Speaker 1: Already and this this is the Daily Off. This is
Speaker 1: the Daily OS.
Speaker 2: Oh, now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to
Speaker 2: the Daily OS. It's Thursday, the twenty second of May.
Speaker 2: I'm Billy Fitzsimon.
Speaker 1: And I'm Sam Bekazlowski.
Speaker 2: In a surprise political development this week, the National Party
Speaker 2: announced it is splitting from its long term partner, the
Speaker 2: Liberal Party, effectively ending the coalition that has been a
Speaker 2: cornerstone of Australian politics for decades. This decision marks only
Speaker 2: the third time in the coalition's eighty year history that
Speaker 2: the parties have formally separated. So what happens now? Who
Speaker 2: now makes up the opposition? And does it just guarantee
Speaker 2: Labor will be elected again at the next election. Well
Speaker 2: answer all of your questions in today's.
Speaker 1: Episode, Billy. How fun is it just trying to wait
Speaker 1: for a week where Australian politics becomes a little quieter.
Speaker 2: It's very busy at the moment.
Speaker 1: It just keeps getting delayed. We had the election a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago. Then we are almost as busy
Speaker 1: politically as we were during the election time. And that's
Speaker 1: because there's some really fundamental changes to Australian politics underway.
Speaker 1: But why don't we start with the basics. Talk me
Speaker 1: through exactly when you say coalition, what exactly that means.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is an interesting question. I always think about
Speaker 2: the fact that Australia is often described as a two
Speaker 2: party system, but that's just not true because we have
Speaker 2: the Labor Party, which is a single party. But then
Speaker 2: we have the Coalition and that is not a single party,
Speaker 2: that is actually two parties. Well, actually it is more
Speaker 2: than two parties. It's a group of parties that make
Speaker 2: up the coalition. Mainly it is the Liberal Party and
Speaker 2: the National Party.
Speaker 1: So we basically have a two family system.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's a great way to look at it. So
Speaker 2: the coalition is a formal alliance primarily, like I said,
Speaker 2: between the Liberal Party and the National Party. Now, this
Speaker 2: partnership has been a mainstay in Australian politics, like I said,
Speaker 2: for decades, with those two parties joining forces to govern together.
Speaker 2: So if after an election they win enough seats to govern,
Speaker 2: then they do that together in the House of Reps.
Speaker 2: But even if they don't win enough seats, usually they
Speaker 2: still come together in opposition and form a group to
Speaker 2: be the official opposition in Parliament. Now, It's been fairly
Speaker 2: well documented that at the most recent election things did
Speaker 2: not go well for the Coalition. I think it was
Speaker 2: one of their worst losses in recent history. The exact numbers,
Speaker 2: so Labour won ninety three seats while the Coalition together
Speaker 2: secured just forty three seats. So that's a fifty seat difference.
Speaker 2: That is massive.
Speaker 1: And remember you need that seventy six seat majority to govern,
Speaker 1: so to get ninety three means you are well and
Speaker 1: truly with the mandate of the Australian people to govern
Speaker 1: a landslide under forty three with two parties combined in
Speaker 1: this coalition, clearly something has kind of gone wrong in
Speaker 1: their messaging to the Australian people. What led to the
Speaker 1: breakup though? I mean, I feel like I'm sitting through
Speaker 1: the notebook and the language that everyone's using is about
Speaker 1: breaking up and relationships, and we're on the break. Take
Speaker 1: me back to the beginning of this love story and
Speaker 1: where it started to break down.
Speaker 2: So I think it started to break down after the
Speaker 2: Australian people basically, like you said, rejected what they were offering.
Speaker 2: And so it's been what three weeks now since the election,
Speaker 2: and then on Tuesday, Nationals leader David littl prod made
Speaker 2: the announcement via a press conference that the Nationals would
Speaker 2: be ending their formal partnership with the Liberal Party. Often
Speaker 2: in breakups, you say who was the one who ended it?
Speaker 2: Very much the Nationals. They were the one who ended
Speaker 2: this relationship. You're right that everyone's been talking about it
Speaker 2: as a breakup, even the Nationals in their press conference
Speaker 2: they kept comparing this to a breakup. Fascinating, but they
Speaker 2: said that this is just a temporary break by no means,
Speaker 2: does this seem like it's going to be a permanent
Speaker 2: breakup of the coalition.
Speaker 1: I'm really interested in you saying that it could just
Speaker 1: be temporary. Yes, that doesn't sound like they're out of love.
Speaker 1: It just sounds like they might need a bit of
Speaker 1: space from each other. Can you explain what you mean
Speaker 1: by that a little bit more?
Speaker 2: So, they have actually broken up before. This is actually
Speaker 2: the third time that they have gone through something like this.
Speaker 2: The most recent time was in nineteen eighty seven, which,
Speaker 2: if my mass is correct, nearly forty years ago, and
Speaker 2: so that was over a disagreement about who should be
Speaker 2: running as prime minister for the country. So obviously in
Speaker 2: the coalition, only one person if they are in opposition,
Speaker 2: can be running to be the prime minister, and the
Speaker 2: Nationals said they wanted to put forward a leader. The
Speaker 2: Liberal Party, who traditionally does put forward the person to
Speaker 2: be running for prime minister, said no, and that caused
Speaker 2: a disagreement, which led to a split. But that lasted
Speaker 2: about one hundred days and then they eventually came back
Speaker 2: together because I.
Speaker 1: Think the interesting dynamic, iming purely on the mathematical point,
Speaker 1: is for there to be any chance of a coalition
Speaker 1: government at almost any election, they almost need to be together. Yes,
Speaker 1: so the incentives to get back together are pretty strong.
Speaker 1: Did David little Proud, the current leader of the Nationals,
Speaker 1: did he talk through at that press conference the key
Speaker 1: reasons why they're making this decision right now?
Speaker 2: Yes. So he said that there were four specific policy
Speaker 2: areas that led to this breakup. I'll go through them.
Speaker 2: The first one is nuclear energy. So the Nationals strongly
Speaker 2: believe that Australia needs to introduce nuclear energy. At the
Speaker 2: last election, the coalition together went to the Australian public
Speaker 2: and said if we are elected, we will introduce nuclear energy. Now,
Speaker 2: obviously they were not elected but the Nationals are saying
Speaker 2: that wasn't because of our nuclear policy, and so we
Speaker 2: believe that at the next election we should still have
Speaker 2: the policy of introducing nuclear energy.
Speaker 1: And it's an important policy for a lot of the
Speaker 1: nine million people that they represent, which the nine million
Speaker 1: Australians that don't live in capital cities where energy distribution
Speaker 1: and kind of the way that regional Australia is powered
Speaker 1: is a big topic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And they say that Australia can't just run on
Speaker 2: renewable energy. They are saying that in order for Australia
Speaker 2: to run efficiently, we actually need nuclear energy.
Speaker 1: So if I'm understanding correctly, post election, the Nationals kind
Speaker 1: of said to their partners in the coalition, the Liberal Party,
Speaker 1: are you still going to back nuclear power going forward?
Speaker 1: Because that's a fundamental part of why we're staying in
Speaker 1: this relationship And the Liberal Party couldn't give that guarantee
Speaker 1: right now? Is that kind of right correct?
Speaker 2: But we don't know how the conversation exactly went, but
Speaker 2: I think we can pretty safely presume that the Liberal
Speaker 2: Party said we're not willing to commit to.
Speaker 1: That right now. Okay, And you said there were four
Speaker 1: areas so take me through Nuclear was number one? What's
Speaker 1: number two?
Speaker 2: So number two is something called the Regional Australia Future Fund,
Speaker 2: and that was another election policy. This one was about
Speaker 2: creating a twenty billion dollar fund providing better infrastructure for
Speaker 2: regional and remote Australia.
Speaker 1: Okay. Interesting, So we've got two very regional driven policies
Speaker 1: or very relevant to regional heartlands. Take me through the
Speaker 1: third and the fourth ones.
Speaker 2: The third one is also very regional focused. It was
Speaker 2: something called the Universal Service Obligation and that was a
Speaker 2: plan to improve regional mobile and internet access.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: And then the last one is something called Divestiture Powers,
Speaker 2: which I find very hard.
Speaker 1: To say, you're pretty good.
Speaker 2: So that was a coalition policy that would require large
Speaker 2: companies to sell parts of their businesses if they demonstrated
Speaker 2: serious anti competitive behavior. And that was specifically aimed at
Speaker 2: reducing the market power of supermarkets.
Speaker 1: So by effect standing up for farmers who may be
Speaker 1: producing milk or meat for the supermarkets and feel like
Speaker 1: they're getting ripped off.
Speaker 2: A bit, yes, and saying that Australia has this duopoly
Speaker 2: with Cohles and Wulwas and we need to diversify where
Speaker 2: Australians are getting their products from.
Speaker 1: And so these are all policy areas that the coalition,
Speaker 1: as a partnership between the Liberal Party and the Nationals
Speaker 1: carried into this election. What did the Liberal Party say
Speaker 1: about these four areas that made the Nationals break up
Speaker 1: with them?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So, like I said, we heard from the Nationals leader,
Speaker 2: David Little Proud in the morning announcing the breakup, and
Speaker 2: then just a few hours later we heard from the
Speaker 2: leader of the Liberal Party, who is Susan Lee. She
Speaker 2: was only elected last week. And I also think it's
Speaker 2: worth mentioning that she actually lost her mother over the weekend,
Speaker 2: so I mean, she has had a terrible first week
Speaker 2: on the job.
Speaker 1: It was interesting, actually, I'll just quickly tell you I
Speaker 1: was listening to an interview with David Little Proud with
Speaker 1: Triple J the day of this big announcement, and David MARQUESI,
Speaker 1: the interviewer, put to him, you know, this person's mother
Speaker 1: just passed away, like, is this the right time to
Speaker 1: be renegotiating the coalition agreement? And David Little Proud said
Speaker 1: he let Susan dictate the terms of those discussions, and
Speaker 1: that she said, I'm going to come to Canberra the
Speaker 1: day after her mother's funeral to have these really important
Speaker 1: discussions about the future of the coalition, and he said, no,
Speaker 1: I'll come to you. And Susan Lee was in Aubrey
Speaker 1: at the time, which is where her late mother was,
Speaker 1: and David Little Proud went to Aubrey to have the
Speaker 1: discussions on her terms. And I just thought that was
Speaker 1: an interesting Yeah, amid the political games that we're talking
Speaker 1: about here are very human story, Yeah, but.
Speaker 2: Still just you can't imagine what she must be going
Speaker 2: through now, but we do know. So she did hold
Speaker 2: this press conference, yeah, on Tuesday exactly, and so what
Speaker 2: she said about the discussions is that the National Party
Speaker 2: came to her with these four policy areas and she
Speaker 2: just said, we are not able to commit to that
Speaker 2: right now. We need more time to understand what our
Speaker 2: policy areas are going to be moving forward, and if
Speaker 2: you can't give that to us, then we can't enter
Speaker 2: into this coalition. And so that's when the National Party
Speaker 2: pulled out of the coalition.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back with the rest of the TI
Speaker 1: They dive after a quick message from our sponsor. And
Speaker 1: we also know that the Liberal Party is planning this
Speaker 1: review of where everything went so wrong for them in
Speaker 1: the election, which is totally normal behavior for a political
Speaker 1: party post an election loss.
Speaker 2: Definitely, so they are going to do this review. But
Speaker 2: I think one thing that they are clearly already reflecting
Speaker 2: on is this idea that they need to modernize, and
Speaker 2: that is their word. So Susan Lee in the press
Speaker 2: conference on Tuesday, she kept saying that the Liberal Party
Speaker 2: needs to modernize. Here's a little bit of that clip.
Speaker 2: The Liberal Party must respect modern Australia, reflect modern Australia
Speaker 2: and represent modern Australia. And just in terms of why,
Speaker 2: I think that we can infer that she's saying that
Speaker 2: perhaps being with the National Party won't allow us to modernize.
Speaker 2: We know the Nationals are a more conservative part of
Speaker 2: the coalition, definitely sit more to the right of the
Speaker 2: Liberal Party, and we also know that Susan Lee is
Speaker 2: part of the more moderate part of the Liberal Party.
Speaker 2: So I think the gap between the ideologies of Susan
Speaker 2: Lee as the leader of the Liberal Party and then
Speaker 2: the Nationals who are wanting to be more conservative is
Speaker 2: clearly quite far.
Speaker 1: Billy, I'm king to zoom out for a sex So
Speaker 1: how will all of this affect the makeup of the
Speaker 1: opposition in Parliament.
Speaker 2: Well, that's the critical question because it completely changes now
Speaker 2: who is in opposition. So, in case you're not familiar,
Speaker 2: every parliament needs to have an opposition and that's the
Speaker 2: party or group that has the highest number of non
Speaker 2: government seats. So I think you can think of it
Speaker 2: as like the party that won the second highest number
Speaker 2: of seats at the election. Now, since the Liberal Party
Speaker 2: won more seats than the Nationals at the election, So
Speaker 2: the Liberal Party won twenty eight seats and the Nationals
Speaker 2: one fifteen, So that means that the Liberals had the
Speaker 2: second highest number of seats as a single party by.
Speaker 1: Quite a bit.
Speaker 2: Had a big Yeah, Labor had ninety three and the
Speaker 2: second was twenty eight, so that is a big gap.
Speaker 2: So that just means that the Liberals will be the
Speaker 2: official opposition party without the Nationals.
Speaker 1: And before we wrap up, give me a sense of
Speaker 1: what this all means for the Labor government. I mean,
Speaker 1: primus Anthony Abeasy wasn't even in the country for all
Speaker 1: of this this week. He was off in Italy at
Speaker 1: the official ceremony to welcome the new pope. He's now
Speaker 1: back in the country. What will this mean for his government?
Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't mean a lot, although I presume
Speaker 2: that they would be quite happy because it kind of
Speaker 2: I mean, I think when there's so much disunity in
Speaker 2: the opposition and then Labor is able to present unity
Speaker 2: to the country, it's just good for them in terms
Speaker 2: of what it actually means for them. If the coalition
Speaker 2: doesn't get back together, it kind of basically guarantees that
Speaker 2: Labor will be re elected for a third consecutive term.
Speaker 2: What do you mean by that, Well, because the Liberal Party,
Speaker 2: in order for them to govern by themselves, they need
Speaker 2: to win seventy six seats, Like I just said, At
Speaker 2: the last election, they won twenty.
Speaker 1: Eight seats, so they've got a big gap.
Speaker 2: That's a big gap, that's almost a fifty seat gap,
Speaker 2: and to turn that around in a single election cycle
Speaker 2: would be very hard. Some would argue it's near and possible,
Speaker 2: and so if the coalition, if they don't have the
Speaker 2: support of the National Party, then Labor is pretty much
Speaker 2: guaranteed to win again.
Speaker 1: Okay, but you mentioned before that the last example nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty seven, there was an one hundred day breakup and
Speaker 1: then they got back together. The trend historically tends to
Speaker 1: be that the coalition reunites, they go and sit in
Speaker 1: the park bench and confess their love for once more.
Speaker 1: What happens if the Coalition does indeed reform before the
Speaker 1: next election, and.
Speaker 2: They have basically said that that will definitely happen. No
Speaker 2: one is positioning this as a permanent breakup. Both David
Speaker 2: Littlproud and Susan Lee said that they have every intention
Speaker 2: to get.
Speaker 1: Back together, they just need some time apart.
Speaker 2: They were basically giving people relationship advice.
Speaker 1: That's incredible. It's an incredible fusion of politics and caller daddy.
Speaker 2: Yes. So if the Coalition does get back together then
Speaker 2: it's basically business as normal for the Labor Party for
Speaker 2: the next election. For everyone, it's just business as normal
Speaker 2: and your hope for them that they would have more
Speaker 2: unity in their policy positions moving forward.
Speaker 1: One interesting bit of trivia I actually read about online
Speaker 1: is that so every member of Parliament gets an allowance
Speaker 1: and that allowance pays for their staff at Parliament that
Speaker 1: helped them in their office. The opposition gets a certain
Speaker 1: allowance and then minor parties get a lower allowance, and
Speaker 1: the Nationals were part of the opposition up until Tuesday
Speaker 1: and then now a minor party, so every Nationals member
Speaker 1: actually gets a little less money to fund their office,
Speaker 1: and so there were actually reports of members of their
Speaker 1: office trying to figure out, well, what does this mean
Speaker 1: for our job? And I just thought that was a
Speaker 1: really interesting kind of quirk of the system where yeah,
Speaker 1: on the surface, it looks like a symbolic split for now,
Speaker 1: but it can, you know, really shake up the way
Speaker 1: that the Parliament works. Definitely, thank you so much for that, Billy,
Speaker 1: some great relationship advice, some great political explaining. You would
Speaker 1: be the perfect political date show hosts. That's a fantastic
Speaker 1: effort to explain the coalition through love. That's all we've
Speaker 1: got time for on today's episode of The Daily Os.
Speaker 1: We're going to be back in the afternoon with some headlines,
Speaker 1: but as always, you can check us out on Instagram
Speaker 1: to catch up with some news throughout the day. We'll
Speaker 1: speak to you this afternoon. My name is Lily Maddon
Speaker 1: and I'm a proud Arunda Bunjelung Calcuttin woman from Gadigl Country.
Speaker 2: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on
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Speaker 1: And pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island
Speaker 1: and nations.
Speaker 2: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,
Speaker 2: both past and present.