1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:09,159 Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 2: answers Now. Hello, Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. My 4 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 2: name is doctor Justin Colson. Every Wednesday we bring you 5 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 2: an interview with somebody who knows stuff that you need 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 2: to know so that you can make you family happier. Today, 7 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 2: an interview with an author, in fact, the world's leading 8 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 2: most recognized academic thinker. I would have loved to have 9 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 2: had him with me to have this conversation, but some 10 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 2: people are just a bit too hard to get a 11 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,599 Speaker 2: hold of. And so what I've done today is lent 12 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:40,480 Speaker 2: heavily on a podcast interview that Professor Jonathan Hate from 13 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 2: New York University had with Barry Weiss on The Honesty Podcast. 14 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 2: I'm going to just share a couple of quick snippets 15 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 2: of what he had to say, share a few of 16 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 2: my own ideas around that as well, and hopefully have 17 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: a really constructive conversation that sounds like an interview based 18 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 2: on his brand new book, The Anxious Generation. So let 19 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 2: me tell you a bit about who Jonathan is. Many 20 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 2: years ago I read one of his first books. I 21 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 2: think it might have even been his first book. It 22 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 2: was called The Happiness Hypothesis. It remains to this day 23 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 2: my favorite book about well being and happiness. The guy 24 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 2: is just a phenomenal thinker and such a clear communicator. 25 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 2: You might also have heard of Jonathan Hyde in his 26 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 2: book The Righteous Mind or The Coddling of the American Mind. 27 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 2: The new book is called The Anxious Generation. I've pre 28 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 2: ordered mine. The book has now come out. I still 29 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 2: haven't received my pre ordered one. That's one of the 30 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 2: disadvantages sometimes we need to do a pre order. You 31 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 2: missed out. But Professor Hudt has been absolutely blitzing podcasts 32 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 2: and media writer around the world and has reached so 33 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:42,960 Speaker 2: many people. He also has a free sub stack called 34 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 2: after Babel. You can subscribe and support the work that 35 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 2: he does. I recommend it. It's absolutely brilliant. So let's 36 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 2: get onto the conversation that he had with Barry Weiss 37 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 2: of the Honestly podcast. Honestly with Barry Weiss, part of 38 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 2: the Free Press. This is what he had to say 39 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 2: when Barry Weiss asked him, Jonathan, where is the anxiety 40 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 2: with this Anxious Generation coming from? 41 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: It's all the little small stuff that was unpleasant as 42 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: a child, so it's being excluded. It's vital that kids 43 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: be excluded. Can you imagine? So, I'm sorry, your daughter 44 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 1: is what howled two? Three? 45 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:19,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, she's less than two. 46 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're not at the excluding mean girl's face yet. Okay, 47 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: but Barry, so supposed we'll get there. That's right, you will. 48 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: And so given that she's going to get there, if 49 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,399 Speaker 1: I gave you the option, I said, if you sign 50 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: this deal, I can guarantee that she will never face 51 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: exclusion before her eighteenth birthday. Would you sign it? No, right, 52 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: because we know intuitively that they have to experience it 53 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: otherwise it's going to be devastating when they're eighteen. And 54 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: it's the same thing for let's say losing. It's very 55 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: important that children lose a lot in competitive games. Now. 56 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: I remember when my kids were young. It was very 57 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: painful for them to lose. They sometimes get upset, but 58 00:02:58,040 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: after a while then they just you know, then they 59 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: get used to it. And now you can have a 60 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: lot more fun because they know, you know, we're going 61 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,239 Speaker 1: to play twenty games and I'm going to lose a 62 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: bunch of them and win a bunch of them. So 63 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: winning and losing being excluded certainly you know, falling down 64 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: and getting hurt, and then getting hurt when there's no 65 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: adults around. So you know, like I remember crashing on 66 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: my basicll and you have to kind of limp home 67 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: and maybe the paddle is bent, but you get home 68 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: and then you realize, oh, I can do that, I 69 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: can get home. 70 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 2: I really love this conversation. The idea that there are 71 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 2: healthy stresses in the environment. Now, we've got pretty good 72 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 2: research that shows that if we experience way too much 73 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 2: stress at a developmentally inappropriate age or just in an 74 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 2: inappropriate way, that stress can lead to negative outcomes. But 75 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 2: that's not what he's talking about here. And what people 76 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 2: like me and obviously Jonathan Hydt and many others who 77 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 2: do this kind of work have seen is that increasingly, 78 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 2: as we invest more and more into our children, that 79 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 2: parental investment is very much oriented towards protecting our children 80 00:03:56,040 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 2: from healthy stresses, the kind of stresses that build resilience 81 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 2: and reduce anxiety. In fact, not in that part of 82 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 2: the interview, but certainly in research that I've read, there 83 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 2: is good data that shows that when our children are 84 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 2: exposed to appropriate, developmentally appropriate and healthy stresses, they do better. 85 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 2: They're less likely to experience anxiety disorders, they're more likely 86 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 2: to thrive. There's a metaphor and analogy that I use 87 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 2: when I'm giving my presentations on resilience in schools and 88 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,280 Speaker 2: in organizations, and I use the idea of a balance beam. 89 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 2: So when your children are walking through life, metaphorically, they're 90 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 2: walking across a balance beam. Some parents, when they see 91 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 2: their child start to overbalance, maybe lean a little too 92 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 2: far out the left or right, they kind of stand 93 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 2: back and say, well, you're going to figure this out, kiddo, 94 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 2: And sometimes their kids fall and they hit the ground. 95 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 2: The difficulty with that, I'm going to call it the 96 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 2: tough en up princess approach to building resilience is research 97 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 2: shows it doesn't work. Sometimes that fall is too far 98 00:04:55,800 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 2: developmentally inappropriate, too hard, and it's so important that his 99 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 2: parents were discerning enough to recognize that it's not going 100 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 2: to be in our kid's best interest to keep on 101 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 2: falling off the balance beam of life. Don't see that 102 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 2: happening as much as it used to. What I see 103 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 2: happening a lot more now is that parents will get 104 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:15,679 Speaker 2: up onto the balance beam with their kids and carry 105 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 2: them across. But you cannot carry your kids through life, 106 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 2: and that's why it's just so important. In fact, that 107 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 2: creates something called the cycle of incompetence, which we're going 108 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 2: to talk about in just a sec What I encourage 109 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 2: parents to do is to walk alongside their children as 110 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 2: they're up on that beam, and as their child starts 111 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 2: to overbalance, it's completely appropriate to put your hand up 112 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 2: on their leg, on their thigh and say, hey, just 113 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 2: lean on me for a second while you regain your bearings, 114 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 2: regain your balance, Let's work out how you can take 115 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 2: the next step on your own. Then you take your 116 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 2: hand away, and your kids take those steps on their 117 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 2: own with a supportive, loving, compassionate adult beside them. All 118 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 2: the very best work on resilience shows that the kids 119 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 2: who are most resilient are the ones who have at 120 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 2: least one significant supportive adult in their life. But those 121 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 2: adults don't do the work for them. They also just 122 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 2: make sure that they don't fall and crash, or if 123 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 2: they do that it's not too hard that there's something 124 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 2: supporting that landing. I think it's so important if we 125 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 2: want to move away from raising an anxious generation, that 126 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 2: we get the balance right. If you're pardon the pun. Now. 127 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 2: The second highlight from the conversation that Jonathan Hight had 128 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 2: with the Honestly Podcast and Barry Weiss related to a 129 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 2: concept called anti fragility. There's a book called anti Fragile. 130 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 2: It's on my bookshelf. It's by Nasim Nicholas taylorb. And 131 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 2: the idea of anti fragile goes like this. We often 132 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 2: think that the opposite of resilience is fragility, but that's 133 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 2: not entirely true. See resilience. If we look at it 134 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 2: from an engineering perspective, you build a resilient house, a 135 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 2: resilient bridge, a resilience stadium or road. And what that 136 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 2: means is that when the traffic or the weight, or 137 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 2: the rain or the floods or whatever it is, when 138 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 2: those things hit it, it stays firm. Fragile means that 139 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 2: when adversity strikes you break down. Now, staying firm is 140 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 2: not the opposite of breaking down. Getting stronger is the 141 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 2: opposite of breaking down. But we don't have a word 142 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 2: for it in English, and so tailored Nasim Tailor calls 143 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 2: it anti fragility, being anti fragile. And that's what this 144 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 2: second clip is all about. How we help our kids 145 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 2: to be anti fragile. 146 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: So because we came to see our children as vulnerable 147 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: or fragile rather than anti fragile. If you see you 148 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: because it's anti fragile, say go out and play. And 149 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: if they say you know, it's called that you said, 150 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: you know, tough it out, or you know, if they 151 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: fall and say you know, you're okay, go back. So 152 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: that's what you would do. If you think kids are 153 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: anti fragile, but I think kids are fragile, you're going 154 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: to never leave them in supervise, which means they never 155 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: learn to work things out for themselves, and you're going 156 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: to swoop in at this first sign of trouble. And 157 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: so what happens if you assume that they're incompetent and fragile, 158 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: then they don't have the experience that would make them 159 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: competent and non fragile. So you're actually making them incompetent 160 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: and fragile. And then you look at these incompetent, fragile, 161 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: you know, fifth graders, you say, well, how can we 162 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: trust you? You know, I can't let you, I can't let 163 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:04,119 Speaker 1: you walk to the store. What if you get lost? 164 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: It's a sacred it's a vicious sacrale, and so that's 165 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: what we have to break. 166 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 2: So I really love a handful of elements in here. 167 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 2: One of the central things that I'd highlight is what 168 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 2: we've got is one of the world's leading thinkers saying 169 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 2: a little bit of tough love is okay for your kids. Now, 170 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 2: this isn't any kind of neglectful or abusive or aggressive 171 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 2: tough love. Rather, it's acknowledging that the everyday bumps and 172 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 2: scrapes of life can be gotten over by our children, 173 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 2: and we shouldn't make too big a deal of them. 174 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 2: The more we make their emotions king, and the more 175 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,199 Speaker 2: we make their discomfort a problem that needs to be fixed, 176 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 2: the less anti fragile, the more fragile they become, and 177 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 2: the more we perpetuate that cycle of incompetence. We need 178 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 2: to get comfortable with our kids being uncomfortable in an understanding, appropriate, caring, 179 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,559 Speaker 2: compassionate way. But we still need to say, and I 180 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 2: do this all the time with my kids. When they've 181 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 2: hurt themselves, I'll say, oh, kiddo, that looks like it 182 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 2: really hurt. Come and give me hu. I'll give them 183 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 2: a hug, and then I'll say, all right, off you go. 184 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 2: It looks like you'll be okay now, so they can 185 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 2: still be that kindness and that warmth, that nurture, that relatedness, 186 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 2: the mattering and belonging. That's all part of it. But 187 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 2: ultimately we're saying, I have faith in your ability to 188 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 2: figure this out and to move ahead with it. As 189 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 2: we encourage our kids to become more competent, they get 190 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 2: out of that cycle. But we need to understand why 191 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,959 Speaker 2: we are uncomfortable. What is it in us that's causing 192 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:33,839 Speaker 2: us to be so uncomfortable with our children experiencing hardship, difficulty, challenge. 193 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 2: As we get comfortable with them having that difficulty and 194 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 2: having that growth, they're much more likely to figure this out. 195 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 2: In just a secon we're going to talk about how 196 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 2: the adolescent brain changes during the teen years and the 197 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 2: impact of social media on those changes. It's The Happy 198 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 2: Families Podcasts. It's The Happy Family's podcast with me doctor 199 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 2: Justin Colson, and some snippets from an interview with Professor 200 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 2: Jonathan Hype from New York University, the author of The 201 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 2: Anxious Generation, talking with the Free Presses Barry Weiss on 202 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,719 Speaker 2: the Honestly with Barry Weiss podcast everybody knows that the 203 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 2: adolescent brain changes so much during those teen years, but 204 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 2: what's the impact of social media on those changes. Jonathan 205 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 2: Hate explains this to Barry Weiss in the Honestly podcast. 206 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: The brain grows very quickly in the first few years 207 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 1: of life, and then it actually slows down a lot, 208 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: and from then on it's not so much growth. It's 209 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: more it's rewiring. It's neurons connecting, its synapses forming, it's 210 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,959 Speaker 1: neurons feeding away, you know, if they're not used. So 211 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: there's a lot of rewiring going on, and that speeds 212 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: up during puberty. There was especially early puberty around each 213 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: eleven or twelve to around fifteen sixteen, and there's a 214 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: huge amount of change as the brain basically, you know, 215 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: sort of like a caterpillar trending into a butterfly. You 216 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: have the young form of a human brain kind of rewires. 217 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: Now that it's learned culture, it sort of rewires to 218 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: lock down into the format of an American or a 219 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: suite or whatever. And this is exactly the period, unfortunately, 220 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: when we put our kids on social media and let 221 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: random weirdness on the Internet control how their brain is rewiring. 222 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: One of the main things that is happening is in 223 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 1: the prefrontal cortex. That's the last part to really go 224 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: through the change, which is the seat of executive function. 225 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: That is the ability to formulate a goal, figure out 226 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: the means to achieve the goal, and then execute the 227 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: plan to achieve the goal. So if you want to 228 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: do your homework, you know, I know, I want to 229 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: watch this TV show at ten o'clock tonight, so I 230 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: an hour. I better do my homework. I have one hour. 231 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: You know, kids struggle to do that, especially if you 232 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: don't love doing your homework. It's going to take concentration 233 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: and willpower to stay on task. But what happens you 234 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: have an infinite number of really fun digital experiences just 235 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 1: waiting for you if you touch the right buttons. But 236 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: it's much more than that, because you don't have to 237 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: touch the right buttons. The pop ups are going to 238 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: be popping up saying come play, come out, come, look 239 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: look what someone just said about you. So they're getting 240 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: I think on average now, two hundred and fifty notifications 241 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: a day is what American teens now get. That's two 242 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,599 Speaker 1: hundred fifty times a day that their attention is interrupted. 243 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: Most of them don't put it on a focus mode. 244 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: They just take it as normal that any company that 245 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: wants to take some of their attention can just take it. 246 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: So it was always hard for teens to focus and 247 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,319 Speaker 1: do their homework or do anything. But doing that gives 248 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: you practice in doing it, and if you do it repeatedly, 249 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: you're actually helping your brain to develop good executive function. 250 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: So what would happen if you have a teen who 251 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: never gets to practice that, They literally never get an 252 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: hour without an interruption. I think it could lead to 253 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: permanent decrements in their ability to function as an adult. 254 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 2: I think that it's important to highlight that we don't 255 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 2: know yet. It's still too early, but it's a reasonable 256 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 2: supposition that Jonathan Hyde identifies here two hundred and fifty 257 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 2: notifications a day. I've watched my kids and how much 258 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 2: their phones doing, and my kids are pretty light on 259 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 2: compared to what I see in other places. This point 260 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 2: about pacticing, ignoring, helping kids to recognize that they don't 261 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 2: have to respond to every message the second it comes through. 262 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 2: That they can leave things on read or even on 263 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 2: unread for more than five or ten minutes, In fact, 264 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 2: for an hour or two letting them sit with that, 265 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 2: letting them learn how to do that is such a 266 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 2: vital skill and it will be good for their wellbeing. 267 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 2: So the last thing that I'm going to share with 268 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 2: you is we wrap up this really important conversation from 269 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 2: Jonathan Highte and what's going on in his book The 270 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:32,959 Speaker 2: Anxious Generation, Why our kids are struggling so much. We're 271 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 2: going to talk about this idea of social media addiction. 272 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 2: When I wrote my book Ten Things Every Parent Needs 273 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,079 Speaker 2: to Know, I made it really clear that addiction is 274 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 2: a bit of a funny word in psychological terms, and 275 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 2: most of the time researchers try to avoid it unless 276 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,839 Speaker 2: they're genuinely talking about addiction. The more appropriate term, which 277 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 2: I hate will mentioned just to se is problematic internet use. 278 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 2: And I wrote an entire chapter about this idea and 279 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 2: even included, with the permission of the author of the scale, 280 00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:59,839 Speaker 2: a way of measuring whether or not your child is 281 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 2: it experiencing problematic Internet use. But he's Jonathan had from 282 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 2: his conversation with Barry Weiss and the Honestly podcast talking 283 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 2: about social media addiction and whether it's the thing. 284 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: The better term to use is what they call problematic use. 285 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: So you know, if you're spending four hours a day 286 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: on Instagram, but you're still seeing your friends, you're still 287 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: getting good grades in class, you know it's a time suck, 288 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: but you can't say that it's interfering with basically love 289 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: and work, of the two areas that psychologists look at, 290 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: love and work basically relationships and either you know, work 291 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: or school work. So if you're doing fine on those, well, okay, 292 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: you know that's maybe it's your choice. But wherever we look, 293 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: the numbers come up between five and fifteen percent as 294 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: having problematic use. So video games are tremendous fun. You know, 295 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: boys really defend them and they don't want them taken away, 296 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: but it turns out about five to fifteen percent have 297 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: problematic use where they can't stop. They're surly with their parents. 298 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: If they're deprived for a day or two, they get 299 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: really surly and maybe even aggressive. It's interfering with their 300 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: school work, with their ability to function with friends. So 301 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: people say, oh, you know, my kids are fine or 302 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: you know whats kids are doing? Okay, sure most are, 303 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: but can you think of any consumer product in the 304 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: world where if there was a one to ten chance 305 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: that your kid uses it, they're going to get hooked 306 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: and have problematic behavior to the point where it's going 307 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: to interfere with other life domeins. And if they do 308 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: it for two or three hours a day over many years, 309 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: it could change the brain development. Is there any other 310 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: product that we would ever let our kids use? So 311 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: that's the way I think about it. 312 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 2: It's such a great communicator that final point brings at home. 313 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 2: That's one thing to say there's five or ten percent 314 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 2: of kids who have this challenge, But when you talk 315 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 2: about creating a product and allowing them to use it 316 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 2: knowing that, it really shifts the conversation. I think this 317 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 2: book is going to be one of the most important 318 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 2: books to be published this year. If you haven't ordered already, 319 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 2: it's called The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Hate. I would 320 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 2: encourage you to check it out. I can't wait to 321 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 2: tell you about my review of it once mine finally 322 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: arrives and I get to talk about it. But because 323 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 2: it's been so topical, I really wanted to bring you 324 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 2: those snippets and create the conversation for you in your 325 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 2: home with your kids around such a challenging idea. The 326 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 2: Happy Family's podcast is back Tomorrow. We've started a new segment. 327 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 2: Once a month, we ask the question is it just me? Tomorrow? 328 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 2: Is it just me? Or am I the only one 329 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,119 Speaker 2: not interested in intimacy with my partner? We've got your reactions, 330 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 2: your comments, and a few tips and ideas from Kylie 331 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 2: and I as we answer the question is it just me? 332 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 2: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Rawland from 333 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. For more 334 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 2: information about making your family happier, please visit us at 335 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 2: happy families dot com dot au.