1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,239 Speaker 1: Darren Hayes from Savage Garden has just released his memoir 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: titled Unlovable. He joins us now, Hello. 3 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 2: Darren, thank you so much for talking to me. 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: This is not a let me tell you about my 5 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: rockstar moments throwing TVs out of windows kind of memoir. 6 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: This is pretty raw to say the least, and fairly 7 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: heavy stuff. But was it therapeutic to write? 8 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 2: I mean, of course. I mean it's funny because I 9 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 2: wouldn't even call the genre a celebrity memoirs. Yeah, it's 10 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 2: a book about a couple of things. It's a book 11 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 2: about how I grew up with domestic violence and a 12 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 2: lifetime of depression and trauma. And the back drop to 13 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 2: that was this extraordinary career. You just played one of 14 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 2: those songs. I'm so grateful part of my life. So yeah, 15 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 2: that career saved my life because it was this wonderful 16 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 2: thing to see world that I got to escape into 17 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 2: and as a young boy I dreamed of having. And 18 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 2: I was fifteen when I went to see Michael Jackson 19 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 2: in concert and decided that being a pop star was 20 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 2: the only way I could escape the world that I 21 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 2: was living in, which was, you know, without being Superdoom 22 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 2: and Gloom. It was very, very sad and very challenging, 23 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 2: and so I became somebody else for a long time 24 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 2: just to survive that. And that's really what the book 25 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: is about. How I did that and how I survived. 26 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a multi layer. There's so much in your 27 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 3: life there. I mean, even at the perth readA gig. 28 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 3: I went with my son as a huge fan of 29 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 3: your so we went to see your most recent perth 30 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 3: reader gig made me eighteen months ago. You even opened 31 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 3: up about discovering your sexuality and you're being honest and 32 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 3: talking about your marriage, breakup and the rest of it. 33 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 3: It was very raw. But you haven't said that on 34 00:01:57,680 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 3: stage man, Now it's on paper. 35 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was sort of the beginning of it. I 36 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 2: knew I had just been given this book deal, which 37 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 2: was such an honor. I don't think I ever would 38 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 2: have sought out to write a book. But when I 39 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 2: was promoting my last album, there's been an article that 40 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 2: I had written for a newspaper in the UK, which 41 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 2: is a childhood photograph of me when I was about ten, 42 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 2: and the subject of that interview was essentially, you can't 43 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 2: tell from this happy you know sort of people pleasing 44 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,519 Speaker 2: little boy sitting on his bed, the horrors that were 45 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 2: going on at home, and then the horrors that were 46 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 2: going on at school being bullied for being gay. And 47 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 2: Penguin reached out to me and said, would you tell 48 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 2: that story because I know in our country, sadly you 49 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 2: know the statistics of violence women. Absolutely, and I'm so 50 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 2: grateful that my mother is still with us. She's obviously 51 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,519 Speaker 2: no longer with my father. And I consider my life 52 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:11,119 Speaker 2: story maybe it's a cautionary tale, but it's also a success. 53 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 2: I got through it, and I hope that this book 54 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 2: and me sharing those stories like I did in Perth. 55 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 2: Thank you for coming to that show. It was really 56 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 2: I love. I loved that tour and I hadn't toured 57 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 2: for so long. But I just hope by sharing these stories, 58 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 2: it's just removing the stigma of feeling ashamed when you 59 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 2: have been abused, when you have been traumatized, you know, 60 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 2: when you've been through those things, when you've experienced depression, 61 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 2: the statistics of male suicide, for example, it's just so 62 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 2: preventable if we just talk about it. So that's the 63 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 2: aim with my book. It's a really yes, it's just 64 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 2: sometimes it's uncomfortable to be this revealing, but it was 65 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 2: healing for me, and I would like hope it's inspiring 66 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 2: for anyone that's either been through or is experiencing anything 67 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 2: that they think they can't overcome. 68 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: It's such a story of two extremes. I mean, something 69 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: that was awful to read was when you talk about 70 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: your father once leaving a hand shaped bruise on you 71 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: that lasted for a week. I mean the thought both 72 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: physically painfully and emotionally painfully that that does to a 73 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: little kid. And then the other extreme of the massive 74 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: success you have as a pop star. But depression doesn't 75 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: that it doesn't necessarily just because you have all that success, 76 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily just go away. Did you find you 77 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: sometimes had to deal with people saying, well, come on, Darren, 78 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: look at your look at this life. You've got buck 79 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: up at all. You've got it all, mate. 80 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 2: Yes, And that's a really common misconception about depression, because 81 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 2: my depression is it's in my DNA. If you read 82 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 2: my book, you know two members of my immediate family 83 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 2: sadly have committed suicide. And it's so sad, you know, 84 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 2: I like to describe it to people as you know 85 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 2: your brain chemicals, they're lying to you. I'm very lucky 86 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 2: that I early on was diagnosed, because it was just 87 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 2: like any other disease, you know, like if you're somebody 88 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 2: who is going to develop diabetes or you have a 89 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 2: higher chance of, say, developing cancer. It was just an inevitability. 90 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 2: My mother's side of the family, we all have a 91 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 2: tendency toward depression. And I, at the height of the 92 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 2: Bridge Garden fame, had people around me that loved me 93 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 2: so much that noticed I was having those very very 94 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 2: dark thoughts. And I got help very early on, and 95 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 2: I still bravely and I'm not ashamed to admit I 96 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 2: still have a psychiatrist and have you know, psychologists, And 97 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 2: no one should ever feel a shamed of that because 98 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 2: you don't have control over that. It's that easy to 99 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 2: just choose to be habit. It's not not a logical 100 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 2: It is as simple as a diabetic having a low 101 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:26,280 Speaker 2: blood sugar count. My brain just doesn't produce those serotonin levels. 102 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: And no one questions when a family has you know 103 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: that that gene that causes breast cancer, that you know, 104 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: and and it's happened to lots of women, and they 105 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: in the in a one line of family, no one 106 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: questions that or you know, so, yes, it is a 107 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,239 Speaker 1: chemical imbalance in the brain depression for the most. 108 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 2: Part, sometimes yes, and sometimes it can be a circumstantial 109 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 2: I have a double whammy. Yeah, have PTSD. So I 110 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 2: had probably eleven or twelve of the years of witnessing 111 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 2: pretty horrific vineans at home and I could never really 112 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 2: admit that, couldn't really talk about that, didn't know how 113 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 2: to process that. And as many of us know, if 114 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 2: you don't deal with that, it's almost like your sorrows. 115 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 2: They learn how to swim. You can try to drown them, 116 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 2: but they they will haunt you until you really learn 117 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 2: how to deal with them. And so that that had 118 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 2: been a challenge in music and this wonderful career I've 119 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 2: been given, I'm so grateful for it. I'm so grateful 120 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 2: for the songs and fans and these moments that I 121 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 2: got to escape into, which I love. Yeah, you know, 122 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 2: I love being on stage. That's amazing you have that. 123 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 3: You've got that credit moment, the talent. 124 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: And it's the storytelling. I guess you learn to tell 125 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: stories as a coping mechanism when you're absolutely with that. 126 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 3: I do at LISTA mentioned this is not a story 127 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 3: of excess and throwing TVs and pools or whatever. It's 128 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 3: a rock or pop star. There's also some really heartwarming stories, 129 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 3: and one of you not being a star but being 130 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 3: a fan of Stevie Nicks and huge. That sounded like 131 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 3: a big day there in Brazil outside at the Hilton 132 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 3: there in Brisbane. 133 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 2: Yes, you're just a kid, right, Why? Yes? This is why. 134 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 2: I was fifteen and my big sister, who introduced me 135 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 2: to music, Fleetwood Mac were touring and we just love 136 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 2: Stevie Nicks and we, I guess, like creepers. We stood 137 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 2: outside the hotel at a very respectful distance all day, 138 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 2: all day, but we saw the limos come and go, 139 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 2: and her tour manager came over to us and he said, 140 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 2: who are you waiting for? We said, Stevie Nicks. And 141 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 2: I can share this now because Stevie has been very 142 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 2: public about this, and years later I've met her and 143 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 2: she's so wonderful. But at the time the world didn't 144 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 2: really know Stevie was struggling with addiction. Tour manager said, listen, 145 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:06,199 Speaker 2: she's not having a great day. She's not leaving for hours. 146 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 2: Do me a favor. It will make her day if 147 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 2: you come and say hi to her. But go away 148 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 2: for a couple of hours and come back and you'll 149 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 2: make her day. So we laughed, and then we thought, 150 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 2: I think he just he did the switch to a 151 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 2: ruin us. She's probably gone out of the back door. 152 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 2: But we trusted him. Sure enough, two hours later we 153 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 2: went back to this hotel and he brought a very 154 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 2: frail Stevinnix out and she saw us, and she held 155 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 2: our hands and she looked into our eyes and I 156 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 2: felt seen when everything else in my life was chaos. 157 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 2: She looked at me. Not only did it lift her up, 158 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 2: but I gave her a gift. I gave her some 159 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 2: red rosary bees and she said, I'm going to wear 160 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,439 Speaker 2: these tonight. She gave me a hug, She signed my album. 161 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 2: She got into a limo at drove off. Then it stopped. 162 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 2: It reversed right back in front of us. Her window 163 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 2: wound down and she said, wait, do you have tickets 164 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 2: to the show? And we said of course. She said okay, 165 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 2: and then she drove off. I never for Yeah, I 166 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 2: never forgot that kindness, and I feel that same connection 167 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 2: to fans today. I know what it's like to have 168 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 2: the power to do a little thing that can make 169 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 2: someone today, and I'm so grateful for that. 170 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 1: That's an amazing, great story the book. We could talk 171 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: all day. We really have to let you go. It 172 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: really needs to be subtitled Lovable, by the way, and 173 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: I should point out it does cover the split of 174 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 1: Savage Garden. I want to. I mean, it's like, it's 175 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: the definitive story, isn't it of what went down there, 176 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: because there's been a lot of speculation and you've copped 177 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: it over the years, and I think it's it's good 178 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:02,439 Speaker 1: that you've finally been able to tell that story about 179 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:03,599 Speaker 1: how Savage. 180 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 2: I just don't think it ever really got published. 181 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. 182 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 2: For me, he was just a chance to just kind 183 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 2: of so I don't have to keep talking about this. 184 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 2: Daniel Daniels unhappy he left. I got blamed for it. 185 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 2: I had always hoped that he would in the moment 186 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 2: say it was his decision. Years later, he eventually did, 187 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 2: but at the time when I really needed him to 188 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 2: own that, he didn't, and that was that was very unkind. Yeah, 189 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 2: you know, it did stick and it was very hard. 190 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 2: But anyway, it's all good. You know, life moves on. 191 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 2: I love my life, i love my job and I'm 192 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 2: really grateful for your time today, so thank you. 193 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 3: Catch up there the Lovable. 194 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: Darren Hayes's book Unlovable is out now. Darren, lovely to 195 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: catch up with you. 196 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 2: We'll see the next Yeah, absolutely talking to me.