1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Having a great Monday afternoon. Woodrow, there's this. I mean, 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: I shouldn't be saying Netflix are about to get Channel 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,639 Speaker 1: nine's leading journalist on. But Netflix have released this big 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: show Apple side of innegat which all the. 5 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 2: Kids are by Channel nines interviews, very good. 6 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 3: It's all about Belle Gibson. 7 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: So it's a dramatization about how she basically convinced the 8 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: world that she had multiple cancers, including brain cancer, and 9 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: then use holistic alternative medicines and exercise to heal herself. 10 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 2: And she brought out an app. She was selling, an 11 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 2: app called Whole Pantry. These are the foods I ate 12 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 2: to get over brain cancer. 13 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: So she makes a lot of money. She claims to 14 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: have donated a whole bunch of money. Turns out she 15 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,279 Speaker 1: didn't really donate much money. But the really interesting thing 16 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: about this, and as you said before, is that she 17 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: sits down just afterwards with Tara Brown, who's you know, 18 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: sixty minutes leading person, and Tara absolutely bull dozes that 19 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: and just picks the eyes out of her. And it's 20 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: quite fascinating to hear some of the audio. So we're 21 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: going to talk to Tara in two seconds, but just 22 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: to give you a little bit of of a sense 23 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: if you missed the interview, if you haven't heard any 24 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: of it, it is once again and deservedly going absolutely 25 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: boned online. Here's just a little bit of Tara interviewing 26 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: Belle about the claims that she made about her cancer. 27 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 4: You go on Instagram in twenty thirteen. I have been 28 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 4: healing a severe and malignant brain cancer for the past 29 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 4: four years with natural medicine, Gerson therapy in foods. It's 30 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 4: working for me. 31 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 5: It is. 32 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 4: And if any you didn't have brain cancer, No I didn't. 33 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 3: Oh my god. Tara Brown joins us. Now welcome Tara. 34 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 6: Thank you very much. 35 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 4: Tara. 36 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 2: My first question is how do you go about interviewing 37 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 2: someone that you know is consistently lying to your face. 38 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,279 Speaker 6: Well, I went into the interview believing that she wanted 39 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 6: to tell the truth and explain why she had been 40 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 6: loose with the truth which had sort of been exposed 41 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 6: by some breachjournalism at the age and through a whistleblower friend. 42 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 6: And she's done from Women's Weekly, and I thought she 43 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 6: was coming on to sort of stay sorry, to explain 44 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 6: what had happened. It was a misunderstanding, and so forth, 45 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 6: but it just became a very slippery slide into more 46 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 6: and more nonsense. To be honest, like just in Comport, 47 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 6: just some of the stuff that Belle was saying just 48 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,359 Speaker 6: didn't kind of make sense and was clearly continued fantasy 49 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 6: in some ways, I guess to sidestep her accountability, her 50 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 6: responsibility for misleading really desperate people. 51 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, and kind of funny at the start, Like you know, 52 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: when I ask my two year old if she's stolen 53 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: something or like eating something and she's got chocolate all 54 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: over her face and she's cool and she says no, 55 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: Like initially it's funny, but then you're like, we'll come on, 56 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: Like just for the sake of our relationship, we need 57 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: some sort of trust here, because I can't keep conversing 58 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 1: to if you're going to keep lying to me that 59 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: the level of her deception is almost to the point 60 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 1: where she can't even tell herself when she's telling the 61 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: truth anymore. 62 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 3: I've got another bit of audio from the interview. Have listened. 63 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 4: How old are you? 64 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 5: I've always been raised as being currently a twenty six 65 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 5: year old? 66 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 4: How old are you? 67 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 5: Well? I live knowing as I've always known that I 68 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 5: would be twenty six. 69 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 4: Okay, Bill, I've a really really simple question, how old 70 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 4: are you? 71 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 5: I believe that I'm twenty six. I have two birth certificates, 72 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 5: and I've had my name change four times. 73 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, did you ever find out how old? 74 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 4: She used? 75 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 3: Tara? 76 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 6: No, And you know, by that stage, I think I 77 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 6: was long past care. 78 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 3: She sounds like a sixteen year old out the front 79 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 3: of a nightclub. 80 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 6: I know. I look, I'm not trying to mock her, 81 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 6: but I mean, I don't know. What are you meant 82 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 6: to do when you get that as an answer. She 83 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 6: had asked in the lead up to that question repeatedly 84 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 6: for medical her medical records, and because her big play 85 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 6: was that she had tried conventional medicine and had worked 86 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 6: for her so she found another way. And then after 87 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 6: the interview, she actually did supply some medical records from 88 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 6: the Alphorred which made it very clear that she knew 89 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 6: she did not have cancer or at that time she'd 90 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 6: gone there looking for multiple She thought she'd had multiple sclerosis, 91 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 6: which was something no multiple sclosis, which was something that 92 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 6: her mother in facts of it. When she went to 93 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 6: the doctor for tests, she was cleared of that. And 94 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 6: when I got hold of those medical records. I then 95 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 6: rang medical professionals to say, if if you're testing somebody 96 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 6: for multiple sclerosis and they have brain cancer or brain tumor, 97 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 6: will that come up in the scans that you've done. 98 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 6: And they said absolutely, And she did not have any 99 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 6: brain cancers according to those scans. She was given a 100 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 6: clean bill of health in a face to face meeting 101 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 6: with a doctor and it was in black and white. 102 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 6: And she knew that when she launched the app, and 103 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 6: she knew that when she launched the Whole Pantry cookbook, 104 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 6: and she knew that when she sat down for that interview. 105 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 6: And yet she maintained that she feared she'd had cancer 106 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 6: because that's what she'd been told. 107 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, wild I just can't understand why she did this, 108 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 2: Like this was always going to come out as well. 109 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 2: You've sat there with her, You've had chats with the 110 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 2: you know what. I'm sure the cameras aren't rolling, the 111 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 2: mics aren't running. Do you have a view on why 112 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: she's done this? 113 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 6: No, I don't, And I think it's too easy to 114 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 6: say she was young. However old she was at the time. 115 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 6: That's you know, because the consequences of what she was 116 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 6: broking were so dire for people who believed the image 117 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 6: that she was selling, and she was the embodiment of health, 118 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 6: and she was playing in a world where there are 119 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 6: very desperate people seeking answers, and for some people, the 120 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 6: potential for any person to leave the path of conventional 121 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 6: medicine for what Bell was selling could have been the 122 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 6: difference between life and deeds. 123 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 3: That is very, very scary thing playing for ship stations, 124 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 3: isn't she? Do you know where she's at now? 125 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: Because I'm sure there are justifiably a whole lot of 126 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: people who have either paid for a app or followed 127 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: her methods and made donations. As you pointed out before, 128 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: you know, even just so livid about the fact that 129 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 1: you know, maybe they have actually had someone who has 130 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: you know, that they've loved to has died from cancer, 131 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: who you know that was terrifying to them. And here 132 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: she is talking about going for a jog and getting 133 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: rid of it. 134 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 3: What are you Where is she now? 135 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 1: Because for me that I'm sure she's in hiding in 136 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: some sort well. 137 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 6: I don't know whether it's officially in hiding. I think 138 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 6: the general consensus is she's keeping a very low profile 139 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 6: at the moment, but it's still in Melbourne somewhere. But 140 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 6: in terms of what she's doing for a job, well, 141 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 6: I have no idea. There was a fairly well publicized 142 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 6: turn where she had joined an Ethiopian community for some time, 143 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 6: and then that somehow went away. I think the community 144 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 6: once they've discovered who it was today. 145 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 3: She changed her name a few times as well. Is 146 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 3: that right? 147 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 6: When she was trying to explain why she didn't know 148 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 6: how old she was, she claimed that she'd had four 149 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 6: different identities and two birth certificates, and so I'm not 150 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 6: sure she might be. 151 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 2: Lying, Like you can't everything, even though the lies about lies, 152 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 2: you can't believe because that might be a lie. 153 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm sure sure. 154 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 6: It is very twisted and confusing and kind of sad 155 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 6: in a way. During the interview, at one point she 156 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 6: got very upset when we're talking about her brother and 157 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 6: her family, and she'd left the room, and then she 158 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 6: came back and did the interview again. At one point 159 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 6: we had a break where we were just beseeching her 160 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 6: to supply us with her medical records, you know, telling, 161 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 6: you know, really advising her. I'm happy for all my 162 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 6: questions to be wrong. If you can prove your position, 163 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 6: and medical records will do that. So that was sort 164 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 6: of a bit of the advice, really desperate advice to 165 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 6: they just show us and all this questioning goes away, 166 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 6: And ultimately she did, but it was the smoking gun 167 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 6: and showed that she in fact knew she had been 168 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 6: while she was claiming to be terminally ill, she had 169 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 6: a clean bill of health. 170 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 3: So it's it's like, it's just. 171 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: One of the producers has just written because you just 172 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: mentioned her brother, Tara, that apparently Belle's brother. 173 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 3: She claims to be autistic, but he isn't. 174 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 6: Well, he says he's not. He's on our special Tonight, 175 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 6: Dangerous Lives. He's he's included in that, and you know, 176 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 6: very it's clearly very sad because there's a lot of 177 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 6: dysfunction within that family and I think mourns for the 178 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 6: sister that he feels he lost. But yeah, she got 179 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 6: upset at that time is the interview, because she claimed 180 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 6: that about him. They didn't sit down expecting the responses 181 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,319 Speaker 6: I got from Bell. It was like, oh, okay, really, 182 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 6: we don't know how old we are. 183 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 3: There was just we don't know how we are. 184 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:34,719 Speaker 6: It kind of unraveled unexpectedly for me. 185 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 1: If you want to watch that, The Unmasking of Belle 186 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: Gibson Dangerous Lies airs tonight nine to ten on Channel nine. 187 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: You can catch up, of course on nine now if 188 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: you'd have a chance to watch it tonight, you can 189 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: see really behind the scenes of just what happened with 190 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: this interview. That is, there's again resurfaced in the wake 191 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: of this Netflix show that's put even more heat on 192 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: Belle Gibson. But yeah, Tara Brown was really the one 193 00:09:58,120 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: who broke the story for Channel nine. 194 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 3: It sounds wild. 195 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: Tara, thanks so much for giving some insight and well 196 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: as much insight as we can get into something that 197 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: we will just never understand. 198 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 6: Uh, be happy to be confounded, I think, yeah. 199 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, great Tara around here 200 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: on willing Wody. 201 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 3: Thanks Tara, thank you so much. 202 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 6: Appreciate your time.