truly critically look at office expenses, 53 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 2: it adds up. And then you add on top of 54 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 2: it the time expense when you realize that everyone is investing. 55 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 2: Some of us are investing ten hours a week just 56 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 2: to turn up at that place. Right, So it's actually 57 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 2: a huge investment to pull it off, and there's a 58 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 2: huge cost. We haven't necessarily gone how do we save money? 59 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 2: Absolutely time that time saving back into people this week 60 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 2: is great. But one of the things we do in 61 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 2: our model is every eight weeks we come together as 62 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,119 Speaker 2: a team. And so that means if you're inter state, 63 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 2: you fly into Melbourne, where i'd say about sixty to 64 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 2: seventy percent of our team still reside, and we're fly 65 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 2: in and we have a team day, and on that 66 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 2: team day, it is there are no kind of awkward 67 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 2: team building exercises. We try and avoid them. We don't 68 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 2: have like here's a bunch of content we're going to 69 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 2: throw at you, because you can't just come and hang 70 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 2: out for a day, can you, like, so we've actually 71 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 2: gone all in on hanging out and so we come together. 72 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 2: It is social. We see it as mission critical, so 73 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 2: you know, it is it is kind of mandatory. I mean, 74 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 2: you don't you know, if you can't make it, you 75 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: can't make it. But we really encourage people to be 76 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 2: at it as if it was the annual strategy day, 77 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 2: and we do that so we'll have a kickoff for 78 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 2: the year here as where we're heading super strategic deep 79 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 2: into the detail of the work. But every other day 80 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: the goal is that it's time to connect, and so 81 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 2: we go all in on connection and so we have fun, 82 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 2: We have lunches and you know, we we different activities. 83 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 2: You know, sometimes I tell friends are like, what you're allowed, 84 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 2: you can't do that, that's not what you're not working. 85 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 2: It's like, no, we're not, we're not working. But we 86 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 2: like I can't think of and different friendship groups maybe different, 87 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 2: but I can't think of a group of friends where 88 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 2: I spend ten you know, and it depends on the year, 89 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 2: but between eight and ten full days just hanging out, 90 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 2: I can't think of that. And that's what we have 91 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 2: and it fosters deeper and greater relationships and that helps 92 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 2: us when you are on Zoom or on teams and 93 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 2: you know, you don't have that in depth connection that 94 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 2: you do get in an office. So that's the other 95 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 2: half of what we do and it really helps. 96 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 1: So if I was a member of the Thank You 97 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: Team and I attended one of these connection days, what 98 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 1: are some of the things and activities that I could 99 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: expect to experience? 100 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 2: A great question. I mean they're all different. We try 101 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 2: and keep them different from like you know, Oh okay, 102 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 2: So our head of creative and marketing and Comms is 103 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 2: based in New Zealand, and so in New Zealand, they 104 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 2: don't have the Morning ten pinanential hot springs. I mean, 105 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 2: they have a few art springs. But so this particular 106 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 2: team day we're having, we were starting at one of 107 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 2: the team's parents' house. We had a big breakfast there. 108 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 2: They've got a beautiful view of the ocean. Then we 109 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 2: headed down to the Hot Springs and we spent the 110 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 2: day just relaxing there. And Ellie from New Zealand, she's like, 111 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 2: so it's kind of like a bath, like a hot bar. 112 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 2: We just all sit in it. And as I described, 113 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 2: I'm like, gosh, it does sound a bit weird, but 114 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 2: when you get to the Hot Springs, it's not that weird. 115 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 2: And it was super relaxing. And then there was sort 116 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 2: of an opt in dinner if anyone wanted to go 117 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 2: to that night, and most people just hung around, like 118 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 2: genuinely just wanted to connect further. That was, you know, 119 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 2: one day, you know, other days we look for an 120 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 2: activity to do together. You know, I don't think any 121 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 2: of our team will be listening to this, but next 122 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 2: week where some of our creative team are taking us 123 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 2: all through kind of like a art paint session, a 124 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 2: whole bunch of cool activities which will make all non 125 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 2: creative people a little uncomfortable, but we will have a 126 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 2: good few laughs and then and I think it's a 127 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 2: pretty good lunch lined up. We genuinely are trying to 128 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 2: create space for longer conversations. I think the office is 129 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 2: good for the Hey, Hey, Hey, you good. I'm good. Yeah, 130 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: I'm good. Are you good? Mama again, I'm okay. But 131 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 2: what the office isn't necessarily grateful is those deeper, longer 132 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 2: format conversations that come when you're walking together somewhere, you know, 133 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 2: through the bush, or you're sitting by a beach, or 134 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 2: you're you know, at a luncheon an informal setting. And 135 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 2: so we are trying to create those and think about them, 136 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 2: and we're testing and learning and taking feedback. And thankfully 137 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 2: we haven't missed yet on any of our team days. 138 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 2: But if we do have some missions, we'll refine and 139 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 2: find better ways forward. 140 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: Now I've heard that's something that you have changed over 141 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: the years about how you work is being more protective 142 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: of your time and perhaps getting better at saying no. 143 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: And I'd love to know how have you got better 144 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: at saying no? 145 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 2: Wow? Look, I still find it hard. You know. There 146 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 2: was a time where I would just say I was 147 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 2: a yes man, yes to everyone and everything. And actually 148 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 2: the deeper work I did with a counselor and psychologist, 149 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 2: which is a big story in and of itself, but 150 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 2: partly because I was the guy that was never going 151 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 2: to do that because I'm not broken and I don't 152 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 2: need that. But I'm so glad I did the work 153 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 2: and went deep because actually in me, so it turns out, 154 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 2: which was probably obvious to my friends around me, but 155 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 2: one of the things I've struggled with is a fear 156 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 2: of rejection, like people rejecting me. And as I understood that, 157 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 2: it was like, wow, so it's not just that I 158 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 2: say yes to everything's there's a deeper part of me 159 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 2: that's trying to like, you know, not be rejected and 160 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 2: be accepted by people. And oh man, so I actually 161 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 2: had to do some pretty deep work on like but 162 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 2: why do I say yes? And why do I struggle 163 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 2: so much with saying no? And on realizing that, coupled 164 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 2: with a mentor said to me, Daniel, every time you 165 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 2: say yes to something, you are saying no to something, now, 166 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 2: he goes. When you commit to that next talk or 167 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 2: you commit to that next project, you know, do you 168 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 2: pick up the phone to your wife and your bartner 169 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 2: and say, hey, Justine, just want you to know I 170 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,079 Speaker 2: want to say no to spending time with you because 171 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 2: I'm saying yes to this other thing because you don't 172 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 2: do that, and I don't. I don't do that, and 173 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 2: I never did that, but some of these realizations of well, 174 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 2: that's actually the trade off here, when you are over committing, 175 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 2: you are actually kind of forsaking some of the stuff 176 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 2: that you would and I would say is the most 177 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 2: important thing. So, in answer to your question, how to 178 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 2: get better at saying no, it started with some pretty 179 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 2: deep work and realizations and then a resolve that no 180 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 2: is one of the most important words I can say, 181 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 2: and I need to be careful when and how I 182 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 2: say it, but it's one of the most valuable things 183 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 2: to protecting myself, my family and the vision that we're 184 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 2: ultimately fighting for. And one of the great challenges in 185 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 2: business and entrepreneur organizations is you just tend to see 186 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 2: opportunities and want to chase them all. But every great 187 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 2: innovation and great breakthrough came from hyper focus, and that 188 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 2: hyper focus is essentially the ability to say a lot 189 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 2: of no's. And our history is marked with some pretty 190 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 2: big launchers and some pretty cool successful things. But I 191 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 2: look back and I'm like, yeah, but we said no 192 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 2: to so many other things to chase that one. Yes, 193 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 2: So I think it's a mindset, it's a culture, and 194 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 2: then it's an accountability like you've got to build a 195 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 2: team and mentors and kind of people around you who 196 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 2: are willing to challenge you on your schedule and what 197 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 2: it looks like. 198 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: So for you personally, have you developed like heuristics or 199 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: rules to help you make quicker decisions on what to 200 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: say yes to? Is no too? 201 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:06,719 Speaker 2: Yes? Yeah? I have? And what are they? Well? So good, Look, 202 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 2: I'll give you. I'll give you a few big ones, 203 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 2: you know, And I think this is helpful because otherwise 204 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 2: you end up on a case by case basis and 205 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:19,679 Speaker 2: it's so stressful. So we have different matrix for different things. So, 206 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 2: for example, events and speaking at events, I do a 207 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 2: lot of speaking, but it's probably one to every Look. 208 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 2: I don't just want to say a big number to 209 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 2: sound good. There's just a lot of inquiries. There's a 210 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 2: lot of like could you be here? Could you be here? 211 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 2: Could you be here? And so we've kind of worked 212 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 2: out a matrix that's not perfect, but it helps us 213 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 2: sort through what are the events we think we should 214 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 2: be at and why. And I'd say that has ebbed 215 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 2: and flowed based on our business and personal objectives over 216 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 2: the years. And so that one's an interesting kind of 217 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 2: moving target, but it exists, and then we have a 218 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 2: team who look through it. And then ultimately, if it's 219 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 2: kind of an on theline decision, I'll probably get to 220 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 2: look at it and say yeah, actually let's go, or 221 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 2: it's a no go on that one. 222 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: What are some examples can I ask of what's in 223 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: that matrix? 224 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 2: So look, it depends on time. So how much time 225 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 2: am I putting towards the external so speaking? And so 226 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 2: there's been some seasons if I look back at twenty 227 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 2: eighteen and nineteen, where it was basically, no, I'm pulling back. 228 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 2: We have a lot of work to do internally. Once 229 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 2: we get that right and we're comfortable, then we can 230 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 2: go external again. So there was a season where the 231 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,439 Speaker 2: only talks that would come through would be something that's 232 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 2: like a world forum or an industry forum. I think 233 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen there were four talks that got through 234 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 2: the gate, which in prior, if I went back to 235 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 2: seventeen and sixteen, I was doing one hundred and fifty talks, 236 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 2: and that was yeah, we were launching that, we were 237 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 2: launch books, and the book thing was going crazy, and 238 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 2: I was saying yes to so much and actually they 239 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 2: were the years that kind of okay, we're goin, We're 240 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 2: got to rain this in a bit, because yes, you 241 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 2: can do it, you can do anything. You can do anything, 242 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 2: you just can't do everything. And so yes, we were 243 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 2: getting some big wins externally, but then some of the 244 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 2: internal work, which is part of what I bring to 245 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 2: the table, was it wasn't going as well as it 246 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 2: should have could have been, and you know, and so 247 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 2: then we dialed that back. I think twenty nineteen those 248 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,599 Speaker 2: four talks is an interesting one and maybe someone in 249 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 2: our teams, like you did six, so it's somewhere there. 250 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 2: But there was only a couple of big ones. But 251 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 2: each of them work global forums. They were really unique 252 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 2: opportunities almost arguably once in a lifetime. One of them 253 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 2: is like twenty thousand people in the room in Germany 254 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 2: from one hundred and sixty countries, and you know, it's 255 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 2: hard to have a matrix that doesn't say yes. So 256 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 2: that one, particularly when you're thinking, we are thinking about 257 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 2: global expansion and so that was, you know, really critical 258 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 2: for that. So look, that's some of how how I 259 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 2: do that. I think on a week to week level, 260 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 2: there's some really interesting kind of rules in place that 261 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 2: and you know, very strong guidelines that have helped. And 262 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 2: one of those is every week I have a Blue 263 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 2: Sky Day. And that's just a name. I kind of 264 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 2: threw on having it one full day that's blocked out, 265 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 2: so there are no meetings. I don't check emails or slack, 266 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 2: I don't get I don't answer calls unless it's from 267 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 2: a particular team member and I know, like, okay, we've 268 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 2: really got a problem. I have to answer that call. 269 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 2: But that's actually about trying to create space to work 270 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 2: on thank you, and not just in it. You know 271 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 2: some I mean, this is this is for me if 272 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 2: you want to know practically what it looks like. I 273 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 2: was inspired by a guy who he ran thirty companies, 274 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 2: and I was like, what the thirty company? I can't 275 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 2: barely do one? Like what are you talking about? And 276 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 2: I was trying to dig into, like how do you 277 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 2: do it? And he has a day a week completely free, 278 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 2: and for him, I'm like, what do you do? He's like, well, 279 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 2: I get on my jet ski and I go out 280 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 2: to this island. I was like, okay, okay, yeah, like 281 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 2: we'd all do that if we had a jet ski 282 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 2: and an island, we could go to. But he was 283 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 2: saying that for him, unless he has time to for him, 284 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 2: it was quite a personal day. Like it was quite 285 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 2: he had meditation and prayer and he had time of 286 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 2: like problem solving and ideation. And look, I thought it 287 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 2: sounded a little spooky but kind of cool. I ended 288 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 2: up climbing a mountain one day to the day off 289 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 2: in my head it wasn't really work and I climb 290 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 2: a mountain and it's like I felt like I unlocked 291 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 2: a secret, a secret that the shoe fits for me. 292 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 2: So I aim for a day a week now. In 293 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 2: practice I think fortnightly it's it's a full day, and 294 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 2: on the other week it can end up being about 295 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 2: a half day. I try and get out. So Upper 296 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 2: Mountain for me, outdoors works and I get out from 297 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 2: the day to day grind. And for me, this is 298 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 2: a space to dream. It's a space to write. Sometimes 299 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 2: I like I write out my thoughts and like dear diary, 300 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 2: I quit, you know, like I quit. I hate this. 301 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 2: I just hate it. I can't right. So it's not 302 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 2: it's not beautiful. It's a very raw. But then other 303 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 2: days I'm like ah, and an idea will drop and 304 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 2: in that moment, it's the idea is perfect, and then 305 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 2: you come back to the real world and it's not perfect, 306 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 2: or actually come back to the real world and with 307 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 2: a bit of refinement, it is that next breakthrough step forward. 308 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 2: Sometimes I write on those days and write content and 309 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 2: you know, catch up with a mentor you know, either 310 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 2: digitally or in person, and try and get out of 311 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,359 Speaker 2: the bubble of thank you just get a different perspective. 312 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 2: And these days have become so valuable that when people 313 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 2: are like, oh, I don't know, but you're very busy, 314 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 2: how do you justify it? And now I'm like, well, yeah, 315 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 2: it's hard to explain, but once you've put in a 316 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 2: rhythm and a practice, it's easy to say, I don't 317 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 2: think I could do what I do without it, because 318 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 2: everyone wants to know, man, how do you cope with 319 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:27,959 Speaker 2: the challenges of BAU and dream and think about the future. 320 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 2: It's like, well, I create time for it, and there's 321 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 2: like a rule, you know, and that's when I switch 322 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 2: my headspace and I find it really hard to do 323 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 2: every week and the night before I literally cancel nearly. 324 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 2: I'm like, I just know there's so much going on 325 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 2: in the factory, in this and supply chain. But it's 326 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 2: become a commitment and I have done seasons where I've 327 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 2: skipped it. I'm like that stuff, it's stupid, it doesn't work. 328 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 2: And I've seen myself as a leader kind of crumble. 329 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 2: I think for me, this is the shoe fits and 330 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,439 Speaker 2: everyone needs to figure out what works for them. But 331 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 2: there is nothing like creative creating space. 332 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, so on these blue sky days, are there certain 333 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: questions that you've found helpful to pose to yourself for 334 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: certain processes that you go through, you know, aside from 335 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: trying to get out in nature and be removed from 336 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 1: digital distractions. 337 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 2: So look, I one of the things I do pretty 338 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 2: regularly is I pick up I have kind of this 339 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 2: master timeline, which is the big rocks where are we heading? 340 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 2: And I look at it and I review it, and 341 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 2: I go, Okay, are we focusing on the right things? 342 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 2: You know? Are we on track? And I'm not. This 343 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 2: is not a super deep dive into the detail, but 344 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:55,640 Speaker 2: you know, it is helpful to zoom out because we're 345 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 2: pretty ambitious. So we've got a lot of big projects. 346 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 2: But then, like any ambitious project, you can you can 347 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 2: almost die or get lost in the detail and so 348 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 2: you know, four days a week I'm in the detail, 349 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 2: and sometimes you don't know which way is up, and 350 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 2: so I find that really helpful to zoom out. I 351 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 2: also find a blank piece of paper very helpful. One 352 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 2: of the activities I did it this week is I 353 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 2: wrote a list between now and the end of the 354 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 2: year for all the things I think are really important 355 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 2: to be done. Now. I've already got less, I've got 356 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 2: a sign a less, I've got lists on less. There 357 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 2: are like, arguably, I don't need to do this, it's 358 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 2: already there. But I find it personally, the blank piece 359 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 2: of paper. It can be at times quite daunting, but 360 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 2: it's also full of opportunity. And so by writing out 361 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 2: that list, I sat back and I would have spent 362 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 2: an hour and it. You know, if you look at 363 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 2: the list, that took me an hour. No, it was 364 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 2: the consideration, it was the wondering, it was the is 365 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 2: that really important? And by the end of us really 366 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 2: I really I thought, Wow, that's I get that done. 367 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 2: That's really that's really really remarkable, And I think and 368 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 2: then I compared it to the list of everything we're 369 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 2: doing in the detail. Later I was like, yep, cool, 370 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 2: I haven't missed anything, but I actually there's a whole 371 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 2: bunch of stuff that I wonder is it really important? 372 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 2: And can we push that further down the track? And 373 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 2: I think in the early days I would never do this, 374 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 2: And so the result of that was an organization and 375 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 2: a team stressed out of their mind because everyone's trying 376 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 2: to achieve so many different things and everything's a priority, 377 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 2: and there wasn't enough work from me in prioritization of projects. 378 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 2: But there was a lot of vision and a lot 379 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 2: of here's where we're going, here's how exciting everything is, 380 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 2: and naturally everyone wanted to do that, and so so yeah, 381 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 2: look that that is something that I do, and then 382 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 2: I encourage leaders and manages to do it too in 383 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 2: their own projects that they're running the things that they're across, 384 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 2: you know, And so that's you know, one of the practices. 385 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 1: We will be back with Daniel soon talking about the 386 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: mentors in his life and how he aims to get 387 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: the most out of the sessions with those mentors. If 388 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: you're looking for more tips to improve the way that 389 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: you work, I write a short fortnightly newsletter that contains 390 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: three cool things that I've discovered that helped me work better, 391 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: ranging from software and gadgets that I'm loving through to 392 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: interesting research findings. You can sign up for that at 393 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: Howiwork dot cod That's how I work dot co. I 394 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 1: know that you're a big believer in the power of mentoring, 395 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: and I believe you've got one one main mentor that 396 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 1: you speak with pretty regularly. Is that right? 397 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Look, I do believe in mentoring. You know, 398 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 2: it is it's like time travel. I mean it is like, 399 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 2: you know, you sit down someone for lunch or coffee, 400 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 2: they tell you one thing and you're like, oh, thank you, 401 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 2: But that could have been a decade for them in 402 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 2: learning or a lifetime and I think if we truly 403 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 2: understand the weight of that, And actually that's the hardest thing. 404 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 2: If you're being mentored or you're listening to someone, they'll 405 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 2: say a flippant statement, there's a lifetime's revelation you because 406 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 2: you haven't lived it could be like, oh, yeah, sounds interesting, 407 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 2: And I think for me it's like trying to wade 408 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 2: through my initial reaction to like, what's that person's lived experience. 409 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 2: Why are they're saying that, you know, can that apply 410 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 2: to me? So it's like time travel. I think it's 411 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 2: I think it's it's it's incredible. So that's part one. 412 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 2: Look over the years, I've had different mentoring relationships. There's 413 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 2: definitely been one who's been you know, buying the scenes, 414 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 2: very very constant, private and my favorite conversations that we've 415 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 2: had over the year years is and he kind of 416 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 2: makes a note of saying, Daniel, I'm not I'm not like, 417 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 2: I'm not here for thank you, and I'm not here 418 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 2: for what you achieves. This is about you and I 419 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 2: just I believe in you. And and he's got incredible 420 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 2: business background I'm really grateful for it provides technical support, 421 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 2: but really a lot of it is that that emotional encouragement, 422 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 2: the challenging different perspectives. I think if you interviewed him, 423 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 2: he'd be like, oh no, I'm not sure why we 424 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 2: catch up. I don't see what the you know, the 425 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 2: value is because he's a very humble man. But even 426 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 2: that humility, I've learned a lot from my dad as well. 427 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 2: Whilst you know he doesn't run, you know what we 428 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 2: do and it's it's it's less about you know, some 429 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 2: of the technical side. I think I've really realized the 430 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 2: value of the soft stuff and the encouragement and the 431 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 2: challenging of that, and you know that's been valuable. And 432 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 2: then you've got to balance it up with some technical advisors, 433 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 2: to which have epped and flowed with the over the years. 434 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: How do you prepare for a session with a mentor 435 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: to get the most out of it? 436 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 2: This? Look, this is a good question, and I will 437 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 2: put my hand up to say that I am high 438 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 2: on the spontaneous side, as I said earlier, and so 439 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 2: I sometimes have this moment ten minutes in going Danielle, 440 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 2: come on, you should have, like you should have forbat, 441 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 2: a list of questions I have over the years built 442 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 2: to an approach where I'll go in with a commitment 443 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 2: to be transparent and to share where I'm really at 444 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 2: and to share the stuff that's really weighing me down. 445 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 2: That's hot, that sounds good. You know, Vulnerability is always 446 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 2: an interesting thing because you know there can be an 447 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 2: insecurity of like, oh gosh. But then if you always 448 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 2: are letting someone in on the heavy stuff or your 449 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 2: your worst stuff or the biggest challenges your time five 450 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 2: catch ups, seem they're gonna think this is too much. 451 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 2: I've got to get out and so so you know 452 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 2: an answer. So then there's a there's a sense of 453 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 2: or do I just put up a good front, but 454 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 2: I wanted to get the most out. I'm wanting to 455 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 2: be transparent about Hey, we've only got a few minutes. 456 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 2: What's your perspective on this stuff? I'm truly really wrestling 457 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,440 Speaker 2: with So that's one of the things. And then the 458 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 2: other thing is I'm always curious of people's story and 459 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 2: why and what they learn and their experiences. And I'm 460 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,439 Speaker 2: a I just love stories, and so I have asked, 461 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 2: you know, questions and what happened then, and you know back, 462 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 2: you know, when you're balancing family and you were going 463 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 2: public at the same time, Like, tell me more about that, 464 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 2: and you know, I listen and I feel like I learn. 465 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 2: And so that's my approach. It's a vulnerability. Curiosity brought 466 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 2: my two leads going in. 467 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: I imagine that you have also played the role of mentor, 468 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: like officially or officially to many people over the years. 469 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: What's some of the advice that you found yourself sharing 470 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: most often? 471 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 2: The one thing I've shared, which which took me a 472 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 2: while to figure out, was like, good, good job putting 473 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,159 Speaker 2: your hand up for this seeking out advice, right, wanting 474 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 2: to be mentored, that's awesome, But you need to search 475 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 2: for the gold from any mentoring type or advisory type scenario. 476 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 2: So search for the gold. And I think in gold 477 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 2: mining there's the dirt to gold ratio is interesting. And 478 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 2: even though I would like to propose, yeah, look everything 479 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 2: I drop is gold, it's not, and it's certainly not 480 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 2: gold for that person I had these. Really there's two 481 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 2: mentals I had at one particular point in the journey, 482 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,679 Speaker 2: and I never forget that the deeply uncomfortable feeling of 483 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 2: taking one challenge and one thought to both of them separately, 484 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 2: and they both had the exact opposite advice and they 485 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,479 Speaker 2: were both, in their own right incredible people history. And 486 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 2: I was so stressed, and that there probably speaks to 487 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 2: the fear of rejection thing, but like I was, so, 488 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,919 Speaker 2: I'm like no, like, how could this be happening? And 489 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 2: it wasn't until I kind of stepped back and you know, 490 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 2: had some other advice around this where and actually a 491 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 2: mentor did say, is it you cannot cut and paste 492 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 2: everything you hear because this is someone else's experience, their journey. 493 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 2: You are on your own path. You are on your 494 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 2: own journey, And as a rule, I would say to 495 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 2: someone you're looking for the ten to twenty percent of gold, 496 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 2: you don't have to apply one hundred percent of what 497 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,239 Speaker 2: you hear. Now, that is really tough when there is 498 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 2: power and balance is not the right term, but there's 499 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,360 Speaker 2: certainly usually an experience in balance, Like, you know, how 500 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 2: could I sit with someone who's run a company, grown 501 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 2: it to billions of dollars, tens of thousands of staff 502 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 2: and not apply what they're saying like that. It feels 503 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 2: arrogant or disrespectful, But it's looking for the thread that 504 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 2: applies to what you do and being okay to leave 505 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,719 Speaker 2: some things on the table. And so I think that 506 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 2: takes great wisdom and humility of someone listening, because you 507 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 2: have to be okay to catch up with that mentor 508 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 2: and be like, yeah, so look, I didn't. I didn't 509 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 2: go that way. And actually there was one time I 510 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 2: caught up with a mentor years ago. We caught up. 511 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,919 Speaker 2: I left that catch up, and I so didn't like 512 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 2: the advice that I in my mind, I was like, 513 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 2: I'm never catching up with that person again. And that's 514 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 2: very rude to say out loud, but I was just ticked. 515 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 2: I was like, you don't you don't get it, you 516 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 2: don't get it. I caught up with that person about 517 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 2: a year later, and I confessed, I said, hey, last 518 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 2: time we caught up, I said, I never want to 519 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 2: catch up with you again. And I know I've sort 520 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 2: of been quiet, but I yeah, I went. I went 521 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 2: sort of the opposite to your advice, and it didn't 522 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,719 Speaker 2: work out, and you were right and I was really wrong. 523 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 2: And that was a really interesting journey in and of itself. 524 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 2: And I would just encourage, you know, encourage people like 525 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 2: it's what I did wrong. Then I probably needed to 526 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 2: learn some stuff. I probably needed some very good humbling 527 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 2: as a young leader. But what I should have done 528 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 2: is stayed in contact over that year and actually gone 529 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 2: that journey of you know how I'm going a different way. 530 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 2: Can we walk this out together, you know? And so 531 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 2: anyway I'm going down a rabbit one. Now. 532 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 3: That's a great lesson to learn, though, Daniel. 533 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: Now, for people that want to connect with you or 534 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: thank you or both, what is the best way for listeners. 535 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 3: To do that? 536 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 2: Oh, such a good question. I mean, thank you is 537 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 2: that you know website thank you dot co. You'll learn 538 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 2: heaps more follow us on all our social channels. Thank you, 539 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 2: oz on, Instagram, Facebook, kind of everything, LinkedIn connecting with 540 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 2: me apologizes if it seems hard to anyone, I have 541 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 2: spent the last year off socials and that has been 542 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 2: an experiment of great joy and challenge, if I'm honest, 543 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 2: But it's been about trying to cut out a whole 544 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 2: bunch of digital distraction and deep work. And anyway, I'm 545 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 2: not resolved yet on exactly what we're going to do 546 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 2: with the whole challenge we have with social and also 547 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 2: still being connected and relevant. So I'm a little hard 548 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 2: to get hold of. But you know on LinkedIn, you 549 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 2: know I do eventually eventually get there if you're interested. 550 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 3: But yeah, well, Daniel, I have loved this chat, and 551 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 3: I'm deeply appreciative that you said yes to the interview 552 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 3: when I asked, so thank you for being wonderful and 553 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 3: sharing so many gems of wisdom. 554 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 2: Hey, thanks so much, Amantha appreciate it. 555 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: Gosh, I find Daniel's enthusiasm can tageous. One of the 556 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: things I took away from our chat is about gold mining. 557 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 1: When you sit down with a mentor. I've mentioned on 558 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 1: the show that I have a couple of peer mentoring groups, 559 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: both of whom I love very much. 560 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 2: But it's really only five. 561 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: Percent of what gets said in our three ish hour 562 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: catchups that I go away and implement or that fundamentally 563 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: changes my thinking about something that I'm working through in 564 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: my life. Daniel highlighting this in our chat made me 565 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: more confident in going it's okay. I'm not being lazy 566 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: or missing a whole bunch of stuff. It is okay 567 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: if it's only five to ten percent, that is the 568 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: stuff that changes me. How I Work is produced by 569 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: Inventing with production support from Dead Set Studios. The producer 570 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: for this episode was Liam Riordan, and thank you to 571 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: Matt Nimba, who does the audio mix for every episode 572 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: and makes everything sound so much better than it would 573 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: have otherwise. See you next time.