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Speaker 1: I'm joined in the studio.

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Speaker 2: I do just want to there's been concerns raised about

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Speaker 2: the removal of counselors from senior schools in Darwin, with

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Speaker 2: a new model set to see them operate out of

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Speaker 2: the Mitchell Center. Now it could actually see teachers having

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Speaker 2: to step in to provide mental health support to students.

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Speaker 2: And I think that it's pretty safe to say that

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Speaker 2: a lot of people would be quite concerned about that,

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Speaker 2: given the fact that our teachers already do an enormous job.

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Speaker 2: But we've got to make sure that our students do

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Speaker 2: have the support that is required. Now, joining me in

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Speaker 2: the studio this morning is Tabby Fudge too many of

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Speaker 2: you will know NT Cogso's chair will actually the president.

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Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Tabby.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie, and good morning to your listeners.

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Speaker 2: And also joining me in the studio this morning is

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Speaker 2: the captains from the Casuarina Senior College.

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Speaker 1: Now let me make sure I've got your names correct.

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Speaker 2: Catherine and Kesha, Good morning to you both. Thank you

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Speaker 2: so much for coming in this morning and taking that

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Speaker 2: time away from school to come in and have a

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Speaker 2: chat with us. Now I might ask first, why are

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Speaker 2: the school counselors so important.

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Speaker 4: Having a school beased counselors makes mental health services accessible

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Speaker 4: to all students and takes the pressure off of teachers

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Speaker 4: who are already doing so much for us. I mean,

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Speaker 4: we know about that pe freeze, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: They do so much.

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Speaker 2: I think we all anybody who's either got children at

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Speaker 2: school or who is a student like yourselves at school

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Speaker 2: knows just how hard the teachers work. And a lot

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Speaker 2: of that work, you know, is all about supporting you, guys, supporting.

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Speaker 1: Students and teaching you and educating you at the same time.

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Speaker 2: Now, now there are concerns that these school counselors are

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Speaker 2: going to be removed from schools tabby and that it's

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Speaker 2: going to be sort of a universal system by the

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Speaker 2: sounds of it, where they're going to be operating out

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Speaker 2: of the Mitchell Center.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell me how that's going to work.

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Speaker 3: Well, quite simply, it's not going to work. They're trying

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Speaker 3: to implement a triage system where they have all of

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Speaker 3: the counselors centrally located in the Mitchell Street Center, so

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Speaker 3: we will not be seeing counselors in schools where they

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Speaker 3: should be, so they are accessible to our students so

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Speaker 3: they can make that really vital difference to the social

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Speaker 3: and emotional well being of our students. They're trying to

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Speaker 3: implement a triange system, and what that means is somebody

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Speaker 3: from the school will have to contact somebody within the

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Speaker 3: Mitchell Street Center. Then that person in the Mitchell Street

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Speaker 3: Center will determine as to whether or not that child

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Speaker 3: or student is eligible for counseling. They're going to make

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Speaker 3: that decision, and then who knows when that student will

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Speaker 3: have access to a counselor You know, what is the

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Speaker 3: ridiculous thing about this is when somebody is asking for help,

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Speaker 3: they need it now, They need it now, and then

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Speaker 3: they don't need it in a week or two time,

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Speaker 3: and they definitely don't need somebody who doesn't even know

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Speaker 3: them to be making that decision as to whether or

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Speaker 3: not they actually require the service.

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Speaker 2: Now, ladies, tell me from your at school, you know,

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Speaker 2: from what Tabby is saying there, it's incredibly important that

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Speaker 2: when you need that support, that you're able to get

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Speaker 2: it immediately. Can you talk me through why that is

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Speaker 2: so important at school?

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Speaker 4: Well, honestly, it's really important to be having building on

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Speaker 4: relationship consistently with this school counselor and now we'll make

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Speaker 4: a lot of changes within the student if they need

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Speaker 4: the help right now.

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Speaker 2: How would it be if you were, you know, if

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Speaker 2: you were having to go to the school tell them

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Speaker 2: that you need that support, and then a counselor is

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Speaker 2: having to sort of be drawn in from from somewhere

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Speaker 2: else to come into the school and provide that help.

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Speaker 4: Honestly, Katie, it's unacceptable. It's putting a third party in

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Speaker 4: place where it should just be between the student and

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Speaker 4: the school counselor. Really, if they don't have the timeframe

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Speaker 4: to form that connection and we're having to delay the

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Speaker 4: provision of help, I don't understand any benefit to this model,

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Speaker 4: implementing this model for the school community, for parents, for teachers.

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Speaker 4: There are so many people who are affected, and this

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Speaker 4: lack of consultation between us and the people behind this

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Speaker 4: model just exhibits the lack of respect they have towards us.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what, it's such a good point that

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Speaker 2: you make, You know, when you're in a situation where

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Speaker 2: you do need that assistance, having to have a third

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Speaker 2: party there that you're having to liaise with to try

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Speaker 2: to then speak to a counselor.

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Speaker 1: It seems crazy.

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Speaker 3: It's absolutely nonsensical, and it flies in the face of

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Speaker 3: all the data, all the inquiries and center inquiries into

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Speaker 3: youth mental health and well being. There is nothing at

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Speaker 3: all data or evidence based about this. You know, when

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Speaker 3: we look at you know, the Little Children as Sacred reports.

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Speaker 3: You know, when we looked at the you know, the

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Speaker 3: inquiries that were done at the Department of Education right

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Speaker 3: here in the Northern Territory. You know, ten years ago,

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Speaker 3: it showed that we had to increase our number of counselors.

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, back then in the early two thousand,

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Speaker 3: we had nineteen counselors and it was determined that we

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Speaker 3: needed to increase that number. You know, at the moment,

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Speaker 3: I think we've got a really low number of councils.

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Speaker 3: I think we've probably got a handful of here. I

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Speaker 3: think there's only about three counselors in the Darwin region

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Speaker 3: and there's over ten thousand students in the Darwin region.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's twenty four schools. When you consider that

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Speaker 3: there's middle high schools and of course there's primary schools. Well,

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Speaker 3: this is not just a middle or high school issue.

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Speaker 3: This is across the board. We need counselors in every

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Speaker 3: single school, and for the Department of Education to be

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Speaker 3: removing these counselors under the smoke screen of a triange

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Speaker 3: system just speaks to exactly how out of touch they

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Speaker 3: are with what is actually happening on the ground in

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Speaker 3: our schools and how they just have no idea of

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Speaker 3: the need out there, of the context out there. And

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Speaker 3: this decision is one of the most nonsensical decisions I

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Speaker 3: have seen in all of my years of volunteering with

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Speaker 3: Cogso I cannot believe it. I'm just I'm absolutely gobsmacked

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Speaker 3: at this decision. And to be honest with you, yep,

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Speaker 3: you know that the cynical pessimist in me would say

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Speaker 3: it's actually a way of not addressing that recruitment and

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Speaker 3: retaining of counselors in the Department of It is an issue.

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Speaker 3: You know, if we can't see an absent school counselor

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Speaker 3: in a school, you know, if they're not based in

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Speaker 3: a school, we don't know about it. And I think

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Speaker 3: that's a big part of the problem here.

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Speaker 2: And the thing is, though, you guys and the students

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Speaker 2: at the school can really feel it when the counselor

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Speaker 2: is not there, can't you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And we just don't understand how death might have

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Speaker 4: improved such endpointant within the students.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and well being is like, it is such an

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Speaker 2: important part of your education and of growing up, isn't it.

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Speaker 4: Especially in today's social climate. I do recall the EEU

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Speaker 4: and T they said that mental well being is not

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Speaker 4: an additional or optional add on to education. It is

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Speaker 4: the core of one. And I feel like that really

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Speaker 4: resonates with me as a senior. Both of me and

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Speaker 4: Katherine are both seniors, and having that on site support

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Speaker 4: is very important for us. I feel like this model

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Speaker 4: also assumes that everyone has such a welcoming and strong

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Speaker 4: relationship with their parents are guardians, and that's.

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Speaker 3: Just not the case.

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Speaker 4: A lot of students just need that third party to

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Speaker 4: speak to, just a person who's qualified. Mind you, teachers

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Speaker 4: are not qualified. Just the professional who knows the right

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Speaker 4: things to say when to intervene. Yeah, and teachers like

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Speaker 4: they're ready, They're already handling a lot of things, and

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Speaker 4: we just don't want to add on to that.

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Speaker 2: Now, Tabby, can you tell me have you been in

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Speaker 2: contact with the education department? Have you been in contact

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Speaker 2: with the Minister's office. Where is this at because it

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Speaker 2: seems so it's something that's not only important to you know,

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Speaker 2: into cogso, but it's something that's really really important to

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Speaker 2: our students.

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Speaker 1: I've never been in a situation.

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Speaker 2: Before where I've had the school caps come in and

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Speaker 2: speak to me about something that they're so passionate about.

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Speaker 2: It makes me feel really proud thinking that that's the

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Speaker 2: generation that's coming up, that you're speaking up for yourselves

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Speaker 2: when you need to. But like, have you spoken to

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Speaker 2: those decision makers and what are they saying to you

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Speaker 2: at this point?

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Speaker 3: Katie, I'm standing with you right here. I'm so proud

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Speaker 3: of these school captains of Casuarina Senior College. I am

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Speaker 3: so so proud of you standing up for yourselves and

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Speaker 3: your students across the Northern Territory. You know, it's a

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Speaker 3: very powerful thing that you're doing here, and you're telling

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Speaker 3: those people within the Mitchell Street Center who are making

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Speaker 3: these I don't even have a word for it, this

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Speaker 3: ridiculous decision. Yes, we have spoken with the see of

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Speaker 3: the Department of Education, Karen Western, and she's adamant that

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Speaker 3: a triage model is what we need. Once Again, this

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Speaker 3: speaks to the fact that they're not talking to people

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Speaker 3: on the ground. There's been no consultation with it. Was

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Speaker 3: unaware of it, and I would go as far as

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Speaker 3: to say, I think she'll be pretty shocked when she

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Speaker 3: hears about it, because, as we know, Minister Law, there

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Speaker 3: is a long term territory educator, principal, departmental bureaucrat. She

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Speaker 3: knows about schools, she knows what happens in schools. She's

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Speaker 3: very in touch with what happens in schools, and she

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Speaker 3: will be shocked when she hears about this. It's just

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Speaker 3: it makes no sense and it flies in the face.

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Speaker 3: You know, we hear the retoric all the time of

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Speaker 3: wrap around supports in social and emotional well being and inclusion.

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Speaker 3: You know what, Counselors are a massive part of this,

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Speaker 3: and they need to be in our schools every day.

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Speaker 3: They need to be a familiar face, they need to

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Speaker 3: be accessible, they need to be able to develop relationships

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Speaker 3: with the student cohort at whatever school they're in, and

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Speaker 3: they cannot do that from the Mitchell Street Center. And

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Speaker 3: they cannot do that on a part time basis, you know,

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Speaker 3: a couple of hours a week or whatever. It is,

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Speaker 3: which is obviously what's happening at the moment. If we've

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Speaker 3: only got a handful of student counselors across the Darwin

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Speaker 3: region and we've got over ten thousand students, you know,

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Speaker 3: when the Australian Psychologists Association tells us we need a

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Speaker 3: minimum of one counselor per five hundred students, you know

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Speaker 3: it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Kisha and Catherine, can you tell me my understanding is

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Speaker 2: that casualinga Senior college have now started a petition to

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Speaker 2: keep counselors in the schools.

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Speaker 1: How much support is it? Guarded?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 4: Our campaign hashtag keep our Counselors to all your listeners

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Speaker 4: out there, follow us on at CCSLT. We have garnered

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Speaker 4: over five hundred signatures in just a week. We have

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Speaker 4: the support of other government schools. Yep, we will not

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Speaker 4: name because you'll see the impact that we make together

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Speaker 4: in this collaboration that we formed, and we know that

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Speaker 4: a lot of members of the wider community are very

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Speaker 4: enraged by this model and that they're doing their bit

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Speaker 4: to help us in this campaign.

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Speaker 2: Good on you both for having your voices heard, for

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Speaker 2: standing up and standing up on something that is really,

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Speaker 2: really important. I appreciate you both coming into the studio

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Speaker 2: with me this morning. Tabby, I really appreciate you coming

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Speaker 2: into the studio with me as well, and please keep

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Speaker 2: us up to date with any movement on this, but

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Speaker 2: also keep us up to date and let us know

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Speaker 2: how that petition progresses on. I'd be happy to have

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Speaker 2: you back on the show if you want to to

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Speaker 2: try to, you know, get that support of the other students.

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Speaker 2: I know they're in class right now so not listening

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Speaker 2: to the show, but to help you to to you know,

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Speaker 2: make sure that your cause is heard. I appreciate you

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Speaker 2: all so much coming into the studio today.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having thank you. But just as a

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Speaker 3: last thing, I THP it's sort of you know, it's

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Speaker 3: part of that deterioration of those wrap around services, the

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Speaker 3: retrick that we keep hearing about. You know, school based

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Speaker 3: constables is another thing that has disappeared off the radar.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's been talk about nurses as well, so

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Speaker 3: you know, it's just it's not acceptable. We can't just

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Speaker 3: let it happen, and it cannot happen well.

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Speaker 2: And the thing is that there is nothing more important

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Speaker 2: than the mental health of our kids, of our young people,

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Speaker 2: particularly when you're getting through school, and if you are

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Speaker 2: prepared to speak to somebody who is a counselor rather

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Speaker 2: than going down a scary path or going down another path.

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Speaker 2: It is absolutely something that's required. And if you have

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Speaker 2: got those relationships with a counselor who you're able to

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Speaker 2: see regularly, it makes a massive, massive difference. So I

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Speaker 2: hope that your voices are heard. I do hope that

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Speaker 2: the Department and the Minister are listening and that they

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Speaker 2: have a rethink on this decision.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, Sometimes somebody will only ask for help once and

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Speaker 3: after that it's far too late, and if.

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Speaker 4: They are listening, we would just like to tell them

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Speaker 4: it's not good enough. Hashtag you for counselors.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you all so much for your time

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Speaker 2: this morning.