WEBVTT - How the Buy Now, Pay Later changes affect you 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:03.320 Already and this is the Daily OFF. 0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:05.200 This is the Daily OS. 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:16.159 Oh now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:18.239 the Daily OS. It is Thursday, the sixth of June. 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:19.680 I'm Billy, I'm Sam. 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:23.640 Over seven million Australians used by now Pay Later accounts 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:26.320 like after Pay or ZIP and young people are the 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:29.080 main adopters of this new form of credit. But now 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:31.520 the government is keen to apply the same rules that 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:34.360 govern our credit cards or loans to these services in 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:36.960 one of the biggest changes to the Credit Act in years. 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:40.040 The government hopes the new laws will protect vulnerable people 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:43.080 from accumulating debt by making everyone get a credit check 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:45.760 to use the apps. And on today's podcast, we're going 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:48.519 to take a look at what's being proposed, why and 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:51.840 what the companies themselves think of the move. But first Sam, 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:53.040 what is making headlines. 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:58.400 Australia's economy grew by zero point one percent over the 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:01.200 past three months. That's according to the latest figures from 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:04.840 the Australian Bureau of Statistics. This is measured using a 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:08.640 metric known as gross domestic product or GDP, which reflects 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:12.199 the value of all goods and services in Australia. Reserve 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:15.800 Bank Governor Michelle Bullock called the growth figures quote very weak, 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:19.120 and Treasurer Jim Chalmers said it reflected the immense pressure 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:22.479 placed on households due to high inflation and interest rates. 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:26.800 Shadow Treasurer Angus Taylor blamed slow GDP on the government, 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:30.280 who he claimed, quote had no economic vision for the country. 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:36.000 Head of NewsCorp Australasia, Michael Miller, has proposed a new 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:39.680 legal framework for social media companies, requiring them to apply 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:42.520 for and pay for a social license, which will essentially 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:45.600 be permission to operate in Australia. In an address to 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.120 the National Press Club, Miller outlined the proposed laws, under 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:52.000 which companies would be directly liable for all the content 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:55.160 on their platforms, have to contribute to mental health funding, 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:59.680 maintain a dedicated complaints hotline in Australia, and face criminal 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:02.080 pennses for breaking social license rules. 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:07.200 Several high profile TikTok accounts have been targeted in a 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:11.160 cyber attack, including US news network CNN and Paris Hilton. 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:14.840 A TikTok spokesperson told The Associated Press that a quote 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:18.280 very small number of accounts were impacted by the cyber attack, 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:22.400 and that Hilton's account was targeted but not compromised. It 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:25.040 comes after the US government passed a bill to force 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:28.760 TikTok's Chinese parent company Byteedance to sell it to a 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:32.160 US buyer or face being shut down over concerns. User 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:34.880 data is being shared with the Chinese government. 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:39.760 And today's good News, Bluey will feature on a limited 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:42.560 run of Australian one dollar coins made by their Royal 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:46.600 Australian Mint. Characters from the iconic children's TV show an 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:50.240 ABC and BBC co production will appear on three different 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:54.720 commemorative coins as part of the Bluey dollar Bucks series. Interestingly, 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:57.359 despite being the one dollar coin, the coins will cost 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:01.280 twenty dollars for one or fifty five dollars for all three. 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:06.040 Okay, So, on today's podcast, we're going to talk about 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:09.400 changes to the buy now, pay later sector. So think 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.560 of companies like after pay and Zip. And given the 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:15.760 status of how popular this service is for young people, 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:18.760 and given who listens to this podcast typically, I'm sure 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.840 that people listening know exactly what this is, but I 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:24.200 want you to give us a quick overview anyway. What 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:25.600 is buy now pay later? 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:29.880 So buy now, pay later is a financing option that 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:34.160 allows customers to pay for items in multiple installments rather 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:37.440 than upfront. So it basically means that you can pay 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:41.600 partly for something, but you can get that item straight away. 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:44.480 So let's say that there's a dress, for example, that 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.120 I want to wear this weekend, but it's way out 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:49.720 of my price range. So I can pay for a 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:52.080 quarter of it now, and then I can wear that 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:55.120 dress this weekend and then pay off the rest of 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:59.280 the dress in quarterly installments over the next four weeks following. 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:02.360 Yeah, and there's no interest normally. Are those payments right exactly? 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:05.720 And that's a key benefit to this that there is 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:09.160 no financial penalty for paying for it over time. It's 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:13.119 completely free of charge, unless you don't pay it back 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:15.920 in time, then there is a fee, and that can 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.200 result in a debt. But I guess when you think 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:21.200 about loans, you think of the interest that comes from that. 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:23.960 This is not like that because there's no interest there. 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:27.120 So it is really popular for that reason, especially amongst 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:27.760 young people. 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:30.040 It's interesting looking at these companies because you know they 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:32.960 make billions of dollars where that money actually comes from, 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:38.000 especially because they're giving customers interest free loans essentially. And 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:41.560 the answer to that is predominantly that they charge merchants 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:44.400 and merchants. So let's take your dress for an example. 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.440 The merchant could be the Iconic, and so they'll convince 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:50.080 the iconic to take them on as an offering to 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:53.280 their customers. They'll pay a fee on either the number 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:56.080 of transactions or maybe even a monthly installment, and the 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:59.360 Iconic should see their sales go up because they offer 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:01.960 after pay ors. Yes, and so that's the business case 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:02.720 they're putting forward. 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:04.960 Yes, So they're basically saying to their konic, you will 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:08.400 have more customers because it is more attractive for customers 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:09.200 to use after. 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:11.080 Pay exact there are, and you should make that money back. 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:15.320 So who then is the customer that's using band pl. 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:19.839 So according to Australia's Reserve Bank, about seven million Australians 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.200 have used buy Now, Pay later to purchase something. 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:24.560 It's a massive group of people, it's massive. 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:27.040 That's about one in three of the adult population in 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:31.000 Australia and about half of the employed population. So it's 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.800 a significant proportion of Australians that we're talking about here. 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:36.960 And in terms of who these Australians are, it's Australians 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:40.440 between eighteen and thirty nine, who have on average just 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:44.200 under one buy Now Pay Later account each, although to note, 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:47.279 there's some people in this age bracket have multiple accounts 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:49.760 and will explain why a little bit later, but that's 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:52.400 why that number sounds really high. And in terms of 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:54.800 those who are a bit older, those over sixty five 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.919 are the least likely demographic to have an account, So 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:00.880 this is really young people who are using this service. 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:03.520 And do we have any other inside about what kind 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:07.680 of financial habits an average B and PEL holder has. 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:11.599 Yeah, Well, interestingly, there's some other research from the Reserve 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:14.039 Bank of Australia that shows that if you have a 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:17.320 buy Now Pay Later account, you're less likely to have 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.240 a credit card than someone who doesn't have a buy 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:22.880 and Now Pay Later account. So according to the RBA, 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:26.640 this reflects that some customers who might not be eligible 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.200 for a credit card might actually be using a buy 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.080 Now Pay Later account instead. 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:33.280 And I'm interested to tease that out a little bit 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:35.280 more with you when we get to what the government 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:37.320 has proposed, because that's kind of one of these key 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:38.039 points of tension. 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:39.840 Yeah, so we'll come back to that. But one more 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:41.760 thing that I want to add is that a twenty 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:46.280 twenty two survey by Monash University found that those experiencing 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.560 financial stress are seventy five percent more likely to use 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:53.360 buying our pay Later systems. So it's particularly used by 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.200 Australians who are experiencing financial stress. 0:06:56.320 --> 0:07:00.320 Okay, And the remarkable thing about this financial product is 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:02.640 that it's kind of come from nowhere. I mean, this 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:05.120 is quite new on the scene. When did it kind 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:07.679 of burst into everyone's financial planning. 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:11.160 Yeah, it has become very popular in the last decade 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:15.160 or so, but especially during the pandemic, which is quite interesting, 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:17.960 I think so. Just in twenty twenty, again, according to 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:21.200 the Reserve Bank, by Now Pay Later services grew by 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:24.320 over fifty percent in the second half of twenty twenty 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:26.920 compared to the same period a year earlier. That is 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:29.520 a huge growth in this industry. And in the last 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.720 financial year the value of buy now, Pay Later transactions 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:34.880 was about nineteen billion dollars. 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:38.080 And I think if you're a regular listener to this podcast, 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:41.200 there's this theme that emerges, whether we're talking about buy Now, 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.800 Pay Later, or AI or other kind of emerging areas 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:48.000 of tech, especially that the law takes a little bit 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:50.920 of time to catch up, and you know, there's this 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:54.160 sense of the law as always a few years behind, 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:57.360 and they're constantly doing reports, investigations, and now they have 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:00.880 actually come out with a position on how by now 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:02.760 pay later should be policed, right. 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:05.560 Yeah, and the government says that in this policy, they 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:07.360 say that the growth of a buy now, pay later 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:12.760 sector was not contemplated by policymakers who were drafting our 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:13.760 credit legislation. 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:16.720 So that's the legislation that governs things like a credit card, 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:19.480 and there's quite strict regulations around that. I mean, it's 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:22.119 not an uncommon experience to be rejected from a credit 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:24.800 card application, for example. So now let's get to the 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.320 BNPL legislation. What does it look like. 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:29.760 So, like we said, buy now, Pay later is not 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:34.119 right now regulated under the same frameworks as credit card companies, 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:37.280 and they actually fall under the exemption part of the 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:40.400 Australian Credit Act. And this has made it easier for 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:43.760 consumers to use buy now, Pay later because it doesn't 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:47.080 require the same approval as credit cards or loans which 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:50.679 check a person's credit history. So basically the Credit Act 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:52.800 is designed to make sure that someone is in the 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:55.560 right financial position to use a credit card, and that 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:58.600 is not a requirement for Buy now Pay Latter services 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.480 got it and so policy makers have identified a few 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:05.560 key concerns here, including excessive late payment fees and lack 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:09.240 of warnings about using the services. And basically, as we 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:13.160 mentioned above, people experiencing financial stress are the most likely 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:15.679 to use buy now, Pay Later, and that is an 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.040 area that the government wants to help solve. 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:18.560 Got it. 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:21.840 And we mentioned before that some people have multiple accounts. Yeah, 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:23.960 one reason for why that could happen is if you 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:27.240 get banned from one account because you've accumulated too much debt, 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:30.880 and then you just open another account with another provider, 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:33.400 and again you can accumulate too much debt there, and 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:35.920 then you just keep going from provider to provider, and 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.320 at the moment, there is no law that stops that 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:38.960 from happening. 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:42.400 Right. That's a really interesting point because these services are designed, 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.200 and this is what they'll tell you. They're designed to 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:46.920 make sure that you don't go into too much debt. 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:49.000 They'll kind of cut you off if they can see 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:51.680 that you're an unreliable person to pay it back. But 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:54.040 there's nothing stopping you from going to a couple and 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:57.080 all of a sudden that debt does become overwhelming exactly, 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:00.000 So what's the government doing or what's the government proposed 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:02.040 rather to actually do about all of this. 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:05.280 So it's proposing to take buy now, pay later schemes 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:09.199 out of the exemption list under the Credit Act, meaning 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.520 it will be regulated under the same laws as credit cards. 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:16.160 So under the bill introduced yesterday, buy now Pay Later 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:19.600 providers would need to have an Australian credit license and 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:22.439 would be subject to, like I said, the existing credit 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:25.560 card laws, which is regulated by the Australian Securities and 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:29.560 Investments Commission. Now, what does this mean for consumers for 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:32.040 the people listening, So it means that by now pay 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:35.640 later providers could need to check a person's credit score 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:40.000 and also assess whether a person is financially suitable to 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:43.040 pay back the credit that they're accumulating. And basically what 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:45.080 the government is saying is that they are trying to 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:48.760 protect financially vulnerable consumers from accumulating debt. 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:51.800 There's actually a really interesting example just over the ditch 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:55.000 in New Zealand where they've introduced similar legislation. They've kind 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:57.040 of said, if you're going to operate by now pay 0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:59.439 later services in the country, you all have to follow 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:01.520 the same rule, and it kind of sounds like that's 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:04.360 what's happening here as well. What has the government said 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:06.040 about why this is so important? 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:08.920 So Assistant treasure Stephen Jones, who is the person who 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:12.640 has introduced this to Parliament, basically said, like I said before, 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:15.360 this is all about making the market a safer place. 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:17.920 Here's what he said on the ABC yesterday. 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.920 We want to ensure that those consumer protections that we 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:25.280 think are necessary for credit products apply to the buy 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:28.400 and ow pay later sector. And when we put in 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:31.160 place to these new laws, that's exactly what will happen. 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:35.560 It'll ensure that we maintain the great innovation and competition 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:38.320 that the buy and our pay later sector is introduced 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:41.800 into credit markets, but the same consumer protections will be 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:42.680 in place as well. 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:44.920 And also just a quick note that TDA did reach 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.679 out to the opposition for comment, but we didn't receive 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:50.040 a response at the time of recording this episode. 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:51.680 And as with any story that we try and do 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:53.960 on this podcast, I do think it's important to explore 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:56.800 some of the balance in this and hear from the 0:11:56.800 --> 0:12:00.679 buy now payload companies themselves. Have they come out statements 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:03.160 since all of this has been released, and what's their 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:06.079 position on their role in consumers' lives. 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:10.520 Yeah, so, unsurprisingly there's quite a different story from after Pay, 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:13.120 which we've mentioned, and they're one of the major buying now, 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:16.560 pay later companies, so they've told a really different story 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:19.680 on the role they play in consumers' lives. They released 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:22.760 some of their internal research yesterday that showed that one 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:26.839 in three after pay users cited improvements in their financial 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:30.199 management while using the service, and they say that twenty 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:33.400 five percent said it allowed them to save more. So 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:37.120 they're basically saying that they're actually helping people financially, not 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:40.520 disadvantaging them. Further, Okay, and in terms of the company's 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.920 response to the government's proposal, when this legislation was in 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:47.520 an earlier draft phase, they submitted some feedback and they 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:51.240 said that they should only have to conduct partial credit checks. 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.559 But also importantly they did acknowledge concerns that this could 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:57.960 allow consumers to hide debts with other providers. 0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:00.160 And so a partial credit check could look like no 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.400 touching base with one particular government agency to see if 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:05.320 you have a debt there or or you know, it 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:07.560 could be like if you've got unpaid for parking fine 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.160 or something. Yeah, it's not a full credit check that's 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:12.520 being proposed by the legislation, which would be as if 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.040 you're applying for a credit card, do you have any 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.160 other loans? How are you going with your mortgage, how 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:19.400 are you going with your hex? All that kind of stuff. 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:22.319 And one more response that I think is worth mentioning 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:24.400 is from ZIP, who are one of the other big 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:27.480 buy now, pay later companies. They also responded to the 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:31.320 government's proposal saying they already hold a credit license and 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:35.120 they also already conduct checks on customers they claim. They 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.520 also told the ABC quote, we are supportive of the 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:40.120 government holding all providers in the sector to the same 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:41.000 minimum standard. 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:42.600 Okay, so they're taking more of a kind of New 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.559 Zealand esque approach to how they want to operate within 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:48.320 the environment. It's really interesting that even within the buy now, 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:51.240 pay later sector, there's a diversity of opinions. And that's 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:54.040 not unlike any real industry. I mean, there's always going 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.040 to be differing ways to do this, but it's going 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:59.280 to be interesting to see what happens here because I mean, 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:03.840 these are not traditional conventional credit products, as the legislation 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:07.240 understands it, and so the law is trying to change 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:10.679 to meet the times, and you know it will impact 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:14.480 millions of people who currently use these services every day. 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:16.560 I think we'll leave the conversation there though. Thanks for 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.080 joining us Billy to explain that, and thank you for 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:21.680 listening to The Daily Oz. We'll be back again in 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:24.000 your ears tomorrow morning. If you enjoy that episode, drop 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:26.200 us a note in a comments tell us your experience 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:27.720 with buy Now, Pay Later. I think it's a really 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:30.400 valuable story for us all to engage in. Thank you 0:14:30.440 --> 0:15:01.960 so much. We'll speak to you again tomorrow. My name 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:05.240 is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bunjelung Calcuttin 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:06.680 woman from Gadighl country. 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.680 The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:13.200 the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:16.720 all Aboriginal and Torrestrate island and nations. We pay our 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:19.880 respects to the first peoples of these countries, both past 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:20.480 and present.