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Speaker 1: New research just published from the National Child Health Pole

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Speaker 1: looks at how kids are sleeping and the study will

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Speaker 1: blow you away. Today we talk about your kids and

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Speaker 1: their sleep. Welcome to the Happy Families Podcasts, Real parenting

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Speaker 1: solutions every day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcasts. We

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Speaker 1: are Justin and Kylie Coulson.

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Speaker 2: Sleep deprivation is one of the cruelest forms of torture

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Speaker 2: that exists in human society. How many times do you

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Speaker 2: think we've walked around like zombies because we haven't got

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Speaker 2: enough sleep.

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Speaker 1: So it's one of the three pillars of good physical health. Okay, Diet, yes, nutrition, Yes,

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Speaker 1: sleep is one of those three pillars that are completely

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Speaker 1: necessary for us to do well.

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Speaker 2: You know that diet and nutrition are the same things, right,

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Speaker 2: I guessing you meant.

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Speaker 1: Did I not say exercise? I got a text from

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Speaker 1: JR the other day. No, when we were recording podcast recently,

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Speaker 1: you got something wrong. I pulled you up on it.

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Speaker 1: You said no, no, no, no, we rigged it anyway.

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Speaker 2: And we got it wrong again.

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Speaker 1: Well, JR texted me because I said to him, JR,

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Speaker 1: when you edit this, just let me know was I

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Speaker 1: right or not? And I haven't told you until now,

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Speaker 1: But I was right, you got it wrong. And I

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Speaker 1: just felt a little bit superior. As I got the

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Speaker 1: text message. I was like, yes, Kylie got it wrong,

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Speaker 1: and I was right that Kylie got it wrong. And

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Speaker 1: now you've got me and I don't even need JR.

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Speaker 1: To tell me. JR played the sound effect anyway, please. So,

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Speaker 1: diet and exercise are the two pillars that we hear

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Speaker 1: about most, but sleep is the third pillar, and it's

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Speaker 1: so overlooked, inappropriately, wrongly, and we've got to get this

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Speaker 1: thing right. Oh, by the way, when parents say what's

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Speaker 1: the one thing that I can do to be a

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Speaker 1: better parent, I don't actually talk about all the parenting stuff,

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Speaker 1: you know, not what I talk about getting enough sleep? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: getting enough sleep. The National Child Health Poll has got

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Speaker 1: some really fascinating stats, and I want to you throw

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Speaker 1: a couple of them because it's pretty it's pretty compelling stuff.

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Speaker 1: The study revealed that forty two percent of children, this

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Speaker 1: is a study across sixteen hundred parents, looking at sixteen

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Speaker 1: hundred families, forty two percent of children have problems with

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Speaker 1: their sleep patents. Forty two percent. That's nearly half of

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Speaker 1: all families are identifying children who have problems with their

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Speaker 1: sleep patterns.

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Speaker 2: Did the study actually look into what is predominantly causing.

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Speaker 1: Well, they talked about some other things that could be

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Speaker 1: causing it, and it seems that families are kind of

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Speaker 1: missing the memos. So here's a little bit of what

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Speaker 1: I mean by that. Forty seven percent of parents believe

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Speaker 1: that screen time helps kids wind down. Oh oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: so almost it does.

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Speaker 2: Is it helps mom and dad wind down because my

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Speaker 2: kids occupied, it's quiet, right, and there's this there's this

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Speaker 2: illusion that we're winding down.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so physically we are. Make no mistake, the brain

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Speaker 1: is not winding down if it's staring at a screen.

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Speaker 1: If you're staring at a screen, there's a whole lot

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Speaker 1: of stimulation that's going on, the visual input, the auditory input,

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Speaker 1: just the storytelling or whatever's happening on that screen, whether

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Speaker 1: it's a game, whether it's social media, or whether it's

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Speaker 1: a TV show.

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Speaker 2: So when we put a movie on at night and

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Speaker 2: I fall asleep halfway through it, it's because I am.

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Speaker 1: Exhausted, that's right, it's good, not because the movie is

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Speaker 1: for me to lay, just because you feel like it's

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Speaker 1: helping you to wind down. It's not it's just that

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Speaker 1: you're so tired. You should have gone to bed half

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Speaker 1: an hour ago and not even flicked the telly on,

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Speaker 1: and you would have fallen asleep just as fast, if

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Speaker 1: not faster. Yeah, so forty seven percent of parents believe

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Speaker 1: that screen time helps kids wind down. There's the blue light.

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Speaker 1: The research around blue light is not as robust as

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Speaker 1: I had previously thought, but it's still a thing, right.

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Speaker 1: It suppresses some melotone and release a little bit. Melotone

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Speaker 1: is the sleep hormone that makes you want to not off.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that it's having a massive impact, but

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Speaker 1: it's more the excitation and stimulation of the screen and

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Speaker 1: the content that's on the screen. Kids going like, woh, well,

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Speaker 1: fully wired and that's what's going on. Don't give you

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Speaker 1: kids screens when it's time to wind down. It's not

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Speaker 1: going to help. Another one that really blew me away.

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Speaker 1: The research shows that there's a strong connection between caffeine

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Speaker 1: consumption after lunch and sleep difficulties. And in the study

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Speaker 1: they found that parents are pretty relaxed about the kids

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Speaker 1: having caffeine in the afternoon and in the evening. Children

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Speaker 1: who consume caffeine after lunch. According to the National Child

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Speaker 1: Health Pole, or who use screens before bed are about

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Speaker 1: twice as likely to have difficulty getting to sleep.

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Speaker 2: So when you talk about caffeine specifically, what are we

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Speaker 2: talking about, like what children are having a cup of coffee?

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Speaker 2: Are we talking No? I mean well, fuzzy drink.

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Speaker 1: Increasingly, I'm seeing this happen all the time. Parents of

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Speaker 1: kids who are in their teens are increasingly relaxed about

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Speaker 1: their kids having coffee. I'm not a health nutrition diet

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Speaker 1: expert my PhDs in psychology, but what I have read

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Speaker 1: and what I do understand sends a pretty clear signal

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Speaker 1: because psychological studies look at the impact of caffeine on

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Speaker 1: our psychology, and sleep is part of psychology as well

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Speaker 1: as part of biology. Everything. Everything that I've said is

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Speaker 1: that you should not be giving children caffeine, period, full stop,

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Speaker 1: even teenagers. It's not good for them. I know some

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Speaker 1: people are going to roll their eyes and go, oh doe,

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Speaker 1: was we going to do anything with that kids? Well,

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Speaker 1: you actually can, and there's plenty of substitute drinks for example,

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Speaker 1: or foods that are not coffee or not caffeinated that

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Speaker 1: the kids can still absolutely enjoy There's just from my perspective,

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Speaker 1: there's no excuse for giving kids caffeine in their drinks,

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Speaker 1: and also energy drinks. Any drinks are another example of

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Speaker 1: what's going on there. So that's something else that the

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Speaker 1: Child Health Poll found that I think is just staggering

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Speaker 1: and really really important. After the break, three more findings

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Speaker 1: that are going to blow you, okay, Kylie. The National

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Speaker 1: Child Health Pole looking at kids and sleep, Forty two

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Speaker 1: percent of children aged five to seventeen have a problem

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Speaker 1: with their sleeping pattern. Kids have got to go to

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Speaker 1: bed around about the same time every night and get

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Speaker 1: up around about the same time every morning. That's your

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Speaker 1: sleeping pattern. If you can do that, your quality of

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Speaker 1: sleep increases, Your duration of sleep should be about right,

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Speaker 1: and ideally you're going to have much greater health as

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Speaker 1: a result. I've already mentioned the link between caffeine in

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Speaker 1: the afternoons and difficulty getting to sleep, as well as

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Speaker 1: screens before bed. They just shouldn't be screens about an

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Speaker 1: hour before bed. That's really I think got to be

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Speaker 1: the rule no screens in bedrooms. Especially to listen to

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Speaker 1: this one. One quarter of children have difficulty getting to

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Speaker 1: sleep and one in five don't have a regular bedtime.

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Speaker 2: I find this intriguing because we've done so many podcasts

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Speaker 2: over the years talking about overscheduled children. And when I

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Speaker 2: think about oversheddling children, they're kind of run from pillar

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Speaker 2: to post. They've got long hours after school with training

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Speaker 2: and you know, multiple activities, and the idea that they

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Speaker 2: wouldn't be able to fall asleep after such a grueling

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Speaker 2: intrigues me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's got to do with screens and

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Speaker 1: probably has to do with what they're eating when they're

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Speaker 1: eating it, essentially what they're consuming. Big issue there, and

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Speaker 1: again the consistency of bedtime is super important. A couple

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Speaker 1: of other things came out of the pole that are

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Speaker 1: important for us to discuss as briefly. Almost half of

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Speaker 1: parents forty six percent of parents believe that too much

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Speaker 1: sleep is bad for teens, and a third of parents

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Speaker 1: think that teens who can't get up for school are lazy.

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Speaker 1: Love this one.

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Speaker 2: I can see where parents would be concerned about their

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Speaker 2: kids having too much sleep. The problem is not too

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Speaker 2: much sleep as much as it's the timing that they

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Speaker 2: choose to sleep. So, when we understand the biology of

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Speaker 2: our teenagers and recognize that melatonin secretions happen much later

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Speaker 2: in the day. For our teenage kids. What we're finding

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Speaker 2: is they're often going to bed way later than would

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Speaker 2: be ideal for us, most cases ideal for the parent,

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Speaker 2: which means they're then wanting to sleep in much later

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Speaker 2: in the morning to make up for their eight to

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Speaker 2: ten hours of sleep that they need.

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Speaker 1: Well, let me add to that, as adults, our body

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Speaker 1: starts to secrete melatonin as the sun goes down. That's

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Speaker 1: that whole circadian rhythm thing. Okay, melatonin makes us feel

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Speaker 1: a bit sleepy. That's why as a parent, if you're

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Speaker 1: north of about thirty years of age, certainly anytime after

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Speaker 1: thirty five, you get to about eight thirty at night

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Speaker 1: and its lights out, like you're done. This is why

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Speaker 1: we're so happy to put our kids to bed at

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Speaker 1: seven o'clock, right because we're going to get an hour

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Speaker 1: on our own and then we're going to crash out

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Speaker 1: because we're so tired. Our body produces melotonin to put

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Speaker 1: us to sleep, and throughout the night it produces less

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Speaker 1: and less melotonin, so that we're waking up and I

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Speaker 1: don't know, five o'clock, four thirty five thirty something like that.

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Speaker 1: For our teenagers, though, the body secretes that melatonin an

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Speaker 1: hour to two hours later, so we're exhausted at eight thirty,

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Speaker 1: they're still good to go at nine nine thirty, that's

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Speaker 1: when it starts to kick in. If they're on a screen,

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Speaker 1: they're even less lightly to be sleepy because not only

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Speaker 1: is there not much melotonin buzzing around their body yet,

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Speaker 1: but they're so excited because of what's happening on the screen.

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Speaker 2: Well, they're getting all those dopamine hits, which is probably

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Speaker 2: countering any melatonin that's coming out exactly.

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Speaker 1: That's right. The thing is, you know when you try

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Speaker 1: to wake up a teenager and they every morning, multiple

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Speaker 1: of they're like oh, and then they roll over, they

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Speaker 1: sleep through anything. That's because in an adolescent, the melatonin

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Speaker 1: secret continues all night, so for us it easies.

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Speaker 2: Up unfair happen.

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Speaker 1: So that's why they wake up with such heavy eyes

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Speaker 1: because their body it's it's got to now spin all

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Speaker 1: these hormones around and give them that big shot of adrenaline.

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Speaker 1: It's got to give them that great, big shot of

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Speaker 1: epinephrine to get them going to the endorphin hit in

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Speaker 1: the morning. The cortisol hit.

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Speaker 2: It just all seems a bit unfair. Imagine if my

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Speaker 2: malatonin kicked in a little bit later, so I would

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Speaker 2: have more time to myself before I went to bed

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Speaker 2: because my children had gone to bed at eight thirty

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Speaker 2: when I want to go to bed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it happens like that for adults, because

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Speaker 1: if we were that droopy in the mornings as teenagers are,

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Speaker 1: we would not get up for our two year olds.

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Speaker 2: But I don't have two year olds, right, it makes

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Speaker 2: sense to me that I would have extra hours at night.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, There's so much more we could talk about with

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Speaker 1: the Royal Children's Hospital National Child Health Pole. It's really fascinating.

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Speaker 1: Here are the very short but very important action steps

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Speaker 1: if you want to have healthy sleep patterns for your children.

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Speaker 1: Number one good nic screens Well, okay, yeah, no screens.

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Speaker 1: That really doesn't It has to be Number one, no

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Speaker 1: screens for about an hour before bedtime, preferably longer. Number

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Speaker 1: two good sleep hygiene. What does that mean?

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Speaker 2: Same bedtime, same wake up time.

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Speaker 1: Cool, dark bedroom, nice and quiet. That's going to be

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Speaker 1: really helpful, really healthy. You've just mentioned the sleep patterns

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Speaker 1: as part of the hygiene thing. That is same wake

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Speaker 1: up time and same bedtime. And the last thing make

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Speaker 1: sure that you run them ragged during the day so

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Speaker 1: that they are ready for bed and have a really

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Speaker 1: soothing sleep routine. So there is the wine down time.

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Speaker 1: I know, with the younger kids particularly, we used to

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Speaker 1: love this. They'd have their bath, then they'd be story time,

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Speaker 1: then we'd sing them songs, then they'd be a prayer.

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Speaker 1: Then we'd lay on the bed beside them and pat

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Speaker 1: them off to sleep like that. That routine is so

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Speaker 1: nice and it makes such a difference. A bit harder

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Speaker 1: to do that with teenagers. They don't usually like it

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Speaker 1: when you sing to them a lullaby bedtime. We'll we'll

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Speaker 1: pat that back so much. But it's about creating that

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Speaker 1: routine so that the kids can feel safe. On Saturday,

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Speaker 1: a full conversation with one of the Royal Children's Hospital

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Speaker 1: National Child Health pol spokespeople, doctor Moya Vandeleur. She's a

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Speaker 1: respiratory and sleep pediatrician and she's going to walk us

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Speaker 1: through everything from the pole but also the other stuff

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Speaker 1: we need to know to help our kids to sleep well.

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Speaker 1: She'll also answer the question is it a good idea

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Speaker 1: to put the kids to bed with a warm glass

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Speaker 1: of milk because that's what my grandma used to always say,

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Speaker 1: and I had to find out from her. I don't

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Speaker 1: know whether it was true. I hope you'll joined us

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Speaker 1: on Saturday for that conversation. The Happy Families podcast is

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Speaker 1: produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media. More information and

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Speaker 1: more resources about making your family happier are available at

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Speaker 1: happy families dot com dot au.