1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: This is a podcast about failure with me. Lola Berry, author, nutritionist, 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: and yoga teacher, join me as we get to know 3 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: these guests and learn about how their failures have ultimately 4 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: shaped their dreams. 5 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 2: Welcome to Fearlessly Failing with Lola Berry. 6 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: Hello, this intro was coming to you from Newcastle. Yesterday, 7 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 1: the Boss and I got caught in the floods in Turrey. 8 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 3: It was pretty scary actually, like literally we were. 9 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: Driving past a paddock and we saw a car floating 10 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: beside us as if it was in a lake. And 11 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: we went over this big bridge and the water level 12 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: was almost at the height of the bridge, and all 13 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: you could see in the world were the very tops 14 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: of trees. It felt very horror movie esque and Boss 15 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,119 Speaker 1: made the call, is like, we've got to get out 16 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,199 Speaker 1: of here. We were told to sleep on the side 17 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,119 Speaker 1: of the road near Pacific Highway. Says the Pacific Highway 18 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: is blocked off at the moment, and Boss was like, no, no, 19 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,320 Speaker 1: We've got to get safe, got to go to Newcastle. 20 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: So we are waiting out here in Newcastle. But I 21 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: do want to send love to all those that are affected. 22 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: I imagine it is really really confronting and scary right now. 23 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: And I thought long and hard about bringing out today's guest, 24 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: but then I realized how inspiring they are and how 25 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: incredible they are, and so it seems like the perfect 26 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: time to put out a little inspiration into the universe. 27 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: Zoey Tarracus is an activist, an actor. They are freaking 28 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: incredible if you ask me, not just because if their 29 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: incredible skill as an actor, we're talking theater plays with 30 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: the Australian greats. Have You from the Bridge A Doll's 31 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: House Part two? Just a couple on top of that, 32 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: if you're a Wentworth fan, you are absolutely. 33 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 2: Going to know Zoe's work. 34 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: And then the new Nicole Kidman Show Nine Perfect Strangers, 35 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: Zoey's in that too, And then I keep saying, and then, 36 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: and then Zoe's only twenty one years old. 37 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 2: Zoe is a queer, non binary transactor. Zoe is unapologetically themselves. 38 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: I can't tell you how inspired I was just kind 39 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: of sitting in the presence of someone that is just 40 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 1: so real. I said this to Zoe, and I will 41 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: say it again here. Zoe is going to make a 42 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: dent on this world one thousand percent. It is so 43 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: rare that you see someone living so true to themselves 44 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: and then fighting for other people to be able to 45 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: live that same truth. Zoe, you had a massive impact 46 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: on me, and I know you're going to impact. 47 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 2: So many people. 48 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:03,679 Speaker 1: Keep doing whatever it is you dream to do, because 49 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: you're one of the real ones, You're one of the 50 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: magic ones. And this podcast was a total total honor, 51 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: big love. Okay, Zoe Tarracus, I've got to say, of 52 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: all the podcasts I'm doing in this trip, I'm the 53 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: most nervous to interview you because I've become such a fan, 54 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: not just from your work, but for everything that you 55 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: stand for. So I know you're an actor, you're an activist. 56 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: Can you like I've seen you do so many interviews 57 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: where you just interview, where you introduce yourself your pronoun 58 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: Can we start there? 59 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 4: Yes we can. Hello everyone. My name is Zoe Tarracus. 60 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 4: I am an actor and do a bit of activism stuff. 61 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 3: My pronouns are they them. 62 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 4: I'm trans, non binary and I'm also an aries on my. 63 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 2: Sh I knew this about you, my love they have 64 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 2: fire sign. 65 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. 66 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 2: I'm a virgo, so super earthy and a bit o 67 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 2: c D. 68 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. 69 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: Do you know the first time I learned about you 70 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: is from one of my drama teachers. 71 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 3: Demand the Myth the Legend. 72 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 2: Do you know what he had to say about you? 73 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 2: So he was taught. 74 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: He said, listen, actors are usually a lazy mob, and 75 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 1: he's like, there's this one actor, though, that is so driven, 76 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: so tenacious and always kind of like on the go 77 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: and like working towards something. 78 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 2: He was talking about you. 79 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 1: And I've heard you speak about him, and you've described 80 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: Ian as like pure magic pretty much. 81 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you got to work with him. And this 82 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 2: is the other thing. 83 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: I've got table for a press press record. I go 84 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: around timeline, so I know you've got to go with 85 00:04:58,440 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 1: him on view from a bridge. 86 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 2: Yes, how was that experience? Did you do it three times? 87 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 3: We did it more than three. 88 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 4: We did it the Old Fits, We did it at 89 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 4: Glenn Street, we did it at Melbourne Theater Company, we 90 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 4: did it Ensemble Theater, and we did it at Woollongong 91 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 4: Theater every time. 92 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 93 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 4: So the cast around me changed and the theater changed, 94 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 4: but me and Ian with it too consistent things. 95 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 2: I'm so jealous you got that much time with it. 96 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,239 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was like drama school, Like I knew nothing 97 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 4: before I started that job, like nothing. I remember in 98 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 4: one of the first rehearsals in the theater for the 99 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 4: first time we did it at the fits. 100 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 3: And was like, so we done? Can you get on voice? 101 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 3: And I was like what does that mean? And he 102 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 3: was like, oh God, Like I just knew nothing. 103 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 2: But that's that's that's what I love about E. 104 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: And he nurtures and absolutely so you wouldn't have felt 105 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: bad about it. 106 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 4: No, he just goes, Okay, well, I'll tell you this 107 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 4: is you know what I mean. Like he was so generous. 108 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 4: It was like three years of drama school in two 109 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 4: months or whatever it was. And every time we did it, 110 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 4: I felt like I was. 111 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 3: Doing it again for the first time. 112 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 4: Like I remember when we got to MTC for the 113 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 4: second version of it, and I was a little bit 114 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 4: cocky because no one else had done it and I 115 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 4: was the only one who'd done the play before, and 116 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 4: I was a bit like and then I was like, 117 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 4: oh my god, I don't I don't know this version 118 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 4: of the play. Like the play is so rich and 119 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 4: deep and Ian is so remarkable that you have to 120 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 4: start from square one again and learn it and love 121 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 4: it all over again. And we found so much more 122 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 4: in it the second time we did it, and then 123 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:35,919 Speaker 4: every time thereafter it was like deeper and richer and harder. 124 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was amazing. 125 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: Didn't Ian pull you up like like I think the 126 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 1: second round or something, and he was like, you don't 127 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 1: have your youth, just just found it. And I was like, 128 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: oh my god, yeah. 129 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 3: And I love. 130 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 2: That's the other thing about Ian. 131 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: Anyone listening, I've done an interview with Ian and he's just, yeah, incredible, 132 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: but his I played Maggie from Cat on a Hot 133 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: Tin Roof and he worked with e on that just 134 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: in class scene work, and he was like, how sad 135 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: you're never going to meet your twenties and it and I. 136 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 3: Was like, he doesn't hold back. 137 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: You get that moment, yeah, and then you find exactly 138 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: what Maggie needed, what you needed. 139 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's terrifying. 140 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 4: And I think the first time we did it, I 141 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 4: didn't have to do much because I was seventeen. Yeah, 142 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 4: Catherine seventeen. Yeah, so I was like, oh, well that 143 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 4: comes for free. And then yeah, that's what Ian said. 144 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 4: He pulled me aside at MTC and he was like, 145 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 4: and I was in the eighteen it was a year later, 146 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 4: he was like, so the youth doesn't come for free anymore. 147 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 4: And I was like, what a year and he was like, 148 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 4: you've aged like, you've wised up, You've aged up, and 149 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 4: so we had to find it another way, which ended 150 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 4: up being so much more interesting because you find another 151 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 4: in to her innocence and her youth, which I think 152 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 4: is a way more interesting way of doing it anyway. 153 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 3: But yeah, it was cold shock. I love it. 154 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: I love I just love the brutal honesty that ends 155 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: up being the best gift you could get. So but 156 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: before all that, there's a few because I'm like, oh, 157 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: you've done so much great theater stuff but also so 158 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: much amazing TV and film. But you had this experience. 159 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: I think you were fourteen. 160 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 2: You saw the hanging, so you were in the audience. 161 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was fifteen, Yeah, fifteen, and you related so 162 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: heavily to what was going on. 163 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 2: So the first kind of like punch in the guts kind. 164 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 4: Of yeah, yeah, I had I don't really spoken about 165 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 4: this before, but I had a really shocking eating disorder 166 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 4: and really bad anorexia and kind of didn't give a 167 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 4: fuck about anything, you know, except being skinny. And then 168 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 4: saw this play with my godmother, and I was like 169 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 4: and then yeah, and then just sat down and there's 170 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 4: a moment in it where Ash Cummings, who played the lead, 171 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 4: talks about you know, eating disorders in high school and 172 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 4: how they're so glamorized, and I just it was the 173 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 4: first time I'd had that feeling where I was like, 174 00:08:58,840 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 4: I felt like I had. 175 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 3: The win knocked out of me. 176 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 4: I burst into tears and I didn't stop crying till 177 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 4: the end of the show. And I went up to 178 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 4: the director Sarah after, and I was like so much, 179 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 4: I was amazing, Like I was just so moomed. She 180 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 4: was probably like, the fuck is this this crying tiny human? Yeah, 181 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 4: And then from then on I was kind of like, 182 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 4: WHOA like that I got better for starters, So that 183 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 4: has the capacity to change me and make me a 184 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 4: better person and a healthier person and change my life. 185 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 4: I want to do that for people. And then like 186 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 4: a year year and a half later, I was working. 187 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 3: With Sarah. 188 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:38,959 Speaker 2: And then on opening night did. 189 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 4: Opening Night, I told her, Yeah, I hadn't told her 190 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 4: the whole time because I was a little bit you know, 191 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 4: embarrassed or whatever. But I was living with her when 192 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 4: I was doing it and I still hadn't told her, 193 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 4: and then yeah, opening I wrote her a letter and 194 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 4: I was like, I've never told you this, but this 195 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 4: is what your play did for me, and you changed 196 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 4: my life and you made me want to do this 197 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 4: and now I'm here and it's like this weird full 198 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 4: circle thing. 199 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 2: How amazing is art? 200 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: Though, Like one of my teachers during COVID, I trained 201 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: at sixteenth Street, which is Ian, but they got in 202 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: some people from America and so Cody Fern came in 203 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: and an Aussie and he was like, that's the one 204 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: thing you can change people's heart. It's with like and 205 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 1: that feels like you've got that experience, like. 206 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 3: He absolutely absolutely nothing. That's the thing. 207 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 4: We turned to art when science fails us, when the 208 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 4: world failed, fails us, when medicine fails us, when people 209 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 4: fail us. That's the first place we got. We go 210 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 4: to our favorite song or you know, like our favorite movie. 211 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 2: It's The Cure one hundred percent. 212 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:43,319 Speaker 1: I there's so many why like little kind of like journeys. 213 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: We can go on here, but I want to ask 214 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: about Janet King because was that your first that show? 215 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: Was that your first kind of like big get not 216 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: big get. 217 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 3: But do you know what I mean? It was my 218 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 3: first audition. 219 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and did you step up the first auditions? 220 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I had. 221 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 4: I wasn't even signed with the agent I was with 222 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 4: at the time yet, and he was like, you know, 223 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 4: just do this one as a practice, like we'll see 224 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 4: how you go, and if you hate it, then that's fine. 225 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 3: We can leave it here and call it a day. 226 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 4: And I was like great, and then I yeah, I 227 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 4: did the audition and I went in there are so nervous. 228 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 3: I didn't know what to wear. I didn't know what 229 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 3: to do. 230 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 4: Everyone around me was like nighter graduates, Oh, that's intimidating. Yeah, 231 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 4: and I was like this like scrawny, little sixteen year 232 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 4: old had never done this before. And then went in 233 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 4: there forgot all my lines but stayed in character because 234 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 4: I didn't know what else to do. 235 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 3: So I was just like, oh line and then yeah, 236 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 3: And then. 237 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 4: Was like, well, fuck that, that's the last time I 238 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 4: have a set foot in the casting room, like see 239 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 4: you acting, And then got a call back and I 240 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 4: was like, what what do you mean? 241 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 3: Doesn't make any sense? 242 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 4: And then in the callback forgot my lines again in 243 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 4: front of the director and the director Pete Andre Katies 244 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 4: was then in there and he said, so do you smoke? 245 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 4: And I was like, fuck, I've been caught because I did. 246 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 4: But I didn't know if he wanted me to say 247 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,319 Speaker 4: yes or to say no. And I was like, I 248 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 4: can if you want me to, and he was like 249 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 4: that's enough, and I was like fuck that. And then 250 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,679 Speaker 4: I got it and I was as confused as anyone, 251 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 4: and I had no idea what I was doing on 252 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 4: that job, Like I looked down the barrel of the 253 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 4: camera in every take. You can probably see it in 254 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,959 Speaker 4: the final edit, but everyone in that job was just 255 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 4: like so welcoming and made me feel so at home, 256 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 4: and it was so exciting because it felt like, you know, 257 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 4: finally you find a group of people that speak your 258 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 4: language and like, you know, Andrea Dimitriati's is still one 259 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 4: of my closest friends, and you make family. 260 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 2: And you play your character's name was Pearl, right. 261 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: It felt like a pretty hit from what I saw, 262 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: like a pretty heavy kind of yeah, yeah, not. 263 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 2: For your character. 264 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: I was like, man, that's and if that's your first, 265 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: like your career of that character. 266 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was pretty hectic, like she she is homeless 267 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 4: And then has to live with this guy who's sexually 268 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 4: assaulting her. And I had also just reased, like just 269 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 4: at the time, had a really intense experience with stuff 270 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 4: like that, so I was like fucking hell, like and 271 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 4: I didn't know how to separate it yet, and so yeah, 272 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 4: it was a lot. It was a steep learning curve, 273 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 4: but yeah, again, the people made it so worth it 274 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 4: and just help me to understand how to do that shit. 275 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 4: And I still don't know. I'm still terrible at that 276 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 4: part of it. 277 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: But you know, well, I've heard you speak before, and 278 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: I think this is an Ean thing, but I've heard 279 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: you say you try not to let any roles cost 280 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: you too much emotionally, like you're like play intention go hard, yeah, 281 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 1: as opposed to like method and oh. 282 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I'm not a method at all. 283 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 4: But I also think sometimes they just come home with 284 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 4: you and you can't help her, Like there was some 285 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 4: versions of you from the Bridge where I didn't feel 286 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 4: Catherine come home with me, And then some nights, particularly 287 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 4: in that first one and in Melbourne, where I was. 288 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 3: Just like, fuck, get off me, Like I would have a. 289 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 4: Shower and be like go away, you're done now, I 290 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:03,719 Speaker 4: see you tomorrow, Like. 291 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 2: Fuck off, I heard you say about Catherine. 292 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: Your body doesn't like it still feels like anxiety attack. Yeah, 293 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: you cycle like Zoey psychologically knows I'm acting right. 294 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,959 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's Miller man. It just gets under your skin. 295 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 4: Like I went it the first time we did it. Afterwards, 296 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 4: all my friends are on schoolies and I was like, 297 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 4: I'm going to. 298 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 3: Go to New York. 299 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 4: Went to New York and I went to the address 300 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 4: in the play and I was like. 301 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 3: Go home, go home, now you're done. And then I 302 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 3: had to do it again. I was like, all right, 303 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 3: come back. 304 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 2: So so cathartic though, yeah it was. 305 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 4: I just bore my eyes out because you know, it's 306 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 4: it's a true story of you from the bridge. It's 307 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 4: a true story piece together from stories to that time. 308 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 4: So I was like, it really sticks to you. And 309 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 4: it was same with Wentworth as well. The some characters 310 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 4: you just can't scrub off. 311 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 2: I cannot wait to talk to you about it. 312 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 3: I have been. 313 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 2: I think it's a mate like oh and the. 314 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 3: Love he's so cute. 315 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, well then let's before we talk about 316 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: went with because I I from what I've heard when 317 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: you came out as non binary was, and then after 318 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: that happened, then Wentworth kind of came so yeah, and 319 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: you've described like coming out his guys one thing and 320 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: then coming out his non binary is a whole another. 321 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. 322 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, share a bit about that. 323 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, it was on I'd been in Europe from 324 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 4: my so I did Doll's House Part two, a MELCN 325 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 4: theater company with Sarah and Lata, and all my friends 326 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 4: were on gap year and I was like, Okay, well, 327 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 4: I'm just gonna go have gat month. So I like 328 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 4: got the money that I owned on that and I 329 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 4: flew to Europe and I was with my best mate 330 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 4: Sophie most of the time. I remember this one day 331 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 4: I was like, bought a new shirt and I was 332 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 4: wearing sports bra under the shirt, and so he was like. 333 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 3: Why are you wearing all br and I was like, 334 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 3: I don't know why, you shut up? 335 00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, and then I just it was the first time 336 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 4: I've been like, oh, why that's weird. 337 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 3: Maybe that's not weird, I don't know. 338 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 4: And then I had to fly back from Europe to 339 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 4: the Gold Coast to shoot The End, which is a 340 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 4: new Foxtale series that just came out that I'm in 341 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 4: a couple episodes of and had no money because I'd 342 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 4: spent it all in fucking Italy. 343 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 3: That's idiot. Yes, it's called BN eighteen. 344 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 4: And then I was in this hotel room for like 345 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 4: a week and a half and I didn't have that 346 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 4: many shoot days, so I had a lot of thinking 347 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 4: time and I was reading She Wants It by Joey Soloway, 348 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 4: which is who the creator of Transparent, and it just 349 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 4: described being non binary in the simplest of ways. And 350 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 4: I call it the gender void, which is like the 351 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 4: deep dark place you fall down when you start to 352 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 4: think about gender and once you start, you can't stop. 353 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 4: It's like Pandora's box. And I just fell down it 354 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 4: and I was. 355 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 3: Like, oh my god, Like what's happened? Oh God? 356 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 4: And like the guy who was I was playing, who's 357 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 4: playing my boyfriend or my kind of this guy kissing 358 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 4: the show was hands and seeing him be so authentically 359 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 4: himself on set and everyone just like see him. 360 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 3: As a guy. 361 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 4: I was like, this is available to me. I didn't 362 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 4: even know this was available to me. And then I 363 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 4: came home to Sydney and I saw my friends who 364 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 4: were all back from Europe, and I just said to 365 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 4: them like this, this is weird. And we didn't have 366 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 4: any non binary friends. You know, these are my school friends. 367 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 4: And I was like, can you just try use dy 368 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 4: them for me? And I might hate it and I'll 369 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 4: just tell you to shut up. And we never talked 370 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 4: about it, but just try. And I was like five 371 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 4: people and they started doing it, and I was like, fuck, 372 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 4: that feels really good, Like it feels like hearing your 373 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 4: own name. Yeah. And then from then on it kind 374 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 4: of just grew and grew and grew, and you start 375 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 4: to sit in yourself a different way, and it's still 376 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 4: a journey, like I still have no idea where this 377 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 4: will end, if it will ever end. 378 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 3: I still get confused on the daily. 379 00:17:59,320 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 2: But that makes it me. 380 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: That makes me feel better hearing you say that, because 381 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: I was even so I was like, I don't want 382 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: to say the wrong thing, but I also want to 383 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: show so much respect. 384 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 2: And I'm going to learn as much. 385 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 4: Yeah. 386 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: But I was talking to a friend of mine that's 387 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:19,439 Speaker 1: an actor and he is about sixty and he was like, 388 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: oh no, Well, when I was acting in my twenties, 389 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: I wasn't allowed to come out as gay. 390 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, because I wouldn't get the roles. 391 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I was like out, like it's just messed 392 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: up that that's even a thing. 393 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it still is, you know, like it still is. 394 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 4: I don't get seen for that many straight roles still, 395 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 4: which I'm you know, it's fine. I don't really give 396 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 4: a shit, I'll play anything. But I did notice a shift, 397 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 4: and you know, I was warned. Everyone was like, you know, 398 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 4: it'll change what you get seen for. And I was like, well, 399 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 4: I don't understand what the alternative is because I'm not 400 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 4: going to hide. 401 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:53,959 Speaker 2: And he'sn't acting about being connected to your truth anyway. 402 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 3: Absolutely, absolutely, and I still have faith that. 403 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 4: You know, I mean, nine perfect strangers. I kind of 404 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 4: played sis straight lady, so you know, like it's you 405 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 4: kind of you still eventually it'll balance out again. I 406 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 4: think initially everyone just goes, oh, great, like a transperson. 407 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 3: Here's all the trans things. Ever, Yeah, and you're like. 408 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 4: I can't bear the whole way to the whole trans community. 409 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:15,199 Speaker 3: Bro, it's just me. 410 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:20,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh wow, So with went so you so when 411 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: you came out there's been trans when you know, when 412 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: you came out as being non binary, that's when Wentworth 413 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: came like it was about. 414 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 4: It was end of twenty eighteen that I came out 415 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 4: as non binary, just to people in my life, and 416 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 4: then told my parents a bit later, and then I 417 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 4: told you know, the internet. And then it was probably 418 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 4: halfway through twenty nineteen that I heard about this role. 419 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 4: And I didn't originally I wasn't there, weren't going to 420 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 4: see me for it. They were going to see me 421 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 4: for another role. But like I had been hell bent 422 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 4: on Wentworth since I started acting like I can see why, 423 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 4: Oh my. 424 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:56,959 Speaker 3: God, like I went. 425 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 4: When I had my first meeting with Shanahan's, I was like, 426 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 4: I want to be on Wentworth. I don't want to 427 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 4: be on Home and Away. I want to be on Wentworth. 428 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 4: And they were like, okay, we'll try and make that happen. 429 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 4: I was like, nope, I'm going to. 430 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 3: Be on Wentworth. And then I heard about this role 431 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 3: and it. 432 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 4: Was you know, trans and he experienced gender and the 433 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 4: same way I did. And I was like, well, I 434 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 4: simply have to do it, like I simply have to. 435 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 4: And then I found out Kate was playing the partner. Kate, 436 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:20,919 Speaker 4: you know, has been a long time one of my 437 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 4: favorite actors and humans, and Kate kind of helped me 438 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 4: come out as well. 439 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 3: So I had a very special place in my heart. 440 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,680 Speaker 4: And I was like, well, it's simply there's no choice 441 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:33,479 Speaker 4: in this, like I will play this role. Yeah, and 442 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 4: I just hustled my way in and they weren't going 443 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 4: to see me because I was ten years too young 444 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 4: for it and everyone they were seeing was older and 445 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 4: not trans to be honest. Yeah, and I just like, 446 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 4: I was so nervous. I've never been that nervous before. 447 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought. 448 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 4: I was like, I've had to go over with my 449 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 4: friend Caroline Braziy's house the night before and I was like, Yash, 450 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 4: I don't know what to do. I feel like I 451 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 4: can't drop in, I can't access it. And she was like, 452 00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 4: you need a stiff drink babes and I had a 453 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 4: vodka and I was like let's go. 454 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah yeah. 455 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 4: So then it all kind of I did the audition 456 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 4: and it went well, and then I did the callback 457 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 4: and Kate and I had really read chemistry and yeah, 458 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 4: then they went quiet for so long and I was like, 459 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 4: bless caath ebbs man. 460 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 3: I was hell. 461 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 4: I was like, maybe the call now, maybe I was 462 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 4: not present because I just checked my phone for like 463 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,239 Speaker 4: two months, I was checking my phone and then I 464 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 4: was like, fuck this and I wrote an email. 465 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 3: Did you Yeah, I emailed the producers. 466 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 4: I was like hey, Like, I was basically just saying 467 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 4: thank you for putting this role out into the world, 468 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 4: but also I hope you know that this means a 469 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 4: great deal to me and would mean a great deal 470 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 4: to the community to have somebody who identifies that way 471 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 4: tell this story. 472 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 3: And then the next day I got the offer. 473 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's something like the second you said yes 474 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: doing this podcast, I was like, yes, I get to 475 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: be Worth. And it was such a joy to watch 476 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 1: Red but also lou and like the camaraderie. 477 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 3: Like it was just it. 478 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: Was like such an anchoring point because like Wentworth is 479 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 1: very crazy, like there's so much chaos going. 480 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,239 Speaker 2: On, but it was just like, I don't know, I 481 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 2: just loved the love. 482 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a big love. 483 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: I love the way that you talk about the importance 484 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: of casting trans people in trans roles, and you've been 485 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: super vocal about that. Yeah, and that's obviously an example 486 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 1: of your character reb in Wentworth. But what I loved 487 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: and I actually saw it on conversations with Cat, You're 488 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: like it's not just the actor and it's like trans 489 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: people in costume. 490 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 2: It's like it has to go the whole people of 491 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,120 Speaker 2: color and everything. 492 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: And when I saw that, I was like, oh my, 493 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: like it's so easy to think, almost like tunnel vision. Yeah, 494 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 1: totally need more representation. I remember when I was in 495 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,199 Speaker 1: an acting class, someone's like, well, you're thirty five, like 496 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: you got three more years and you just play a 497 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: mom And I was like, dagger by. 498 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 4: Hard No, not true, right, I mean in Australia, it's 499 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 4: a pretty backwards place in terms of age and race 500 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 4: and all of it. But yeah, unfortunately that is Australia. Yeah, 501 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 4: I just think I think it's such. I think it's bullshit. 502 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 4: I think I think, of course, representation matters and face value. 503 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 4: It is so important to see trans people, people of color, 504 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 4: particularly trans people of color, forefronting these shows. 505 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 3: But I resent the. 506 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 4: Fact that when I got on set, I had to 507 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 4: explain what a binder was. Yeah, I had to explain 508 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 4: why I don't think reb needed to be packing, Like, 509 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 4: I had to explain what those words meant because if 510 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 4: you had one trans person in any department, they'd be 511 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,880 Speaker 4: able to tell you, you know, And I was lucky 512 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 4: enough to have my hair makeup artist, Banan, this fucking 513 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 4: incredible queer woman who just it just meant we had 514 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 4: a shorthand because she instantly understood what I was talking about, 515 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 4: what I meant, and like every time she did my 516 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 4: hair in the morning, she'd just go there it is, 517 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 4: you know, and just to be gendered correctly, you know 518 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 4: your character, to be gendered correctly. 519 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 3: It's such an affirming thing to have every morning. 520 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 4: You know. 521 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: I've heard you say in interviews that you personally have 522 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: learned so much from Red and from playing Red, and 523 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: I love that side. 524 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 2: Of as well. What's the thing you've learned from Red? 525 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 3: I mean, it was not. 526 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,159 Speaker 4: It wasn't so like kind of easy and sunshine and nice. 527 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 3: It was it was really hard for a while. 528 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 4: When I first started, I would wake up every morning 529 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 4: and the first thing I thought was my boy, and 530 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 4: my boy? 531 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 3: Do I feel like a boy today? Am I boy? 532 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 4: And it's still something I really struggle with, Like I 533 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 4: don't know, I don't know if I'm a boy. 534 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 3: I don't know. I know right now they then feels good, 535 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 3: and I know I feel like guy. I don't think 536 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 3: I feel like a man. I don't know. It's something 537 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 3: I'm still working out. 538 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 4: But playing REB was so fucking confusing for that reason, 539 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:09,959 Speaker 4: because I was being referred to as a guy all 540 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 4: day and it felt really good and it still feels good. 541 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 3: Yeah. 542 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 4: And then I was on the beach one day because 543 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 4: we lived on Port Melbourne on the beach and me 544 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 4: and rightaway Hick who's Ruby Mitchell and Wentworth. I was 545 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 4: sitting there and I just busted tears and I was like, 546 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 4: I'm so lost, Like I'm so lost, I feel so 547 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 4: lost in REB. I feel like I'm losing touch with myself. 548 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 4: And she just kind of grabbed my face and calmed 549 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 4: me down, and she was like, whenever I come home 550 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 4: from work, I asked myself, who does this belong to? 551 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 4: Who does this feeling belong to? Is this Rubies or 552 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 4: Rity's Okay, that's Rubies. I'm gonna give it back to her. 553 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 4: And that little tiny thing saved my fucking ass. I 554 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 4: can say every day when I came home from work 555 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 4: and when I woke up and I felt so gender 556 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 4: confused and so dark, I just would still. You know, 557 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,880 Speaker 4: it's a fucking heavy material, you know, like it gets 558 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 4: right and the rest. Yeah, and I would just say, 559 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 4: does this belong to is this ReBs or is this mine? 560 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 4: I think it's ReBs. I'm going to give it back 561 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 4: to him and I'll pick it up tomorrow. Yeah, and 562 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 4: it doesn't always work, you know, I've still got gender 563 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 4: issues not even doing it. 564 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: But also psychologically protects Zoey. Absolutely, you can function the 565 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 1: human being and then be able to kind of like 566 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 1: give back to totally. 567 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 4: And I think it's a bit extra hard when you're living, 568 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 4: you know, alone in a service department away from your people, 569 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 4: and I have a lot of people in Melbourne, but 570 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 4: no one that I lived with, and so you kind 571 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 4: of just it's very easy to accidentally stay in it. Yeah, 572 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 4: you know, because you go having you got to learn 573 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 4: your lines, so you've got to stay in a little 574 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 4: bit more. And then it's you know, nine pm and 575 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 4: you've got to get up at four am to. 576 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 3: Go back to work. 577 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 4: So it's pretty easy to slip into it and stay 578 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 4: in it. But I'm very glad that I stopped doing that. 579 00:26:58,720 --> 00:26:59,679 Speaker 4: He's not sustainable. 580 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 1: Oh this is so so fascinating. So I gotta talk 581 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 1: right before we hit record on this. Byron Bay, You've 582 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 1: been in recently doing nine Perfect Strangers, and I was 583 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: trying to find anything I could on Strange. All I 584 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: could see was Melissa McCarthy do an interview saying I 585 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: love working with such a wonderful group of weirdos. 586 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 4: Yeah. 587 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 3: That was the time. That was the breed. 588 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,439 Speaker 4: Everyone was so fucking weird, like in the best way, 589 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,200 Speaker 4: Like thank god. It was just like the strangest, most 590 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 4: miraculous group of people. Yeah, and everyone just got each other. 591 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 4: Like the second we started, we were just like, Oh, 592 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 4: you're all fucking weird. 593 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 3: This is gonna work, you know. 594 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 4: Like I felt usually I feel like kind of funny 595 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 4: in a room, and that reminds like I'm not going 596 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 4: to dare like a joke because I will be stood up. 597 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 4: Like they are just the funniest people. 598 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 3: You know. 599 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 4: You've got like Melissa, You've got Regina Hall or Grace 600 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 4: stand Patten, Like fuck off, you know. 601 00:27:58,320 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 2: What are you so pumped? 602 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: I'd be like, you're rubbing shoulders with like we're talking 603 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: Hollywood greats. 604 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was pretty surreal. My first day, I was like, 605 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,199 Speaker 3: oh my god, and like, you know, Nicole came up 606 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 3: to me. 607 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 4: I was like, and say, with Melissa, and Melissa is 608 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 4: just She's fucking incredible fast her acting. I just I 609 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 4: don't know how she does it. Like there was one 610 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 4: day on set where I was like, but how are 611 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 4: you doing that? Like how how are you doing that? 612 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 4: All of them, you know, Regina Hall, Bobby kn't of Valley, 613 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,120 Speaker 4: Michael Shannon, like funk Off, They're just the great Tiffany Boone, 614 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 4: Luke Evans is. 615 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. 616 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 4: I don't have a great deal to do in that show, 617 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 4: but just to sit back and watch everyone all. Like 618 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 4: I remember I did an audition about a quarter the 619 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 4: way through the shoot and I was like, oh God, 620 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 4: I don't know how this is going to be. And 621 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 4: I was so much better, Like my acting was so 622 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 4: much better. And I was like, why am I better? 623 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 4: And I was like, oh, because pretty much been in 624 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 4: an audit again for you know what I mean, Like 625 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 4: with the finest actors in Hollywood, That's why I am better, 626 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 4: because they just rub off on you. 627 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:08,959 Speaker 2: And you were shooting at so much. 628 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: Weren't you that incredible hug retreat in It's so beautiful. 629 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: I did a reki of it recently because I teach 630 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: Joger I'm looking for a spot to a retreat and 631 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: They're like, we built this for Nicole Kidman's character especially. 632 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I feel like I'm getting a 633 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: real life They've changed the retreat like because they've built 634 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: sets around it. 635 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. 636 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: So I'm sure you get Actually, I know you get 637 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: asked this because I've listened to every single podcast you 638 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: ever done. 639 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 3: I'm very virgo with that. 640 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: But would you say, like, because I feel like theater's 641 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: in your bones, like theater is probably how you've especially 642 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: doing school with Ian pretty much, would you say, like, 643 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: do you prefer the medium like the pace of TV 644 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,719 Speaker 1: or you like love to get into that because not 645 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: right there are actors that can do both, which clearly 646 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: you can, but that's it's also like. 647 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 2: A rare talent, you know. 648 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 4: I mean all my favorite actors are theater actors, especially 649 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 4: in Australia, like Kate Box, Helen Thompson, Blazy Best, Like, 650 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 4: all the people that I get really excited to watch 651 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 4: in anything are theater actors. I think you fall in 652 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 4: love with a theater actor harder than you can fall 653 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 4: in love with a screen actor. 654 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 3: Like I've never the. 655 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 4: Response I will have to an amazing performance in theater 656 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 4: like that. I when I see somebody do a great 657 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 4: piece of theater. I've never had that with a movie, 658 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 4: got it. You know, like it's always more visceral when 659 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 4: it's theater because you feel like somebody's just done it 660 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 4: for you and they fucking have you know what I mean, 661 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 4: Like it's it's so much more personal. 662 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 3: So I don't I don't know how to answer that question. 663 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 4: I feel like I approach everything like it's theater yea, 664 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 4: even even screen. I just think if you have I 665 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 4: don't have much theater background. I've done like a couple 666 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 4: of plays, but also with incredible people. Yeah, totally like yeah, 667 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 4: and Ian Sara and like changed my life and changed. 668 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 2: The way I'm so young, Like you've been given these gifts. 669 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 3: So yeah, which sets up really well. 670 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: And even Ian from what I learned, like his work 671 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: ethic as well, because I was like, oh, how can 672 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: I translate. 673 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 2: This to like an audio screen audition? Is like no, 674 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 2: it's six different ways and be able to do. 675 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,719 Speaker 1: It on this yeah, like you know, like so yeah, 676 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: they don't even need to think, they just are. 677 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. 678 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: There's something you shaid about Kate Box and how Kate 679 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: inspired you to like. 680 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 2: Take that plunge to come out as non binary. 681 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 3: IM quite sure come out as gay. Was it was gay? 682 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: And she was was it that it was be that 683 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: person for someone out? 684 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what that was what she said. Yeah, I called. 685 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 3: I called. 686 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 4: Kate was twenty seventeen. I'd seen them in a show. 687 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 4: I'd seen them in Cloud nine and just so fucking good, 688 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 4: and it like just that show as well. 689 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 3: It was another one where I was like, oh my god. 690 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 4: Yeah. And then my friend Anita was like, oh, Kate's gay, 691 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 4: and I was like what I have. I just didn't 692 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 4: know I had somebody to look up to, Like I 693 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 4: thought I was inventing the wheel here and I fucking wasn't. 694 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 4: And I got put in contact with Kate through a 695 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 4: mutual friend and we had a phone call and Kate said, yeah, 696 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 4: they just said, you know, you have me to call 697 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 4: because I did it, So go and be that person 698 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 4: for someone else. And then that night I posted a 699 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 4: photo of me kissing my best friend on Instagram. 700 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 3: I was like, fuck it, yeah, my friend Kate's thank you. 701 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 3: Kate's a there's a photo of us kissing, and I 702 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 3: was like, yeah, you go. Well. 703 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 4: I was just so inspired and I had been you know, 704 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 4: I'd only been hiding it to the industry, and you know, 705 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 4: hiding it. I was like, I hadn't fucking done anything 706 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 4: but for you know, under a year. But that was 707 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 4: enough for me to go, like, I can't, I can't 708 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 4: do this anymore. I can't do this anymore. I'm sick 709 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 4: of not being able to post photos of the person 710 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 4: I'm seeing. 711 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 3: You know, fuck that. 712 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: Out of everybody I've interviewed and I'm just about to 713 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: record my hundredth episode, You're so real and this like 714 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: unapologetic realness that like please don't ever change that is 715 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 1: so inspired. 716 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 2: Like hearing these stories and everything you're showing, it. 717 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: Inspires me just to be have no filter in just 718 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: life in general, like aside from gender, like in life, 719 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 1: imagine just like living, not like like I think we 720 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: get so scared of judgment and like especially you know, 721 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: being a worrying that that might affect your career, you 722 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: know what I mean totally just having that gone, like 723 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: that weight gone, you rock, Like you can go to 724 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: any audition and just be like, hey, yeah, I'm Zoe. 725 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 2: This is who I am. Take it or leave it. Yeah, 726 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 2: that's got to be pretty friends. 727 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 4: And I think I think being gay and being trans 728 00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 4: kind of backs in a corner with that stuff because 729 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 4: you've you've got no choice, Like you literally just have 730 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 4: to go, because you live your life with people, knowing 731 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 4: people don't agree with your existence, and knowing some people 732 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 4: would rather you were dead, and so you kind of 733 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 4: just have to go, like fuck you, then this is 734 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 4: who I am. If you don't like it, find my 735 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 4: may get in line. 736 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 3: You know what I mean. 737 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, but also there's a lot of people who do 738 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 4: like it and who feel liberated by it and seen 739 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 4: by it. So fuck you, take me or leave me, 740 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 4: like you know exactly. 741 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: But also, like I I was saying this to my 742 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 1: boyfriend before, how I was quite nervous because I would 743 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: be classified and please correct me if I'm wrong, But 744 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 1: like I'm straight, so I would be a cis heterosexual. 745 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:40,800 Speaker 3: Right, That's how I describe myself. 746 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: But like everything you're sharing inspires me to be a 747 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:44,720 Speaker 1: better human. 748 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 2: So like I want you to know. 749 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: That everybody, really, because I think this is where art 750 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: comes into it as well, where I think like if 751 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: your true live from the heart, you're real, you work 752 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: bloody hard as well, like good, good shit will happen 753 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,359 Speaker 1: to you. Yeah, and it's so rare that you get 754 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 1: people just like aren'tapologetically being themselves, And I just want 755 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: to thank you for that because it is so so 756 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,239 Speaker 1: inspiring for people that could be listening now that are like, oh, 757 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,839 Speaker 1: like I I want to do this thing. I want 758 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,319 Speaker 1: to come out, but it's so freaking scary because I've 759 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 1: heard you had a great experience coming out to friends 760 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,800 Speaker 1: and family and are like super supportive. 761 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:25,479 Speaker 2: H And not everybody has that experience, and so what. 762 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: Would your like two questions first one is like, what's 763 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,760 Speaker 1: your advice people that is feeling a bit stuck? 764 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 2: And the second thing is how can we normalize and 765 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 2: just make it? 766 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 1: Like why is it even a thing? Why can't we 767 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: just ask people their pronoun when we meet them? 768 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:41,359 Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? 769 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a massive question. It's it's I don't know. 770 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 4: It's so hard. It's something I get a lot of 771 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 4: messages on Instagram about, like, you know, people being like 772 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 4: my my family don't accept me, and I don't know 773 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:57,840 Speaker 4: what to do and I feel trapped and I feel 774 00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 4: stuck and I don't know what to say. I don't 775 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,720 Speaker 4: know were to say because it's just fucked. 776 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 3: And awful and I don't know. It reminds me of this. 777 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 3: Have you seen It's a sin? 778 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 2: No? 779 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 3: Oh, you've got to wa understand. 780 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 4: There's this speech at the end spoiler alert sorry. The 781 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,240 Speaker 4: lead woman gives to this boy who's died of AIDS 782 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 4: his mum and she basically just talks about all the 783 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 4: men in you know, said in their seventies, eighties, nineties 784 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 4: in the AIDS crisis, and all the men in the. 785 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 3: Hospitals that are dying alone. 786 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,319 Speaker 4: And she basically just says, like, you have to understand 787 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 4: that a little part of them thinks they deserve it, 788 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 4: and they think they deserve it because of people like you, 789 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 4: because you made them think they deserve it by not 790 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 4: loving them because of it. 791 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 3: And I know it sounds so fucking. 792 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 4: Harsh, especially out of context, but that's how people who 793 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,799 Speaker 4: don't respect this stuff should be spoken to. Yeah, and 794 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 4: that's how parents have. You know, if you're a parent 795 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 4: and you wouldn't love your kid if they were trans, 796 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 4: don't fucking have kids so strongly about that, like, you 797 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 4: do not deserve to be a parent, You do not 798 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 4: deserve to bring a small person into this world. 799 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,319 Speaker 1: I've never said this for I broke up with a 800 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: guy once because I had a feeling that it was 801 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 1: quite homophobic, and I was like, what if we had 802 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,879 Speaker 1: a kid one day and they're like, hey mom, Dad, 803 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:19,319 Speaker 1: I'm gay. 804 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 2: He was like, well, I wouldn't be happy about it. 805 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 2: I see ya. I broke up on the spot. 806 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 4: Yeah. 807 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 2: I was like I would be wrapped. I would just 808 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,279 Speaker 2: be like you be you and never. 809 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,280 Speaker 3: There's a gift such gay kids are fucking better. 810 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 2: I've got to say something that I reckon. You're gonna laugh. 811 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,880 Speaker 1: First day of acting school, there's a teacher at sixteenth 812 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 1: Street called Julia Gray. Yeah, and first day sat down 813 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,400 Speaker 1: in circle and she's like, name pronoun yeah, like before 814 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: any classes started, Like how a mate? 815 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 2: Like I know that that needs to be the norm. 816 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's such a refreshing thing when it happens. 817 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 4: Ian does that too? You on first day rehearsals and Sarah. 818 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 4: But I think this really cool thing happened in Byron. 819 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 4: There was this queer meetup thing that me and Kath 820 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 4: went to and everyone was asking each other's pronouns and 821 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 4: this one person I was like, hey, man, what are 822 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 4: your pronouns? And they were like, I actually haven't checked 823 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 4: in with myself yet, can I get back to you. 824 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 4: I was like, that is so cool, like to be 825 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:25,759 Speaker 4: that in touch with yourself to say, like, I haven't 826 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 4: asked myself what my pronouns are today. 827 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:28,239 Speaker 2: Yeah. 828 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 4: I just thought it was incredible because they're clearly in 829 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 4: a place where they haven't decided, or maybe they won't decide, 830 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 4: and maybe a couple of pronouns are feeling good at 831 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 4: the moment, Like I wish I had that confidence. I'm 832 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:44,840 Speaker 4: like they then you know, yeah, yeah, So. 833 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,880 Speaker 1: Like, yeah, I just think I think you're incredible, and 834 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:52,440 Speaker 1: I honestly believe that you are gonna really put a 835 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: dent on this world in the best possible way. And 836 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:57,360 Speaker 1: I know I've said this to you in the past 837 00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 1: via instagrams. 838 00:38:58,280 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 2: I want you to write a book. You've got a 839 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,800 Speaker 2: book in you, my friend. I know that makes it 840 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 2: really embarrassed. 841 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:10,800 Speaker 1: So embarrassed, yeah, big time, And please just keep. 842 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 2: Doing what you're doing because I think you are freaking incredible. 843 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 3: Thank you, mate, thanks for having me. Thank you. 844 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 1: That's a wrap on another episode of Fearlessly Failing. As always, 845 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 1: thank you to our guests, and let's continue the conversation 846 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:34,919 Speaker 1: on Instagram. I'm at Yamo Lollaberry This potty my word 847 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 1: for podcast is available on all streaming platforms. I'd love 848 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 1: it if you could subscribe, rate and comment, and of 849 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:44,399 Speaker 1: course spread the love.