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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the.

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Speaker 1: Time poor parent who just wants answers. Now, we recognize

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Speaker 1: that as part of a team, utilizing those strengths is

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Speaker 1: more efficient and allows us to kind of focus on

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Speaker 1: the things that are most important. And now here's the

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Speaker 1: stars of our show, my mum and dad.

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Speaker 2: I've just got this feeling.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm right or not, but I've

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Speaker 3: got this feeling that today I'm going to look bad

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Speaker 3: at the end of the podcast.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why.

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Speaker 3: Hello, this is up to Justin Courson, on the pairing

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Speaker 3: expert MA channel Mind's parental Guidance and the founder of

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Speaker 3: Happy Families dot com dot au. He with Kylie, my wife,

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Speaker 3: mum to our six kids and podcast co host. And

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Speaker 3: today we're talking about something Kylie that am I going

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Speaker 3: to Am I going to get out of this?

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Speaker 2: Or is this going to make me look bad?

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Speaker 4: I'm really looking forward Today's right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you for answering my questions so directly. I

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Speaker 3: think we all know where this is going. There is

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Speaker 3: a phrase that has gone bonkers on social media, particularly

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Speaker 3: on TikTok over the last little while. It's called weaponized incompetence.

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Speaker 3: What weaponized incompetence means. It's also known as strategic incompetence.

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Speaker 3: It's basically when you pretend that you're not very good

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Speaker 3: at something so that you don't have to do it.

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Speaker 2: It's a way of.

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Speaker 3: Saying, oh, I'm no good at that, I can't do that,

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Speaker 3: and the person that you're seeing it too says, fine,

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Speaker 3: it's just going to be easier if I do it. Anyway,

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Speaker 3: Weaponized in competence is what some people do so they

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Speaker 3: can get out of doing work.

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Speaker 4: I mean some people. I think every child that ever.

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Speaker 1: Has gone to weaponize incompetent school.

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Speaker 3: Well, as you know, as we're living in separate homes

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Speaker 3: right now with the never ending move that's going on

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Speaker 3: for us, I'm living at home with our nineteen year

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Speaker 3: old daughter, and she doesn't know how to do anything.

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Speaker 3: I'm finding that I'm doing everything. She can't cook, she

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Speaker 3: can't do anything. I don't believe that it's a fact.

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Speaker 3: I think that she's weaponized her in competence against me

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Speaker 3: so that Dad will do everything that she's used to

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Speaker 3: having mum do for her.

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Speaker 4: It sounds like having such a hard time, honey.

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Speaker 3: I am, but you know, that the two words that

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Speaker 3: come out of everyone's mouths when they begin to turn

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Speaker 3: their incompetence against somebody so that they'll do everything for them.

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Speaker 4: I can't.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're probably hearing it all the time with the

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Speaker 3: four kids that you've got right now.

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Speaker 2: I can't.

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Speaker 3: It's too hard, I can't do you know what, Mama? Well,

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Speaker 3: you do know my mom used to say. Whenever I

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Speaker 3: would say I can't, she would look at me and say, justin,

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Speaker 3: can't means don't want to. She knew how to overcome

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Speaker 3: my weaponized incompetence.

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Speaker 1: Ah, well, he clearly learned a few things, because it

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Speaker 1: doesn't work for me.

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Speaker 3: What do you mean what doesn't work for you? When

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Speaker 3: you say can't means don't want to?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I do. I say I can't. I used to. I'm

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Speaker 2: going to make a confession.

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Speaker 3: In the early days, back before i'd done psychology, back

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Speaker 3: before I was thinking about being a good parent, back

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Speaker 3: before I was writing the books, I used to. I

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Speaker 3: used to say that I couldn't change the kids nappies.

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Speaker 3: Do you remember how bad I wasn't changing their nappies?

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Speaker 1: I couldn't leave the babies with you because you couldn't.

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Speaker 4: I couldn't look after them, couldn't look after them.

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Speaker 3: Completely incompetent, completely completely incompetent. And there's something interesting now.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think that our relationships like that anymore.

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Speaker 3: But when this happens a lot, and I'm just going

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Speaker 3: to be serious for a second and then we'll go back.

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Speaker 2: To having fun.

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Speaker 3: When this happens a lot, I actually think that it

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Speaker 3: could be a form of I don't know if abuse

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Speaker 3: is too strong a world or not, but when somebody

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Speaker 3: is consistently saying to somebody in effect, when they say

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Speaker 3: I can't you'll have to, I think what they're actually

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Speaker 3: saying is you I don't respect you enough. I think

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Speaker 3: this is actually a question of respect. It's like it's

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Speaker 3: a passive aggressive way of saying, I don't respect you

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Speaker 3: enough to do this, and I'm going to make you

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Speaker 3: do it.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to pretend that I can't do it.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to feign, weaponize in competence and force you

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Speaker 3: to do it because I just don't respect you.

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Speaker 2: So at a very serious level, this is.

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Speaker 4: You've taken this very serious very fast.

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Speaker 2: I kind of have.

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Speaker 3: But if we go back to it, what this is

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Speaker 3: really about is whether or not. It comes down to motivation, right,

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Speaker 3: what's my motivation? So, for example, Kylie, you know that

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Speaker 3: I can't. I can't put together a grocery list and

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Speaker 3: go shopping.

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Speaker 4: No, that's definitely not one of your strengths.

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Speaker 2: But what I have discovered is that you can't go shopping.

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Speaker 2: You hate it. So we've worked out as well, but

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Speaker 2: I can't.

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Speaker 4: It's that I hate it, and if.

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Speaker 3: I have to, I will, yes, yes, And if I

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Speaker 3: have to, I will put together the grocery list and

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Speaker 3: go shopping as well.

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Speaker 4: The thing is make a lot of noise about it.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's because you make a lot of noise when

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Speaker 3: I get back and I haven't bought the fourteen things

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Speaker 3: that you think that I should have bought. But I

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Speaker 3: didn't know what we were having for dinner this week,

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Speaker 3: and this is kind of what I'm getting to. So

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Speaker 3: there's a difference, I think, between weaponized incompetence and division

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Speaker 3: of labor. So you and I have worked out that

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Speaker 3: you hate going shopping and I'm really I mean, I'm

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Speaker 3: genuinely I'm not aware of what needs to go into

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Speaker 3: the shopping list, and I've tried to get it right.

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Speaker 3: I know how to read the pantry, look at where

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Speaker 3: there are gaps, and fill those gaps with the stuff

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Speaker 3: that we would normally have there. But I just don't

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Speaker 3: necessarily I know exactly how to get the shopping list

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Speaker 3: exactly right so that we can have a seamless week

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Speaker 3: of meals. But what we've discovered is that if you've

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Speaker 3: put the shopping list together for me, which you're quite

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Speaker 3: happy to do, I'm more than happy to jump in

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Speaker 3: the car and go down to the shops and do

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Speaker 3: the groceries. So it's not that we've weaponized in competence

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Speaker 3: in this case. We've just worked out that we've got

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Speaker 3: strengths and weaknesses, we've got preferences and priorities, and we

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Speaker 3: have divided our labor accordingly.

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Speaker 2: Is that fair?

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Speaker 4: That's fair?

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 4: Excellent teamwork makes the dream work.

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Speaker 3: I am going to suggest, though, that there are some

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Speaker 3: things that you've done strategically to feign incompetence so that

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Speaker 3: I will do them.

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Speaker 2: I may I disclose? Can I Can I have a list? Yeah? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Can I share some dirt?

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Speaker 4: Only if I can share some Well, you have a list?

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Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, Well I'm not surprised. Yeah, all right,

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Speaker 3: you go first. Then no, no, no, give me my list.

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Speaker 3: The lists are coming up after the break.

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Speaker 2: It's their Happy Families podcasts for a happier family.

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Speaker 1: Try a Happy Families membership because a happy family doesn't

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Speaker 1: just happen.

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Speaker 4: Details at happy families dot com dot au.

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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 1: poor parent who just wants answers now And I'm wondering

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Speaker 1: what this list is.

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Speaker 4: How long is it taking you to create this list?

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Speaker 3: Actually it was pretty hard. There's very little that you

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Speaker 3: do to feign incompetence. I've got a couple of things

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Speaker 3: for you. The rubbish bins.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm really not good at taking the rubbish wins.

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Speaker 2: Down, so terrible. You know what happens when it's your job,

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Speaker 2: your week, your your time. If I'm not around and

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Speaker 2: you've got to take the rubbish bins.

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Speaker 4: Out, we do a sprint. This morning, we had to

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Speaker 4: do a sprint.

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Speaker 1: And the problem down the stairs without shoes on, and

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Speaker 1: the wheel of the rubbish pin fell off as I

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Speaker 1: was trying to drag it just in time for the

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Speaker 1: truck to arrive right in front of me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And how many how many times have

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Speaker 3: you forgotten entirely when it's like, this is weaponizing competence right,

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Speaker 3: justin it's your job to do the bins, that's really

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Speaker 3: what you're saying.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of okay, car stuff. How often do you

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Speaker 2: fill up the car or peturel on the car?

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Speaker 4: Well, at the moment, I'm doing it every week, thank

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Speaker 4: you very much, because.

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Speaker 2: Where are you.

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Speaker 3: It's funny you say that because I've been filling your

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Speaker 3: car up whenever we drive it, and I'm on the

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Speaker 3: coast with you as well.

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Speaker 4: So did you say you've been driving my car? A

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Speaker 4: look in when you're here.

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Speaker 3: You feign incompetence when it comes to driving. I'm the

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Speaker 3: only one who can drive the right way. I'm the

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Speaker 3: only one that can park the right way.

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Speaker 4: Well that might be because I have a backseat driver.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so let me give you all in all seriousness,

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Speaker 3: I think the only time that you've feigned incompetence is

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Speaker 3: when it's time to call somebody. You don't like making

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Speaker 3: phone calls. You don't like organizing those kinds of things,

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Speaker 3: whether it's playdates for the kids or whether it's a

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Speaker 3: doctor's appointment. It's just not your thing. You don't like

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Speaker 3: doing that. Fair, Fair, Okay, I have three ways that

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Speaker 3: we can overcome what might be legitimate weaponized incompetence.

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Speaker 4: I'm interested to hear, and what's number one.

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Speaker 3: The first one is just recognize selfishness in yourself. Be

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Speaker 3: sufficiently self aware to acknowledge that if you're choosing not

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Speaker 3: to get up to the baby at night and pretending

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Speaker 3: that you're incompetent, choosing not to look after the kids,

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Speaker 3: choosing not to cook a meal because you'd rather sit

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Speaker 3: in front of a screen and answer emails or do

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Speaker 3: gaming or other non productive tasks, that's called selfishness. That

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Speaker 3: is a problem, and we've got to be brave enough,

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Speaker 3: courageous enough to call it out when our partner's doing

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Speaker 3: it in a kind supportive way. And I think that's

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Speaker 3: where my second to second two ideas will help to

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Speaker 3: move away from any kind of weaponized or strategic incompetence.

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Speaker 3: But self awareness for you, if you're the one doing it,

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Speaker 3: or being brave enough to point out when your partner

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Speaker 3: is doing it, I think that matters, and we should

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Speaker 3: talk about that.

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Speaker 1: You know, we've talked a lot about competence as we've

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Speaker 1: been having a little bit of fun together, and I

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Speaker 1: just wonder sometimes what it actually says to our partners

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Speaker 1: when in spite of our incompetence, we actually give something

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Speaker 1: a go. You know, we're not great in the kitchen,

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Speaker 1: but we know that our wife or our partner is

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Speaker 1: just tired and has had a rodden day. And what

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Speaker 1: does it actually say to her for you to say,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I've got it tonight. And it might

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Speaker 1: just be exontost or you know, spaghetti out of a

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Speaker 1: can or whatever, but you do what you can to

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Speaker 1: actually alleviate and support.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure, it comes down to motive motives again,

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Speaker 3: that's what it really is, selfishness or selflessness. My second idea,

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Speaker 3: if you're dealing with somebody who does weaponize their incompetence,

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Speaker 3: if they say I can't, I don't know how I reckon,

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Speaker 3: there's a couple of words like google it that might

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Speaker 3: help what you're effectively doing when you say that. You

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Speaker 3: don't have to say those words because googling it might

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Speaker 3: not be the way forward, But say to them, what

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Speaker 3: do you think you can do about that? Or well,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to leave it up to you, or I

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Speaker 3: trust you or I believe in you. If it's mining

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Speaker 3: the children and a partner says I can't I'm no

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Speaker 3: good at this. You can say, well, today is going

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Speaker 3: to be a day where you're going to have to

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Speaker 3: just work it out, or I believe in you, or well,

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Speaker 3: let's talk about some contingencies in case things don't go well.

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Speaker 2: But it's on you.

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Speaker 3: Literally defer back to them, put it on them, tell

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Speaker 3: them to google it, tell them to find a solution

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Speaker 3: that's going. Just being strong enough to respect yourself, even

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Speaker 3: if they're not respecting you, they will then respect you

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Speaker 3: because you've respect yourself.

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Speaker 4: I think this goes.

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Speaker 1: Both ways, though, and I think it's really important that

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Speaker 1: you're self aware on both sides of the fence here,

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Speaker 1: because if you're the competent person, why does your partner

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Speaker 1: feel incompetent?

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Speaker 4: And are you playing a part in that?

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Speaker 1: You know, is there enough belief in them that they're

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Speaker 1: capable and able to do the job that's being asked,

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Speaker 1: or have we made them feel that way over time

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Speaker 1: because we've just kind of taken that role on because

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Speaker 1: we know we're better at it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And that happens a lot.

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Speaker 3: In fact, when it comes to this idea, Quite often

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Speaker 3: a person is not saying I'm incompetent, therefore I'm forcing

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Speaker 3: you to do it. Sometimes it is the competent person

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Speaker 3: saying I'm not going to let you do it, So

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Speaker 3: I reckon that's really important one. Put it back on them.

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Speaker 3: Give them the opportunity to demonstrate their competence. That's going

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Speaker 3: to be a useful strategy. And my third one is

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Speaker 3: if it's a no, that is, if you ask somebody

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Speaker 3: to do something and they are incompetent or they use

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Speaker 3: incompetence as a reason to not do it, work out

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Speaker 3: where the yes is get them to do something. So

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Speaker 3: in our case, to go back to the groceries, we've

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Speaker 3: discovered that I actually do a pretty lousy job of

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Speaker 3: putting together the shopping lists. And there's a range of

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Speaker 3: reasons for that we're not going to go into in

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Speaker 3: the podcast. But I just I don't have the same knowledge,

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Speaker 3: the same planning, the same capacity to get that right

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Speaker 3: as you do.

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Speaker 4: So I will think it's mainly just because you spend

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Speaker 4: a lot of time in the sweet style.

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Speaker 2: As well.

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Speaker 4: Do the freezer and the pantry get filled up with

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Speaker 4: a lot of sugar when you go.

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Speaker 3: My point is, stop derailing my conversation here, I'm making

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Speaker 3: an important point, missus happy families. My point is if

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Speaker 3: you are if you ask me to put together a

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Speaker 3: list of what needs to be brought at the shops,

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Speaker 3: I'm probably not going to do a very good job,

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Speaker 3: and I'm going to say do.

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Speaker 2: I have to? I can't. I'm not very good at it.

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Speaker 3: But what you've discovered is you can say, well, what

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Speaker 3: about if I put the list together and you go

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Speaker 3: get it from the shops? If I go and do

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Speaker 3: the grocery shopping, that's the yes to my initial no.

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Speaker 3: Some incompetence at one part of the process doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: whole and full incompetence. It allows me to leave the

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Speaker 3: stuff that I literally don't do well to you for

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Speaker 3: efficiency and productivity and to maximize our time. But it

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Speaker 3: also then gives you the chance to refer me to

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Speaker 3: what I can do completely capably, so that you've now

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Speaker 3: freed up some time in your life to do things

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Speaker 3: that are important to you.

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Speaker 4: You know why I get you to do the grocery staying.

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Speaker 3: Because I always buy the treats and you can blame

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Speaker 3: me for having sugar in the house.

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Speaker 2: That's it, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: It's the way your muscles flex as you walk up

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Speaker 1: the stairs.

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Speaker 3: You know our entire audience has just cringed after what

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Speaker 3: was a really great conversation, But thank you. The Happy

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Speaker 3: Families podcast is produced by Justin Rwan. Craig Bruce is

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Speaker 3: our executive producer. If you'd like more info about weaponized incompetence,

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Speaker 3: by the way, we'll link to it in the show notes.

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Speaker 3: There was a great article on the huff Post about it,

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Speaker 3: which is where we got some of these ideas. If

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Speaker 3: you'd like more info about making your family happier, please

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Speaker 3: find it at happyfamilies dot com dot a you