1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: You know that a local corner store which also operates 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: as a bottle shop, has been forced to shut shop 3 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: until the end of the month. Now it comes after 4 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 1: changes in how grog sales are calculated in proportion to 5 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: grocery items. Now joining me on the line right now 6 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: is Shelley Lay, who is the co owner of zicicoli IgA. 7 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Shelley. 8 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 2: Good morning Katie. 9 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: Shelley, just explain to us why have you had to 10 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: close your bottle shop until the end of the months. 11 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 2: So this is not in relation to the crime or 12 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 2: Declan's death that we've seen across the some closures of 13 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 2: bottle shops of late. But why we've had to close 14 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,480 Speaker 2: our bottle shop is that we are under a law 15 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 2: that states that we can only sell liqua. Our total 16 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 2: liquor sales cannot exceed twenty five percent of our total 17 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 2: gross turnover between the two stores, and over this quarter 18 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 2: will be exceeding that twenty five percent. So to remain 19 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 2: within the law, we've had to close our bottle shop. 20 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: So what impact is that now going to have on 21 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:11,759 Speaker 1: your business? 22 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 2: Well, it's detrimental to our business. This model is not feasible. 23 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 2: It's not practical, it's not measured correctly, and it's certainly 24 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 2: not fair when the big guys are not measured with 25 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 2: this same rule. So if you can't, we have to 26 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 2: shut our shop. But you can. It's not stopping the 27 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 2: volume of alcohol that is available because you can just 28 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 2: go up the road and buy as much as you 29 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 2: want and there is no cap. 30 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to say, Shelley, I know that 31 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: some people listening might be thinking to themselves, well, you know, 32 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: if it means that there's less alcohol on the streets, 33 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:56,559 Speaker 1: that could be a good thing. 34 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 2: And that is a hoard undred percent not what we 35 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 2: are saying, because if you don't buy it from my store, 36 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:09,959 Speaker 2: you can go and buy it from any other outlet 37 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 2: that is that are not measured with this same cap. 38 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 2: So the volume is not changing. All I'm wanting is 39 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 2: for this to be increased so that small business in 40 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 2: the territory can thrive, can stay open, can employ locals, 41 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 2: keep the money here. Because by our doors being shut today, tomorrow, 42 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 2: and what are we Thursday and Friday, it's just driving 43 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 2: customers to the big players up the road, and they 44 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: are getting all of that business. 45 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: Shelley, what will it mean for your bottle shop staff. 46 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 2: So our bottle shop staff don't have any hours today. 47 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 2: They're casual staff and they're not required, so their whole 48 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:59,239 Speaker 2: week has just been turned upside down. And there's a 49 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 2: number of facts that have come into play. There is 50 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 2: this measurement of the twenty five percent used to be 51 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 2: measured annually, and then that a snap decision was made 52 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 2: to start measuring that quarterly for this quarter. So over 53 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 2: the year it worked itself out with the highs and 54 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 2: low season that we experienced here in Darwin, with people 55 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 2: going away, the dry and the wet, but because it's 56 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 2: now measured quarterly, it's a smaller pool. You can't it's 57 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 2: not working itself out. Unfortunately, we have had a train 58 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 2: derailment that stopped grocery items from being delivered to our store, 59 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 2: so something that was nothing to do with us, but 60 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 2: we didn't have food on our shelves, so we couldn't 61 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 2: sell any grocery or as many grocery items, so grocery 62 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 2: sales were down. And then with the BWS has been 63 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 2: shut last week a number of days in closing earlier, 64 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 2: it meant that people who were buying alcohol legally who 65 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 2: are over eighteen who were not on the BDR and 66 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 2: who lived in the local area. We're then going to 67 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 2: other outlets. But that's another reason why it's pushed us over. 68 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: Now. I know, Shelly, some people are going to be 69 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: listening and thinking, and they are going to be thinking 70 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: to themselves. Look, you know, I don't have an issue 71 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: with some of those corner stores having to sell less alcohol. 72 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: I mean, what would you say to them? 73 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 2: I would say, what is the difference between buying it 74 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 2: from the corner store to a major outlet? 75 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: Yeah? Look, I think it's a fair enough point purchase. 76 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, at any other liquor store. Why is the little 77 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 2: guy the problem? Why are we if you talk all 78 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 2: alcohol away from fifty one grocery liquor store licenses in 79 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 2: the territory, do you think the liquor problem that we 80 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 2: have would be sick Well, yeah, you know. And the 81 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 2: flow on effect to that is that the stores cannot 82 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 2: survive with just the grocery sales. And it's not because 83 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 2: we need that the liquor income. It's the convenience offering. 84 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 2: So if people need the convenience, so they're not going 85 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 2: to stop at my shop and just buy their groceries 86 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 2: when they can stop them buy their alcohol at the 87 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: BWS at Bakewell and then they'll go straight into Woolies 88 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 2: and buy the incidentals. So then we've lost the sales 89 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 2: from the groceries from the IgA. So the flow on 90 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 2: effect is not just alcohol. And imagine if you didn't 91 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: have imagine if the ida's all in Alice Springs closed. Yes, 92 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 2: they're under this thrill will worse is not Cole's trade 93 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 2: is so great that they are nowhere near reaching their caps. 94 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: Shelly, can I ask. We spoke to the Chief Minister 95 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 1: on the show yesterday and she's sort of flagged that 96 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: they're looking at everything when it comes to you know 97 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: two alcohol in the Northern Terrace right now? What do 98 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: you think about this discussion that some people have sort 99 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: of started to have about liquor buybacks or licensed buybacks 100 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 1: for some of the corner stores that have got the 101 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: liquor out Lett. 102 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 2: It's definitely a conversation that some people may be interested 103 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 2: in having. It would totally depends on what they're going 104 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 2: to buy back the liquor license for. And I have 105 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 2: that conversation with people, but unfortunately, because of the size 106 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 2: of our store, it's not something that we would personally 107 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 2: be interested in because we are operating like a major supermarket. 108 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 2: It's a model that the Big two used right across 109 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:47,359 Speaker 2: the country and it's not uncommon to have liquor next 110 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 2: door to groceries. In fact, it's even promoting consuming food 111 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 2: at the same time you're drinking alcohol. 112 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: Can I ask, so, at this point in time, are 113 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: you calling on the liquor commute to review the calculation 114 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: of grog sales. I know that they had that review going. 115 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: I think it ended. Submissions ended at the end of February, 116 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: if I recall correctly. But what exactly do you want 117 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: to see here? 118 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that is currently a review. I would like 119 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 2: to see the twenty five percent cap listed. We run 120 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 2: a very legitimate store and I can and this model 121 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 2: is not working, so it doesn't allow businesses to grow. 122 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 2: We're being penalized by growing. Our area is growing. I 123 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 2: can't make people buy more from the IgA. We have 124 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: fifteen thousand items in the IDA and about two thousand 125 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 2: items in the bottle shop. The bottle shop is auxillery 126 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 2: to our grocery offering, but the way it's measured when 127 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 2: you're comparing a fifty dollars carton of bierut to a 128 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 2: couple of cartons of milk. The twenty five percent rule, 129 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 2: which is purely on turnover. And I'll give you the 130 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 2: example of if you've bought a case of beer in 131 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 2: the bottle shop for fifty dollars, you need to spend 132 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty dollars in the IgA to offset 133 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 2: that purchase to make us a viable business, to ensure 134 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 2: we are working within the law. 135 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: Well, Shelley, I think you've probably given a lot of 136 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: people a bit of food for thought this morning on 137 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: exactly how it works, and giving us a bit of 138 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: a better understanding of how exactly it works, because for 139 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: a lot of us, you know, we've got no idea 140 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: and this. 141 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 2: Is the thing. And can I just leave you with 142 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 2: a really quick example. We're obviously a bit of a 143 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 2: standalone stool. We don't and we don't have liquor outlets 144 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 2: really close to us. But if we look at Darwin City, 145 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 2: there are seven outlets that sell takeaway liquor. Only two 146 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 2: are bound by this twenty five percent rule. One is 147 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 2: Liquor Lands in the Mitchell Center and the other one 148 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 2: is the or the Old Ida or Darwin Supermarket, not too, 149 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 2: just across the road from mixed there. So the only 150 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 2: people that are facing closure that could are the little 151 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 2: supermarkets there. And if I give you an example, if 152 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,439 Speaker 2: their sales were well, let's give you an example of 153 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 2: wool Worth. First they'd turnover would be a million dollars, 154 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 2: So if they were under the same rule, they could 155 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 2: sell two hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth of alcohol. 156 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 2: But they're not under this rule, so they can sell 157 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 2: as much as they want. But cold if they were 158 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 2: selling the same sort of volume of groceries, and they're 159 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 2: probably not because they're not as busy as the woolies. 160 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 2: But let's say they're five hundred thousand a week, they 161 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 2: could sell one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars worth 162 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 2: of alcohol. The little doll And supermarket sells fifty thousand 163 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 2: dollars worth of groceries a week. That means they can 164 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 2: sell twelve and a half thousand dollars worth of alcohol. 165 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 2: What they are putting into the community is not the problem, 166 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 2: and they are facing fines and possible closure. This is 167 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 2: the end of supermarket small business in the territory and 168 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 2: it's really hard to take when the big guys are 169 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 2: thriving well. 170 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: Shelley, thank you very much for having a chat with 171 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: us this morning. The phone lines have started to light up, 172 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: so I'm not too sure you know exactly what people 173 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: will think of this. They're probably hearing it for the 174 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: first time. I really appreciate you having a chat with 175 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: us this morning, and no doubt we'll talk to you 176 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: again very soon. 177 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 2: Thanks Katie. I appreciate you allowing me to just educate 178 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 2: people on the struggles that small businesses facing. 179 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: Thanks Shelley, we appreciate it.