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Speaker 1: Get a I'm Lala Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter

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Speaker 1: and professional overshaer. This podcast is all about celebrating failure

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Speaker 1: because I believe it's a chance for us to learn,

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Speaker 1: grow and face our blind spots. Each week I'll interview

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Speaker 1: a different guest about their highs as well as they're lows,

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Speaker 1: all in a bid to inspire us to fearlessly fail.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Potter Rooney Candas Fox. Now. Candace

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Speaker 1: is Australia's best selling crime fiction author and if you

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Speaker 1: ask me, she's a bit of a legend. She's been

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Speaker 1: on the pod before. So if you want to go

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Speaker 1: back and listen to her first chat on flously Failing,

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Speaker 1: it's episode one hundred and five. This chat we had

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Speaker 1: a couple of months ago in Sydney. Candace is all heart.

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Speaker 1: She's written a mazillion books. Literally, the books are also

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Speaker 1: absolute Paige Schurners and I say this with my hand

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Speaker 1: on my heart. Until I booked Candace Fox to come

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Speaker 1: on the pod the first time, I'd never read crime

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Speaker 1: fiction ever before, and Candace, you got me hooked. So

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Speaker 1: the reason why we got to chat again in Sydney

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Speaker 1: is because I'm just a fangirl like, to be really

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Speaker 1: honest with you, She's got so many great books out there.

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Speaker 1: And living in La I randomly ran into someone from

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Speaker 1: Apple whilst working in a yoga studio and they said

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Speaker 1: to me, you wouldn't know Candace Fox, would you by chance?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, yes, actually I would know Candace Fox.

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Speaker 2: Anyway. Cut a long story short.

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Speaker 1: Candace Fox has written this incredible book that we talk

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Speaker 1: about on today's pod called high Wire. Apple has got

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Speaker 1: the rights to this book and Ridley Scott, yes you

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Speaker 1: heard that right, Ridley Scott has signed on as a

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Speaker 1: producer of this incredible TV show with Apple. Now we're

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Speaker 1: talking Gladiator Aliens the release Scott. So, Candace, you are incredible.

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Speaker 1: You're also insanely humble and just an all round legend.

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Speaker 1: So to you the listener, I hope you love this chat.

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Speaker 1: Candace is absolutely wonderful. If you are a writer, if

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Speaker 1: you're a creative, if you've got any kind of a dream,

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Speaker 1: this episode is for you. Candace never gave up when

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Speaker 1: she got rejection letters at the very start of her career,

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Speaker 1: and now she is literally one of Australia's most celebrated authors.

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Speaker 1: So enjoy the wonderful Candace Fox. Candace Fox, Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to the pod, my friend.

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Speaker 2: I'm so happy to be here. I've been waiting for this.

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Speaker 1: I honestly I so First of all of the listener,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to say, Australia's most successful and kindest, nicest,

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Speaker 1: bestest crime fiction author, welcome to the Pod. Award winning

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Speaker 1: New York Times bestselling absolute legend have an author.

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Speaker 2: I'll take that as an introduction. I like that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's probably not the US, but I'm going

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Speaker 1: to make that my official bio from now. Honestly, honestly,

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Speaker 1: I I think of you so often because I live

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Speaker 1: in la as you know, and if I ever walk

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Speaker 1: into like an amazing books because I feel like Americans

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Speaker 1: are obsessed with crime.

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Speaker 2: Yeah they should be everywhere.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, a lot.

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Speaker 2: Comes out of there, right they do? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Do you know.

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Speaker 2: I've got a friend.

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Speaker 1: I live close to the Hollywood Hills and he's like,

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Speaker 1: he lives in Brentwood and he's like, I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to visit you.

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Speaker 2: And I was like why and he's like murder.

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Speaker 1: Like He's like all the dark shit happens towards there.

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Speaker 1: And then I researched and took you would love this.

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Speaker 1: I took a psychic around with me to murder sites.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah in.

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Speaker 1: LA and they're all that way. They're like Glen Dale

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Speaker 1: and Los Feelers. There's like murder mansions where people.

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Speaker 2: Go like, you can do the tour. You can do

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Speaker 2: the bus tour. Let's go from spot to but yeah,

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Speaker 2: go to you know, the Charles Manson ranch, go to

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Speaker 2: the house there. You can do the OJ Simpson thing.

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Speaker 2: You can go all the different places and you just

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Speaker 2: get on a bus and it's the there's also a

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Speaker 2: murder museum there. Have you done all this? Oh? Of course,

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Speaker 2: of course. I think I did most of it on

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Speaker 2: my honeymoon. And yeah, I love how crime in LA

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Speaker 2: is because it's the beautiful. It's the amazing opulence of

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Speaker 2: people's houses and the extreme wealth, you know. And then

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Speaker 2: next right next door to that is extreme posit, poverty

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Speaker 2: and crime and people are lying in the streets. And

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Speaker 2: when I moved to LA for a year, I said

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Speaker 2: to my husband, I want to do three things. I

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Speaker 2: want to call nine one one and I want to

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Speaker 2: yeah yeah, and I want to be part in a

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Speaker 2: separate incident. I want to be part of a crowd

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Speaker 2: and something happens and I go somebody gone nine one one,

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Speaker 2: And then I want to be pulled over by a

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Speaker 2: highway sheriff and I want to roll the window down

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Speaker 2: and I want to say what seems to be the

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Speaker 2: problem officer. And I had done all three of those

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Speaker 2: things in the first six months, and I was like,

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Speaker 2: I need new life goals. So what you call nine

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Speaker 2: on one for? So we were driving through la we

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Speaker 2: lived in Hollywood Hills as well for a bit. We're

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Speaker 2: just driving through LA's this a Sunday afternoon and we

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Speaker 2: come up to this intersection and there was a homeless

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Speaker 2: woman in the middle of the intersection and she had

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Speaker 2: two hammers and she was just swinging them at cars.

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Speaker 2: As we drove past it.

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Speaker 1: You're like, we have machety guy on the corner of

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Speaker 1: our street.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right out with Well, I called nine one one

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Speaker 2: and I was like, this is what I'm seeing, this

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Speaker 2: is what's happening. And she said, oh, has she actually

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Speaker 2: hurt anyone yet? And I said no, but I feel

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Speaker 2: like that's in our near future. She's swinging two hammers

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Speaker 2: in the middle of an intersection and the operator goes, oh,

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Speaker 2: I'll send a car like.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, so nonchalant.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. She was like, we've got a mass shooting over here,

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Speaker 2: we got a bus rolled over, we got a hostage situation.

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Speaker 2: You're worried about some chick with hammers, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like La would be a field

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Speaker 1: day for you, like in the mount like in the

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Speaker 1: time that I like, I'll be driving in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the day in like West La, which is like

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Speaker 1: really pretty affluent, and I've seen like people held at

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Speaker 1: gunpoint at the back of their head, like midday.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, out of Ralphs, just after breakfast. It is, everyone's

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Speaker 2: had their breakfast and they're like, let's cram it up,

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Speaker 2: field up, let's go and rub a place. Yeah yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And it's it's a beautiful city. So it's right on

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Speaker 2: the water and it's beautiful one day perfectly, next it's

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Speaker 2: trying to be Queensland, and then yeah, there are people

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Speaker 2: running and I loved it. I loved it. I would

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Speaker 2: move there in a heartbeat. People say to me, why

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Speaker 2: do you love La. I'm like, because it's just everything

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Speaker 2: and in the hills living up there. I was making

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Speaker 2: one morning and I look out my window and there's

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Speaker 2: a coyote across the street waiting to cross the street.

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Speaker 2: He was like waiting for the cars to get past.

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Speaker 2: All right, tick tic tick, and he goes wandering across

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Speaker 2: the street. I'm like, there's a wild coyote outside.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you get very used to seeing wild coyote

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Speaker 1: and raccoons.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and there up there in the Have you.

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Speaker 1: Seen any rattle snakes yet? No, I've seen five.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow. Yeah, I'm a hiker.

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Speaker 1: Ah like the rattler's scare me because they've got different

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Speaker 1: types of poison that are real bad.

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Speaker 2: What they're the three nasty part.

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Speaker 1: Oh you would know this.

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Speaker 2: You rescue animals, I do. I love you know what

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Speaker 2: I've got at the moment home because I bring home

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Speaker 2: all the babies because my daughter Violet is five, So

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Speaker 2: whenever I see baby something or other, I go, all right,

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Speaker 2: I'll care for that for a while. And I brought

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Speaker 2: home this Eastern long neck turtle because the notes said,

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Speaker 2: you know, has been found in an apartment complex. No

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Speaker 2: one knows who it belongs to, so it's been brought

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Speaker 2: into a vet and it's as big as a two

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Speaker 2: dollar coin. It is the it's like a pokemon. What

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Speaker 2: does it eat? You know what, it's getting the best

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Speaker 2: food ever at my house. It's eating barramunday. I got

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Speaker 2: a slice of frozen barrel munday and every day I

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Speaker 2: chop up like a quarter of a teaspoons worth. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I put it in. But this thing is swimming

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Speaker 2: around living it. Let's live it its best life. I'm

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Speaker 2: just gonna raise it up until it's big enough so

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Speaker 2: that when I put it back into the wild, a

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Speaker 2: bird doesn't just yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's got a little bit of a shell and everything.

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Speaker 2: But Violet calls everything Annabelle. So no matter like we

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Speaker 2: we rescue roosters or we bring home like a go anna.

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Speaker 2: And I said, what are you going to call? It?

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Speaker 2: Is annabel And then she then she'll go, do you

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Speaker 2: remember when we had Annabelle. I'm like, what which Annabelle?

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Speaker 2: The male peaking duck Annabelle, or the rooster Annabelle, or

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Speaker 2: the goanna Annabelle or the turtle abel Which Annabelle? I

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Speaker 2: wanted to call it two buck because it's only as

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Speaker 2: big as but she said, no, it's Anabelle. You're gonna laugh.

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Speaker 1: My dad's a vets, So we would he would bring

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Speaker 1: home animals and I would name them all Bambi or Thumper,

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Speaker 1: all of them, all of them guinea pigs, dogs, cats,

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Speaker 1: They were either Bambi or Thumber.

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Speaker 2: How funny. I love the attitude. It's like I found

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Speaker 2: a good name. Stick with it. Yeah, yeap, just ride

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Speaker 2: that horse right into the ground. Yeah really commit? Yeah? Commit?

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Speaker 1: Okay, friend, what book are you up to now?

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Speaker 2: I'm not even gonna bother.

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Speaker 1: I started watching recent interviews and I was like, I

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Speaker 1: think just on twenty two. And then you're telling you

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Speaker 1: about a new book now, and I'm like, I think.

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Speaker 2: That the one I'm working on right now is twenty two,

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Speaker 2: because actually last year I wrote half of a book. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and then I threw it away. I just said, no,

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Speaker 2: this sucks. I didn't like it. No, I didn't like it.

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Speaker 2: Spent six months on it, wrote forty thousand words, and

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Speaker 2: I went, nu, what did you like it? The bin

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Speaker 2: it was said on a cruise ship. It was halfway.

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Speaker 2: It was a cruise ship and it was a fishing boat.

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Speaker 2: So these two people fall off a cruise ship and

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Speaker 2: a few boat picks them up and they're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: thank god, we're saved. And then the fishing boat people

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Speaker 2: are like oh yeah, No, we're having engine trouble and

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Speaker 2: we can't get any calms. And then the two people

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Speaker 2: start going vibes. Are we Was this all a setup?

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Speaker 2: Like yeah, are we hostages? And then everyone on the

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Speaker 2: cruise ship is like where are they? You know? So

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Speaker 2: it was a good concept, but it was probably a

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Speaker 2: good concept for a small show, but not a novel,

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Speaker 2: like it's ninety thousand words?

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Speaker 1: Did you research sharks? I would have been I would

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Speaker 1: have been like feeding people.

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Speaker 2: Yes, probably the stuff that I end up googling. I

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Speaker 2: love your brain.

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Speaker 1: This is why I love I was like, we could

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Speaker 1: go down so many rabbit holes, my friend obviously, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I actually so, I've got so many questions.

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Speaker 2: First of all, okay, I have I think I said

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Speaker 2: this is when you came in. I reckon. I've read

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Speaker 2: eight or nine of your books. I'm a proper fan

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Speaker 2: fan you fangirl. Yeah, I've got a peece for you

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Speaker 2: to sign.

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Speaker 1: These copies I'm holding in my hand after But I

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Speaker 1: finished high Wire in the wee hours of the morning today.

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Speaker 1: Oh good, And I must say reading high Wire driving

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Speaker 1: from Byron Bay to Sydney because of the setting, I

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Speaker 1: was like, have I picked the right setting to read

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Speaker 1: where I could fully imagine this happening to myself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. And then it's a good road

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Speaker 2: trip book.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's such a good road trip book. And then

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Speaker 1: I read Two Sisters Murder Investigations. Yeah, Holy Matt, Well

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Speaker 1: that's all la so you would have loved that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, bit of Glendale. Oh, I was like, holy Matt,

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Speaker 2: she knows all the spots. Yeah, I know the good cafes.

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Speaker 1: And this is where I'm going to ask you some

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Speaker 1: nerdy author stuff.

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Speaker 2: Do it?

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Speaker 1: Is it hard because you write from different characters pov

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Speaker 1: so for listener point of view, so it's not always

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Speaker 1: through one person?

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Speaker 2: Yes? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Maybe When I read Crimson Lake, is that one person's

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Speaker 1: point of views at both of them?

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Speaker 2: No, it's not, no, because it's you get ted his

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Speaker 2: first person, and then you get flashbacks, which I think

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Speaker 2: a third person, and then you get the perspective. Don't

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Speaker 2: you get the killer's perspective or something in that? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I think you. Yeah, God, that's a long time ago.

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Speaker 2: It's a good though. I always I always did more

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Speaker 2: than one character's perspective because I get bored OF's one person. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Is it hard to like be like, or do you

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Speaker 1: like when you're right? Do you like have to like

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Speaker 1: color courts?

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Speaker 2: Are you like?

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Speaker 1: All right, there's that person.

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Speaker 2: It's such an ocd P. A lot of people are

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Speaker 2: a lot of writers are I just went to a

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Speaker 2: two men writers retreat with a friend of mine, Anna Down's,

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Speaker 2: and she had her little beautiful post it notes and

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Speaker 2: her journals and all of this paraphernalia talking my language, yeah,

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Speaker 2: spread out in front of her, which is funny. And

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Speaker 2: then she just sat and she wrote and she worked,

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Speaker 2: and she said, you are so funny to watch, Candice,

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Speaker 2: because I would be there and I'll do a big

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Speaker 2: spurt of writing and she looks like, and I'm gone,

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Speaker 2: and I'm out there and I'm just being like Mofusser,

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Speaker 2: I'm just looking at the horizon, you know, And then

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Speaker 2: more hammering of the keys, and then she hears me,

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Speaker 2: and you know, because it was my holiday house and

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Speaker 2: I'm standing a wall and painting it and then more

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Speaker 2: hammering of the keys, and it's just totally different people. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but no, when I go from one character to another,

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Speaker 2: I feel like more like I'm sitting in their body

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Speaker 2: and I'm being them. So at the moment it's these

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Speaker 2: two guys, Russell and Evan, And when I'm Russell, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: because he's quite an angry guy, and Evan is more

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Speaker 2: like sort of weak and emotional and like he's he's

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Speaker 2: having a really hard time, so he's like, what am

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Speaker 2: I going to do? You know? And so I'm I'm

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Speaker 2: being this guy, and then I'm being this guy, and

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Speaker 2: I'm being this guy. It's more of a Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: like a suit that I wear. Do you hear a

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Speaker 2: voice in your head? Like?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because your voice just changed quite dramatically.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. He's ultra Russell is ultramat skill and angry and skeptical,

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Speaker 2: and he's always slicing people up and people are afraid

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Speaker 2: of him.

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Speaker 1: He's a killer.

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Speaker 2: No, No, he's the hero. Oh I love an antie villain.

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Speaker 2: You're different. That's why I'm enjoying writing him so much,

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Speaker 2: because he's a very different kind of hero. He's hard

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Speaker 2: to get on with and people are afraid of him.

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Speaker 2: So I'm really enjoying those moments where he's not at work,

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Speaker 2: he's with his daughter and you get to see he's

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Speaker 2: just like he loves her and she doesn't put up

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Speaker 2: with any of his crap and you know, and then

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Speaker 2: he goes back to work and he's like, why didn't

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Speaker 2: you do that? So fun? But yeah, it's kind of

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Speaker 2: a secret. It's a secret that I'm sharing with the reader,

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Speaker 2: which says, you know, you know that he has these

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Speaker 2: two different sides, but nobody else knows. So hopefully people

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Speaker 2: will enjoy that, you know. But yeah, yeah, that's the

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Speaker 2: book I'm running right now. So that's not out for years,

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Speaker 2: So everybody forget about that. Did you say it's based

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Speaker 2: on true crime? It is? Do you want to hear

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Speaker 2: this story?

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Speaker 1: This?

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Speaker 2: Sign me up. This is the wildest story ever, and

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Speaker 2: I haven't started telling it yet, so you'll be the

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Speaker 2: first people to hear it. So what happened was everybody

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Speaker 2: knows I have quite an eccentric mother, right, long story short.

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Speaker 2: She name changed right yeah, yeah, ocean mermaid, that's right. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and she fostered one hundred and fifty five kids while

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Speaker 2: I was growing up. She's kind of a hoarder, all

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Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. So she when I was a kid,

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Speaker 2: I was maybe ten, she was leaving me at home

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Speaker 2: alone for the first time ever, right, and she said,

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Speaker 2: you know, whatever you do, don't open the door because

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Speaker 2: when I was a kid, I was home alone once

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Speaker 2: I opened the door on a guy and ended up

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Speaker 2: being a killer. What yeah, legit, yeah, legit and sos.

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Speaker 2: As a ten year old, I went, I didn't read

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Speaker 2: much further into it. I went, oh, okay, all right,

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Speaker 2: I will yeah, I imagine that's what it sounded like

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Speaker 2: when I was ten. Okay, little American, Okay, mom. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: so I'm an adult now, you know. And Violet was

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Speaker 2: one and a half years old, and she's running around

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Speaker 2: the house in a She's just wearing a nappy and

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Speaker 2: a top hat, and she had a little briefcase and

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Speaker 2: running around and I said to Tim, she looks like

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Speaker 2: a little daughter door salesman. And I thought to myself,

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Speaker 2: like a drawer. It was like a drawer popped open

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Speaker 2: in my brain. And I said, my mum told me

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Speaker 2: a story when I was a kid about a daughter

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Speaker 2: door salesman coming to the door when she was a

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Speaker 2: kid and she was home alone and shaping the door,

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Speaker 2: and he ended up being a killer. And Tim was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that sounds that's on brandy, and he just went back

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Speaker 2: to his crossword. He had no further questions because he

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00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,240
Speaker 2: was late that sounds right. I called her up and

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Speaker 2: I said, I have this story that just came up

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Speaker 2: in my brain that you told me when I was

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Speaker 2: a kid. Was that just bullshit? Like yeah, you know?

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Speaker 2: And she goes, no, No, I was seventeen. I was

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Speaker 2: studying for my HC. I was home alone. A guy

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Speaker 2: knocks on the door and he says, h, I am

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Speaker 2: an encyclopedia salesman. I'm going door to door selling encyclopedia.

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Speaker 2: Can I come in and talk to you about them?

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Speaker 2: And she was like she had the wooden door open

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Speaker 2: and the screen door locked, and she she said, all

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Speaker 2: the hairs on my body stood on end. She said.

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Speaker 2: She thought to herself, why isn't he carrying anything? Like

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Speaker 2: he doesn't have a briefcase, he doesn't have pamphlets, he

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Speaker 2: doesn't have encyclopedia. And he was just dressed like casually,

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Speaker 2: like you know, let me and my bow host. He

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Speaker 2: was also wearing a bahoe. So she goes, oh, you know,

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Speaker 2: I can't really because my dad's here. Hey dad, you know,

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Speaker 2: and pretended her dad was here. She knew something, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: she knew, and then he turned and walked away. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: two women had been murdered in her area one just

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Speaker 2: the week before. So we and that girl went to

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Speaker 2: her school, right, who's a student teacher at her school

357
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Speaker 2: two blocks over and one week earlier, right, And I

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Speaker 2: said to her, okay, I said, what are the names

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Speaker 2: of the victims? And she told me and I said, mum,

360
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Speaker 2: this is unsolved. Oh there's a million dollar cold case.

361
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:11,440
Speaker 2: It's a very famous case in Australia. And I said,

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Speaker 2: did you tell anyone at the time, And she goes, nah, well,

363
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Speaker 2: I really wasn't supposed to open the door and I

364
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Speaker 2: would have got in trouble.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, for God's sake, holy mad Yeah, So.

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Speaker 2: I went down this huge rabbit hole. So there's two women,

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Speaker 2: Lynnette White and Maria Smith. They were murdered in Cujie

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Speaker 2: by this guy who was going door to door. They

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Speaker 2: initially thought it was a guy going door to door

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Speaker 2: because when Lynette was murdered, there was a cup that

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Speaker 2: was smashed, you know, so they're sort of saying, ah,

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Speaker 2: has it come in and asked for a cup of water,

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Speaker 2: you know. And then for Maria it was the same thing.

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Speaker 2: There was a cup smashed and there was some assaults

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Speaker 2: in the area where a guy was going around and

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Speaker 2: sort of talking his way in and saying, oh, I've

377
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Speaker 2: just come to do some work on house next door,

378
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,720
Speaker 2: and he'd look at their mail and get their names

379
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Speaker 2: and say, oh, I just want to leave him a note.

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Speaker 2: Can I have a piece of paper and a pen?

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Speaker 2: And he come in and assault these women and a

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Speaker 2: twelve year old got away from him at the time.

383
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Speaker 2: So it was like, is it the same guys at

384
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Speaker 2: two separate guys? Anyway, long story short, I tried to

385
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 2: get a podcast up, it didn't work, and then I'm

386
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:23,560
Speaker 2: sitting around and I thought, I want to write a

387
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Speaker 2: novel about this. Yeah, but I want to write a

388
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Speaker 2: novel about it and talk about it. I want to

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Speaker 2: talk about these cases and where they came from. But

390
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Speaker 2: I don't want to cause any further pain to these families.

391
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:38,480
Speaker 2: I don't want them to be there. And they hear

392
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,199
Speaker 2: it on the radio and they go, oh thanks, yeah, like,

393
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:43,240
Speaker 2: and you've also you've written a fiction book about it.

394
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,199
Speaker 2: How nice? Yeah? Got it? So I thought, oh, fuck it,

395
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,679
Speaker 2: I'm just going to contact the victims' families. So I

396
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,560
Speaker 2: just wrote to this guy, Paul White, his wife was murdered,

397
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,000
Speaker 2: and I said, you know, I wrote to him and

398
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,479
Speaker 2: I said, can we talk and he I didn't say,

399
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,920
Speaker 2: what about And then he calls me and then I'm like, okay,

400
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:05,679
Speaker 2: so this is what happened, not bl blah blah blah.

401
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:07,040
Speaker 2: And I told him and I said, and I'm writing

402
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:08,479
Speaker 2: a book, and I don't want you to think that

403
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 2: I am making your wife's murder into entertainment. And it's

404
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:13,439
Speaker 2: not going to be like Dexter. You know, it's going

405
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,399
Speaker 2: to be a really thoughtful and soulful thing. And I

406
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,920
Speaker 2: hope to use the promo to bring attention to your

407
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,960
Speaker 2: wife's care. And he was like, I reopen. I think

408
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,520
Speaker 2: that we should have coffee. And I said, okay, let's

409
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,320
Speaker 2: have coffee, you know, and so we did. And so

410
00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,800
Speaker 2: they're fully on board. So I'm going to have the novel.

411
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to have the novel, and I'm going to

412
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,159
Speaker 2: at the end, I'm going to have like an afterward

413
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,320
Speaker 2: which says about the real cases, and hopefully I can

414
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,560
Speaker 2: build awareness back around. Maybe there's someone out there like

415
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,560
Speaker 2: my mum who just never said anything at the time

416
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,240
Speaker 2: and they're like, I know something, I saw something. I

417
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,879
Speaker 2: you know, he came into my house or something, because

418
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 2: that's my talent. My talent is talking to people and

419
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,159
Speaker 2: also writing stories, and those are the two things that

420
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,920
Speaker 2: I can offer. And I went to Maria's family as well,

421
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 2: and I said, is this okay? It was? It was

422
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 2: really scary because I thought, yeah, they could say no, yeah,

423
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 2: and this is not entertaining and we don't want you

424
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,440
Speaker 2: to write a book about it, and like, and how

425
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 2: are they Were they cool? They were cool? Yeah, they

426
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:21,399
Speaker 2: were really cool. They're really cool people.

427
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 1: You know how you were saying when your mum opened

428
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,159
Speaker 1: the door her hair kind of like that feeling of

429
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,879
Speaker 1: like that Spidey sense of like is it true? Because

430
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,359
Speaker 1: I'm asking this because I think you will know the answer,

431
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:37,680
Speaker 1: and you're my crime expert. Yeah, that killers and serial

432
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,399
Speaker 1: killers smell different and so like, because there's a famous

433
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,439
Speaker 1: story about Dolly Parton getting into the back of a

434
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:44,960
Speaker 1: cab that was driven by a serial killer, like back

435
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 1: in the day, and she was like the.

436
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,399
Speaker 2: Smell like his pheromone. The smell was she got straight

437
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 2: out of there. Yeah, wow, I have met a serial killer?

438
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 2: Is this something we spoke about? Yeah, it could be. Yeah,

439
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 2: well I've only I've only met one. Yeah yeah, yeah,

440
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:05,640
Speaker 2: So I didn't find that he smelled different, but he

441
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 2: was a very It was like talking to an alien

442
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,840
Speaker 2: because he just did not understand me or why I

443
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 2: do things. And I was like, I don't understand you

444
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 2: and why you do things, Like you know about the

445
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 2: animal rescue. I was telling him about the animal rescue

446
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,399
Speaker 2: and he was like why, He said, do you know

447
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 2: we have nine hundred? Because I was telling him about

448
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,679
Speaker 2: this gofer that I rescued. He's like, do you know

449
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,880
Speaker 2: that we have nine hundred different types of ticks in America?

450
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,639
Speaker 2: And I was like, yes, but it needed me. It

451
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 2: was this tiny little golfball girl. Yeah, did you rescue

452
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 2: it in La? Yeah? In La? Yeah? Yeah, of course.

453
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 2: I jumped out of a car and I rescued a

454
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 2: pigeon in La. I think there was a couple of

455
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 2: pigeons everywhere I go because you get an eye for it.

456
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 2: You get an eye for that's not right. That animal

457
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 2: needs help, and you can spot it a mile away.

458
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: Do you know out of everybody I've ever interviewed on

459
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 1: this podcast, we're nearly at seven hundred EPs now. The

460
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 1: story that you tell about sitting down with him at

461
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 1: San Quentin, Yeah, I repeat that story.

462
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 2: I'm like, do you.

463
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like, there was nothing between them. No,

464
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 1: it was like being in a shark cage with a tiger.

465
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:11,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

466
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you were like, hang on, what if you

467
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 1: go for my victim?

468
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 2: I said that to him. I can't believe I said that,

469
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 2: because sometimes I just say things yeah, and I go,

470
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 2: what this happens? You know, and people go, why did

471
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 2: you say that? And it might happen now? And the

472
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 2: more nervous I am, the more I.

473
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: And then can you point up to the corner and

474
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: be like, something's got a gun?

475
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 2: Like? Yeah? For you? He was. He was amazed. It

476
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 2: was amazing to have met him and then to hear

477
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 2: and read all the research that we have now about

478
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,400
Speaker 2: psychopaths and narcissists because he was there in the bulletproof

479
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 2: glass cage with me, sitting across from me, looking at

480
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,880
Speaker 2: himself in the reflection of the glass and like doing

481
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,640
Speaker 2: his hair. Yeah. And I'm like, you are a seventy

482
00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 2: seven year old serial killer. I am here to interview

483
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 2: about the young yah, the young women that you murdered.

484
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 2: I'm not here because I need your hair to look

485
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 2: fabulous so that I can be your next girlfriend. That's

486
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 2: not what's happening right now. But in his mind he

487
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 2: was like, that is what's happening, like clearly, I mean,

488
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 2: of course.

489
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,719
Speaker 1: And didn't you ask about like Andrea or someone one

490
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: of the girls.

491
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 2: And he was like, oh V six yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

492
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 2: number five. He flicked his hands. Also, these two women

493
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 2: came in because it was a row of cages and

494
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 2: two cages down there was a woman who had been

495
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 2: in the intake center with me, and she was there

496
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 2: seeing her son because it's her birthday. So she's visiting

497
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 2: her son on death row, like, and he had murdered

498
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 2: his girlfriend because you know, to Lawrence, I was like,

499
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 2: who's that gay? And what did you do? And Lawrence

500
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 2: was like, oh, he murdered his girlfriend and her young

501
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 2: daughter and then set the house on fire. So there's

502
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 2: this little old lady and she's there and she's she

503
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 2: visiting her son on her birthday and buying stuff from

504
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 2: the vending machine on death row. Anyway, where is I

505
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 2: going with this? I love it?

506
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 1: The way his brain was quite different.

507
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and he just you know. Anyway, these two

508
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 2: beautiful women walked past lawyers or something, yeah, dressed up

509
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 2: but they had like heels in that and he heard

510
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 2: their high heels, and he looked and he watched them

511
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 2: go go past, and then he threw me a look

512
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,719
Speaker 2: like yeah, like look at those two hotties. And I

513
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 2: was like, really, yeah, yeah, we're talking about the women

514
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 2: that you sexually you know, abused, so like tortured and killed.

515
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: With the things in your toolbox. Yes, the name toolbox killer.

516
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, it was. It was the most horrific and

517
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 2: probably still is the most horrific crime that I had

518
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 2: ever heard of. And I that's the part of the

519
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 2: reason I wanted to speak to him, because I was like,

520
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 2: I have some questions about.

521
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 1: How I love the why I love the fear You're

522
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: It's like, I'll feel the fear and step into it anyway.

523
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 2: Oh you got to I sort of say, don't think

524
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 2: about it too much, you know, always some of these things.

525
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 2: I was saying that to Tim the other day because

526
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 2: I saw this. I saw this tree that someone had

527
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 2: thrown out. It had obviously been a potted tree because

528
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 2: it was all root bound in that and it was

529
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 2: just lying by the bins. And I said to Tim,

530
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 2: We're gonna save that tree. Let's get that tree, put

531
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 2: it in the car, take it home. Put it in

532
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 2: a big pot. We can save it. I don't know

533
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:28,959
Speaker 2: what kind of tree it is. It might be like

534
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 2: a magnolia or something. And Tim said, it's not going

535
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 2: to fit in the car. It's fifteen foot long. And

536
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 2: I said, don't think about it too much. Just just

537
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 2: just get it. Just pull over there, just get it.

538
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 2: Don't think about it.

539
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 1: That's actually a really That is actually a really good

540
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: like mantra for life if you think about it, because

541
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 1: we overthink and talk ourselvesselves out of like dreams and

542
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 1: like your You and I have talked about rejection a

543
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,640
Speaker 1: lot as well, because you had two hundred rejections.

544
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I stopped counting it two hundred because it

545
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 2: was getting depressing.

546
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: And then eventually if they'd call you you because they

547
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: get to know you with the manuscripts.

548
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 2: You cry, right, There is a lot of crying there was.

549
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 2: It's not so much anymore. I had to grow out

550
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 2: of that. Well. You also, I guled a bunch of

551
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 2: times how to stop crying once you've sort of started,

552
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 2: because you know, you feel it in your nose. How

553
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 2: do you? I don't know. If you ever find out,

554
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 2: please let me know frequent she knows frequent Criers club,

555
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: and then whatever you're arguing about. If you're in an

556
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 2: argument and you're crying, all of your credibility is gone. Ah,

557
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 2: this is true. Yeah. So I when I start, I

558
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 2: say to myself, don't get sad, get angry, and then

559
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 2: I and then I get angry and that kind of

560
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 2: turns it off. Live hacks. Yes, live hacks did not cry,

561
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 2: but yeah so, and I do that with the rescues

562
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 2: as well. I went on a rescue and it was

563
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 2: a sea eagle and these two oyster fishermen were like,

564
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 2: we're going to have to put you on a boat

565
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 2: and drive you to this island and where this sea

566
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 2: eagle is and it's like bigger than you, and like

567
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 2: how are you gonna what are you going to do?

568
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 2: And I'm there in my launa Jane with my big

569
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 2: tails and my five year old in toe and and

570
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 2: they were like, should we get a net? Should we

571
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 2: get gloves? And I was like no, no, I'm going

572
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 2: to catch it with this towel. And they were like

573
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 2: they're looking at each other like ah, and they said

574
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 2: what they said, what are you going to do if

575
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:23,479
Speaker 2: it does this? What are you going to do if

576
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 2: it does that, and I said, we'll cross that bridge

577
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 2: if you can feel. Oh, okay, let's just go. Let's

578
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 2: just go. What are we waiting for? Let's go. Oh

579
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 2: my goodness.

580
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: So this is why I wanted to get you back

581
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: on the pod. Anytime I'm missing Australia, I listen to

582
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: your episode one. You have one of my favorite accents,

583
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: like you have a very it can get very oft.

584
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: It's one of my favorites. And also you have this ability, yeah,

585
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: to feel the here and be like, all right, I'm

586
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: going to feel it. I'm just gonna go with it though,

587
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: and let's just see what happens as opposed to what

588
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: if A B and C happened. I like, and I

589
00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: think we get this decision paralysis.

590
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 2: You don't get that. No, no. And then also when

591
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 2: bad things happen, I find a way to make them amazing,

592
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 2: Like this woman was really awful to me once a reader.

593
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 2: You know, could people say to me, do you ever

594
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 2: get like mean readers? And what if you get a

595
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: one star review? And I say, sit down, children, let

596
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 2: me tell you a tale about this woman who said

597
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 2: this thing to me once. And it was an awful

598
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 2: thing that she said. But I have used it and

599
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 2: told it so many times, and it's so much fun.

600
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 2: I want to tell you. Yeah. So I had just

601
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 2: I had just done a talk with Lee Child. I

602
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 2: had hosted Lee Child, and Lee Child is like the

603
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 2: you know, the brad Pit of the of the book world.

604
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 2: Everyone's like, oh, he walks into a room and everybody

605
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,479
Speaker 2: just drops dead. So I got to interview him and

606
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 2: it was a big event. There was one hundred and

607
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 2: fifty people, and I was like, this is my friendly child,

608
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 2: you know. And we had this amazing energy on stage

609
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 2: and I felt like a million bucks. And then I

610
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 2: get down off the stage and this woman comes over

611
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 2: and she goes, oh my god, Candice, Oh, I actually

612
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 2: came here today to see you because I love your

613
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 2: book so much. With this kind of energy, yeah, so

614
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 2: I got sucked right in and I was like, oh,

615
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 2: thank you so much. That makes you so great. And

616
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 2: she goes, accept your last book though, Oh my god.

617
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 2: I hated it so much that I mean I crawled

618
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 2: through the first half of it. And then I gave

619
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 2: it to a friend and I said to my friend, look,

620
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,239
Speaker 2: you finish it and tell me what happens. Actually, you

621
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 2: know what, don't bother because I don't care, and so

622
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 2: I didn't know what to do. I was so shocked.

623
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 2: I just matched the energy. So I went, oh, my god,

624
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 2: thank you so much for your honesty. That is very

625
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 2: candid of you, and I will take that under advisement.

626
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 2: And then I just I just walked into the sea.

627
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 2: I just left there and walked into the ocean from

628
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 2: whence I came and I was never seen again. And

629
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 2: just but I have used that story and I've told

630
00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 2: that story so many times and people are love. And

631
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 2: I have also told it in front of new authors

632
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 2: who are like, what happens if I get a bad good? Yeah?

633
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 2: With you, and I say to them, one day you

634
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 2: will reach peak in salt. Yeah, and then after that

635
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 2: no one can say anything again like you're pervious. Yeah.

636
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 2: And with the animals, I have been bitten by things

637
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 2: like I've been bitten by a cockatoo. Yeah. And after

638
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 2: you've been bitten by a cockatoon nothing else. You can't

639
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 2: even feel like there's like there's a possum like munching

640
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 2: on my arm. I'm like, yeah, they do that. It's

641
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 2: just part of the you know, it's part of the charm.

642
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 2: And I'm just like just throw get the thing up.

643
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 2: You know, once you've been bitten that hard. So sometimes

644
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 2: in life when I get bitten, I go, oh, you know,

645
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 2: it is.

646
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: Such a good I've been called by another nutrition a

647
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: disgrace of a nutritionist when I was only twenty two. Yeah,

648
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,719
Speaker 1: because of the clothes I wore on television because I

649
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: was a bit quirky. Yeah, I wear Converse and like

650
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: city law per hair. And I said the same things.

651
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: I was like, thanks so much for your feedback.

652
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 2: Off past on.

653
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: But then I was working this mee but I locked

654
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: the door, ran out the back, bawled my eyes out.

655
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: And then and I was pretty young, and I had

656
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: a business part at the time. And he says, it's

657
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: all her stuff, it's not yours. Don't even worry. He goes,

658
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: do not take it on. You've got to like and

659
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: that moment of realizing when someone says something a bit

660
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: biting or mean, have been like, that's probably it's probably

661
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: that girl's own shit we had nothing to do with,

662
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: like obviously for whatever reason.

663
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's sometimes it's really obvious that day they just

664
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 2: don't like how happy you are up there. And yeah,

665
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 2: i'd say to Violet, when you go to the dog park,

666
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 2: you know. And in la have you ever been to

667
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 2: the Laurel Canyon dog Park? Yes? And you're walking around

668
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 2: there all the dogs and some of the dogs are

669
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 2: really unfriendly, yeah, and barky and growley and you try

670
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 2: to pat them and they're like not to day, you know,

671
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 2: And I say to where people are just like that,

672
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 2: Like some of them are barkie and growley And you

673
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 2: don't know why they're like that. Maybe they, you know,

674
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 2: have terrible owners, or maybe they're having a bad day

675
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 2: or scared or whatever. But don't try and make friends

676
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 2: with those ones. Go and find a friendly dog. There

677
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 2: are plenty of friendly ones. Don't spend all of your

678
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 2: time trying it. No, no, no, no, there's all a

679
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 2: big variety out there, and you've just walked in. They

680
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 2: don't like the smell of you. Okay, let's get on

681
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 2: to the next. Oh. You know, mate, I feel like

682
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 2: you're a life coach. I have to ask.

683
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: I could talk to you about I could talk to

684
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: you all day long, but I have to ask. So

685
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: when you write different characters and different point of views,

686
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: is the villain the most fun they can be?

687
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 2: They can be because I get to be my most

688
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: selfish and weird, and they're just Usually it's just a narcissist.

689
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 2: It's a person who has no kind of empathy. Sometimes

690
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 2: they're harder because real psychopaths have nothing going on underneath,

691
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 2: Like underneath the Lawrence, he was just empty inside. There

692
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 2: was just this need, the need for tension and love

693
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 2: and what can I get from you? What can I get?

694
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 2: And me, me, me me. It's very centric and it's

695
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 2: not very complicated, like I knew this psychopath. I had

696
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 2: this psychopath in my life. Everyone has one. Yeah, And

697
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 2: she was telling me about how she stole this umbrella

698
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 2: and she was like, look at this leopard print umbrella,

699
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 2: isn't it pretty? And I was like, where'd you get that?

700
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 2: She said, oh, I was just up the machas on

701
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 2: the corner and an old lady walked inside and she

702
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 2: put her umbrella down, so I took it. Isn't it pretty?

703
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 2: And I was like, but didn't you think about that

704
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,359
Speaker 2: old lady? And then she comes out and her umbrella's gone.

705
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 2: She's got to walk home in the rain, and then

706
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 2: she doesn't trust people anymore, and maybe she's sad and

707
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 2: maybe her kid gave her that umbrella and like all

708
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 2: these complicated thoughts that you have as a normal person.

709
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 2: She was just like, no, I saw it, and I

710
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 2: wanted it, you know. And so so I'm much more

711
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 2: interested now in villains who they're just a normal person,

712
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 2: but they somehow how end up killing someone or stealing something,

713
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 2: you know, or whatever it is, because then you can

714
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 2: still have all the complex emotions and the wants and

715
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 2: needs and desires and you know, and and all that

716
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 2: kind of thing. Even in this new novel, the one

717
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 2: that's based not true crime, even ends up being sort

718
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 2: of the villain, but he's very understandable and he's very relatable,

719
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 2: and you go, yeah, I could see myself doing that.

720
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:28,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you as the reader are kind of on

721
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: on there, like I feel like, having just finished high Wire,

722
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: like Bucks, like, yeah.

723
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 2: I would say he's our hero.

724
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,720
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but like he has to do some bad

725
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:42,959
Speaker 1: stuff along the way.

726
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, because to who doesn't want to do bad

727
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 2: stuffy yeah. Now and then though, and it.

728
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 1: Kind of leans he's like it's this all die, Yeah,

729
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,760
Speaker 1: like I gotta do I gotta do this bad stuff.

730
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 2: Like it's like I choose your own adventure and you

731
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 2: have that moment while I'm saying to the reader, so

732
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 2: would you, and they're like, yeah, if I yeah, yeah,

733
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 2: sure hopefully hopefully you keep saying if it's a hero,

734
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 2: you keep saying, yeah, I would, I would, I would,

735
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 2: And then you're on board with him the whole time.

736
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: You got me at the end with some little twisties,

737
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: though I was like, oh what just people don't think

738
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: I'll do it well because I thought maybe not to

739
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 1: give too much. But I was very much intertwined in

740
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 1: potential romance and stuff going on, you know.

741
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 2: I was like, no, yeah, you romance. Romance is always

742
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 2: the after thought for me. I'm always like, oh, yeah,

743
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 2: I gotta put some romans in there. But I had

744
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 2: two bomb vests in this novel, and I'm like, if

745
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 2: one of them doesn't go off, there's going to be

746
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 2: sheer disappoint get from what is the point of them

747
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 2: being there? So the promise, the promise you always when

748
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 2: you write a novel, you have the promise of the premise.

749
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 2: The premise is you know, that promise is I'm going

750
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 2: to blow something up, you know. And there's a couple

751
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 2: of good explosions in there.

752
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: Quite a few. I have to say. How I found

753
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: out about this book. Was the yoga studio where I

754
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: teach yoga in La is directly across the road from

755
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: Apple TV. Yeah, yeah, and this beautiful yogi came in

756
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 1: and we would always just like chit chat about yoga,

757
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: like you know, just we live not near the yoga street.

758
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 2: We both live near each other in Lace.

759
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 1: We'll talk about like our favorite like coffee shops on

760
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: the other side of town and stuff. And then he

761
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: goes to me one day you're Australian and I'm like yeah,

762
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: and he's like, this is a long shot, but you

763
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 1: don't know, Candace Fox to you what, I actually got

764
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: a podcaster into authors and Candas has been one of

765
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: my all time favorite interviews. And he's like, really, that's

766
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: so funny. And he's like, look, I'm really trying to

767
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: option a book right now. And I go what, yeah,

768
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, And he's like, can you put a good

769
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: word in for me? I was like, I'm like literally

770
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 1: teaching yin Yo candle Light yin yoga in la Yeah.

771
00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: And I was like sure, a DM, you're on insta yo.

772
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: This really strange thing has just happened, and you're like

773
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 1: is that true. You're like, I'm looking at the contract.

774
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 2: Now right now, Yeah, that week they came in hard.

775
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,879
Speaker 2: Apple came in hard. When we had another party who

776
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 2: were in it for that novel, and when we had

777
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 2: the Apple TV and Ridley Scott meeting and it was

778
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 2: Ridley Scott. Yes, we're talking Gladiator. I know, Aliens, I know.

779
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 2: I try to drop it as casually as I can,

780
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 2: because you don't want to be like, oh my god.

781
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 2: You know, you play it casual like, oh, that kind

782
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 2: of stuff happens to me all the time. But hang

783
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 2: on to me, isn't.

784
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 1: One of the reasons you started writing because you loved

785
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,879
Speaker 1: Martin Scorsese. So I feel like, yes, the fact that

786
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:45,240
Speaker 1: you're now you are.

787
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 2: A huge fangirl. I don't even remember that about myself.

788
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: Bola, knowing that Ridley Scott is like, yeah, hold, like,

789
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: can we just take a effing moment here.

790
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 2: Everybody take a break. Everybody get your coffees, go outside,

791
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,280
Speaker 2: touch the grass. It's also, yeah, not.

792
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: Two or three years ago, you invited me to the

793
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 1: premiere the screen for Tropo Trompo, which is Crimson Lake

794
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 1: in a TV series which I believe is doing its

795
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: third season now.

796
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,879
Speaker 2: It's the third. I'm the last person that they tell

797
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 2: anything to. So I've heard that. I mean there's scripts written.

798
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 2: I've heard that Amazon FREEV though where they were showing it,

799
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 2: has dropped all of their scripted stuff except down one

800
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,839
Speaker 2: though great. So I don't know. I don't know. It's

801
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 2: the TV and film stuff just goes on all the time.

802
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 2: I've got stuff with MGM, I've got stuff with Disney,

803
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 2: I've got stuff NBC. The announcement went out today, I

804
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 2: didn't know that announced what was going to happen. I

805
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 2: was like, oh, okay, there it is somebody with Fire?

806
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 2: All right? Yeah, Fire with Fire and smokes You're amazing.

807
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 2: Oh thank you, you're amazing.

808
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 1: Hang on, redly fucking Scott what how good.

809
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 2: Would it be to see it? And and you know

810
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: the one today for Fire with Fire they have an actor,

811
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,399
Speaker 2: they have a writer, they have a show runner, they

812
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 2: have a streamer, they have a network. So those are

813
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 2: all the things you have to get signed up to

814
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 2: be greenlit. But then in my life, because I'm all

815
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,800
Speaker 2: the way down the bottom of the chain, I'm going,

816
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,720
Speaker 2: is it happening? What have you heard? What I'm texting?

817
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 2: When Tropo was happening, I got Thomas Jane's number. He

818
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 2: gave me his number, and I'm like, what are you hearing?

819
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 2: And he's like, well, I'm hearing this. I'm hearing that.

820
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,919
Speaker 2: What are you hearing? And it's all lumbers. Nobody has

821
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 2: the complete picture. So he's saying, I think I have

822
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 2: a flight book for next week. Oh is that true?

823
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 2: And then I've got to tell you my story about

824
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 2: about going to the set to do my cameo. I

825
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 2: went to the set and there's two hundred people there.

826
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 2: Every time they film something, there's like fifty people on

827
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 2: the screen, one hundred and fifty like in the camera

828
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,959
Speaker 2: view and there's one hundred and fifty people just stand

829
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 2: and around. I'm like, what does that guy do? What

830
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 2: is he doing? What is that guy do? And everyone

831
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 2: does something different. So there's two hundred people there. And

832
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 2: TJ was out there and he had this scene where

833
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 2: someone's coming in with an axe and he has to

834
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 2: grab the axe and go, no, Max, don't do it,

835
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 2: don't do it, Max, like that, Yeah, that's how he talks,

836
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 2: and that's my time's Jane depression. And anyway, he has

837
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:25,240
Speaker 2: to wrestle a axe off. I'm standing there and I'm like, wow,

838
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,760
Speaker 2: this is happening. I'm watching my show and that's my character.

839
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 2: He's dressed as my character. Wow, this is amazing. Wow. Anyway,

840
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 2: they do action and he goes, no, no, Max, don't

841
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 2: do it, and then cut and then he turns around

842
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 2: to me and he goes, what do you think? And

843
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 2: I went, oh, well, I thought it was really good.

844
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 2: It looked really real, you know. And then anyway, so

845
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 2: the director that he was actually looking at, who was

846
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 2: standing right behind me, leans out with his headset on

847
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 2: and he goes, oh, I also thought it was good,

848
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 2: and I was like, no, oh my god, I just

849
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 2: and everyone was like two hundred people were like, but wait,

850
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 2: wait that the best thing is that they ran it again.

851
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 2: And then you know, Max, Max no, cut and TJ

852
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 2: turns around and he goes, Candace, I gotta know what

853
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 2: did you think? I was like, Ah, your last tape

854
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 2: was better.

855
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: Do you ever think about or want to do screenwriting,

856
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 1: like for any of your adaptations.

857
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 2: When Violet was a baby, a newborn baby, I was

858
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 2: breastfeeding her at night and I'm up all night nothing

859
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 2: to do. And you know, when you're breastfeeding a baby,

860
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 2: you're staring at them in wonderment oh, the universe and

861
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 2: my child for about thirty seconds, and then you get

862
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:48,720
Speaker 2: your phone out and you go so on my phone,

863
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 2: I wrote a screenplay. I downloaded the final draft ap

864
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 2: and I wrote it.

865
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: And I wrote a horror movie amazing Yes, and everyone

866
00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 1: hated it. I said it to a my agent and

867
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 1: my TV film agent at that time, and they were like, wow,

868
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 1: this sucks, and I was.

869
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 2: Like, Okay, no screen adding for me. I'll stick to

870
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 2: my day job. Oh wow, the novels. Yeah. But so

871
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 2: I have done screenwriting, and it's just a medium. I

872
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 2: mean I enjoyed it in the way that you can

873
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 2: kind of go a warehouse and then that's it. You've

874
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 2: got the whole warehouse, whereas with a novel, you have

875
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 2: to go the warehouse squatted in the middle, like you know,

876
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 2: all the animal shedding its skin. They approached from the

877
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 2: south a gentle breeze, and you're like.

878
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: I've got a new one for you, friend, bloody voice

879
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 1: acting on these persons. I literally could talk to you

880
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: until the cows come home, all the.

881
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 2: Same to you.

882
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: I have to ask the final question. And I know,

883
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: like people with dreams listen to this pod, and I

884
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: know you like run courses and mentor people and all

885
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 1: that kind of thing as well, Like what if someone's

886
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 1: got a dream, They're like, I've got this side, I

887
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: want to write a book.

888
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 2: What advice do you have? Do not listen to anyone

889
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,359
Speaker 2: who says that you can't do it, or what if this?

890
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 2: What if this happens, or what if that happens to it,

891
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,359
Speaker 2: or like yeah, any of that negative talk. People say, oh,

892
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 2: I could never do that because I love my child

893
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 2: too much and I want to spend time with her instead,

894
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 2: and then they look at you like you're being selfish

895
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 2: or whatever it is. Don't listen to any negativity. Only

896
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 2: listen to positivity, and then be wary of like firing

897
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 2: out of the cannon with a dream, because then you'll

898
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:38,840
Speaker 2: hit the ground. Like you're like, I'm going to do

899
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 2: this for six hours a day, five days a week.

900
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 2: You know, it's better to be consistent longer. Do Yeah,

901
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 2: do one thing every single day that gets you further

902
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 2: towards your dream. Yeah. Yeah. Study if it's a novel

903
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,879
Speaker 2: in particular, study study, study. So I study because people

904
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 2: say to me all the time, oh, I'm on the

905
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:01,800
Speaker 2: seventh draft of my ninth novel, and I've been rejected

906
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 2: eight thousand times and I go, oh, okay, So like,

907
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 2: have you ever taken a class in creative writing? They're like,

908
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 2: oh no, no, I've read books so I can write.

909
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 2: I mean I've read them. That's all you need to do, right,

910
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 2: And I'm like, you're like, I taught myself the violin

911
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 2: and I want to be a concerto violinist. I've never

912
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 2: taken a class and everyone hates how my violin music sounds.

913
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 2: It's like, go and take just take one class.

914
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: That's what I say about actors in acting school in LA,

915
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 1: They're like, the first thing that you can do is

916
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: just get into a class, yes, because it's.

917
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 2: Not just like oh well this is loll acting right now.

918
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: It's like you actually have to get your chops up. Yes,

919
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:42,240
Speaker 1: you have to learn the skill.

920
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

921
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: It's exact same with I imagine with book. And we

922
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,720
Speaker 1: have great schools here in Australia, like great courses.

923
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,240
Speaker 2: We're so spoiled and you will start getting cut down

924
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,879
Speaker 2: by people because I think with writers, people get you know,

925
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 2: their mom to read it, and they get their beta

926
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 2: readers who are other authors, you know, all their friends,

927
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 2: and they'll say lovely things. There's nothing like having a

928
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 2: teacher give you a pass and litter that piece of

929
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:13,720
Speaker 2: paper with red crosses, and like, I had a lecture

930
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 2: and I used to sit with him and he just

931
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 2: used to slash our whole pages and be like this sucks.

932
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 2: This sucks. You know. So when you finally do make

933
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 2: it and already and yeah, and someone says to you

934
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 2: the entire front half of this novel has to be rewritten,

935
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 2: you go, oh, okay.

936
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 1: I studied kids fiction, creative kids fiction, running and I

937
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: wrote this whole story. Someone says, with aucle whales around

938
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: and they're like, kill it now, it's an apex predator.

939
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 1: You're not going to be able to get around that.

940
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 1: Kids are going to get scared, and they're like, you've

941
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: talked about death in the first page. I was like,

942
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: kids are going to freak out.

943
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, so I've done.

944
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: This completely like yes, completely wrong, la la, But just throw.

945
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 2: Away any embarrassment of having done it completely wrong, because

946
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 2: you go, oh, well, I'm a human being. There you go.

947
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 2: People get things wrong sometimes.

948
00:46:58,000 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 1: Everyone says your first draft is always going to be

949
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:01,839
Speaker 1: a bit of a mess. Anyway, your first crack at

950
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: something it's gonna be a bit of a mess, whether

951
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,919
Speaker 1: it's anything creative, and so I think I love your

952
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: resilience and I love your Oh yeah, this is scary.

953
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna do it anyway. I'll think about it later.

954
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:17,720
Speaker 1: I think that is like if we can live like that? Yes, imagine,

955
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: yeah right, yeah for sure, Candice Fox, you flip an unreal.

956
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: I can't wait to have you on the pot again.

957
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 1: I cannot wait to see high way I come to life.

958
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 2: Thank Holy Mac, Thank you for reading. Thank you for

959
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 2: having me. I can't wait. I don't want to leave.

960
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:32,879
Speaker 2: Can I just stay?

961
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,439
Speaker 1: We're gonna do a hot seat right now, my friend.

962
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. All Right, that's a wrap on

963
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: another episode of Fearlessly Failing. As always, thank you to

964
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 1: our guests, and let's continue the conversation on Instagram. I'm

965
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 1: at Yamo Lullaberry.

966
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 2: This potty my word.

967
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 1: For podcast is available on all streaming platforms.

968
00:47:59,239 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 2: I'd love it.

969
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: You could subscribe, rape and comment, and of course spread

970
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:04,359
Speaker 1: the love.