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Speaker 1: And as we discussed at length yesterday, it was a

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Speaker 1: bad weekend of crime. Several cars stolen in both Darwin

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Speaker 1: and in Alice Springs, damaged to businesses, and sadly, a

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Speaker 1: woman was injured after being assaulted with a machete. Now

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Speaker 1: we're still a woman allegedly murdered at the hands of

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Speaker 1: a man who police say breached a domestic violence order.

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Speaker 1: The opposition leader Lea Fanocchiaro joins me on the line

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Speaker 1: right now. Good morning to you, Leah.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie, and I'm live from Alice Springs this morning.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll find out a bit more about that in

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Speaker 1: the moment, Lea. You concerned that someone who's allegedly on

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Speaker 1: a domestic violence order has committed such a horrendous crime.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's heartbreaking, Katie. And you know, with eighty one

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Speaker 2: percent increase in domestic and family violence over the last

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Speaker 2: eight years, people are asking when is enough enough and

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Speaker 2: when are the laws going to be strengthened to protect victims.

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Speaker 2: I'm actually out the front of a domestic and family

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Speaker 2: violence service provider here in our Springs that I'm about

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Speaker 2: to meet with them after after speaking with you, Katie,

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Speaker 2: this is a critical issue and just my most heartfelt

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Speaker 2: condolences to the friends and the family of this young

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Speaker 2: woman who's lost her life Lea.

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Speaker 1: In November twenty twenty two, we know the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: Parliament passed the Sentencing and Other Legislation Amendment Bill. It

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Speaker 1: removed compulsory jail time minimums for assault, drug offenses and

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Speaker 1: breaches of domestic violence orders. The sentencing reforms had promised

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Speaker 1: to deliver on in community rehabilitation programs, so Chancey Pake's

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Speaker 1: office assuring at the time that the drug and alcohol,

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Speaker 1: domestic violence and other enforced behavior change programs were ready

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Speaker 1: to roll and they're already accessible, that they were already

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Speaker 1: accessible in the community. From your understanding, and stepping away

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Speaker 1: from what's happened on the weekend because I don't have

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Speaker 1: the details in that space, and even if I, we

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be at liberty really to discuss them. But do

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Speaker 1: you think that those programs are operating as they should be?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think there's multiple failures here, Katie. The first

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Speaker 2: is that this government removed that minimum mandatory sentencing for

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Speaker 2: violent assaults, including for domestic violence perpetrators. This is something

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Speaker 2: the CLP does not support. It is something the community

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Speaker 2: do not support. But Chancey paid and Eva Lawla and

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Speaker 2: their entire labour team decided to go against what makes

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Speaker 2: sense to everyone else, and that is to keep those

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Speaker 2: laws there which keep people safe. They've gone against that

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Speaker 2: and they've removed it. Now. I heard on your show

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Speaker 2: yesterday Eva Laula trying to make some sort of ridiculous

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Speaker 2: justification for why you wouldn't have minimum sentencing. She tried

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Speaker 2: to pretend like it meant that judges would somehow be

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Speaker 2: able to give even tougher sentences. It's just excuse after excuse, Katie.

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Speaker 2: What we need is laws that meet community expectations. They

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Speaker 2: can be passed in Parliament very easily and quickly. Police

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Speaker 2: need better powers. And so what we've got is not

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Speaker 2: only a failure by this government to have laws that

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Speaker 2: protect people and the political will to make sure community

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Speaker 2: safety is number one, but you've then also got a

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Speaker 2: failure to roll out and deliver program Now this government again,

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Speaker 2: Chancey Pate would prefer to have people free out on

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Speaker 2: the street attending programs where they don't have to, they're

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Speaker 2: not forced to go. There's nothing the service providers can

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Speaker 2: do if the person doesn't attend and yet you have

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Speaker 2: this opportunity then for more harm to be caused on

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Speaker 2: our community and that can start. Contrast to the COOP

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Speaker 2: who believe that these types of behavior change programs should

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Speaker 2: be delivered in prison and a person should then be

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Speaker 2: made to complete those programs and leave prison better people.

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Speaker 1: So you believe that realistically, if somebody has found guilty

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Speaker 1: of domestic violence, a serious serious domestic violence, that they

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Speaker 1: should be serving a minimum mandatory jail term.

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Speaker 2: That there should be minimum mandatory sentence thing for all

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Speaker 2: types of violent crime. Katie and these This has been

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Speaker 2: removed by this government again.

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Speaker 1: So the sale the SEALP is going to go back

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Speaker 1: to mandatory sentencing by the sounds of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't like to use that term because people

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Speaker 2: get confused about the mandatory sentencing from the nineties. What

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Speaker 2: I want to make really clear is that minimum mandatory

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Speaker 2: sentencing means that if you commit certain offenses, you will

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Speaker 2: see a prison sentence of a minimum of that amount

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Speaker 2: of time. Now, what that also means is that the

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Speaker 2: judge can obviously make it longer if that is required.

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Speaker 2: But to have no minimum means that what we're seeing

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Speaker 2: is people not serving any time at all, and that

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Speaker 2: presents the continued risk to our community of repeat offending.

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Speaker 2: And we know repeat offending is causing around You know,

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Speaker 2: seventy five percent of people in prison in our prison

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Speaker 2: system have been in prison before.

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Speaker 1: I could potentially could it potentially though, see people who

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Speaker 1: maybe shouldn't you know who.

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Speaker 3: I mean.

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Speaker 1: Look, I don't want to minimize any kind of violent

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Speaker 1: offending because I don't think any of it's okay, But

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Speaker 1: could we potentially wind up in a situation where people

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Speaker 1: who maybe shouldn't be spending a jail term are in jail?

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Speaker 2: Look, Katie, I think at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: community safety is our number one priority. People have to

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Speaker 2: go through the court system. If the court finds someone

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Speaker 2: guilty of an offense that requires a mandatory minimum, that's

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Speaker 2: the law that's there to protect the community.

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Speaker 1: Now, don't be a lot of people saying this morning

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Speaker 1: that there's just not room for these changes as well

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Speaker 1: in the jail thoughly well.

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Speaker 2: And they would be correct. And again, look at the

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Speaker 2: system failure under eight years of labor. Not only do

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Speaker 2: we have weaker laws and more people out on the

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Speaker 2: streets than ever before who continue to destroy people's lives,

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Speaker 2: but we have a prison system bursting at the seams

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Speaker 2: because this government has deliberately failed to invest in new

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Speaker 2: correction or infrastruyre because they don't believe that people should

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Speaker 2: face consequences like prison. They don't believe in investing in

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Speaker 2: the prison system. But it's just core business of government, Katie.

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Speaker 2: It might not be the most exciting thing to talk

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Speaker 2: about as a government, but it's just their basics. It's

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Speaker 2: like running a hospital or a school. There are prison

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Speaker 2: systems that are required in any community and that's just

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Speaker 2: core business of government that they've failed to do.

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Speaker 3: LEA look, I want to ask you as well.

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Speaker 1: There are calls from some that those Litchfield flats be

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Speaker 1: knocked down.

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Speaker 3: Should that happen?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think there are a number of very very

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Speaker 2: old territory housing estates right across the territory that are

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Speaker 2: very much hot spots for crime and anti social behavior,

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Speaker 2: and just they need to be looked at. This is something,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's an old model and it's something that

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Speaker 2: needs to be addressed going forward. I mean people listening

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Speaker 2: probably can think of a number of areas in their

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Speaker 2: own suburbs or where they live. I know the oldest

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Speaker 2: suburbs have got much high identsity of that territory housing

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Speaker 2: and so it's something we're very acutely aware of. But

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Speaker 2: also around tenancy management, we get so many complaints from

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Speaker 2: the community, Katie about the fact that you know, a

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Speaker 2: lot of people in territory housing are abusing that right

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Speaker 2: to have a home and we have wait lists of

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Speaker 2: eighteen years of people who desperately need that safety net,

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Speaker 2: that security of a home. And yet there are people

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Speaker 2: taking up home who are taking advantage of the system

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Speaker 2: and have no regard for that home they've been given

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Speaker 2: the opportunity to have, so lea in my view, this

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Speaker 2: entire space needs an overhaul.

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Speaker 1: Look, I want to take you to some breaking news.

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Speaker 1: We know that the Australian newspaper had this morning been

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Speaker 1: reporting on the ICAC commissioner and the wife of the

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Speaker 1: nt ICAC commissioner offered twenty thousand dollars to settle a

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Speaker 1: domestic violence order. Now the Northern Territory Chief Minister has

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Speaker 1: just issued a statement saying that the KAC Commissioner is

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Speaker 1: currently on leave. The allegations raised in the meat relating

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Speaker 1: to the IKAC Commissioner have been referred to the IKAK

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Speaker 1: Inspector and this process will inform the next steps to

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Speaker 1: ensure the continuality of stability of the office of the

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Speaker 1: i CAAC. I'm immediately requesting the Administrator to appoint the deputy,

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Speaker 1: the current Deputy i CAC, Miss Naomi Louden, in the

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Speaker 1: role as the acting IKAC Commissioner. Miss Louden has acted

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Speaker 1: in that role previously and she was formerly a Crown

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Speaker 1: Prosecutor for the Director of Public Prosecutions, specializing in fraud

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Speaker 1: and corruption and has also been part of the current

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Speaker 1: investigations which are underway and will be able to lead

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Speaker 1: the office. And the statement continues by saying that she's

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Speaker 1: currently overseas on planned leave which commenced prior to those

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Speaker 1: allegations arising. She's been briefed on the matter and will

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Speaker 1: formally commence those official duties of the IKAC Commissioner from

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Speaker 1: the tenth of June upon her return. The v The

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister continues by saying the functions of the ICAC

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Speaker 1: is made up of a team of people who will

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Speaker 1: continue to operate over this period and they will be

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Speaker 1: independent to government and given the important nature of the

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Speaker 1: IKAK and its function to improve transparency, and oversight. When

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Speaker 1: the ICAC Inspector provides advice or recommendations on the situation

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Speaker 1: relating to the KAC Commissioner, we will provide an update

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Speaker 1: to the community.

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Speaker 3: Leah, do you support this move?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, that's the right move. We need to give

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Speaker 2: territorians confidence in that institution. The ICAC Inspector is the

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Speaker 2: person who watches the watch doom. They are the appropriate

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Speaker 2: person to deal with this and by moving to have

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Speaker 2: the Deputy k Commissioner take up that role is very

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Speaker 2: important to ensure continuity and of course confidence in the community.

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Speaker 1: Does the KAC Commissioner need to stand down while this

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Speaker 1: while these investigations are underway.

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Speaker 2: Well, the ICAC Inspector needs to be able to do

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Speaker 2: their job. The ikach offers needs to continue to do

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Speaker 2: their important job, and by making sure that the deputy

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Speaker 2: takes over during this interim period is very important for

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Speaker 2: that stability and continuity.

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Speaker 1: All Right, I've got a couple of issues I want

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Speaker 1: to power through because I know that we're both pretty

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Speaker 1: pressed for time. But something that I'd asked the Chief

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Speaker 1: Minister about yesterday now, on Friday, the Anti Discrimination Commissioner

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Speaker 1: had issued a statement saying that he's been approached by

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Speaker 1: the Attorney General to undertake a racism review. However, for

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Speaker 1: the past few months he's been in negotiations with the

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Speaker 1: Attorney General's Department, the Attorney General and the Minister for

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Speaker 1: Police concerning the necessary resources to conduct such a review.

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Speaker 1: The Commissioner says that to date, the funding put forward

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Speaker 1: to the Anti Discrimination Commission does not stretch to enable

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Speaker 1: the setup of a designated project team with carriage.

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Speaker 3: Of such a review for its full cycle.

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Speaker 1: The Chief Minister says that she understands that one hundred

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Speaker 1: and seventy thousand dollars has been put forward. Do you

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Speaker 1: believe that more funding should be made available.

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Speaker 2: Well, what I'm more concerned about is the revelation that

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Speaker 2: this review hasn't even commenced. I mean, our police are

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Speaker 2: out there finding the most hideous levels of crime we've

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Speaker 2: ever seen. There are allegations flying around all over the place.

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Speaker 2: We've had a very torrid time for our police, and

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Speaker 2: the government has spent months negotiating with the Anti Discrimination

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Speaker 2: Commission over how much money is needed for this review,

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Speaker 2: rather than just getting on with the job. I find

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Speaker 2: that totally unacceptable that our police, for months are being

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Speaker 2: dragged along with the threat of a review coming, and

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Speaker 2: yet nothing has been done.

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Speaker 1: What do you make soo of the call that potentially

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Speaker 1: what do you make of the call by the Anti

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Speaker 1: Discrimination Commissioner that some of the operational funding, that increase

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Speaker 1: in operational funding, that some of that.

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Speaker 3: Should go towards that review. Do you think that should happen?

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Speaker 2: No, our police need their budget to fight crime and

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Speaker 2: keep our community safe. That is the core role of police.

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Speaker 2: A review has been called into these alligations. It needed

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Speaker 2: to have been started months ago, not still squabbling about

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Speaker 2: it now. I mean, this is a government that just

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Speaker 2: can't act on anything that needs to be done. I'm

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Speaker 2: just horrified that this is still being dragged out. And again,

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Speaker 2: you know, we've got Chancey Paig, the Attorney General, unable

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Speaker 2: to do his job. We've got Eva Laula clearly not

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Speaker 2: having the oversight required to get Home ministers to actually

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Speaker 2: do their job. This is a government that is falling

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Speaker 2: apart and it's our police who are suffering as a

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Speaker 2: result of this. I just find this totally unacceptable that

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Speaker 2: for months and months and months a negotiation squabble overfunding

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Speaker 2: is what's stopping this from being done.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, I was quite surprised as well to find

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Speaker 1: that it wasn't actually underway. But we are going to

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Speaker 1: speak to the Northern Territories Anti Discrimination Commissioner on the

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Speaker 1: show tomorrow morning, so we'll try to get to the

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Speaker 1: bottom of.

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Speaker 3: Why that is the case.

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Speaker 1: Leah, I do want to ask Yesterday we spoke to

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Speaker 1: the Chief Minister about concerns which been raised by the

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Speaker 1: master builders here in the Northern Territory about new home

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Speaker 1: starts following the release of the latest ABS residential building

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Speaker 1: approvals data. Now, the CEO, Ben Carter, says only twenty

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Speaker 1: four new dwellings were approved for construction in April twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four. That's down twenty nine percent on the March figures.

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Speaker 1: The figures, he says, confirms that the Territory is on

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Speaker 1: track to record one of the worst years on record

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Speaker 1: for the construction of new private sector dwellings. What do

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Speaker 1: you think that these figures say about the state of

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Speaker 1: the economy.

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Speaker 2: Well, our economy is going backwards, Katie, there's no two

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Speaker 2: ways about it.

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Speaker 1: The Chief Minister says, it's not. The Chief Minister reckons

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Speaker 1: things are going well.

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Speaker 2: She lives in an alternative universe. To everyone else in

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Speaker 2: the territory. In her universe, the place is safe and

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Speaker 2: the economy is doing well. And in the real world

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Speaker 2: where Territorians live, crime is out of control and our

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Speaker 2: economy is going backwards. For five and a half years,

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Speaker 2: CONSECT have ranked the territory the worst performing economy in

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Speaker 2: the nation. Last year alone, we only built one hundred

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Speaker 2: and forty four first homes, and of course we are

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Speaker 2: on track. The territory is on track to have the

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Speaker 2: lowest building approvals since records began decades ago. So things

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Speaker 2: are really bad. But that's why the colp's policy around

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Speaker 2: home builder is so important. We recognize that cost of

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Speaker 2: living is making it harder for people to have entry

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Speaker 2: into the housing market, and by giving people a home,

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Speaker 2: we secure people to stay in the territory and we

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Speaker 2: can attract people to come. So by giving first home

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Speaker 2: builders fifty thousand dollars to build their home in the territory,

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Speaker 2: we know that that is going to leverage long term opportunities.

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Speaker 2: We also want to make sure that people looking to

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Speaker 2: write size or downsize has that opportunity to add new

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Speaker 2: housing stock to the market. By building a home with

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Speaker 2: a thirty thousand dollars grant, which means they're old family

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Speaker 2: home can be re passed on to a new family

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Speaker 2: who really needs it. And this is the type of

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Speaker 2: stimulus and confidence that people in the private sector need

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Speaker 2: to get construction moving to get new houses and grow

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Speaker 2: our population.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, it's certainly something that Ben Carter from Master

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Speaker 1: Builders said that they are keen to see happen. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't a commitment that the Northern Territory Chief Minister was

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Speaker 1: prepared to make. Yesterday, she said that they've got a

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Speaker 1: housing alliance that's looking into various different things that they

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Speaker 1: could be doing down the track in the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: or certainly over the coming weeks and months. But Lea,

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Speaker 1: I do want to just move along a couple of

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Speaker 1: quick questions. There's one here. We spoke extensively last week

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Speaker 1: about the relocation of Saint Vinnie's to Coconut Grove.

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Speaker 3: Does the c Orp support that move?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's done. It's not about whether we support it.

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Speaker 2: The issue has been that Mark Monahan promised people in

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Speaker 2: Stuart Park last election that he would move it and

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Speaker 2: then what you've had is him failed to deliver that

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Speaker 2: election commitment. Because Eva Laula as Infrastructure Minister, could not

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Speaker 2: find an alternative location.

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Speaker 3: Where would you like? Where? Where do you reckon?

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Speaker 1: Though?

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Speaker 3: Can move?

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Speaker 1: Because this is I suppose the difficult thing is that

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Speaker 1: Saint Hinis had said to me on the show last week.

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Speaker 1: They've been in negotiations about this for more than three years,

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Speaker 1: They've had more than one hundred meetings.

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Speaker 3: But where do you move it?

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Speaker 1: Because literally every community, every suburb is going to go, oh,

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Speaker 1: hang on a second, I'm not sure that I want

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Speaker 1: that in my suburb.

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Speaker 2: Well, the reality is, as Infrastructure Minister Eva Laula could

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Speaker 2: have found an alternative location. I think the community agrees

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Speaker 2: they want to have homeless services. Of course is concerning

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Speaker 2: where they go. But what we've got is a fight

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Speaker 2: between labor members around trying to deliver an election promise.

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Speaker 2: And so now you've got a war between here. You've

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Speaker 2: got Eva and Mark Monahan on one side, You've got

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Speaker 2: an Atasha Bars and Brent Potter on the other. They

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Speaker 2: don't want it in their electorates and it just dowshed

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Speaker 2: to try and save base and deliver a promise they

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Speaker 2: made four years ago that they've failed on. And poor

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Speaker 2: Saint Vinie's have been caught up in the middle of that, Katie.

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Speaker 2: So this is a MESSI of Labour's own making. If

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Speaker 2: we win in August, we will work closely with Saint

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Speaker 2: Vinnie's to look at alternative sights that meet community expectation

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Speaker 2: and allow Saint Vinnie's to deliver important homeless services, which

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Speaker 2: Territory and degree are very important guests.

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Speaker 1: To play devil's advocate here, surely that's what the government's

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Speaker 1: been trying to do. But I know that even one

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Speaker 1: of the locations that that sort of flagged last week

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Speaker 1: are the COLP candidate Briano Gallagher had contacted us very

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Speaker 1: quickly and said, Katie, if they try to put it

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Speaker 1: there in the Kurama electorate, I will start a petition

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Speaker 1: myself to stop that from happening.

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Speaker 3: So that's what I mean. We're literally every location people are.

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Speaker 1: Going to sort of be going hang on a sick

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Speaker 1: I don't want those services in my backyard.

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Speaker 3: So it is a tough it's a tough thing to

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Speaker 3: try and work through.

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Speaker 2: I think this is a government who again has just

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Speaker 2: dropped the ball, Katie. They can't deliver on their promises,

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Speaker 2: they don't have a plan and they're not able to

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Speaker 2: do the bay sticks, let alone something complicated. So this

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Speaker 2: is just again about them. It doesn't take four years

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Speaker 2: to find a block of lamb Katie. I don't think

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Speaker 2: any of your listeners would believe that it's about making

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Speaker 2: sure that you're doing the work of basic work of government.

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Speaker 2: And just like failing to build new prisons, this government

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Speaker 2: has foud to deliver its election commitments.

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Speaker 3: Clear A couple of quick A couple of quick listener questions.

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Speaker 1: Could one from Matt in the CBD Ktie, can you

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Speaker 1: please ask Lea how knocking down the units would have

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Speaker 1: any effect on domestic violence?

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Speaker 2: Well, when you're when you're knocking down units, I don't

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Speaker 2: know which units you're talking.

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Speaker 3: About, the ones that we've spoken about earlier this morning.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just speaking generally, you know the density that then

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Speaker 2: causes antisocial behavior and crime. So it's about nowadays when

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Speaker 2: they're building new housing estates, there's a different way in

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Speaker 2: which you deliver social and territory housing and Shear Streets

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Speaker 2: Flat for example, was knocked down because again it was

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Speaker 2: a hot spot for crime, an agy social behavior. So

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Speaker 2: the idea is that it is preventative that you don't

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Speaker 2: have crimes taking place in the first tie.

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Speaker 1: Well, another listener question with the Johnson candidate, do you

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Speaker 1: support the party's pre selection of Gary Strawn given the

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Speaker 1: fact that he didn't preference the CLP at the last election.

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Speaker 2: Gary is a fantastic candidate out in Johnston and we've

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Speaker 2: had overwhelming response to his pre selection. He is out

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Speaker 2: on the ground talking that community about what's important to

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Speaker 2: them and we're really excited all of our candidates that

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Speaker 2: we have such a strong team.

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Speaker 1: So, I mean, like, the fact is though he didn't

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Speaker 1: actually he preferenced Labor over the CLP before the last

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory election, so rather than preferencing Toby George, he

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Speaker 1: preferenced Paul Kirby.

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Speaker 3: Is that a concern for you in any way?

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Speaker 2: No, those types of decisions around preferences are made by

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Speaker 2: the partner.

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Speaker 1: I know it wasn't with Territory Alliance last time around

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Speaker 1: the election. Each individual all got to make that decision themselves.

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Speaker 1: And at the time there was a report written by

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Speaker 1: a recond was Matt Cunningham that I'd read out a

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago that he'd actually said that he'd

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Speaker 1: changed his preferences where he wasn't supporting the COLP due

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Speaker 1: to the stance on fracking.

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Speaker 2: Look he's been Gary has been really clear that he's

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Speaker 2: always supported a well regulated on your gas industry. Again,

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Speaker 2: that was the decision of Territory Alliance. But you know,

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Speaker 2: the past is the past, Katie, and the future is

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Speaker 2: exciting and that's what the CLP's focused on. Gary joined

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Speaker 2: a strong seal P, so you're happy.

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Speaker 1: You're happy with him as the candidate for Johnson, even

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Speaker 1: though he's been quoted in previous stories saying that he

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Speaker 1: doesn't support the gas industry or doesn't.

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Speaker 2: Support they did. Business owner who has worked for decades

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Speaker 2: with disadvantage use and trying to get young people into

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Speaker 2: traineeships and apprenticeships. He understands very keenly how important it

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Speaker 2: is to grow our economy and what we need to

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Speaker 2: do to address the root causes of crime. We joined

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Speaker 2: the strong, diverse CLP team and we're proud to have you.

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Speaker 1: Leah. Good to speak with you this morning. Appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: I'll let you get into that meeting. Thank you very

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Speaker 1: much for having a chat.

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Speaker 3: With us this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, take care everyone.

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Speaker 3: Thank you