1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: We know that the Resources A Northern Australia Minister Madeline 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: King has opened consultations, she said yesterday, on ways to 3 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: improve the operations of the Australian Domestic Gas Security Mechanism 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: to strengthen Australia's domestic energy supply and has released a 5 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: discussion paper on the reform options. Now it does, indeed, well, 6 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: it does indeed come after the A Triple C released 7 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: a report yesterday really saying that Australia well is facing 8 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: alarming gas shortfalls in twenty twenty three, That is according 9 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: to the A Triple C, as they urge producers to 10 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 1: keep supplies on shore. Now joining me on the line 11 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 1: to talk further about the situation is the APIA Acting 12 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: Chief Executive Damien Dowaire. Good morning to you, Damien morning. 13 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: How are you very well? 14 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:49,639 Speaker 2: Now? 15 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: Damien, we know that this report from the A Triple C. 16 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: It came out yesterday and there is concern that for 17 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three we are not going to have domes 18 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 1: gas supplies required around the East coast. From your perspective, 19 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: is the industry doing the right thing by Australians here? 20 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: Do we have enough gas in Australia to make sure 21 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: that we are able to keep those on the East 22 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: coast with power. 23 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 2: Well, yes, three question and the answer is yes, we do. 24 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 2: What the hb'll see report found is that there is 25 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 2: one hundred and sixty seven pedigules and I'll come back 26 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 2: to that in a second of uncontracted gas available for 27 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 2: supply into domestic market, and that is more significantly more 28 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 2: than what they characterize as shortfall. So there's plenty of 29 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 2: gas available for the domestic market, there's plenty of gas 30 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 2: available for the export market. And so it's about the 31 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 2: industry coming together with the government to make sure that happens. 32 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,639 Speaker 2: And that's the process that started yesterday by the Resources Minister, 33 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 2: and that's something that we'll work through with and the 34 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 2: government more broadly over the next few weeks. 35 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: Has there been you know, has there been a situation 36 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: in Australia though, where our gas industry is indeed exporting 37 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: that gas to other locations around the world rather than 38 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: keeping enough reserves for us here. 39 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 2: So we've had a circlus into the domestic market each 40 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 2: and every year, and that's come thrue from each of 41 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 2: the previous eleven HRC reports and other sports that have 42 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:31,119 Speaker 2: been done. So we've never been in a situation there's 43 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 2: been an actual thoughtfall, and that's not going to happen 44 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 2: next year either. What the report does is providing an 45 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 2: early signal to the market, to the industry about the 46 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 2: need for us to come together. And that's as I mentioned, 47 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 2: that's what we're doing with the Minister now, we'll be 48 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 2: doing over the next few weeks. 49 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: Well, I know that she has essentially put gas producers, 50 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: she says on notice that the federal government intends to 51 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: pull the gas trigger to restrict exports unless it can 52 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: be proven that the nation does not face that gas shortfall. 53 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: So it does sound as though you feel pretty confident 54 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: that the industry is going to be able to prove 55 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: that there's not a short fall. 56 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, And the first step in that process, the minister 57 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 2: outline yesterday is a couple of weeks of engagement with 58 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 2: the industry where we go through exactly those issues. And 59 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 2: so it will be up to us, but the opportunity 60 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 2: is there now for us to engage constructively with the 61 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 2: Minister and the government more broadly to go through that process. 62 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 2: And so that's exactly what we're going to do. And 63 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 2: I am confident that coming out of that will be 64 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 2: a good understanding we're at and a good joint position 65 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 2: on the way forward. So we're looking forward to those 66 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 2: conversations Dave's commenced, and we're looking forward to them continuing 67 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 2: over the next month and then beyond that. 68 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: Now, Damien, I know that a lot of Territorians are 69 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: going to be listening this morning and thinking to themselves, 70 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: does the be Toloo Basin have a part to play 71 00:03:57,520 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: in this discussion? 72 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, and again a good question, and the short answer 73 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 2: is yes, potentially. The HBC set out essentially for basic 74 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 2: responses that are possible to bring more gas to the market. 75 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 2: The key one is the one that we've spoken about, 76 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 2: is that uncontracted gas find displaying to the market. There's 77 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 2: gas in storage that can come out of come out 78 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: of storage and feed into the market in the short term. 79 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 2: And then there's new developments and so there's either new 80 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 2: developments on the East coast or there's new developments from 81 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 2: other places, and one of those other places is the 82 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 2: bea Toloo Basin. So that possibility is there. The HBC 83 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 2: have themselves set it out as one of the three 84 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 2: or four responses that might be possible. So yes, it 85 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 2: does provide an opportunity to go forward to bring gas 86 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 2: into the domestic market. 87 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: Now, when you talk about those new developments, is an 88 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: audn territory sort of further along with the be Toloo Basin, 89 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: then what some of those other new developments around the 90 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: rest of the nation are. 91 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 2: It's further along than some, but not as far along 92 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: as others. So if I can put it this way, 93 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 2: the Narrowbrye project in New South Wales, it's in quite 94 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 2: an advanced state. It's going through an environmental approval process, 95 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,919 Speaker 2: but there are others that are further behind. So the 96 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 2: BLA who probably sits somewhere in the middle if I 97 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 2: can put it that way, of the possible supply option. 98 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 2: So it's not an immediate term option, but is an 99 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: important part of future supply. And what the report, amongst 100 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 2: other things, are shown is the ongoing and enduring demand 101 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:43,919 Speaker 2: that we see for gas and so projects or potential 102 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 2: developments and where it's still at the potential development stage 103 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 2: with the bea Looo becomes quite important over time. 104 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: Now there is obviously some people wondering just how much 105 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: gas there is in the b Toloo Basin. Rob from 106 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: Winnelli has messaged through and he's one wondering how it compares, 107 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: you know, to other sources around Australia and around the world. 108 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an interesting it's an interesting state that we're 109 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 2: at right now. So the potential that's been identified, and 110 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: potential is a very important word I'll come back to 111 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 2: that is very large and world world scale large. So 112 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 2: there is potentially a very significant resource there. But I 113 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 2: say potential because there's still expiration to be done to 114 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 2: firm up and confirm that potential, if I can put 115 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 2: it that way. So there's a little bit of an 116 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 2: unknown to it at the moment and that work, as 117 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 2: is the case with expiration around the nation, around the world, 118 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 2: it is important to be able to do that expiration 119 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 2: to firm up what you think is there. But if 120 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 2: what people thinks there is there, then there is a 121 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 2: very world scale resource available in the build of well. 122 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: And obviously there is environmental concerns. There have been you know, 123 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: people who've spoken around the territory on this show as 124 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: well at different times about those environmental concerns. But there 125 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: is indeed a number of measures at the gas industry 126 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: and that those that are going through that exploration process 127 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: need to actually do before they're able to really start 128 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: getting to that point where we're exporting gas. 129 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 2: That's right. And one of the very key things that 130 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 2: we went through a couple of years ago is the 131 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: Pepper Inquiry where it went through in very significant detail 132 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 2: the prospects for the development of the industry in the 133 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 2: territory and what would need to take place so regultary 134 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 2: developments alongside that, and it made well over one hundred 135 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 2: recommendations and the Northern Territory government and the industry i know, 136 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 2: has committed to moving forward on each of every one 137 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 2: of those recommendations before the industry moves forward. So yes, 138 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 2: there's quite a significant regultory regime that sits around the 139 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 2: exploration side of the industry, and there'll be even more 140 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 2: significant and very regultary regime that would sit around any 141 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 2: developments as they move forward. And so you know, we're 142 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 2: very keen and working right now with the territory government 143 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 2: and with stakeholders to work through those issues. And so 144 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 2: that's a very key focus for the industry right now. 145 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: Damian. Where are things ash at the moment with Sabidlu 146 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: and how far away are we you know, from seeing 147 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: gas flowing. 148 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 2: So I trying to answer that second question that it's 149 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 2: going to depend a little bit on the success of 150 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 2: the expiration activities that are underway. But those expiration activities 151 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 2: are underway, so if they're successful, then there'll be a 152 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 2: commercial decision making process to go through, and then obviously, 153 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 2: as I mentioned, there'll be that environmental approval, regulatory regime, 154 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 2: all those sorts of issues to work through. So gas 155 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 2: on and flotmarro but gas can be brought into the 156 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 2: market in the next couple of years, and that's the 157 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 2: process that the industry is on right now. But getting 158 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 2: on the ground, exploring and hopefully securing that there are 159 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 2: significant resources on the ground, that's the bible first step 160 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 2: and that's what's underlay at the moment. 161 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: Well, and there is always that argument, you know, that 162 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: we should be going to renewables, and I know that 163 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: the argument from some has been that we shouldn't be 164 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: sort of developing these new areas like the b Toloo, 165 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: we should be going with renewables. But I mean, are 166 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 1: we there yet, Damien? 167 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 2: Well, I think what we've seen, particularly on the East 168 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,719 Speaker 2: coast over the last couple of weeks, has been the 169 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 2: very important role that gas canon does play that's both 170 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 2: in providing long term energy security but also complementing the 171 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 2: work of renewables. So we don't have a view that 172 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 2: renewables and the gas industry are in competition, quite the opposite, 173 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 2: that are in fact sold compliments to each other, and 174 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,319 Speaker 2: that as renewables plays a growing an even more important 175 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 2: role in energy supply across the nation, including potentially in 176 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: the territory, that gas will continue to have a very 177 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 2: important role to play in firming up variable renewable sources 178 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 2: and working alongside the industry. So we see them as 179 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 2: we see them as working together, and the importance of 180 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 2: them working together is going to grow, as on the 181 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 2: East Coast, for example, could firepower generation the tithes over time, 182 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 2: both renewables and games step into that space. 183 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 1: Well, Damien Dewire, the APR acting Chief Executive, I really 184 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 1: appreciate your time this morning. Thanks very much for having 185 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: a chat with us. 186 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 2: No problem to all, great to chat. 187 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: Thank you.