1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for. 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 2: The time poor parent who just wants answers Now. 3 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: Every month we do one particular episode on the Happy 4 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: Families Podcast that I look forward to as much as 5 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: any other episode. I'll do better. It's tomorrow. As much 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: as I love that, it's not even book club, as 7 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: much as I love that, today is the day that 8 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: we're diving in with the one that I've been waiting 9 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: for all year. 10 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 2: You say that like you've been waiting forever. It's only February. 11 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: Well, it's only February and we haven't done it yet. 12 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 1: First one for the year. This is I feel like 13 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: I need a fan fair, Jr. Can we please have 14 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: a fan fair? Thank you? The Doctor's Desk. 15 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 2: I've never hit in the fact, this isn't my favorite episode. 16 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: Oh I think that today we're going to do something 17 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: about that today on the Doctor's Desk. For those of 18 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: you who are new to the podcast, welcome. Doctor's Desk 19 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: is basically me looking at either recent research or maybe 20 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: some old favorites that help us to understand how we 21 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: can help our kids to thrive more. At the start 22 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: of the school year, I decided today we're going to 23 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: dive into the education sector and we're going to talk 24 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 1: about what is great for kids when it comes to 25 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: schooling and what's not so great. So if you're a teacher, 26 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: if you're a coach, and certainly if you're a parent, 27 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 1: I think you're going to get loads out of today's conversation. 28 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 2: So we have three studies for you today. We've got 29 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 2: some classroom packs to help motivate students. We're looking at 30 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 2: how mindset impacts academic achievement, and we're also going to 31 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 2: look at how sending our kids to high achieving schools 32 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 2: might actually be bad for them. 33 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: I can't wait, So let's do the first one. This 34 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: one's about engagement motivation at school. If you're a parent, 35 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,759 Speaker 1: you'll note that the same principles that we've unpacked from 36 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: the study we're about to touch on work equally well 37 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: in your living room or your children's bedroom, or the kitchen. 38 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: And if we're a sports coach, maybe a swimming coach, 39 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: netball coach, cricket coach, soccer coach, whatever, you'll find these 40 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: same principles apply. So we've got a science classroom. Okay, 41 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: in fact, forty one science classes two hundred and eighths 42 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: high school students six week period, the kids are reporting 43 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: on how motivated and engaged they are in science class 44 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: as well as the classroom strategies that the teacher is adopting. 45 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: And what the research has found was that when teachers 46 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,359 Speaker 1: adopted what we're going to call autonomy supportive practices, the 47 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: kids were much more engaged and much more motivated. And 48 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: when teachers adopted autonomy thwarting practices, unsurprisingly, engagement and motivation dropped. 49 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 2: So we talk about autonomy support a lot on the podcast, 50 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 2: but you're talking about specific practices that we can do 51 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 2: that will help boost our children's motivation. 52 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: Exactly and engagement. 53 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 2: So what are those like? What are the practices that 54 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:39,679 Speaker 2: we can do to do that? 55 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: So I'm going to share four things that do work, 56 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: and then I'm going to share three things that work 57 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: against high levels of what the research is called autonomous motivation. 58 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: You might call it intrinsic motivation. We're just talking about engagement, okay, 59 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: So what boosts that engagement, that autonomous motivation, that desire 60 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: to learn and be involved. Four things. Number One, providing 61 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: a really clear rationale for what you're asking the behavioral request. 62 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: Here's what I want you to do and this is why. 63 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: This is why it works, This is why it matters. 64 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 1: Number two, giving students as much choice as you possibly 65 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: can within the confines and the restrictions of the curriculum. 66 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: At number three, considering what students are actually interested in, 67 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 1: what they prefer like, their preferences and interests matter, and 68 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: number four giving them opportunities to ask questions. Those are 69 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: the four things that boost autonomous motivation. What makes it drop? 70 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: Number one controlling messaging, do this, do that? Not like that? 71 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: Like this, suppression of student perspectives. In other words, I'm 72 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: being really blunt here. I don't really care what you think. 73 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: We just need to do this. This is what we're 74 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: doing now. And number three the use of uninteresting activities. 75 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: So essentially, whether you're a school teacher or a parent, 76 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: or a coach or I don't know, maybe a church 77 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,119 Speaker 1: leader who knows you're working down at the local surf 78 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: club with kids, if you can provide a rationale, give 79 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: them as much choice as is reasonable for the task, 80 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: consider their preferences and interests as much as possible, and 81 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: give them opportunities to ask questions, they'll be much more 82 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: engaged and motivated. If you're controlling, if you don't consider 83 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: their perspectives, and if you do the things that they 84 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: think are de boring, then their motivation and their engagement 85 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: are going to plummet. 86 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 2: This actually played out in our kitchen yesterday as I 87 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 2: was teaching Emily her health lesson. We've been talking a 88 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 2: lot at home about healthy eating habits and choices, and 89 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: this is something that miss Nina actually struggles a lot with. Well, 90 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 2: let's be honest, we're all struggling a bit with it, 91 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 2: a lot a little. But part of her lesson was 92 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 2: to unpack the healthy eating pyramid and describe how many 93 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 2: serves she was supposed to have, what they included. And 94 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 2: as we looked at it, she recognized that there was 95 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: definitely some deficits in her eating and we then were 96 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,359 Speaker 2: able to kind of explore and discuss the ways that 97 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 2: she might change that. And as a result of that, 98 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 2: she decided that she wants to create healthy eating pyramid 99 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 2: of her own, cutting out foods and adding them to it. 100 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 2: And then as she makes her meals each day or 101 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,119 Speaker 2: sits down to the table to eat, she can actually 102 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 2: look at the healthy pyramid and be reminded of whether 103 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 2: or not her plate has everything on it that it needs. 104 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: I see what you're doing. You're trying to take over 105 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: the doctor's desk and move away from science into practice. 106 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 1: I see what you're doing. This is undermining my science 107 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: by actually putting it to good use. I love it. 108 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: But what you're describing is autonomy supportive practice. You've sat 109 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: down and explained why you're doing. By the way, for 110 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: those who missed the memo, we're homeschool we're homeschooling. That's 111 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: why Kylie's teaching a health class to our nine year old. 112 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: You're giving her a whole lot of choice around what 113 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: she's doing and how she's doing it. Definitely giving credit 114 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 1: for her preferences and interests, and no doubt she's asking 115 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: you a whole lot of questions and engaging with you 116 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: because she's got you one on one. What you're not 117 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: doing is controlling her, stopping her from having a perspective 118 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: or doing an uninteresting activity. So that's studying number one, 119 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 1: our second one. This is a provocative one, Kylie. Everyone's 120 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: heard of Carol Dweck Growth mindset, fixed mindset. Prior to 121 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: being known for growth mindset content, Carol Dweck wrote a 122 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: book called Self Theories. It was one of my favorite 123 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 1: books in the early two thousands, and her work has 124 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: literally changed the education landscape. It's essentially championed, i would say, 125 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: by anyone who wants to encourage trying, and that's a 126 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: good thing, and it's built on this substantial and impressive 127 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: body of research. She's a Stanford psychologist, got a great 128 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: name across the world, but unfortunately her research over the 129 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: last decade or so has become increasingly controversial. The reason 130 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: for that is it's getting harder and harder to replicate 131 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: what she's found in her studies. Supportive evidence from researchers 132 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: other than Carol Dweck is really thin on the ground. 133 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:50,559 Speaker 1: So this is where I want to bring in Brook 134 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: Matt Namara and Alexander Burgoyne. They have done some research 135 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: that is really a devastating blow to everything that Carol 136 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: Dweck and her mindset research have given us. What they 137 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: did was they did a review of empirical studies and 138 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: looked at how well those studies adhered to a set 139 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: of best practices that are essential for drawing causal conclusions 140 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: in scientific research. And they also conducted three meta analyses. 141 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: Are you still with me. Just okay, you know what 142 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: a meta analysis is, metamines looking at something from the outside. 143 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: So this is a study of all the studies that 144 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: have been done on mindset research. They did three meta analyses, 145 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: and they looked at all these other studies and basically said, 146 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: are the people who are doing mindset research following best 147 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: practice best scientific practice to give us the right to 148 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: give us results that we can actually rely on and 149 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: replicate in other studies. And here's what they found. They 150 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: examined sixty three studies. There were just under one hundred 151 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: thousand participants across those sixty three studies, so we're looking 152 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: at big, big studies, big numbers. And they found, and 153 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: I'm reading this directly from the abstract. Now, quote major 154 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: shortcomings in study design, analysis and reporting, and suggestions of 155 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: researcher and publication bias. Authors with a financial incentive to 156 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: report positive findings published significantly larger effects than authors without 157 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: this incentive. Close quote. Now. I know it sounds like 158 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: I'm geeking out fully on science and I'm talking about 159 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: a whole lot of academic speak, but this really matters. 160 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 2: Well, how do you replicate someone's mindset though you. 161 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: Don't replicate a mindset, but you replicate the research. So 162 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: the idea is, when when we write up a research report, 163 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:35,199 Speaker 1: we say, here's the scientific literature we're leaning on, here's 164 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: the way that we've done the study, this is our method. 165 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: We're going to look at the participants. We're going to 166 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: look at the materials that are used, or the questionnaires 167 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: that we used, or the experimental design. We're going to 168 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: really make sure that the procedure is something that somebody 169 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 1: else could do, because anyone can go and do a 170 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: study and say here's what I found, but if no 171 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: one can go and replicate that, you don't know how 172 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: reliable that finding is. And psychology is really suffering from 173 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: a crisis of relic ability right now. A whole lot 174 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: of people have done shoddy research over the years, and 175 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: we don't know as much as we thought we'd known 176 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 1: because research can't be reproduced, and if it can't be reproduced, 177 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: we've got a problem. So essentially, these researchers are looking 178 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: at whether or not best practice has been followed. It 179 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: hasn't been. What they found was very very small effects 180 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: of mindset interventions. Now, mindset intervention is where we step 181 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: in and we say we want to shift your mindset. 182 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: We want you to no longer have a fixed mindset 183 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: about your intelligence. We want you to have a growth 184 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: mindset about your intelligence. We don't want you to think 185 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: any longer that you're not very smart or you are 186 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: very smart. What we want you to think instead is 187 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: that your mind is malleable. It's pliable, it's mouldable. That's 188 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 1: the idea. That's what they're trying to do. 189 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 2: It's just a real tangent. But I'm listening to you. 190 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 2: Why would you want to replicate other people's research. It's 191 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 2: already been done to. 192 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: Make sure that it's legitimate. Let me give you a 193 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: really concrete example. Back in the fifties and sixties and 194 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: even into the seventies, a whole lot of researchers started 195 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: to ask big questions about how smoking affected physical health, 196 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: and it took hundreds of replicated studies before government really 197 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,439 Speaker 1: started to listen and take action to protect people from 198 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: the damage of smoking. One study wasn't enough to convince people. 199 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: It took hundreds of studies before government said, hmm, there 200 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,199 Speaker 1: might be something here. In the same way, if we're 201 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: going to run interventions in schools and people are going 202 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: to pay thousands ten. I mean this is a multi multi, 203 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,839 Speaker 1: multi million, probably tens of millions of dollars tied up 204 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: in the whole mindset intervention thing. If schools governments are 205 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: spending our tax dollars on mindset interventions to help students 206 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: who are struggling to improve their mindset and study better, 207 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: we want to make sure that those mindset interventions are 208 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: working because there's big dollars involved in it, and there's 209 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: children's psychology, children's opportunity to learn. So what this research 210 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: is really saying, here's the short version. Consistent with other 211 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: researchers who have also done similar meter analysis, these two 212 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 1: researchers conclude that the apparent effects of growth mindset interventions 213 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: on academic achievement are likely attributable to an adequate study 214 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: design and reporting flaws and bias. 215 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 2: So what there isn't really such a thing as growth 216 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 2: mindset is that what it's saying. 217 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: It says that when we do a growth mindset intervention 218 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: at a school level, it's not moving the needle. So 219 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: it's not saying that growth mindset isn't real. What it 220 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: is saying is when we step into a school environment, 221 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: there are so many other factors that matter here that 222 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: any significant findings have come from reporting flaws or an 223 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: inadequate study, or some sort of bias on the part 224 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: of the researchers. It's not actually doing what it's supposed 225 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: to be doing, and therefore people who are investing in 226 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: this may be paying a whole lot of money for 227 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,319 Speaker 1: something that's not going to do anything at all other 228 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 1: than make people feel good that they think that they're 229 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: doing something interesting. So when I look at this, I 230 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: kind of think, well, is mindset research right? Big question 231 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: marks over that, big question marks? Is it useful? I 232 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: actually still think that it is. And what I mean 233 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: by that is when somebody has a fixed mindset and 234 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 1: they think they have lower ability, they just won't try. 235 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: They won't put in any effort. Therefore they'll never make progress. 236 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,959 Speaker 1: Whereas if we have what's known as a growth mindset, 237 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: the idea that effort brings results means that the person 238 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: might actually have a go. Therefore, they're going to make 239 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,839 Speaker 1: more progress by trying than they will by not trying 240 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: at all. 241 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 2: So I guess in practical terms, for me, I had 242 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 2: a very fixed mindset about my capacity to draw and 243 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 2: paint right, and having gone through art school now for 244 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:45,079 Speaker 2: a few terms have opened up the possibility that maybe 245 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 2: I could be good at it. 246 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, Henry Fullard basically said this. He said, whether you 247 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: think you can or you think you can't, you're probably right. 248 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: And that's the very essence of what mindsets are all about. 249 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: The research is not pointing to interventions working at a 250 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: whole of school level. But what I think does happen 251 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: is when we give people the opportunity to have a go, 252 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: and if we can tap into their motivation by focusing 253 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: on what we talked about in study one, we get 254 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: results that matter, results that help, results that lead to 255 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: progress and development and mastery. 256 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 2: Well, I guess we'd better get onto study number three. 257 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 2: Because you've talked so long. 258 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 1: I'm going to blame you for sharing great stories and 259 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: asking great questions because you did become intrigued. Now, at 260 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: the start of the podcast we said we were going 261 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: to talk about three studies. We are out of time. 262 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: I don't think that it's fair that we try to 263 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: dive into and layer another study on top of what 264 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: we've already shared, and the two that we've shared, really 265 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: they coexist quite nicely. So for those of you who 266 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: would like to know how going to high achieving schools 267 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: is potentially bad for your kids' health. Jump onto the 268 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: blog at happy families dot com dot IU. While you're there, 269 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: you'll see the article that I'm referencing and all the 270 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,319 Speaker 1: information about why sending your kids to high achieving schools 271 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: could potentially be bad for their mental health. I will 272 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: just share this one stat recent research review shows unrelenting 273 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: pressures in high achieving schools is associated with anxiety and 274 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 1: depression at a rate and astounding six to seven times 275 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: higher than average for students that age. Fascinating stuff. So 276 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us for the Doctor's 277 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: Desk Special Education edition. As we kick off twenty twenty 278 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: four with some high quality science tomorrow on the Happy 279 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: Families Podcast, we are delighted and excited to bring you 280 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: our very first I'll do better tomorrow for the year. 281 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: The Happy Families Podcast is produced by Justin Roland for 282 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. For more 283 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: information about making your family happy, we would love for 284 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: you to visit us at Happy families dot com dot AU.