1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 1: Bunjelung Caalcuttin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily Os. It's Monday, 8 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 2: the seventeenth of October. I'm Sam, I'm Zarah. 9 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 3: I will not be lectured about sexism and misogyny by 10 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 3: this man. 11 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: Julia Gillard's misogyny speech is one of the most memorable 12 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 2: moments of her political. 13 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 4: Career, not now, not ever. 14 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 2: But as we're exploring over in The Mirror, our other 15 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 2: miniseries podcast from the Daily Os, there's a lot of 16 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 2: complexities in looking back at it from ten years on. 17 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 2: In today's Deep, I'm going to be talking to TDA 18 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 2: editor and the host of The Mirror, Billy Fitzsimon's on 19 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 2: what she learned from putting together the podcast series. First, Aara, 20 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:11,279 Speaker 2: what is making headlines this morning? 21 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 4: Sixty Australian Defense Force personnel have been deployed to Victoria 22 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 4: to assist in the emergency response caused by that flooding 23 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 4: that we have been speaking about for the last couple 24 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 4: of days. They're also there to prepare communities for further flooding. Unfortunately, 25 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 4: floodwaters are expected to continue rising in communities along the 26 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 4: Golbin River. 27 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 2: At least eleven people have been killed after a gunman 28 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 2: opened fire at a Russian military training facility where civilian 29 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 2: reserves were preparing to fight in Ukraine. Russian authority said 30 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 2: the men who were quote neutralized were from a former 31 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 2: Soviet republic and labeled the incident a terrorist attack. Two 32 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 2: hundred and twenty thousand Russian reserves have already been deployed 33 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 2: to fight in Ukraine. 34 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 4: Two climate protesters from campaign group Just Stop Oil have 35 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 4: been charged with criminal damage offenses after throwing cans of 36 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 4: soup on Van Gogh's Sunflowers at a London gallery. The 37 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 4: gallery confirmed minor damage to the frame, but the painting 38 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 4: itself was unharmed due to its glazing. The protesters, who 39 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 4: were aged twenty and twenty one, have pleaded not guilty. 40 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 2: And Today's Good News seven adult lions and two cubs 41 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 2: have been successfully airlifted from a Ukrainian zoo to safety 42 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 2: in a Colorado wildlife sanctuary in what organizers are calling 43 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 2: the largest ore zone rescue of lions in history. The 44 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 2: lions had been urgently relocated to Moldova from Ukraine by 45 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 2: road in May whilst waiting for their emergency travel permits. 46 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 2: A bit of a different deep dive for everyone this morning, 47 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 2: I'm joined by our editor Billy Fitzsimon's and Billy I 48 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:59,519 Speaker 2: wanted to talk to you about The Mirror. It's come 49 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 2: out last week and it's the number one news podcast 50 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 2: in the country. 51 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 3: Julia Gillard's misogyny speech. I will not be lectured about 52 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 3: sexism and misogyny by this man. The moment Australia's first 53 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 3: and only female Prime minister said. 54 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 4: Enough, not now, not ever. 55 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 3: When Gillard said to look in the mirror that day, 56 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 3: that's what he needs. It wasn't just one man she 57 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 3: was putting on notice. 58 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 5: It was all of us. 59 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 2: The second episode drops today. What has this podcast meant 60 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 2: to you? 61 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 3: Well, for me, I think you know. In the past 62 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 3: year there has been so much discussion in Australia about 63 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 3: women in politics and it feels like there's been this 64 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 3: real movement for women to be treated right in politics. 65 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 3: And it was actually a conversation that you and I 66 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,119 Speaker 3: had Sam ten months ago or something now, and we're 67 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 3: talking about how it felt like there was this real 68 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 3: kind of reckoning and how it was coming up to 69 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 3: the ten year anniversary of Julia Gillard's misogyny speech, and 70 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 3: you know, reflecting back on how the media treated Julia Gillard, 71 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 3: who was our first and only female prime minister. And 72 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 3: I think that for our generation. I'm twenty five, you're 73 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 3: twenty seven, twenty seven, I think that for our generation. 74 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 3: You know, if you weren't really politically in tune with 75 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 3: the politics of the day, you may have missed the 76 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 3: context that that speech happened in and what led up 77 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 3: to that moment. And I think for me, even in 78 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 3: speaking with friends, you know, speaking about how she was treated, 79 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 3: it's quite easy to forget, and I think that we 80 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 3: shouldn't forget. 81 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 2: So you spend a lot of your day looking at 82 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 2: the news of the day as it comes in and 83 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 2: editing the pieces so that they're ready to go for 84 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 2: the wide world. This is a very different task for 85 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 2: you as a journalist. You had to look back on 86 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 2: an event from ten years ago you were fifteen. Where 87 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 2: did did you start in trying to work out how 88 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 2: to approach this topic. 89 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 3: Well, I think we didn't just want to start with 90 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 3: the misogyny speech. We wanted to start with the day 91 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 3: she became Prime minister and how at the time that 92 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 3: was actually quite a positive conversation Australia was saying, you know, 93 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 3: we've got our first female prime minister. But then that 94 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 3: conversation very quickly turned and so that's where we started. 95 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 3: We started at what was the media commentary at the 96 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 3: time and in the two years that she was Prime 97 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 3: minister prior to the misogyny speech. How was she treated? 98 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 2: Were you surprised by her treatment? 99 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 3: For me, it doesn't matter how many times you go 100 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 3: back and listen to what was said about Julia Gillard, 101 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 3: you're always surprised. It just seems so inconceivable to me 102 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 3: that this is how she was treated. But for me, 103 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 3: I think the moment that really took my breath away 104 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 3: was it was actually after the misogyny speech and there 105 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 3: was a Liberal National Party fundraiser at I think it 106 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 3: was Sydney University and there was a menu and on 107 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 3: that it said something like Julia Gillard quail, which was 108 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 3: described as small breast, thick thighs, and then something else 109 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 3: that I honestly don't even think is worth repeating. And 110 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 3: they say that that was just a joke and it 111 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 3: was never circulated, but the fact that that was ever 112 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 3: created is just so shocking to me. And this was 113 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,799 Speaker 3: only ten years ago. It wasn't even that long ago. 114 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 3: And this is how we treated the first female prime minister. 115 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 3: And I think it's important for us to look at 116 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 3: that and look at it through a critical lens. You know, 117 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 3: that's how we learn and I hope that when we 118 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 3: do have another female prime minister, we will have learned 119 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 3: from that. 120 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 2: That's an interesting point. Do you think that if Julia 121 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 2: Gillard was Prime minister right now her treatment would be different. 122 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 3: I think it's so hard to say. And probably no 123 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 3: matter who the first female prime minister was, something like 124 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 3: this was going to happen. But I think an interesting 125 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 3: comparison is that a big thing about Julia Gillard is 126 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 3: that she wasn't married, and she was our first prime 127 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 3: minister who wasn't married, and there was so much commentary about, 128 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 3: you know, whether her partner would move into the lodge 129 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 3: with her because they weren't married. And today we have 130 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 3: Prime Minister Anthony Alberizi. He has a partner of two 131 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 3: years and they're not married. And I don't know about you, Sam, 132 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 3: but I haven't really heard that much commentary about it. 133 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 2: It definitely hasn't been part of the media conversation. 134 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 3: It's something that now we don't even blink at really, 135 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 3: and so I think that that's a really interesting comparison 136 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 3: that we look at in the mirror. 137 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 2: So what are listener's listening to today is so last week, 138 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 2: if you go back and listen to episode one, it's 139 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 2: very much talking about the lead up to the misogyny speech. 140 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 2: What type of things are we looking at in today's episode? 141 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 3: So today we look at what happened after the misogyny speech. 142 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 3: Because it was covered worldwide. We look back at it 143 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 3: now and we go it went viral. It was this 144 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 3: massive story and that's true, it was and it was 145 00:07:58,400 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 3: covered in the New York Times. You know, it was 146 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 3: covered in India. It was a massive story. But back 147 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 3: home in Australia, the press gallery was way more focused 148 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 3: on the political context of the time. And you'll hear 149 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 3: what that political context was in the in the episode, 150 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 3: and then moving past that, we look at how Julia 151 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 3: Gillard's prime minister ship ended, and not only that, but 152 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 3: in the period between the misogyny speech and then when 153 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 3: Julia Gillard lost the prime ministership, how there was even 154 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 3: more misogyny after the misogyny speech. 155 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 2: Would you run for prime minister? 156 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 4: Ah? 157 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 3: Interesting question, I might deflect it that. I asked Tanya Plivisek, 158 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 3: who is much more likely to ever be a prime minister, 159 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 3: and she said that it didn't deter her. 160 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 5: Look, I think Julia's she definitely copped a lot of 161 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 5: abuse because she was a woman. I think the fact 162 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 5: that she has paved the war will make it easier 163 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 5: for the next woman because we have had the chances 164 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 5: of country to reflect on how much of the bad 165 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 5: behavior related to some people's inability to see a woman 166 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 5: in a position of power. 167 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 3: Is it fair to say that her experience hasn't deterred you, though? 168 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 5: I think it's I think it's really important that Julia's 169 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 5: experience doesn't deter any woman who's interested in a life 170 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 5: in politics from taking it on, because it is an 171 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 5: incredibly rewarding career. It's an opportunity to do good on 172 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 5: a massive scale, and I wouldn't want anyone to be 173 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 5: deterred from that, and I don't think Julia would either. 174 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 2: We're going to take a short break. We'll be right back, 175 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 2: So any good journalist would take this opportunity to re 176 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 2: ask that question, though, Billy, and as my editor, you'd 177 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 2: expect me to go again? Would you run for prime Minister? 178 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 3: I love my job too much. I'm not leaving sad. 179 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 2: I didn't realize we had a politician as an editor. 180 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 2: But Billy, where can people listen to The Mirror if 181 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 2: they want to jump on it after this episode? 182 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 3: You can listen wherever you get your podcast. Just type 183 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 3: in the Mirror and it should be there right in 184 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 3: this app exactly. Thanks so much for joining us on 185 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 3: the Daily Ods. There's three episodes of The Mirror to 186 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 3: come Today's and then two more and the four part 187 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 3: series will be a bit of a time capsule for 188 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 3: Australian political history and personally speaking as the co founder 189 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 3: of the Jali Ods, it's one of the most proud 190 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 3: moments I've had in being involved with this company. 191 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 2: It'll be back to usual programming tomorrow with an explainer 192 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 2: about what's happening in the news, check out the Mirror 193 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 2: and have a fantastic start to the week.