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Speaker 1: We know that prison staff are threatening to walk off

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Speaker 1: the job today with concerns that a number of emergency

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Speaker 1: actions by the Corrections Department are going to jeopardize staff

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Speaker 1: safety and potentially lead to rioting. The emergency measures, which

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Speaker 1: include moving thirty eight prisoners from Alice Springs to Darwin

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Speaker 1: Correctional Center, is in response to a rapid and continual

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Speaker 1: surge in prisoner numbers across the Northern Territory's correctional facilities

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Speaker 1: and indeed the watch houses. Now we spoke to Nathan

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Speaker 1: Finn about the impact on those watch houses earlier today.

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Speaker 1: Joining me on the line right now is the United

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Speaker 1: Workers Union's NT secretary, Erina Early. Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Erina, Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Now, Erina, are we going to see correction staff walk

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Speaker 1: off the job?

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Speaker 2: It is highly likely over the next forty hour hours.

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Speaker 2: We're assessing the situation talking to our legal but it's

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Speaker 2: definitely something that is a realistic thing that could occur.

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Speaker 1: So how soon will you decide? I don't know, you

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Speaker 1: said they're forty eight hours, but what are you sort

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Speaker 1: of keeping an eye on before you firm that up.

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Speaker 2: We're still having discussions with the Commissioner or so too.

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Speaker 2: We need to have those instructions from our members as well,

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Speaker 2: so we need to ensure that they are a comfortable

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Speaker 2: walking out as well. But the information we're getting so

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Speaker 2: far from our members is they want to walk. They're

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Speaker 2: not feeling safe the correction so.

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Speaker 1: They want to walk off the job. Erin, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you and I have spoken actually a few times over

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Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks after we were contacted by

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Speaker 1: a whistleblower saying that stuff do not feel safe after

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Speaker 1: somebody was knocked out. A correctional worker was knocked out

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Speaker 1: just a few weeks ago. By the sounds of it,

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Speaker 1: the numbers are continuing to grow. Look, I'm not surprised

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Speaker 1: that they're really quite annoyed at this point.

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Speaker 2: Ah, they are there. I think it's beyond annoyed as well, Katie.

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Speaker 2: It is that genuine fear. I went to the prison

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Speaker 2: yesterday in Darwi and it was like eerily quiet. So

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you've ever been to the prison,

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Speaker 2: but it's loud, you know, these all these people talking

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Speaker 2: and stuff like that. It was a deathly silence. And

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Speaker 2: I actually mentioned that to the officers and they said, yeah,

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Speaker 2: this is the scary part and they genuinely were saying

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Speaker 2: to me yesterday they feel there is a riot or

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Speaker 2: a large scale incident going to occur very soon.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that is a real worry. I think, first

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Speaker 1: and foremost, you want to make sure that everybody working

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Speaker 1: inside those facilities is safe. You know, you want to

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Speaker 1: make sure that you know that the prisoners that are

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Speaker 1: doing the right thing are safe as well. You want

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Speaker 1: to make sure that everybody's safe. It's it sounds like

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Speaker 1: a very concerning situation right now.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it is is really concerning, and I actually feel

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Speaker 2: very scared for my members. They are working hard, they're

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Speaker 2: putting a brave face on. They just don't know if

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Speaker 2: they're going to come home each day now.

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Speaker 1: So erin a next twenty four hour you're going to

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Speaker 1: wait and see, or next forty eight hours, I guess

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Speaker 1: waiting to just keep an eye on things, I know.

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Speaker 1: The Commissioner has directed a number of different emergency actions,

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Speaker 1: including placing ten extra prisoners into the Darwin Police Watchhouse,

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Speaker 1: increasing Sector ten of the Darwin Correctional Center by twenty prisoners,

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Speaker 1: increasing the Alas Springs Reintegration Facility by an additional twenty prisoners,

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Speaker 1: the transferral of all those female prisoners from Alice Springs

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Speaker 1: to Darwin as a temporary measure. Are these things going

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Speaker 1: to help?

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Speaker 2: Well, the thing is you're just transferring or or increasing

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Speaker 2: prisoner numbers. The thing is, Katie, they're not increasing the

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Speaker 2: correctional officers. And this is the issue everyone keeps talking about.

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Speaker 2: This is a critical thing about prison numbers. The critical

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Speaker 2: thing is we don't have enough correctional officers to deal

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Speaker 2: with these increased numbers. And we haven't even started introducing

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Speaker 2: the new government's legislation yet.

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Speaker 1: All right, because I know, I understand that you've spoken

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Speaker 1: to the ABC a little bit earlier today and said

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Speaker 1: that it felt that you know that those legislative changes

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Speaker 1: were having an impact. I mean, we spoke to Nathan

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Speaker 1: f In a bit earlier this morning. You said it

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Speaker 1: was a bit too early for that to be the case.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you'd have to I mean, you would have

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Speaker 1: to agree that. To put it really bluntly, the current

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Speaker 1: government has inherited a bit of a shit show.

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Speaker 2: Oh look absolutely. But what I'm saying, Katie, is all

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Speaker 2: the stuff about increased prisoners, this is part of management's job,

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Speaker 2: the executive of correction. So regardless of what government in

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Speaker 2: governments in they have to risk mitigate this and this

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Speaker 2: hasn't been done. And this is what my delegates, my members,

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Speaker 2: the health and faifety representatives have all been saying for

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Speaker 2: years and years. There is no continuously paying for a

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Speaker 2: large scale riots or incident or for increase numb prisoner

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Speaker 2: numbers has not existed. And now this is where we

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Speaker 2: are in trouble now.

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Speaker 1: So where we're at right now, and you know the

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Speaker 1: concern around a riot, the concern around correctional service numbers.

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Speaker 1: What is there anything that could be happening right now

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Speaker 1: aside from what the Commissioner has already announced, Eerin from

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Speaker 1: your perspective, is there anything that could be happening right

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Speaker 1: now to try to calm this situation down.

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Speaker 2: I think what we need to do, Katie, is ensure

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Speaker 2: that we've got the risk assessments on all these changes

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Speaker 2: because they weren't in place and Friday, they weren't even drafted.

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Speaker 2: The union and the Health and Safety Reps had to

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Speaker 2: demand that under the Work Health and Safety legislation. But

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Speaker 2: we need to be sitting down with the Commissioner and saying, Okay,

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Speaker 2: where can we put more officers? Where can we get

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Speaker 2: more officers. We've got officers, you know, we've got community corrections,

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Speaker 2: we've got chief correctional officers, we've got duty deputy superintendent.

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Speaker 2: They need to be coming on the floor as well. Yep,

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Speaker 2: that's the extra thirty or forty officers, right, So.

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Speaker 1: Get that middle management, get all that of the mob

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Speaker 1: in on the ground. Yeah, do you reckon they're going

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Speaker 1: to do that?

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Speaker 2: I don't know that. We need to have those discussions

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Speaker 2: and we're not having them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, So that's really what staff are looking for

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Speaker 1: right now. They are waiting to see whether that is

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Speaker 1: something that happens over the next twenty four hours or so.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and that's real leadership there. That's what they're looking for.

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Speaker 2: They're looking for a direction to say everybody's then it's

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Speaker 2: not just coming from correctional officers who are worried about

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Speaker 2: their safety. We're putting everybody in. Every person, every correction

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Speaker 2: officer will be working while we deal with this erina.

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Speaker 1: If that industrial action is taken and if we wind

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Speaker 1: up in a situation where correctional stuff do walk off

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Speaker 1: the job in protest of what is going on, what

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Speaker 1: happens with the prisoners, do they do they go into lockdown.

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Speaker 2: That's usually a process that will be the decision of

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Speaker 2: the Commission of Ali but that's usually what happens.

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Speaker 1: And how long could a could that strike action last.

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Speaker 2: Well under the will be under the workhelse and fafety yet,

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Speaker 2: because that's where members are concerned about their safety at work.

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Speaker 2: It could it could go for an hour, it could

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Speaker 2: go it could go for days.

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Speaker 1: What do you reckon it should like, how long do

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Speaker 1: you reckon it should go for until.

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Speaker 2: They've actually got increased correctional officer numbers where they sell

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Speaker 2: safe to go back to work.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, So, by the sounds of it, from what

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Speaker 1: you're saying to me this morning, the immediate thing that

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Speaker 1: could happen to increase those numbers of guards and of

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Speaker 1: those correctional officers on the ground, you know, in the

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Speaker 1: prisons right now or in those correctional facilities right now,

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Speaker 1: it is to get middle management into some of those

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Speaker 1: operational roles assisting absolutely now, Erina, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: the biggest concern at the moment, and we've touched on

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Speaker 1: this already, but biggest concern is we do not want

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Speaker 1: to see any writing and we really want to make

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Speaker 1: sure that correctional staff are kept safe. Are you confident

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Speaker 1: that that can happen.

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Speaker 2: At this stage? No, I don't think my members are

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Speaker 2: safe at all.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean that's it's a big call. But as

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Speaker 1: I said, you and I have been talking about this

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Speaker 1: for the last couple of weeks.

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Speaker 2: That's right, we've been talking about it for you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we have we have to be really fair. We

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Speaker 1: certainly have been talking about it for years. And I

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Speaker 1: know that you know that the government announce their longer

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Speaker 1: term plans, but that's going to take a while to

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Speaker 1: come to fruition. We spoke as well last week about

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Speaker 1: those about the correctional officer numbers. I mean we're yet

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Speaker 1: to see those increased. It's not going to happen overnight.

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Speaker 1: Is there any movement in terms of the recruitment of

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Speaker 1: those officers? Do you think or you know, where are

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Speaker 1: we at with all of that? So?

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Speaker 2: I do believe that the Department of Corrections is they've

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Speaker 2: got to recruit squad at the moment is they're continually recruiting.

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Speaker 2: Where the issue is too people are coming here and

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Speaker 2: either they're not lighting the NT they're as you mentioned,

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Speaker 2: they're having pay issues. There's a toxic workplaces because of

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Speaker 2: the overcrowding, still being short staffed. There's all these factors

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Speaker 2: that impacting and people are leaving.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, look, it's it's just a bit of a debarcle,

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Speaker 1: I guess at the moment in terms of what is

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Speaker 1: going on. Erin before I let you go. If we

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Speaker 1: do see a situation where our correctional stuff take industrial action,

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Speaker 1: are they going to walk out of the watchhouses as well,

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Speaker 1: because that'll be a pretty critical thing.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's going to be the instruction from my members.

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Speaker 2: But at this stage, my members have a vibe Alice

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Speaker 2: Springs and Darwin will be walking out, which could include

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Speaker 2: the watchhouses as well.

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Speaker 1: So that will then fall on the police.

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Speaker 2: Well, we'll be talking very close with Nathan because we

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Speaker 2: don't want to put the jeopardy of the police safety.

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Speaker 2: But I need to have instructions from members. But we

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Speaker 2: were seriously considering the safety of the police. We don't

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Speaker 2: want to have another workers life in jeopardy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah absolutely, And yeah, look I would totally agree, and

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Speaker 1: I think that you know, at the moment, there's probably

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Speaker 1: a lot of goodwill towards our correctional officers, but I

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Speaker 1: just wonder whether that would shift to some degree if

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Speaker 1: we wind up with pressure on everybody as a result

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Speaker 1: of industrial action.

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Speaker 2: No, all, that's right. Unfortunately, we shouldn't be looking like

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Speaker 2: badly at corrections. You should actually be looking at the

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Speaker 2: organization to put them in that position. And that's what

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Speaker 2: often people do when our workers take straight They blame

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Speaker 2: the workers, but it actually we should be looking at

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Speaker 2: the employers for their behavior.

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Speaker 1: I guess, just to play devil's advocate here, I mean,

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Speaker 1: what do you reckon? The department could have done differently

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Speaker 1: to avoid this situation.

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Speaker 2: O Katie. What they should have done is actually sat

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Speaker 2: down with the unions straight away. And so we've got

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Speaker 2: an issue here. I know that we've got short staff

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Speaker 2: and how can we work this together. Everything's about, oh

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Speaker 2: we've had discussions. Here we go, this is what we're

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Speaker 2: going to do. Here is our emergency measures, etc. They've

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Speaker 2: done this because they know they didn't want to be

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Speaker 2: in a situation where we could actually say no, that

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Speaker 2: doesn't work, this is the way to do it. There's

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Speaker 2: been no consultation. We're just being both in at They

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Speaker 2: keep trying to say they're consulting with us, but sending

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Speaker 2: us a piece of paper having a little bit of

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Speaker 2: a meeting. That's not consultation, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, So, Erina, when do you reckon we're going to

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Speaker 1: know whether this industrial action is happening? Would it be

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Speaker 1: by the savo?

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Speaker 2: I reckon we'll even though late this afternoon or tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: All right. Well, by the sounds of it, you and

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Speaker 1: I could be talking again very soon. I always appreciate

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Speaker 1: your time. Thanks so much for having a chat with

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Speaker 1: me this morning. Thank you you Tube