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Speaker 1: Well, as we know, the Melbourne hotspot declaration will be

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Speaker 1: removed today and the Northern Territory Police Association has called

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Speaker 1: for police to be removed from some remote border checkpoints

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Speaker 1: in an effort to gain respite. And you'll leave now.

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Speaker 1: Joining me on the line is the president of the

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Speaker 1: Police Association, Paul McHugh. Good morning, Good morning, Katie, Paul,

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Speaker 1: talk us through. I mean, we know that those borders

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Speaker 1: are opening today and there are no more hotspots. Should

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Speaker 1: police be pulled from some of those those border locations?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously, you know it's had a huge impact on policing,

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Speaker 2: in the capability to starf front line being out on

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Speaker 2: the borders for such a long period of time, and

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Speaker 2: we've got many of those really remote locations, for example

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Speaker 2: up along the Wa border. You know. Now we all

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Speaker 2: know we've questioned for some time the need to be

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Speaker 2: on those sorts of locations given the hard border stance

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Speaker 2: at w way have taken for that period of time.

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Speaker 2: So with hotspot declarations being lifted today, you know, it's

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Speaker 2: certainly a good opportunity perhaps to know urgently review the

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Speaker 2: need to be on some of those really remote areas

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Speaker 2: which are taking up critical resourcing capability which could be

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Speaker 2: better used in town.

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Speaker 1: Now, which borders or which locations are we talking about, Paul.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's quite a few smaller ones. Obviously we know

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Speaker 2: the major arterial roads into the territory and you know

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Speaker 2: we're not suggesting perhaps of this day's day be lifted,

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Speaker 2: and we know the reasons behind that. But there are

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Speaker 2: many such as on the Tannami, perhaps out on the

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Speaker 2: Plenty Highway, the Mulga Park Road down there, Colera and

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Speaker 2: Curtain Springs. You know, perhaps those sorts of locations which

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Speaker 2: are you know, feedback we receive is certainly often only

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Speaker 2: seeing four or five cars a day or mine trucks

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Speaker 2: over the TANNAMAI So the real need, you've got to question,

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Speaker 2: the need to keep you fully swarm police officers out

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Speaker 2: those locations when we're so critically short in town areas

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Speaker 2: such as Alice Springs and Darwin.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll talk more about how it is impacting

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Speaker 1: us in town in a moment, But how many police

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Speaker 1: officers are on some of those borders, where as you've said,

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Speaker 1: you know, anecdotally sometimes only five people going through those

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Speaker 1: checkpoints in a day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, often there there's at least two police officers

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Speaker 2: on those locations on twelve hour shifts. So you've got

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Speaker 2: you know, up to four police officers on every one

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Speaker 2: of those locations rotating through, you know, which cannot be

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Speaker 2: deployed in any other location for quite a period of time,

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Speaker 2: sometimes going for four or five days or a week

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Speaker 2: or even longer. And you know, when you're talking you know,

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Speaker 2: two or three or four of those border locations, there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of police that are not available to go elsewhere.

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Speaker 1: Paul, how are police feeling, firstly on those borders at

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Speaker 1: the moment.

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Speaker 2: Well, obviously, you know, the weather's hit extreme now, hasn't it.

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Speaker 2: You know, we're talking, you know, forty degrees in some

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Speaker 2: of these locations. We've got the wet season upon us.

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Speaker 2: Now we've been frustrated with the delays from government and

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Speaker 2: getting you know, some decent shade structures in some of

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Speaker 2: those locations, just basic facilities for our members to be

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Speaker 2: comfortable in. So they've been frustrated, and I think they're

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Speaker 2: also frustrated now with the somewhat ad hoc approach at

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Speaker 2: times to getting rostered in those locations. And you know,

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Speaker 2: we want to make sure if the government's wanting police

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Speaker 2: to stay out and these locations for an extended period.

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Speaker 2: Let's get a decent plan in place to make sure members'

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Speaker 2: lives aren't there and impacted adversely as they have been

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Speaker 2: in recent times.

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Speaker 1: Now, you mentioned before the impact that this is having

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Speaker 1: on the broader community when it comes to fighting crime.

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Speaker 1: You specifically pointed out Alice Springs is one of those

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Speaker 1: locations where it's having an impact. Why and how is

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Speaker 1: it having an impact on the broader community having those

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Speaker 1: offices on borders.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think you know what the community I'm sure

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Speaker 2: expect is is if they really need police, and you know,

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Speaker 2: they call up for police and an urgent circumstance so

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Speaker 2: they know police are around the corner. And you know

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Speaker 2: those police that are out there at the moment doing

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Speaker 2: that role in the major centers of Alice, Darwin, Catherine Tenant, etc.

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Speaker 2: You know, they're doing an unbelievable job in actually getting

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Speaker 2: to those jobs as quickly as they can with the

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Speaker 2: limited resources they've got. And it is not uncommon and

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Speaker 2: we know this for a fact. There are several overtime

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Speaker 2: techs that go out every single day just to simply

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Speaker 2: fill a basic roster and there are times, and we've

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Speaker 2: spoken about this before, one or two vans per shift

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Speaker 2: on a twelve hour shift is simply not enough, and

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Speaker 2: of course that heightens the risk, so not only those officers,

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Speaker 2: but of course to the community as well, and we

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Speaker 2: want to make sure we've got the police in the

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Speaker 2: right spots and now the time to have a look

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Speaker 2: at that.

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Speaker 1: So in some instances, as you've just said, there can

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Speaker 1: be two vans on on per shift, but if one

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Speaker 1: of those vans gets called out to an incident, then realistically,

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Speaker 1: i mean, are we talking how many police are we

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Speaker 1: talking about sort of being able to respond to other

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Speaker 1: things that could arise.

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Speaker 2: Well, obviously you've got your general duties policing, and that's

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Speaker 2: what we're talking about when we talk about our general

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Speaker 2: response capability on the front line. But there are also

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Speaker 2: generally other police vehicles driving around. It might be crime members,

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Speaker 2: it might be other sections of the police force, but

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Speaker 2: of course they're not generally tasked to those immediate requests

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Speaker 2: for the public to attend. So in the emergency situations,

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Speaker 2: of course they would be. But what we don't want

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Speaker 2: to see is those general duties officers heavily impacted with

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Speaker 2: the burden of being the only van or one of

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Speaker 2: only two vans on the road for a twelve hour shift,

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Speaker 2: and often at times an arrest can keep a vent

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Speaker 2: off the road for three or four or five hours,

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Speaker 2: depending on the complexity involved. You know, that's a real

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Speaker 2: concern from our point of view in terms of their

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Speaker 2: health and safety.

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Speaker 1: So, Paul, from your perspective, should we really immediately be

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Speaker 1: pulling our police officers from some of those border control

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Speaker 1: areas that are only having a few vehicles go through

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Speaker 1: those spots each day.

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Speaker 2: Look, I've no doubt that should be urgently looked at,

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Speaker 2: And I mean we don't want to. I'm not trying

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Speaker 2: to diminish the importance of making sure we keep this

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Speaker 2: deadly virus out of our community up here. But there

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Speaker 2: is technology we can use automated number plate recognition software

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Speaker 2: which could be used in some of those locations to

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Speaker 2: monitor those vehicles coming across the border. But you know,

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Speaker 2: right now, I see the cases that are brought into

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Speaker 2: the territory right now, generally from the flights coming from

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Speaker 2: overseas being repatriated in Howard Springs facility rather than those

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Speaker 2: really really remote border locations. And I think you've got

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Speaker 2: to have a look at that and say is that

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Speaker 2: the best use of our resource.

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Speaker 1: Well, just finally, one of the things that's been raised

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Speaker 1: with us on a couple of occasions over the last

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks is whether police do exit interviews when

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Speaker 1: they finish up with the force. Is that something that

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Speaker 1: you understand does or doesn't happen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, I think there's a I guess a request

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Speaker 2: put in. Generally, if somebody is resigning, there's often a

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Speaker 2: request through their officer in charge or their immediate supervisor

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Speaker 2: to to have a sit down discussion. But I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure it's a it's certainly not compulsory, and it's certainly

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Speaker 2: up to the individual as to whether they want to

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Speaker 2: disclose their reasons for leaving. But it's certainly something. You know,

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Speaker 2: we're generally notified when that's the case, and we're making

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Speaker 2: our own inquiries as to why that's the case. And obviously,

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Speaker 2: we with the high attrition rate at the moment, we

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Speaker 2: really need to know the reasons behind that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, do you reckon that there should be a more

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Speaker 1: formal process in terms of police officers actually doing a

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Speaker 1: formal exit interview.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we certainly would like to see that. Of course,

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Speaker 2: it's really up to the individual and you can't force

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Speaker 2: somebody to always disclose those reasons. But I think it's

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Speaker 2: really important to know the genuine reasons why somebody is

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Speaker 2: leaving or why they're applying to leave, and the reasons

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Speaker 2: behind that and that they're they're the key points from

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Speaker 2: our perspective and something we're certainly following up well.

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Speaker 1: Police Association President Paul McHugh. We always appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having a chat with me this morning.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Katie, thank you. You are listening to Mix one

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Speaker 1: oh four point nine's three p sixty