1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: The Independent Member for Blaine, Mark Turner, has referred two 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: matters relating to the Chief Minister and her office to 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: the Northern Territories corruption watchdog. That's according to a report 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: by the ABC yesterday. He issued a statement on Tuesday 5 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 1: saying that he'd received confidential legal advice in the wake 6 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: of a lack of response from the cabinets to alleged 7 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: serious issues. Part of mister Turner's referral to the Northern 8 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: Territories EYKAK. In part of it, he said that it 9 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: related to Jared Richardson's consultancy position as a political advisor 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: to the Chief Minister Natasha Files. Now Mark Turner, the 11 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: Member for Blaine, joins me in the studio right now. 12 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Mark. 13 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 2: Good morning Katie. 14 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 3: Oh hang on, I've got. 15 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: The wrong microphone on. Let's try that once again. Good 16 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: morning again. 17 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 2: Good morning Katie. 18 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 3: How can here? 19 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 1: Now? Thank you so much for your time this morning. 20 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: Now tell me what's the concern here. 21 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 2: It just doesn't pass the pub test and I've tried 22 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 2: to do this the right way for your listeners benefit. 23 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 2: The IKAK shouldn't be the go to for absolutely everything. 24 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 2: They just don't have the stuff but one of the 25 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 2: rules under the IKAC Act is that they let the 26 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 2: Territory Parliament deal with its own issues as need be. 27 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 2: But that hasn't happened. You know, it's been probably a 28 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 2: month since I written to the Territory Cabinet saying you've 29 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 2: got these issues. Territory Cabinet handbooks really clear on how 30 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 2: we should deal with them. We just need to deal 31 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 2: with them so that the public have integrity in our process. 32 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 1: So you have questioned, you've questioned. You've also questioned whether 33 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: this actually needs to be referred to the police. What 34 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: is it that you think might need to be referred 35 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: to the police. 36 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 2: So under the Criminal Code Act, there's offenses around. You've 37 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 2: got your general capsules of corruption and the like, but 38 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 2: there's also offenses of advancing secret personal interests. I think 39 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 2: the last time that these offenses probably came up was 40 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 2: during the travel issues with our previous police commissioner, and 41 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: they were well ventilated in the courts. But it's the silence, 42 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: you know, why not just deal with it, move on 43 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 2: with it, And it's we're seeing exactly what happened with 44 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 2: the turf club all over again. 45 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: So well, I guess for some people listening, they're going 46 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: to be wondering how and why, because, like you're talking 47 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 1: about I suppose the Chief Minister's shares, she's now divested 48 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 1: those shares, but the shares aspect, but also staffer Jared 49 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:26,239 Speaker 1: Richardson being the co owner of a consultancy firm, Brookline Advisory, 50 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: which has listed gas company Tambora and Resources as one 51 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 1: of its clients on the Federal Lobbyist Register since November eight. 52 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: So is it both of those issues that you are 53 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: worried about or what you know? Like, what exactly are 54 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: you worried about? 55 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 2: Yeah? The first the shares fiasco was a mess. It 56 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 2: wasn't a good look and there's proper ways to deal 57 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 2: with it. Having your senior advisors being the registered lobbyists 58 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 2: for gas companies, you just can't do it. And again 59 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 2: it's not something that would happen anywhere else in Australia. 60 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 3: And so do you think it's enough now? 61 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: Obviously don't think it's enough that the Chief Minister's divested 62 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: her shares and that mister Richardson has indeed, by the 63 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: look of verse, well he registered himself as a lobbyist 64 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: for Brookline Advisory as well. 65 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 2: No, I don't think it's enough. I've got constituents in 66 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 2: my electorate who I know have gone through internal matters 67 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 2: where they've been told off for doing things like volunteering 68 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: as it being a conflict of interest, you know, cleaning 69 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 2: the neighbor's house being a conflict of interest from the 70 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 2: department going through their emails or network drives. And we've 71 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 2: got public servants seeing here going why is it do 72 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: what I say? 73 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: Not as I do now I know the Opposition leader 74 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: Leafanocchio has now promised, according to a report on the ABC, 75 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: to establish a lobbyist register for the jurisdiction if elected 76 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: to government next year. That pledge does indeed come after 77 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: you'd refer the Chief Minister to the Northern Territory's corruption 78 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: watch dog. 79 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 3: Do you think that that is a good move? 80 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 2: Very, It's what needs to be done. Transparency is the 81 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 2: best form of disinfectant. And if you've got a lobbyist register, 82 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 2: and I believe there's been push from the Independence in 83 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 2: Canberra to do it as well. It was certainly on 84 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 2: my radar. So no. Ten out of ten to the COLP. 85 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 3: I never thought i'd say that, no, how would it work? 86 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: Like you know, would it just be a situation then 87 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 1: where absolutely everything has to obviously be there and in 88 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:34,679 Speaker 1: front of mind. 89 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 2: I think so, And I think, you know, politicians shouldn't 90 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 2: be shy about what they're getting involved in. You know, 91 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 2: if the Chief Minister is a massive fan of oil 92 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 2: and gas and loves oil and gas, just come out 93 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 2: and say I love oil and gas and my chief 94 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 2: advisor's lobbying for oil and gas. What people don't like 95 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 2: is the whiff of dodginess about it that I want 96 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 2: to say this to one group, I'm going to say 97 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 2: this to another group, and I'll say this to another 98 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 2: group because I want to get re elected. 99 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: Now, I know that you know that you had previously 100 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: really called for an emergency cabinet meeting to take place. 101 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: You had said, you know that we had sent a 102 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: letter to the Attorney General saying that the Chief Minister's shareholding, well, 103 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 1: it constituated an apparent breach of the Ministerial Code of Conduct. 104 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: In terms of where this is all at now as 105 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: we lead into Christmas, what do you think needs to happen? 106 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 2: Well, if you're following the rule book, and I've put 107 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 2: it up on my social media and it's actually an 108 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 2: open access document for everybody to read. They should have 109 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 2: called the cabinet meeting. The cabinet should have decided if 110 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 2: they're not going to do that. There's very few avenues 111 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 2: to push them, apart from territorians at the ballot box. 112 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 2: In less, the KA Commissioner, and I steadfastly respect his 113 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 2: independence in the role, makes a decision that it's going 114 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 2: to be in his ballpark to deal with. 115 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: I guess so often, you know, there are investigations that 116 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: then we really sort of don't even see the details 117 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 1: of either, do we. So it's going to be hard 118 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: to know exactly where this goes to from here. 119 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 2: Well, this is why you should and this is why 120 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: you know. When the IKAC legislation went through, the hearing 121 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 2: should be in private. But if there is a public 122 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 2: interest aspect to it, and especially when you're talking about 123 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: the highest offices in the Northern Territory, it should be 124 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 2: public because people should know about it now. 125 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 1: One of the other issues that's been bubbling along this 126 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: week is the calls from Robin Lamley or the concerns 127 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: I guess raised from Robin Lamley about some information not 128 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: sort of coming to light to the public around different 129 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: incidents that that are going on with well crime in 130 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: the Northern Territory. 131 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 3: Where do you stand on this? 132 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: Do you think that we are really receiving all the 133 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: information that we should be from the Northern Territory Police. 134 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 2: I can tell you you're not receiving all the information 135 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 2: that you should be. Obviously, I've got quite a lot 136 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 2: of connections and we're in this really weird situation where 137 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 2: it appears to be a marketing and exercise more than 138 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 2: a government department. And again, I've never seen anything like 139 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 2: this in twenty years of policing. 140 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: So you think that information is being withheld? I mean 141 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: the opposition leader yesterday is sort of questioned, I guess 142 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: whether that is coming from the top i e. 143 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 3: The government? 144 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: You know, whether that information then is not coming out 145 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: because the government's concerned about the impact that it's going 146 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: to have on them. But surely the police, you know, 147 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: surely they are acting in a way that they should 148 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: be where public safety is the first concern. 149 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 2: You've worked in the media, Katie. The from what I 150 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 2: can gather, the atmosphere has changed drastically from when we 151 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 2: were in the AD building. So it's going it's difficult, 152 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 2: and you saw I don't know. I had it on 153 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 2: Saturday night. I was sitting there for hours waiting for 154 00:07:58,160 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 2: a police van because we had somebody threatening to be 155 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 2: old ladies in Blaine, just down the corner from my house. 156 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 2: I called in a DV about eight nine o'clock, got 157 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 2: a phone call at one thirty. Nobody had attended. Got 158 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 2: a call back a day later, still nobody had attended. 159 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 2: You can't do something with nothing, but by the same token, 160 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 2: you don't want the public to be fearful, but they 161 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 2: deserve the truth. 162 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, I think it's a tough juggle. 163 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: And as you mentioned, you know, twenty years ago I 164 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: worked in the police media units. I actually worked out 165 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: at the PETERM. Cauley Center. That's how long ago it was. 166 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: So that was a long long time ago. And look, 167 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: I don't know that the resourcing level has changed much 168 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: in that twenty years, but we do know that the 169 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: crime levels have increased over that. 170 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 3: Period of time astronomically, you know. 171 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: And I do think that there is that concern at 172 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: the moment from members of the public. There is some 173 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: information that simply is not coming out. We did ask 174 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: the acting Assistant Commissioner about it yesterday. He said, there 175 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: are thirty five thousand call outs I believe a month, 176 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: and so there is a lot. You know, there's a 177 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: huge volume of information that they're trying to get through 178 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 1: and they can't send a pressure ace out about everything. 179 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: And I understand that, but when you're talking about very 180 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: serious offenses, that's when the public expect to know. 181 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 2: Oh definitely, you think I spent what was it three 182 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 2: four minutes on hold triple zero. The calls are supposed 183 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 2: to be answered in five to ten seconds. You look 184 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 2: at the DV figures and they're through the roof. You 185 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 2: look at the child sexual assault figures, they're through the roof. 186 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 2: It's we saw this when we had the coronial on 187 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 2: and you had the poor sergeant come out and tell 188 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 2: the truth and then get what appeared to be a 189 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 2: public excoriation for it, and then they had to backtrack 190 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 2: because he was telling the truth. And luckily the coroner 191 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 2: went down to comms and saw it happen. But that's 192 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 2: why people smell a rat and again, just be open, 193 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: tell the truth. You know, people can see it out 194 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 2: the front doors. It's same as the whole wear and 195 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 2: tear thing. 196 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: I mean, does it just come down to it well 197 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: though our police at the moment are absolutely overworked. I 198 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: mean you and I have spoken about this on so 199 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: many occasions. You'd called for a Royal commission into police resourcing. 200 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 3: Is that what it comes down to as well? 201 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 2: Again, it's a complicated one. We've got more police per 202 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 2: one hundred thousand than anywhere else in the country. It's 203 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 2: so somewhere around seven hundred and thirty. Your average things 204 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 2: between one hundred and eighty two hundred and fifty. So 205 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 2: we're obviously doing something wrong. But the police that we've got, 206 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 2: we don't know where they are. And again, the electronic 207 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 2: rostering system something I keep going on about. It's not difficult. 208 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 2: We've got at my Sunday school. The governments still haven't 209 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 2: managed to implement it. But we don't know where our 210 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 2: people are. So if we've got all of these police officers, 211 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 2: and I know the minister's telling the truth, we've got 212 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 2: record funding, So where is it going? And unfortunately, like 213 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 2: you said about resourcing, the Order a General doesn't have 214 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 2: the resources because hers have never gone up to do 215 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 2: an order on the Big three of health, education and police. 216 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 3: Mark Turner, we are going to have to wrap up. 217 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,839 Speaker 1: But tell us mate, you're definitely running as a as 218 00:10:57,880 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: an independent next year at the election. 219 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 2: Yes, I'm The feedback from my community has been absolutely 220 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:08,719 Speaker 2: emphatically yes, please do it. So as long as I've 221 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:13,079 Speaker 2: got their backing and my wife doesn't put her foot down, well. 222 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: Well we'll be able to have you on the week 223 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: that was sometimes next year as well. You'll have to 224 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: wrestle with Keesy Apuric to get in here. She is 225 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: obviously a regular on the show. But yep, we'll no 226 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: doubt have you on the show on the week that 227 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: was next year. 228 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 2: Brilliant. Thank you very much, Katie. 229 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 3: Thank you appreciate your time this morning.